I Really Hope it was All Schottenheimer's Fault

[Larz]

The bad news, for me, is that Sparano seems to be heralded as the Godfather of the Wildcat. With the Tebow acquisition,

he isn't, it was the assistant on his staff from arkansas that brought it in and henning ran it out of desperation. the media has no idea how the jets will use tebow, they are just guessing. there was a great article posted here about sparano being from the perkins tree, which is good news.

[Larz]

Somebody should ask Chad Henne about Sparano's awesome nurturing skills as far as fixing struggling young QBs goes. It's a boneheaded, short-sighted, good ol' boys hire that has almost no chance of working. Bill Callahan has lorded over some dominant rushing attacks in his career and couldn't squeeze anything out of this group last year and the talent level has actually gotten worse. Are defenses afraid of Jeremy Kerley beating them deep? Chaz Schilens? Right. I'm loading up to watch a bunch of 24 carry/74 yard games for Shonn Greene until Sparano and Rex decide it's all Sanchez's fault that the ball isn't moving and we get the start of the Tebow Era. Week Four, tops.

stale and boring

[JetsFanInDenver]

I am all for a backup QB pushing Mark Sanchez. But won't it have been better if the backup QB was someone who could actually throw ?

[Smashmouth]

Repeat after me... I love the Jets and the Jets love me....I love the Jets and the Jets love me.....keep saying that a few hundred times as you walk down the street.....

Dont challenge him too much he might walk into a pole.

[bitonti]

schotty was a scapegoat, period. The difference between a good OC and a bad OC is in the mind of the fan. People don't realize that all the NFL offenses are basically the same mismosh of Bill Walsh/Air Coryell legacy that every other team runs. They got unlucky with injuries (mangold) and poor execution from key players (sanchez). Tom Brady didn't even have an offensive coordinator for the last few years. The OC had good games he had bad games, but this idea that Sanchez is awesome and Schotty is holding him back, that's purely a fan construct. Schotty got another job in 5 minutes cause he's a competent coach. He's not a genius but there are no geniuses on the market. there's no magic upgrade at the OC position. Hence the Tony Sparano hiring, basically an OL coach who was promoted too much. He's known for a glorified college offense known as the wildcat. Hooray. He's not Stephen Hawking. He's actually dumbing the offense down (probably for Sanchez' benefit). We can argue Sparano was a worse candidate than Schotty. He was out of work since before thanksgiving. Schotty got another job in a week. He can and will run an offense just fine. And he will probably be a HC one day. cause that's the way the NFL works.

[bitonti]

Schottenheimer didn't fit here as a passing OC on a team with no good passers and a HC who wants to run it. It was a bad fit,

+1 schotty was a bad fit but he's not a bad coach. Any coach is as good or as bad as their best player. Schotty didn't draw up plays that ended Mark totalling 26 turnovers over the year. That's execution. They couldn't (or wouldn't) fire Sanchez so they fired Schotty.

[SenorGato]

Yeah I too continue to insist that Schitty is a good NFL coach. In time I think he'll be known as one of the better ones out there.

[SenorGato]

+1 schotty was a bad fit but he's not a bad coach. Any coach is as good or as bad as their best player. Schotty didn't draw up plays that ended Mark totalling 26 turnovers over the year. That's execution. They couldn't (or wouldn't) fire Sanchez so they fired Schotty.

Ok you lost me on the turnovers. He designed, planned, and called those. I think you mean TDs and how Sanchez overcame those plays?

[Smashmouth]

I never liked Schotty - but its fair to say last year was not all his fault. The personnel on offense was horrible. Rex had to get involved in the offense every year as head coach. Which tells me that Rex needed a stronger OC.

The personnel on offense is still bad at the skill positions.

@Slats I hope your wrong bud and the Jets start to get some young WR/RB's in here . if everyone is so dead set aganist signing a RB or WR then we better stop relying on 5th round picks to fill the void. If the Jets do not get another WR and Chaz still cant stay healthy expect another tough year for Holmes without a doubt

[T0mShane]

Yeah I too continue to insist that Schitty is a good NFL coach. In time I think he'll be known as one of the better ones out there.

He's a lesser Scott Linehan.

[Smashmouth]

Yeah I too continue to insist that Schitty is a good NFL coach. In time I think he'll be known as one of the better ones out there.

How in the hell can you make this assessment ? Hes done nothing in this league and hes been tortured for ignorant moves since he got here put the consistency behind the guys timing is borderline moronic as are his non existent adjustments during the game

[GimmeShelter]

+1 schotty was a bad fit but he's not a bad coach. Any coach is as good or as bad as their best player. Schotty didn't draw up plays that ended Mark totalling 26 turnovers over the year. That's execution. They couldn't (or wouldn't) fire Sanchez so they fired Schotty.

You obviously missed Schotty's act during our failed comeback effort in the Pitt play-off game. He should have been fired the second that game was over. That game is not the only time the guy did not have plays prepared for whatever situation may have come up. He was awful more times than not during his time here but hey, maybe he throws off that same winning "it factor" thatTebow does when one is within a few hundred yards of him.

[SenorGato]

He's a lesser Scott Linehan.

Meh more like a less complaisant Sean Payton.

[yuvabuv]

I think that the RT problem can be solved simply with time. Great offensive lines play well when they know how to play with each other. Remember when the Jets had the best O-line in the league? That O-line also had the most games in a row played together. I also think that the fact they are going to Cortland this year will be huge. They definitely missed that bonding last year. Cortland was a huge variable missing last year IMO

[Bleedin Green]

Yeah I too continue to insist that Schitty is a good NFL coach. In time I think he'll be known as one of the better ones out there.

Yeah, all he needs is time. Everyone knows an OC needs more than a mere 6 years to show even the slightest level of competency. I think if the Jets were just patient and gave him and Sanchez another mere 5 to 10 years together, they maybe had an opportunity to have a slight chance to possibly develop all the way to the point of being not the most useless OC/QB tandem in the league. Man, that would have been something.

[SenorGato]

Yeah, all he needs is time. Everyone knows an OC needs more than a mere 6 years to show even the slightest level of competency. I think if the Jets were just patient and gave him and Sanchez another mere 5 to 10 years together, they maybe had an opportunity to have a slight chance to possibly develop all the way to the point of being not the most useless OC/QB tandem in the league. Man, that would have been something.

I know the Jets spoiled him with offensive talent while he was here starting with the legendary Pennington/Barlow duo he ruined during '06, I get that. We had legendary talent and he pissed it down the drain in 3 of the 6 years especially, I get that. I've found a way to make peace with that similar to how I found peace with the Cubs ruining Prior/Wood.

All he needs is what any super awesome OC has always had...a franchise QB (preferably picked up before he turns 40).

[ZachEY]

I'm surprised by that.. as a psychologist, I'd think having someone push you to be better, i.e. work harder, would be accepted. I know in my experiance it's like that, even with things like lifting weights.

Sure, if I actually thought Sanchez's issues were just effort related. I think Sanchez's issues are that he's not very good at football.

[bitonti]

You obviously missed Schotty's act during our failed comeback effort in the Pitt play-off game. He should have been fired the second that game was over.

You obviously missed Sanchez's performance during the 1st half of the Pitt playoff game.

There is no evaluation of the OC without taking the QB play into account. If Sanchez plays exactly as poorly as he did last year, it's gonna be more than just Schotty who gets fired.

[CTM]

Sure, if I actually thought Sanchez's issues were just effort related. I think Sanchez's issues are that he's not very good at football.

I guess that's where we disagree. I see someone whose capable of playing very well intermittanly. That tells me he has the ability, what's holding him back is likely mental. Maybe he doesn't work hard enough, or maybe he works hard but not smart, maybe he flakes out mentally during games like he's not into it, maybe he's emo sometimes and it holds him back.. maybe it's confidence, Maybe he doesn't have has mechanics automatic.. Dunno, but when I relate it to things in my life, like say playing guitar. I can play guitar, but I can never play it at an elite level. I don't have that ability. I'd imagine that if sometimes I could play guitar at an elite level, and sometimes I couldn't that my problems would be in my head (and yeah, I know this isn't an apples to apples comparison, just intented to be very high level)

To me, if he wants the job, having a guy like Tebow pushing him is going to force him to be 100% engaged at all times, and work harder. That can only be good for him. I do believe he's been coddled and probably doesn't work very hard. He may be first to get there and last to leave, but that doesn't equal working hard.

[GimmeShelter]

You obviously missed Sanchez's performance during the 1st half of the Pitt playoff game.

There is no evaluation of the OC without taking the QB play into account. If Sanchez plays exactly as poorly as he did last year, it's gonna be more than just Schotty who gets fired.

So the fact that his QB had a bad 1st half means he as the OC should freeze when his QB has led us back into the game and have no plays called for his QB and offense from inside the 10? I am not a Sanchez defender other than you don't cut bait this soon. I can admit how bad he was last year but there is no defense of how Schotty has performed here.

[CTM]

I know the Jets spoiled him with offensive talent while he was here starting with the legendary Pennington/Barlow duo he ruined during '06, I get that. We had legendary talent and he pissed it down the drain in 3 of the 6 years especially, I get that. I've found a way to make peace with that similar to how I found peace with the Cubs ruining Prior/Wood.

All he needs is what any super awesome OC has always had...a franchise QB (preferably picked up before he turns 40).

This year will be yet another interesting experiment in this arguement. Anyone think Brees falls apart without Payton?

I don't

[bitonti]

there is no defense of how Schotty has performed here.

coordinators don't perform. they coordinate. Players perform.

[ZachEY]

I guess that's where we disagree. I see someone whose capable of playing very well intermittanly. That tells me he has the ability, what's holding him back is likely mental. Maybe he doesn't work hard enough, or maybe he works hard but not smart, maybe he flakes out mentally during games like he's not into it, maybe he's emo sometimes and it holds him back.. maybe it's confidence, Maybe he doesn't have has mechanics automatic.. Dunno, but when I relate it to things in my life, like say playing guitar. I can play guitar, but I can never play it at an elite level. I don't have that ability. I'd imagine that if sometimes I could play guitar at an elite level, and sometimes I couldn't that my problems would be in my head (and yeah, I know this isn't an apples to apples comparison, just intented to be very high level)

To me, if he wants the job, having a guy like Tebow pushing him is going to force him to be 100% engaged at all times, and work harder. That can only be good for him. I do believe he's been coddled and probably doesn't work very hard. He may be first to get there and last to leave, but that doesn't equal working hard.

See, I'm not sure I agree with the guitar analogy. Here's why. You could probably string together a few notes that are just as good as anyone. Just as Sanchez can make a few plays that are just as good as any other QB, and Sanchez is a lot closer to a "top guitar player" than you are, in a manner of speaking of course. Basketball may be a great example of what I'm talking about. Lets say Lebron and I like up behind the arch and we both shoot a 3. There's a good enough chance we both make them. That doesn't make me as good as Lebron. Lets say Lebron and I shoot 20 3's. Lebron makes 17, I make 5. That's what makes us different. I guess the point being, sample size matters more than just mentally, because it's not a mental block that made me go 5/20 vs. his 17/20.

Further, the argument could easily be made that hearing footsteps causes Sanchez to tighten up and play worse. It could also be argued that Sanchez's hurt feelings negatively affect his game. So, the mental aspect could work in either direction.

[CTM]

See, I'm not sure I agree with the guitar analogy. Here's why. You could probably string together a few notes that are just as good as anyone. Just as Sanchez can make a few plays that are just as good as any other QB, and Sanchez is a lot closer to a "top guitar player" than you are, in a manner of speaking of course. Basketball may be a great example of what I'm talking about. Lets say Lebron and I like up behind the arch and we both shoot a 3. There's a good enough chance we both make them. That doesn't make me as good as Lebron. Lets say Lebron and I shoot 20 3's. Lebron makes 17, I make 5. That's what makes us different. I guess the point being, sample size matters more than just mentally, because it's not a mental block that made me go 5/20 vs. his 17/20.

I acknowledged the guitar example was a stretch, but the basketball example is a bigger one. Sanchez has played the position very well for stretches at a time. We're not talking about a fluke occurances subject to small sample size variances, it's certainly not something your or I could do well 3/20 times as opposed to his 12/20. We can not do it at all, just as I can not play the guitar like Jimi Hendrix.

My point is that he has the talent to do it, we've seen him do it. What we haven't seen is him consistantly do it. Playing QB at a high level is not something anyone can do sometimes, like making a three pointer

Further, the argument could easily be made that hearing footsteps causes Sanchez to tighten up and play worse. It could also be argued that Sanchez's hurt feelings negatively affect his game. So, the mental aspect could work in either direction.

Agreed completely. Bringing in a legitimate threat, even if it's just the fans chanting for it, could make the guy completely unravel.. But good for all of us, as that fairly conclusively shows he's not the guy

[Bleedin Green]

You obviously missed Sanchez's performance during the 1st half of the Pitt playoff game.

There is no evaluation of the OC without taking the QB play into account. If Sanchez plays exactly as poorly as he did last year, it's gonna be more than just Schotty who gets fired.

Yeah, I really hated the part where Sanchez called the idiotic play at the end of the half that ultimately gave the Steelers their margin of victory. The truth is that they both sucked a$$ at their jobs, and there's an endless list of evidence to support that for each one of them individually, and next to none that contradicts it. One of them sucking doesn't magically make the other not.

[Bleedin Green]

Agreed completely. Bringing in a legitimate threat, even if it's just the fans chanting for it, could make the guy completely unravel.. But good for all of us, as that fairly conclusively shows he's not the guy

That's assuming that the Jets actually acknowledge this if it does in fact happen, and instead don't send us into years of merry-go-ground of bad and worse QB play. I think the concept in it's simplest form might have some merit to it, but it loses absolutely all merit when the "threat" you brought in is even worse at the position than Sanchez is. I said even before the trade the Jets would have been much better off using that very same 4th rounder on a guy they thought they had a chance to be a legitimate option at the QB position.

The truth is I think the Jets took a decent concept and played it out in absolutely the worst possible manner. They managed to find a QB who's even worse than what they've got but people will be pining for in shorter time than anyone else they could have gotten that wouldn't have been the immediate starter. Even if Sanchez does show some improvement, anything short of a massive improvement at a rapid pace this season is ultimately going to lead to a controversy the moment Sanchez has a bad game, if not a bad half or quarter. I agree there's a chance it is mental, and the only way to find out is having someone to push him, but if that someone is already proven to be even worse than Sanchez and will give next to no window of evaluation of the situation before hysteria starts, it completely defeats the purpose. In the end, if Sanchez doesn't work out they still don't have a legit QB on the entire roster and yet will find themselves in a mess that likely won't end in the near future. They pretty much put all of their eggs into the whole "having someone to push Sanchez will immediately turn him into the QB we want him to be" basket, because if it doesn't work out that way, they'll be even worse off than they were before this.

[ZachEY]

I acknowledged the guitar example was a stretch, but the basketball example is a bigger one. Sanchez has played the position very well for stretches at a time. We're not talking about a fluke occurances subject to small sample size variances, it's certainly not something your or I could do well 3/20 times as opposed to his 12/20. We can not do it at all, just as I can not play the guitar like Jimi Hendrix.

Sure, you can't play the guitar like Hendrix, but Sanchez is better at QB than you are at guitar. There are plenty of professional musicians too that cannot play the guitar like Hendrix, but are still much better than you. I don't think it's a mental thing, I think that even at the highest level, there are still significant differences in ability level.

My point is that he has the talent to do it, we've seen him do it. What we haven't seen is him consistantly do it. Playing QB at a high level is not something anyone can do sometimes, like making a three pointer

I think you could say that about just about every NFL QB though. Most guys you see flashes of the reason they got there. Kyle Boller had great drives and made great throws too. So did Joey Harrington.

[Jetscode1]

schotty was a scapegoat, period. The difference between a good OC and a bad OC is in the mind of the fan. People don't realize that all the NFL offenses are basically the same mismosh of Bill Walsh/Air Coryell legacy that every other team runs. They got unlucky with injuries (mangold) and poor execution from key players (sanchez). Tom Brady didn't even have an offensive coordinator for the last few years. The OC had good games he had bad games, but this idea that Sanchez is awesome and Schotty is holding him back, that's purely a fan construct. Schotty got another job in 5 minutes cause he's a competent coach. He's not a genius but there are no geniuses on the market. there's no magic upgrade at the OC position. Hence the Tony Sparano hiring, basically an OL coach who was promoted too much. He's known for a glorified college offense known as the wildcat. Hooray. He's not Stephen Hawking. He's actually dumbing the offense down (probably for Sanchez' benefit). We can argue Sparano was a worse candidate than Schotty. He was out of work since before thanksgiving. Schotty got another job in a week. He can and will run an offense just fine. And he will probably be a HC one day. cause that's the way the NFL works.

Does the HC taking away playcalling duties or a OC getting fired ever help the OC learn? Or are they all just swell guys who we can interchange at any moment?

Seriously...at some point the coach either gets the message to his unit or the unit tunes him out...at which point a change is necessary...

That's not a fan construct...that's business...produce or move out...not sure I see the point in blaming the fans for not liking the Jets offensive product the past several years...

[CTM]

Sure, you can't play the guitar like Hendrix, but Sanchez is better at QB than you are at guitar. There are plenty of professional musicians too that cannot play the guitar like Hendrix, but are still much better than you. I don't think it's a mental thing, I think that even at the highest level, there are still significant differences in ability level.

I wasn't really suggesting there wasn't still significant differences. I've never seen the guy play like Rodgers for instance, what I'm saying the guy has shown me that he posses the ability to play like a near elite guy, and done so for signficant chunks of time. He's streaky... can play lights out for 4 drives, and then play like garbage for 4. Just looks to me like something mentally wrong

I think you could say that about just about every NFL QB though. Most guys you see flashes of the reason they got there. Kyle Boller had great drives and made great throws too. So did Joey Harrington.

There's plenty of QB's that came up and never showed that kind of ability too.... I dunno, I guess from my perspective, Id imagine someone in your profession would put greater creedence in the idea that motivation could be a factor. I can think of many things in my life in which competition was the catalyst for significant performance improvements... I know for a fact I'm not at the top of my game in work, cause I'm comfortable and relatively unchallanged. If someone was brought in that challanged me, I'd be forced to get my a$$ in gear.

[ZachEY]

There's plenty of QB's that came up and never showed that kind of ability too.... I dunno, I guess from my perspective, Id imagine someone in your profession would put greater creedence in the idea that motivation could be a factor. I can think of many things in my life in which competition was the catalyst for significant performance improvements... I know for a fact I'm not at the top of my game in work, cause I'm comfortable and relatively unchallanged. If someone was brought in that challanged me, I'd be forced to get my a$$ in gear.

I do agree that competition can motivate us to perform better. Where we differ is the first part of you post. I don't think Sanchez's problems are mental in that way. I think there is a huge mental component to it, but I think that's more along the lines of being overwhelmed by what's happening on the field.

I never bought into the Sanchez is lazy thing. I think he works hard and really wants to win. I just think the step from the USC (where he only needed one read, his guys were much better than the opponent, and he never had to face much pressure) to the pro's was too much for him.

[SenorGato]

This year will be yet another interesting experiment in this arguement. Anyone think Brees falls apart without Payton?

I don't

Same here.

I wonder how their D does without Williams too...

[T0mShane]

lol Schotty is the new Herm: "You guys dont realize how awesome every personnel man in the league secretly thinks Herm is (but I know cuz I read blogs). Just wait until he gets on another team--he'll show everybody what a super great head coach he is! Stupid Pennington held him back!"

[T0mShane]

I know the Jets spoiled him with offensive talent while he was here starting with the legendary Pennington/Barlow duo he ruined during '06, I get that. We had legendary talent and he pissed it down the drain in 3 of the 6 years especially, I get that. I've found a way to make peace with that similar to how I found peace with the Cubs ruining Prior/Wood.

All he needs is what any super awesome OC has always had...a franchise QB (preferably picked up before he turns 40).

Except Schotty worked out and hand-selected both Kellen Clemens and Mark Sanchez and proceeded to not develop either of them. You could fire him for that alone.

[CTM]

I do agree that competition can motivate us to perform better. Where we differ is the first part of you post. I don't think Sanchez's problems are mental in that way. I think there is a huge mental component to it, but I think that's more along the lines of being overwhelmed by what's happening on the field.

I never bought into the Sanchez is lazy thing. I think he works hard and really wants to win. I just think the step from the USC (where he only needed one read, his guys were much better than the opponent, and he never had to face much pressure) to the pro's was too much for him.

Got ya, I just don't seethe guy as a hard worker. He didn't look like it in ard Knocks and are rookie QB's that work hard really off doing multiple GQ shoots season 1. Everytime they show the guy on the sideline mid game he's lounging around, meanwhile there's mutliple shots per game of Brady/Brees/Manning looking at film. Guy just seems like a spoiled, entillted laid back calirfornia douche.. none of these qualities indicate hard worker to me

[ZachEY]

Got ya, I just don't seethe guy as a hard worker. He didn't look like it in ard Knocks and are rookie QB's that work hard really off doing multiple GQ shoots season 1. Everytime they show the guy on the sideline mid game he's lounging around, meanwhile there's mutliple shots per game of Brady/Brees/Manning looking at film. Guy just seems like a spoiled, entillted laid back calirfornia douche.. none of these qualities indicate hard worker to me

There is more going on with the in game stuff then we know. It's not like any of the other QBs have their own printers. The coaches don't go over the film with him. That's not cause Shotty is an idiot either. Obviously my biases lead me to believe he just doesn't have a clue what he's looking at, but it's not as simple as lazy. Coaches would never allow that in game.