BornJetsFan1983 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I read somewhere online about the Jets picking some loudmouth that would replace Bart Scott, he had the he could back it up sort of description...I cant find it now and really wanted to check out who this kid was cause i never heard of him before...I think it said he was an Arizona boy... Anyway I figured someone on here would know since you all have crazy football knowledge and maybe one of you a$$ holes read the same thing I did.. Thanks/I hate you (thats right I insulted and complimented you all and then thanked and unthanked you all..whoever gets me the answer will win aa huge amount of money that I made myself out of bandaids...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 1. You're a dork. 2. The guy you're looking for is Vontaze Burfict, Arizona State. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7achvXsy3Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Ok, I'll bet anybody here $1000 they don't draft an ILB in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJ667 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Vontaze Burfict would be a disaster as a first round pick. Now as a second round pick, very shrewd. Besides the pick is gonna be Upshaw or Barron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJ667 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 1. You're a dork. 2. The guy you're looking for is Vontaze Burfict, Arizona State. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7achvXsy3Q Its funny the first highlight they have on there, he completely misses the play. Then the washington game. He blows up the guard but has no impact. Don't get me wrong the guy might be the most talented LB I've seen in ten years, but his execution, discipline and consistency really need a lot of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTJ06 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Its funny the first highlight they have on there, he completely misses the play. Then the washington game. He blows up the guard but has no impact. Don't get me wrong the guy might be the most talented LB I've seen in ten years, but his execution, discipline and consistency really need a lot of work. alot of similar comments from draft analyst recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The guy is an incredible talent, that apparently fell off once his buddy (I forget his name) stopped playing and failed to "line him up appropriately". I would still like to see him on our roster, just not at 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJ667 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 He's a guy that you could get three or four good years from as he chases a big contract. The guy doesn't seem to like football, he probably just likes the benefits and the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 1. You're a dork. 2. The guy you're looking for is Vontaze Burfict, Arizona State. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7achvXsy3Q no your a dork, but thanks for finding this for me...I agree with you BroadwayJ667, I like to see a 2nd rounder get a guy like this... All I really Hope is we get starters.. three would be great but I be happy with two..hell I be happy with three backups that could be counted on to play well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 IF the Jets decide to draft Scotts replacement in the 1st round, it should be Hightower from Alabama. He will end up being a top 5 player if you re due the draft 3 years later, and will start day one for whatever team drafts him (probably the Steelers) if they need him to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrellegivesmeaboner#24 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I want Vontaze Burfict. We can draft him this year, keep Bart Scott since his money is guaranteed anyway, have him replace Thomas, stop the run next year like a boss...This is a position we are going to need to address in the next year or two, Burfict is a terrific talent who will likely fall to us. If we aren't going Mark Barron, this is the guy I want. I do not believe that this guy is really going to fall to the second round. Let's not be greedy, this is an impact player on defense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Former Arizona state QB Danny White on Burfict: "I agree 100 percent," White said. "He was also the reason Dennis Erickson got fired. When your best football player is a guy like that, he's what I call a coach killer. He's such a great athlete, you have to have him on the field. But by the same token, the negatives outweigh the positives with him. As great a player as he is, you can' t have that. And then what happens, when if you don't take extreme measures with it, then it becomes a cancer on the team. And I started seeing other guys on the defense starting to act like that and I think it became infectious. No matter how good a player is, when he's got that kind of attitude on the field, when he hurts you like Vontaze hurt the team, you got to get rid of him. As hard as that is, and it's a hard thing to do, especially when he's your best player, you just can't have it or it does become a cancer, and I think he did." Seems like a great player, but after all the controversy about locker room chemistry and relationships this season, I don't see Rex, Tanny or Woody touching this kid with a 1st round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Former Arizona state QB Danny White on Burfict: "I agree 100 percent," White said. "He was also the reason Dennis Erickson got fired. When your best football player is a guy like that, he's what I call a coach killer. He's such a great athlete, you have to have him on the field. But by the same token, the negatives outweigh the positives with him. As great a player as he is, you can' t have that. And then what happens, when if you don't take extreme measures with it, then it becomes a cancer on the team. And I started seeing other guys on the defense starting to act like that and I think it became infectious. No matter how good a player is, when he's got that kind of attitude on the field, when he hurts you like Vontaze hurt the team, you got to get rid of him. As hard as that is, and it's a hard thing to do, especially when he's your best player, you just can't have it or it does become a cancer, and I think he did." Seems like a great player, but after all the controversy about locker room chemistry and relationships this season, I don't see Rex, Tanny or Woody touching this kid with a 1st round pick. Agree with your analysis on Burfict...sometimes you just got to cut a man loose...still think Rex is arrogant enough to draft him (not in the first) and attempt to rehabilitate...hopefully after last season they say pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbone Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I could definitely see Rex drooling over him if he makes it to the second round. He can't be any worse than Ducasse. I just fear he could be Holmes' counterpart on the defense, in terms of rocking the boat. That is why guys like Ray Lewis are so important to have in a locker room. Lewis rules the Ravens locker room like a true leader, no one questions him and no one even thinks about challenging him. If you step out of line, you have to answer to Ray, he holds everyone accountable. If the Jets had a guy like that on their team, I would roll the dice on him after the 1st round, but saldy we do not have the proper leadership to bottleup a nut case like Vontaze. Maybe he can join Holmes and Sanchez in their couples therapy sessions. haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Luke Kuechley is exactly what this team needs. A classy great player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 No one threatens Lewis because he might kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sg3 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 burfict would be far from perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 the draft is day 1 first round, day 2 second and third round, day 3 rounds 4, 5, 6, 7 Burfict still on the board when Day 3 starts would not be surprising at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 the draft is day 1 first round, day 2 second and third round, day 3 rounds 4, 5, 6, 7 Burfict still on the board when Day 3 starts would not be surprising at all. At some point being uncoachable catches up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrellegivesmeaboner#24 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 the draft is day 1 first round, day 2 second and third round, day 3 rounds 4, 5, 6, 7 Burfict still on the board when Day 3 starts would not be surprising at all. I get that this is your opinion, but there is no evidence at all that he will fall that far. He is a first round graded player by basically every single draftnik on the internet...He has some character concerns, but it is still much more likely that he ends up blowing up the combine and going in the top 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Vontaze Burfict draws criticism by Aaron Wilson of Scout.com, February 16, 2012 at 4:59 am ET Vontaze Burfict Profile Arizona State junior middle linebacker Vontaze Burfict grew up idolizing Baltimore Ravens All-Pro middle linebacker Ray Lewis, trying to embody Lewis' intimidating style. "You've got to compare yourself to the greatest," Burfict once said. "I compare myself to him." However, Burfict's grand ambitions of mirroring the game of the two-time NFL Defensive Player of the Year appear to be unrealistic. A consensus All-American as a sophomore, Burfict wasn't even an all-conference selection last season. Often losing his temper and piling up penalties, Burfict has displayed serious flaws in his game and attitude. Now, he's not regarded as a first-round draft target for NFL teams. "He gets enveloped by bigger bodies and he runs around blocks. For a big, strong guy, he’s nowhere near as strong at the point of attack as I thought he’d be. I don’t see first round at all.” Burfict is prone to facemask penalties, head-butts and cheap shots. He was benched two seasons ago due to an incredibly high amount of personal foul penalties. Arizona State coach Dennis Erickson knows Lewis from his days at the University of Miami and once arranged for Burfict to speak with the NFL star. "They're both fired-up guys," Erickson said before last season. "Ray is obviously very mature at this point in his life. They've talked. I wanted Vontaze to relate to what those great players were all about. That's his idol, man. That's his man. "There aren't too many better. He's a long way from Ray Lewis. Ray plays the game the way it should be played." A big, strong linebacker at 6-foot-3, 252 pounds, Burfict's lack of discipline extends to his off-field conduct. Burfict allegedly punched a smaller teammate in the locker room. The former blue-chip recruit also has a history of academic problems. As the Ravens search for a potential successor to Lewis, they should probably look in a different direction than Burfict. Boston College standout Luke Kuechly is regarded as the consensus top inside linebacker in the draft. However, he's not expected to get past the Philadelphia Eagles' No. 15 overall selection of the first round. Other than Kuechly, Mayock doesn't grade any other inside linebackers as worthy of going in the first round. Not all draft experts agree, though. For the Ravens, big Alabama inside linebacker Dont'a Hightower is another intriguing possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrellegivesmeaboner#24 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 All it takes is one team to love him. There is still a lot to love... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 All it takes is one team to love him. There is still a lot to love... Oh there certainly is. As i mentioned earlier, I would strongly consider him in the Second. if Bit is right, and he falls to the 3rd or 4th, I would run to the podium with the selection. He is an extremely intimidating player Problem is the guy is a psycho. Doesn't seem to take coaching well, and plays out of control. Seems to play to hurt people. He's the kind of guy that your defense just held their opponent on a 4th and goal at the 1, and he decides to punch a WR as he is walking off the field, giving them a 1st and goal at the 1/2 yard line. Watch the highlights on here. How many of those plays do you think would be called in the NFL for leading with the helmet? Most of them? If some one could get him under control he could be a great player. Or he might just have a screw loose and doesn't really care about winning, just hurting people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Watch the highlights on here. How many of those plays do you think would be called in the NFL for leading with the helmet? Most of them? this is actually a really important point even if Burfict was a boy scout off the field, super respectful to coaches etc. the way he plays is not allowed in the NFL. it's crazy but the NCAA allows alot more contact than the pro game, especially against QB's and especially helmet to helmet. there are many plays in NCAA that draw no flag that would be 15 yard personal fouls in the pros, and probably a 25k fine on top. He can't just rape a QB like in college, he's got to hit him above the knees and below the facemask, it's an adjustment. Because of the way the rules are changing, and because LB is such an instinctual position (don't really have time to think out there), Burfict's value drops. So he's got 2 weights on his stock: his personal issues and the way he plays. one other note, he was always the stud on that team so I don't know how much special teams he can play or even if he will be useful in that role. Like Aaron Maybin was mostly useless on specials, Burfict would have to learn that stuff from scratch. A team could draft him in the later rounds, find he can't play specials, and cut him. Unless he's your starting MLB how can he get active? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Ok, I'll bet anybody here $1000 they don't draft an ILB in the first round. Agreed. Why drop a 1st rounder on a guy to take up blocks while David Harris makes tackles. What about a freaking safety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Guys Im seeing/reading him falling to the 3rd round or later...I guess using a 1st is silly now, but how do you feel about using our 2nd rounder, i mean I got to figure if he gets to us in the 2nd he ont make it to the third someone will take a shot on him by then... I hope we pick this guy up, i like the attitude and think he is the perfect Bart replacement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTJ06 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Guys Im seeing/reading him falling to the 3rd round or later...I guess using a 1st is silly now, but how do you feel about using our 2nd rounder, i mean I got to figure if he gets to us in the 2nd he ont make it to the third someone will take a shot on him by then... I hope we pick this guy up, i like the attitude and think he is the perfect Bart replacement... MTJ06, on 15 February 2012 - 12:56 PM, said: Pre-Combine News & Notes 14 Feb The buzz around Arizona State linebacker Vontaze Burfict unfortunately continues to be negative. I was told at the Senior Bowl when he showed up for combine training in January, Burfict looked soft and out of shape. Latest word has him completing less than 15 reps on the bench recently and Burfict has been slowed by a leg (hamstring) issue. All that we’ve talked with say the biggest issue surrounding the often times dominant linebacker is work ethic. http://www.draftinsi...et/blog/?p=6131 MTJ06, on 15 February 2012 - 08:41 PM, said: Vontaze Burfict - LB - Player After watching "a bunch of tape" on Arizona State ILB Vontaze Burfict recently, NFL Network's Mike Mayock believes Burfict is not worth a first-round pick in April's draft. "I'm not a fan at all," said Mayock. "I just watched a bunch of his tape the other day. I came away unimpressed." Mayock said he tried to filter out Burfict's off- and on-field behavioral issues and graded him strictly off game tape. "His instincts aren't good," Mayock observed. "He gets enveloped by bigger bodies and he runs around blocks. I don't see first round at all." Vontaze Burfict - LB - Player One NFL scout told ESPN's Todd McShay that Arizona State ILB Vontaze Burfict was flagged for 17 personal fouls in his college career. Burfict was a third-year junior before he declared for the draft, so the 17 personal foul penalties occurred only in a 35-game span. And that's not including other, lesser penalties. On-field character is a real concern for Burfict. His work ethic and 2011 performance have also been criticized widely. https://twitter.com/...955301561339905 http://www.rotoworld...ts/nfl/football -- I talked to one talent evaluator who said he's going to do more studying on ASU linebacker Vontaze Burfict. He said he's heard all about the guy's problems and saw him play a time or two this year. In one game, Burfict came out really early, wearing no shirt. It was not a good look, said the scout, who wasn't impressed with Burfict's physique. But the scout said he wanted to have an open mind in evaluating Burfict and that he hoped the kid succeeded. http://www.azcentral...ntSomers/155778 I dont know seems like there are alot of questions surrounding him, and I dont think the Jets can afford to take the risk in the first 3 rounds on another project the way we have the last 2 years with Ducasse and Ellis. Seems like Burfict is really going to have to have a great combine and/or pro day to turn around peoples impressions of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 MTJ06, on 15 February 2012 - 12:56 PM, said: Pre-Combine News & Notes 14 Feb The buzz around Arizona State linebacker Vontaze Burfict unfortunately continues to be negative. I was told at the Senior Bowl when he showed up for combine training in January, Burfict looked soft and out of shape. Latest word has him completing less than 15 reps on the bench recently and Burfict has been slowed by a leg (hamstring) issue. All that we’ve talked with say the biggest issue surrounding the often times dominant linebacker is work ethic. http://www.draftinsi...et/blog/?p=6131 MTJ06, on 15 February 2012 - 08:41 PM, said: Vontaze Burfict - LB - Player After watching "a bunch of tape" on Arizona State ILB Vontaze Burfict recently, NFL Network's Mike Mayock believes Burfict is not worth a first-round pick in April's draft. "I'm not a fan at all," said Mayock. "I just watched a bunch of his tape the other day. I came away unimpressed." Mayock said he tried to filter out Burfict's off- and on-field behavioral issues and graded him strictly off game tape. "His instincts aren't good," Mayock observed. "He gets enveloped by bigger bodies and he runs around blocks. I don't see first round at all." Vontaze Burfict - LB - Player One NFL scout told ESPN's Todd McShay that Arizona State ILB Vontaze Burfict was flagged for 17 personal fouls in his college career. Burfict was a third-year junior before he declared for the draft, so the 17 personal foul penalties occurred only in a 35-game span. And that's not including other, lesser penalties. On-field character is a real concern for Burfict. His work ethic and 2011 performance have also been criticized widely. https://twitter.com/...955301561339905 http://www.rotoworld...ts/nfl/football -- I talked to one talent evaluator who said he's going to do more studying on ASU linebacker Vontaze Burfict. He said he's heard all about the guy's problems and saw him play a time or two this year. In one game, Burfict came out really early, wearing no shirt. It was not a good look, said the scout, who wasn't impressed with Burfict's physique. But the scout said he wanted to have an open mind in evaluating Burfict and that he hoped the kid succeeded. http://www.azcentral...ntSomers/155778 I dont know seems like there are alot of questions surrounding him, and I dont think the Jets can afford to take the risk in the first 3 rounds on another project the way we have the last 2 years with Ducasse and Ellis. Seems like Burfict is really going to have to have a great combine and/or pro day to turn around peoples impressions of him. ahh 4th rounder indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Agreed. Why drop a 1st rounder on a guy to take up blocks while David Harris makes tackles. What about a freaking safety? Dude safety is like the 81st most important position! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets62 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Great talent but has a VERY bad habit of not wrapping up. Special teams demon. Could be a thug headcase though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Or this could all be negative smoke-screening to ensure he falls to a team in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Or this could all be negative smoke-screening to ensure he falls to a team in the 2nd round. By who? Isn't Mayock an ESPN guy? These guys work for networks. These aren't quotes being attributed to any team reps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTJ06 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Posted on: February 27, 2012 10:38 am Edited on: February 27, 2012 Burfict from yellow flags to red ones? Over the weekend in Indy, I spoke to a few NFL scouts and assistants about some draft hopefuls. I'm not sure any player here sparked a worse reaction than Vontaze Burfict. Seems the Arizona State linebacker has gone from being plagued by yellow flags to eliciting red ones now. "I wouldn't touch him," said one scout. "He does have some talent, but he is so undisciplined on and off the field. The guy is completely out of control. There's no way you could trust him. I can't believe they (ASU coaching staff) didn't cut him loose." Burfict, who measured in at 6-feet-3, 248 pounds (about 12 under his playing weight this season, he said), has received a lot of hype over his college career. Much of it stemmed from some of his thunderous hits, but it was his recklessness that also dogged him and the Sun Devils from his first season at ASU to his last. He was selected to some all-American teams as a sophomore in 2010, but didn't even earn All-Pac-12 honors in 2011 before he opted to enter the draft as a junior, when he made just 69 tackles on a team that many thought would win at least 10 games but instead finished just 6-7. “I played average,” Burfict explained to reporters in Indy. “I could've played better. That's what hurt me at times. The coaches kind of messed me up. I didn't know if I would start a game or be benched. It hurt me, but I tried to fight through it.” NFL personnel folks cringe when they hear a player publicly put some of the blame on his coaches. "You just scratch your head at some of the knucklehead things he does on tape," said one NFL coach. "It was the same thing over and over and over again with him. He seemed to personify why that team always seemed to underachieve." One of things Burfict was asked about by the media in Indy was his role in a rumored locker-room fight with an ASU wideout. Burfict confirmed the incident, adding that he wished it never happened. “We're not supposed to hit each other in seven-on-seven,” Burfict said. “We had an argument, and we brought it into the locker room. We started chattering about it. He started rough-housing me. He pushed me, and my first instinct was to swing. And everyone thinks I’m the bad guy because my first instinct was to swing on the guy.” The draft is always full of "boom-or-bust" guys. That's Burfict, although because he's had so many issues, he'll probably be less of a risk since few people project him as such a high draft pick any more. http://bruce-feldman...s/view/31626208 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Posted on: February 27, 2012 10:38 am Edited on: February 27, 2012 Burfict from yellow flags to red ones? Over the weekend in Indy, I spoke to a few NFL scouts and assistants about some draft hopefuls. I'm not sure any player here sparked a worse reaction than Vontaze Burfict. Seems the Arizona State linebacker has gone from being plagued by yellow flags to eliciting red ones now. "I wouldn't touch him," said one scout. "He does have some talent, but he is so undisciplined on and off the field. The guy is completely out of control. There's no way you could trust him. I can't believe they (ASU coaching staff) didn't cut him loose." Burfict, who measured in at 6-feet-3, 248 pounds (about 12 under his playing weight this season, he said), has received a lot of hype over his college career. Much of it stemmed from some of his thunderous hits, but it was his recklessness that also dogged him and the Sun Devils from his first season at ASU to his last. He was selected to some all-American teams as a sophomore in 2010, but didn't even earn All-Pac-12 honors in 2011 before he opted to enter the draft as a junior, when he made just 69 tackles on a team that many thought would win at least 10 games but instead finished just 6-7. “I played average,” Burfict explained to reporters in Indy. “I could've played better. That's what hurt me at times. The coaches kind of messed me up. I didn't know if I would start a game or be benched. It hurt me, but I tried to fight through it.” NFL personnel folks cringe when they hear a player publicly put some of the blame on his coaches. "You just scratch your head at some of the knucklehead things he does on tape," said one NFL coach. "It was the same thing over and over and over again with him. He seemed to personify why that team always seemed to underachieve." One of things Burfict was asked about by the media in Indy was his role in a rumored locker-room fight with an ASU wideout. Burfict confirmed the incident, adding that he wished it never happened. “We're not supposed to hit each other in seven-on-seven,” Burfict said. “We had an argument, and we brought it into the locker room. We started chattering about it. He started rough-housing me. He pushed me, and my first instinct was to swing. And everyone thinks I’m the bad guy because my first instinct was to swing on the guy.” The draft is always full of "boom-or-bust" guys. That's Burfict, although because he's had so many issues, he'll probably be less of a risk since few people project him as such a high draft pick any more. http://bruce-feldman...s/view/31626208 WOW This guys one chance to jump back up the draft boards was to interview well, and convince NFL personal guys he would be a team player, and his insanity was mostly legend. Doesn't seem like he is even going to attempt to convince them he is sane. From what I'm reading here the guy has almost zero chance to be selected in the first 2-3 rounds, unless some GM has also lost his mind. Jets probably should have some extra late round draft picks. If he falls to the 5th and beyond, do you take a chance on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 By who? Isn't Mayock an ESPN guy? These guys work for networks. These aren't quotes being attributed to any team reps. Dom, half of the quotes are by "NFL scouts and assistants" ... Not that Mayock doesn't have credibility I actually like his know-it-all rhetoric, but he's been wrong before, and he's just reporting what he saw from finally watching some tape of some games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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