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#121 T0mShane

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:45 PM

Maybe. The only reason I have a hard time buying it is because he had two decent veterans to work with and didnt get much out of them. I dont watch enough of the other teams to get much of an idea how the coaches operate all the time, but it just seemed that Schotty never tried to work to the strengths of his players. It was more about his offense (or Rexs versions of it from 09-11) and getting the guys to buy into his offense. Maybe that works for coaches that have had great success in the past like Shannahan but I think Schotty should have been more flexible with some of the things they ran.


I'd agree with that. I was just trying to find a possible reason why Schottenheimer could get the rehire and be considered a young genius despite his underwhelming body of work. Believe me, I feel kinda bad for Sam Bradford right now.
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#122 RutgersJetFan

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:53 PM

9th in the league in TO's per drive. Why is that bad?


I really don't see the need to extrapolate total TO's like you and Jason keep doing. It's a total that correlates fairly well conventionally and the indirect effects going into any efforts at standardizing make it essentially useless.

(Chandler)'s a nice piece as long as he's the 7th most important player on your roster....I think they're going to be disappointed when they see he's just a pumped-up Drew Gooden.


#123 CTM

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:58 PM

I really don't see the need to extrapolate total TO's like you and Jason keep doing. It's a total that correlates fairly well conventionally and the indirect effects going into any efforts at standardizing make it essentially useless.


Ok, they were tied for 8th lowest in TO's in 2010.. feel better? The Giants had 42
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#124 SenorGato

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:10 PM

9th in the league in TO's per drive. Why is that bad?


Because one year Harbaugh got less TOs out of Smith playing in the weakest division in football.

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#125 Bleedin Green

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:20 PM

We've really gotten back to the point of debating whether or not Schotty sucked at his job? For those of you who forgot, the Jets even made it quite apparent that they thought so about 4 months back. Oh yeah, and there's that whole thing where he just quite clearly did.

Let's put it this way, it's a pretty reliable rule that when the only evidence you have is an endless list of excuses for why someone doesn't suck at what they do, the reality is that they actually just suck at what they do. That applies for everyone in every job, whether your name is Schotty, Sanchez, or Smith.
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#126 RutgersJetFan

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:33 PM

Ok, they were tied for...


Who cares?


Edited by RutgersJetFan, 04 May 2012 - 11:43 PM.

(Chandler)'s a nice piece as long as he's the 7th most important player on your roster....I think they're going to be disappointed when they see he's just a pumped-up Drew Gooden.


#127 RutgersJetFan

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:37 PM

Let's put it this way, it's a pretty reliable rule that when the only evidence you have is an endless list of excuses for why someone doesn't suck at what they do, the reality is that they actually just suck at what they do. That applies for everyone in every job, whether your name is Schotty, Sanchez, or Smith.


It's eerily similar to the Sanchez supporters. Those arguing in favor really seem to go to a whole lot of trouble to try and prove their point. The other end of the spectrum doesn't have to do much.

(Chandler)'s a nice piece as long as he's the 7th most important player on your roster....I think they're going to be disappointed when they see he's just a pumped-up Drew Gooden.


#128 slats

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:42 AM

Because one year Harbaugh got less TOs out of Smith playing in the weakest division in football.


So no excuses for Schotty this year!
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#129 T0mShane

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:13 AM

It's eerily similar to the Sanchez supporters. Those arguing in favor really seem to go to a whole lot of trouble to try and prove their point. The other end of the spectrum doesn't have to do much.


I think that scenario will be a dominant message board theme for this whole regime, unfortunately.


"Well, Rex because Schottenheimer because Sanchez because Tannenbaum because Woody"

Edited by T0mShane, 05 May 2012 - 06:52 AM.

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#130 Smashmouth

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:49 AM

What is there to explain smash, the bottom corner is playing off and darts back at snap, the read is McNight for a fairly easy first down. I've already said I would've had someone run a clearing route, I really don't understand what is so complicated. What I and anyone who isn't bonkers can plainly see is an easy first down if the QB makes a fairly simple read. He threw it to the worst possible choice. Your guy blew it.. The thread dbatesman linked has more explanation (including Holmes and Plax running lazy routes, you'll like that)


I mean seriously Smash, you really think Schotty doesn't run the same types of plays as everyone else. It's absurd. You must think you're smarter then Jeff Fischer (who scooped him up to be OC). You must also realize that the vast majority of people, including his own teammates know that Sanchez is the problem. But here's smash, arrogant as hell, claiming that only he and a band of looney's know better then the entire football establishment.

Schott sucks and a rehire isn't indicative of anything, but hitches are a staple in pretty much any offense and Walsh used to run that play all the time.


Chan I think the coverage was the same on both sides of the field and Plax was probably the first read that progressed from Sanchez left to his right. And RJF is definetely correct that a re hire means nothing in shottys case. Also when Walsh ran that play I would bet my life he cleared out some areas and did not have every receiver running the same basic route 2 -3 yards short of the first down marker. You can look at a play and say he should have went there but its not that simple and I think you know that. Especially when you have 5 guys doing the same thing.

How many times our WR's ran short of the marker during Shottys time here was startling and how it was not corrected was even more ridiculous. When simple problems do not get fixed I look at the coach. When you refer to Shottys plays being similar to others around the league to some extent you would probably be correct but that does not make him a good coach nor does it mean he mixes up the plays well.

I do not think he handled Sanchez well at all I think he babied him and thats not what Sanchez needed. I think we will see a difference with Sparano and I think we have already seen some difference in the way the Jets drafted this year since we actully went and got the big tall fast WR we should have drafted when we first drafted Sanchez. If Im wrong about all this and Sanchez does not start to cut down on the mistakes and up his completion percentage Ill be the first one to back down on the arguement but I think the kid deserves a chance.
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#131 Smashmouth

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:53 AM

Handselectedness vs It'severyoneelse'sfault. Smith/Vlad/Sanchez are secretly good vs Holmes/The Line are secretly bad, Different verbiage but at the end of the day it's still the same wet crap sitting on the tip of the camel's nose.



RJF I hope your not trying to say I think Vlad and Smaith are good players Im the first guy to say they should be tossed to the curb. From what I see the only thing we disagree on is Sanchez and time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

And dont insult me with comparisons to Gato thats just brutal. I prefer the retard pics to that comparison :)
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#132 CTM

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:11 AM

We've really gotten back to the point of debating whether or not Schotty sucked at his job? For those of you who forgot, the Jets even made it quite apparent that they thought so about 4 months back. Oh yeah, and there's that whole thing where he just quite clearly did.

Let's put it this way, it's a pretty reliable rule that when the only evidence you have is an endless list of excuses for why someone doesn't suck at what they do, the reality is that they actually just suck at what they do. That applies for everyone in every job, whether your name is Schotty, Sanchez, or Smith.


No, the issue has always been in regards to the QB.. SMash Viliian and the other Sanchezites scream it's not Sanchez, it's Schotty, cause he's completely incompetent. All I'm saying is I don't think that is a valid idea. I could give two sh*ts about Schotty in the long term, or even who we bring in. At the end of the day, to me, all that matters is Sanchez taking the next step. I've seen too many OC's go from genius to idiot and back again depending on the quality of their QB. Im pretty well convinced that the quality of QB is by far the most important factor..

So short of hiring a true luminary like Bill Walsh, which Sparano isn't, then these guys are for the most part interchangeable to me.
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#133 CTM

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:15 AM

I do not think he handled Sanchez well at all I think he babied him and thats not what Sanchez needed. I think we will see a difference with Sparano and I think we have already seen some difference in the way the Jets drafted this year since we actully went and got the big tall fast WR we should have drafted when we first drafted Sanchez. If Im wrong about all this and Sanchez does not start to cut down on the mistakes and up his completion percentage Ill be the first one to back down on the arguement but I think the kid deserves a chance.


Then knock him for that, cause at least it's possibly a valid criticism (and one that i agree with, especially from Rex).. This root tree and play design nonsense is ******* absurd, there all running variations of the same sh*t...

He absolutely can be held accountable for Sanchez/Clemens lack of development, but even then you dig deeper and ponder things like the sh*tty Oline in 07 and 11, the lack of receiving talent in 09, Sanchez's poor LCF, etc..
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#134 CTM

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 08:15 AM

I think that scenario will be a dominant message board theme for this whole regime, unfortunately.


"Well, Rex because Schottenheimer because Sanchez because Tannenbaum because Woody"


what a ray of sunshine you are :D
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#135 RutgersJetFan

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:36 AM

And dont insult me with comparisons to Gato thats just brutal.


Ha! That was good.

(Chandler)'s a nice piece as long as he's the 7th most important player on your roster....I think they're going to be disappointed when they see he's just a pumped-up Drew Gooden.


#136 RutgersJetFan

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:37 AM

I think that scenario will be a dominant message board theme for this whole regime, unfortunately.


"Well, Rex because Schottenheimer because Sanchez because Tannenbaum because Woody"


The funny part is that doing this with the Mets and Madoff is actually legit. The Jets have no excuse.

(Chandler)'s a nice piece as long as he's the 7th most important player on your roster....I think they're going to be disappointed when they see he's just a pumped-up Drew Gooden.


#137 Bleedin Green

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:22 AM

No, the issue has always been in regards to the QB.. SMash Viliian and the other Sanchezites scream it's not Sanchez, it's Schotty, cause he's completely incompetent. All I'm saying is I don't think that is a valid idea. I could give two sh*ts about Schotty in the long term, or even who we bring in. At the end of the day, to me, all that matters is Sanchez taking the next step. I've seen too many OC's go from genius to idiot and back again depending on the quality of their QB. Im pretty well convinced that the quality of QB is by far the most important factor..

So short of hiring a true luminary like Bill Walsh, which Sparano isn't, then these guys are for the most part interchangeable to me.


I'm far from arguing that Sanchez isn't issue numero uno when it comes to the potential future success of this team, but the entire concept that this fact suddenly excuses the ineptitude of anyone and everyone else is moronic. Outside of some people having this insatiable desire to be able to place all of the team's woes on one single person, so that way the team will be magically fixed with a single change, there's no reality in it whatsoever. Sanchez sucks, and of course that is the team's biggest issue, but that doesn't mean the Jets should keep around every other dipsh*t player, coach, or front office person who has shown beyond any shadow of a doubt that they suck in their own right completely independent of that fact.
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#138 SenorGato

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:10 PM

So no excuses for Schotty this year!


Pretty much.

Edited by SenorGato, 05 May 2012 - 12:10 PM.

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#139 DMaynard

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:27 AM

Horrible read by Sanchez. This has been analyzed before


"read"??? Four of the five receivers did not even run as far as the first down marker. Horrible play design.
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#140 SenorGato

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 11:50 AM

"read"??? Four of the five receivers did not even run as far as the first down marker. Horrible play design.


You know they're allowed to move after the catch, right? It's not Ultimate Frisbee here.

Edited by SenorGato, 06 May 2012 - 11:51 AM.

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