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Jetsfan80

The worst decision so far this offseason was NOT the Tebow trade....

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Jetsfan80    72,539

....It was the Sanchez extension, and that will likely remain the case no matter what we do in the draft or the remainder of free agency.

The Tebow trade, if considered in a vacuum, was actually a decent decision from a football standpoint. You could do worse than giving up a 4th for an offensive weapon who basically saves a roster space with his versatility.

However, I believe the correct order of operations SHOULD have been the following:

1. Leave Sanchez's contract alone and find cap space elsewhere. With 2 years remaining, he was neither a lame duck, nor was he getting the full backing of the front office. Which he didn't deserve given his performance.

2. Bring in a backup QB to challenge Sanchez for the job. Whether that was Tebow, Jason Campbell, Kyle Orton, or any other player who could provide token pressure to Sanchez.

3. In the unlikely event Sanchez loses the job in a fair competition, no, it wouldn't have been good news, but at least the coaching staff and front office could start to look in the proper direction. The same would be true if Sanchez won the job but lost it later in the season.

4. If Sanchez wins the job and goes on to have a solid year, THEN you can re-evaluate his contract and decide if he deserves an extension. If he wins the job and has a "meh" year, then you consider whether you want to cut him and look elsewhere or let him go into the final season of his deal as a lame duck.

However, Tannenbaum decided to do everything backwards, which I think will ultimately will end in his demise, to the delight of T0mShane.

He handed Sanchez more money and years. Then he brought in a backup (Drew Stanton) who had no shot at pushing Sanchez. Finally, he went after Tebow, who perhaps is not a legitimate backup QB but he is still on the depth chart as the # 2 and has started with some success in this league, and of course has an undeniable cult following.

THAT, my friends, is truly putting the cart before the horse.

Edited by Jetsfan80

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CoachTsurfing    4,010

I disagree, not because I'm in love with Sanchez. I think this extension will make it easier for the jets to cut him if he doesn't take this next step up this season. To me signing hunter was the worst thing they have done this off season. That and not getting super mario.

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RevisIsland610    136

I will be very happy when Tannebaum is fired. He had an atrocious off season last year and his decision making processs so far this this year has been anything but coherent. Hey Mike don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out.

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Larz    59,446

they paid him 2.5 million in exchange for cap relief and VOIDABLE years

it was covered already, the extension was not what it seemed

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SenorGato    13,223

they paid him 2.5 million in exchange for cap relief and VOIDABLE years

it was covered already, the extension was not what it seemed

Pretty much...and if he breaks out then he's hovering around bargain anyway...he won't, but that's why the NFL makes it fairly easy for teams to get out.

Can't say I hate anything per se, but missing out on Williams or Nicks kinda sucks.

Edited by SenorGato

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GangGreen25    10

From a fan standpoint the Sanchez deal cost Woody Johnson money so who cares. The irony is we probably don't have Tebow without clearing that cap space. It doesn't bother me when a fan says "we only gave up a 4th", but it bothers me that our GM doesn't want that pick. Some teams make a living stockpiling 4's,5's,and 6's and build championships. Unfortunatley the reality is you can't consider the deal in a vacuum, the distraction is a huge problem. I hope he helps but we will never know what kind of football player we would get with a #4 pick .

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Smashmouth    10,793

We should have signed Winston which would have solidified the O-Line and we could have possibly moved Hunter to LG where he said he was more comfortable leaving back up duty to Slauson, Odowd and shalrhofffffffff (how ever you spell that guys name) and send Ducasse packing

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bitonti    36,751

1. Leave Sanchez's contract alone and find cap space elsewhere.

there was no other place to find space. leaving Mark play out this year, they don't even have the cap space to sign Pouha.

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T0mShane    90,977

However, Tannenbaum decided to do everything backwards, which I think will ultimately will end in his demise, to the delight of T0mShane.

Party like it's 1999.

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denden29    22

I think there is a lot of confusion about Sanchez new contract and what it really saves.

Under his old terms Sanchez counted $14.25 million in 2012: base salary $8.5 million, prorated bonus $2.5 million, roster bonus $2.75 million and a $500,000 workout bonus. If you released Sanchez under these terms in 2012 you save $9.25 million with $5 million in dead money.

In 2013 Sanchez’s old contract totaled $8.5 million: base salary $4.5 million, prorated bonus $2.5 million, roster bonus $1 million, workout bonus $500,000. If you released him under these terms the team saves $6 million with $2.5 million in dead money.

It is worth noting Sanchez would most likely have agreed to convert the 2012 roster bonus of $2.75 million into signing bonus spreading it out over 2012 and 2013. If he did this he’d still get the $2.75 million in 2012 just changed the accounting of the numbers for salary cap reasons.

New numbers if Sanchez prorates roster bonus: $12.86 million cap value 2012 saving $1.39 million, but his 2013 cap value would increase to $9.89 million and would result in savings of $6 million but dead money of $3.89 million if released.

So Sanchez’s cap hit for 12/13 was $22.75 million under the terms of his old contract and at most the team takes a $5 million dead money hit if released. Basically Sanchez was very vulnerable.

Sanchez new terms: $11.25 million base salary fully guaranteed and a workout bonus of $500,000 but his old prorated bonus $2.5 million counts on the cap so his 2012 cap value was $14.25 million in 2012.

Sanchez new 2013 terms: $8.25 million base salary fully guaranteed and work out bonus $500,000 but his old prorated bonus counts $2.5 million total 2013 cap hit $11.25 million.

So Sanchez new cap hit became $25.5 million over those two years instead of $22.75 million, this was the $2.75 ‘extra money’ those in the media were talking about making it seem like the Jets got some bargain. Now the Jets turned $8 million in guarantee 2012 salary into signing bonus pushing $1.6 million into 2012,13,14,15,16.

Now Sanchez counts $7.85 million in 2012 saving $6.4 million but increases 2013 to $12.85 million.

Now if you release Sanchez in 2013 his dead money hit will be $17.15 million: His guaranteed base salary of $8.25, prorated bonus of $2.5 plus the $1.6 you prorated in 2012 plus $4.8 million that accelerates from ’14,’15,’16 Total: $8.9 million in additional dead money on top of the base salary.

So even if you trade Sanchez and some team is dumb enough to pick up the entire base salary the Jets will still have an $8.9 million dead money hit. So in 2012/13 Sanchez counts $20.7 million instead of $22.75 million, saving a whopping $2.05 million

Basically the Jets screwed themselves. They could have prorated Cromartie’s roster bonus saving $2 million, used the CBA exemption saving $1.5 million and allocated the $1.6 violation money to 2012 that would be $5.1 million extra and if Sanchez prorated his original roster bonus you’d have $6.5 million in additional space, the same thing you got with the restructure but leaving Sanchez open to cutting in 2013.

As far as signing Eric Winston or any other FA, just ask one question ‘How many multi-year deals have the Jets given to FA this year?’ They have signed 7 FA and one Pouha got more than one year because the Jets can afford to carry much salary into 2013 but I guess increasing Sanchez salary in that year by $4.35 million was a smart move?

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GREENBEAN    6,054

We should have signed Winston which would have solidified the O-Line and we could have possibly moved Hunter to LG where he said he was more comfortable leaving back up duty to Slauson, Odowd and shalrhofffffffff (how ever you spell that guys name) and send Ducasse packing

I was going to say the same thing about Winston. That, IMO wa the worst non move of the offseason. We should have made it a priority to get that guy. He didn't even sign for a ridiculous contract either. That would have made the offseason and FA period fine in muy book.

There's still plenty of time and more will happen. I think we make a run at Atogwe and have a good draft. All things change when that happens.

Ducasse is still a huge question mark.

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rillo    52,061

they paid him 2.5 million in exchange for cap relief and VOIDABLE years

it was covered already, the extension was not what it seemed

This.

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jack48    6,364

I actually question whether Mr. T. makes the personnel decisions. I always thought that Mangini made the calls when he was here, and Tannenbaum juggled the books. I kind of have the feeling that Rex and Woody are telling him who to draft now. The guy is just not a football man, and when he explains picks he sounds like an accountant explaining picks.

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SenorGato    13,223

The Pittsburgh Steelers

O rly? That's the big secret to Steeler success?

Edited by SenorGato

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stoicsentry    17,931

If I understand it correctl, they basically hitched their wagon to him. Which is fine. If they believe in him, that's fine, because if he does develop, they will be getting good bang for their buck at the QB position. Right?

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GangGreen25    10

What team builds championships on the backs of stockpiled 4-7 picks?

Patriots, Steelers, 90's Cowboys (almost all from Minnesota for Walker) to name a few. I am sure research would yield more.

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Smashmouth    10,793

O rly? That's the big secret to Steeler success?

If you dont know by now that the Steelers draft very well and are one of, if not the best run organizations in football, then I dont know what to tell ya.

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SenorGato    13,223

If you dont know by now that the Steelers draft very well and are one of, if not the best run organizations in football, then I dont know what to tell ya.

Oh, that's what I said? That's the point you were making? Why did I respond to you?

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SenorGato    13,223

Patriots, Steelers, 90's Cowboys (almost all from Minnesota for Walker) to name a few. I am sure research would yield more.

....

Those teams were carried by their late picks? MAYBE the Pats, because their QB comes from that territory, but what in the hell are you people talking about? The same 90's Cowboys with Aikman (1:1 IIRC), Smith (1), Larry Allen (2nd), Irvin (1), Norton (2nd), Maynard (1:1), Charles Haley (a stud FA signing, sure from the 4th)...others...?

Of course that teams have FIFTY THREE players on a roster does mean that there will be 4-7 rounders on a roster...but really? What 4-7 crop carries any team anywhere?

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GangGreen25    10

....

Those teams were carried by their late picks? MAYBE the Pats, because their QB comes from that territory, but what in the hell are you people talking about? The same 90's Cowboys with Aikman (1:1 IIRC), Smith (1), Larry Allen (2nd), Irvin (1), Norton (2nd), Maynard (1:1), Charles Haley (a stud FA signing, sure from the 4th)...others...?

Of course that teams have FIFTY THREE players on a roster does mean that there will be 4-7 rounders on a roster...but really? What 4-7 crop carries any team anywhere?

Championships are won with great teams not 7 players. I really find it hard to believe that basically saying the best teams win by building through the draft, not free agency is being debated. The reason the Jets are better today is becasue of there success in the draft in years past ie.. Mangold, Ferguson, Revis. And like I said with more research I could find many more examples. Like do we know for sure The Cowboys didn;t use mid round picks to move up to get some of those 2nd round picks. Not sayiing they did but its an example of another value of stockpiling picks.

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GangGreen25    10

....

Those teams were carried by their late picks? MAYBE the Pats, because their QB comes from that territory, but what in the hell are you people talking about? The same 90's Cowboys with Aikman (1:1 IIRC), Smith (1), Larry Allen (2nd), Irvin (1), Norton (2nd), Maynard (1:1), Charles Haley (a stud FA signing, sure from the 4th)...others...?

Of course that teams have FIFTY THREE players on a roster does mean that there will be 4-7 rounders on a roster...but really? What 4-7 crop carries any team anywhere?

I never said a team was carried by picks 4-7 I said Championships TEAMS have been built by stockpiling mid round picks. Great special team players comefrom late picks including game changing return guys. Backups are mid round picks and in the NFL you better have some guys on the bench that can play. In the 2010 AFC Championship game the Steelers lost a center (and Pouncey is a good one) and a tackle and their offense didn't miss a beat. How do you think the Jets would fair in a game if Mangold and Ferguson were out by halftime????

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SenorGato    13,223

I never said a team was carried by picks 4-7 I said Championships TEAMS have been built by stockpiling mid round picks. Great special team players comefrom late picks including game changing return guys. Backups are mid round picks and in the NFL you better have some guys on the bench that can play. In the 2010 AFC Championship game the Steelers lost a center (and Pouncey is a good one) and a tackle and their offense didn't miss a beat. How do you think the Jets would fair in a game if Mangold and Ferguson were out by halftime????

The Jets need a great OL more than the Steelers do because they rely less on running the ball than the Jets do. When you have a QB you can takes hits in performance from the non-QB spots and still cover it because you can still pass and score. Without Mangold and the D'Brick then the offense's backbone just lost their two best players. That's going to paralyze it. Without Pouncey and whoever the other guy was the Steelers lost two good players who's job it is to protect their best player, a 250 pound QB who's played without great pass protection for alot of his career. Important pieces sure, but that's different from the Jets losing Mangold, who is probably this team's best all around offensive player.

I really find it hard to believe that basically saying the best teams win by building through the draft, not free agency is being debated.

I find it extremely strange that you think that's what was said.

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GangGreen25    10

The Jets need a great OL more than the Steelers do because they rely less on running the ball than the Jets do. When you have a QB you can takes hits in performance from the non-QB spots and still cover it because you can still pass and score. Without Mangold and the D'Brick then the offense's backbone just lost their two best players. That's going to paralyze it. Without Pouncey and whoever the other guy was the Steelers lost two good players who's job it is to protect their best player, a 250 pound QB who's played without great pass protection for alot of his career. Important pieces sure, but that's different from the Jets losing Mangold, who is probably this team's best all around offensive player.

I find it extremely strange that you think that's what was said.

Steelers ran for more yardage than the Jets last year and are consistantly in the top 10 in the NFL in rushing yardage. Yes in 2010 when we TRULY were ground and pound we had a great rushing year but the statistics don't support your argument that we are a running team and they are a passing team. But you are right with a QB like Ben, the toughest QB in the NFL to sack. He can hang in and make plays. But that's not what happened in that particular game. Mostly do to our lack of a bona fide pass rusher. And we are weak at safety and we need an inside linebacker to stop the run and if you are like me and fear Joe McKnight carrying the ball 150 times than we could benefit from a back up running back. Doesn't sound like the roster of an NFL team that has the luxery to trade picks for back up QBs.

I wrote the post, it wasn't spoken so I KNOW what I intended to convey. Teams build championships by stockpiling late round picks, I was specifically referring to the Patriots, most NFL fans know that is their M.O. You interpreted that as late round picks carry teams, not close to the same thing. It's the classic argument I had with teachers and professors of english all the time. In a novel I don't want to be told what the writer meant, I was to create my own interpretation based on my experiences. That is the fun of reading. It is also the fun in blogging.

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TechJet    5

weeeelll ya dosent have to gets all bent outta shapes about it!

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Smashmouth    10,793

Whats funny is when your a great running team at some point in the playoffs your going to face teams that shut down the run just like the steelers did to us 2 years ago. So if you rely on the run all year long and dont pass as much you are suddenly in trouble. When we talk about Elite QB's in the NFL all those teams do is throw all year long its much easier for them to score points on the better defenses and they probably have much more practice in those situations. So we run good all year like we did In Sanchez Rookie year then when we hit the brick wall we expect our QB to just turn it on and win us games in the playoffs and sorry but thats not the way it works. All that being Said Sanchez played pretty damn good both years in the playoffs and the defense did not nor did the running game when it counted. So at some point Ground and Pound will be stopped. This is not the NFL of 40 years ago now its all about loading teams down with talented skill players who can be a threat from anywhere on the field and the Jets do not have those type of players. Holmes can be that player but its now been proven hes not a number 1 WR and he cant do it alone if teams key on him which they did last year. if the Jets do not fix this it will be the same thing EVERY YEAR Sanchez or No Sanchez until they do fix it.

Edited by Smashmouth

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SenorGato    13,223

Steelers ran for more yardage than the Jets last year and are consistantly in the top 10 in the NFL in rushing yardage. Yes in 2010 when we TRULY were ground and pound we had a great rushing year but the statistics don't support your argument that we are a running team and they are a passing team. But you are right with a QB like Ben, the toughest QB in the NFL to sack. He can hang in and make plays. But that's not what happened in that particular game. Mostly do to our lack of a bona fide pass rusher. And we are weak at safety and we need an inside linebacker to stop the run and if you are like me and fear Joe McKnight carrying the ball 150 times than we could benefit from a back up running back. Doesn't sound like the roster of an NFL team that has the luxery to trade picks for back up QBs.

I wrote the post, it wasn't spoken so I KNOW what I intended to convey. Teams build championships by stockpiling late round picks, I was specifically referring to the Patriots, most NFL fans know that is their M.O. You interpreted that as late round picks carry teams, not close to the same thing. It's the classic argument I had with teachers and professors of english all the time. In a novel I don't want to be told what the writer meant, I was to create my own interpretation based on my experiences. That is the fun of reading. It is also the fun in blogging.

Soooooo....not having one fourth round pick in a draft where the Jets have something like 6 picks on Day 3 is going to stop us from landing that beastly 4th round pass rusher, 5th round starting safety, 6 round starting ILB, and backup RB? We're hung out to dry because they're missing one 4th rounder? The 6 Day 3 picks are...not stockpiling picks? I was supposed to read your mind when you whined about the dreaded lack of late day picks? Do you not see the trend in teams you listed who do stockpile late round picks (hint: It has something to do with QBs)?

How many championships have the Pats built with their late round picks btw? They throw a ton of late round picks into their D and it's garbage for it. It misses first rounders like Richard Seymour and Ty Warren, and oddly enough their best players (Ward the safety, Wilfork, and Mayo) are 1st or early 2nd rounders....Crazy right?

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