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2016 WS Champions/Cubs Thread


SenorGato

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On 5/24/2016 at 7:31 PM, Tyler Durden said:

yes, unless Heyward wakes up tomorrow and is someone else.. 

Don't want him to be anyone else

He won the hardest fought game the Cubs have had all season today with another component of his game - his arm.

His 2 RBI gave us a 1 run lead rather than a 1 run deficit - but it was in the bottom of the 9th leading by a run 9 to  8 after Rondon had already coughed up a single to Piscotty to lead off the inning, Matt Adams hit another single and the relatively speedy Piscotty started for third till he remembered who's arm he was running on and held at 2. 

It changed everything strategically forcing the Cards to have Molina bunt - something he rarely if ever does and he schwansed 2 try's and struck out.  Piscotty never got past 2nd and Cubs win.

I'l take him, his arm, his 50+ run saving plays over the last 2 seasons, and his .218/.324 in May

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9 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Yeah, this team is going to pile put up runs whether Heyward hits like Heyward or not, but there's no real reason to think his slow start is permanent.

I want Richard out and Chapman in.

Two long term guys I'd target for the rotation are Pomeranz or Daniel Norris. I feel like one of those two guys can/will shake free with my preference being Norris. Norris reads to me like a reverse Rizzo trade candidate where the Cubs swap one of Almora or Contreras. 

If there was an environment for Chapman to get squared away in it would be with Joe and some strong vet and coaching leadership. That plus we really don't have a sh!thead on the roster. Everybody's a pretty solid citizen. Would love Chapman's arm and we're going to need some changes in that pen to go all the way.  

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14 hours ago, NJ said:

If there was an environment for Chapman to get squared away in it would be with Joe and some strong vet and coaching leadership. That plus we really don't have a sh!thead on the roster. Everybody's a pretty solid citizen. Would love Chapman's arm and we're going to need some changes in that pen to go all the way.  

There's always plenty of sh*theads on a baseball roster, but yeah I think the locker room can handle the press that would come with Chapman without a sweat. Might even get to see the facts of the case not get dismissed by the court of public opinion, though that's secondary  to simply becoming a more complete and dominant team.

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16 hours ago, SenorGato said:

There's not even a hint of perhaps about it. You guys won the day last postseason, congrats are in order I guess - even though you couldn't win it all - but the Cubs are better built for the long haul than any franchise out there. That's this year, the rest of the decade, and then into the next.

I hear that Cooperstown is in progress of building a Cubs dynasty wing :)

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2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I hear that Cooperstown is in progress of building a Cubs dynasty wing :)

Hey Dierk - you don't hear me chirping. Not getting ahead of my ski's now or ever with this club.

I have scars dating back to the 25 games attended in 69 and it went downhill, sodomy wise, from there.

I am, however, very happy to watch quality baseball games with my team on the winning end close to 70% of the time for the moment.

Something I'm not used to - but I'm ok with it ;)

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On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 10:30 PM, SenorGato said:

There's not even a hint of perhaps about it. You guys won the day last postseason, congrats are in order I guess - even though you couldn't win it all - but the Cubs are better built for the long haul than any franchise out there. That's this year, the rest of the decade, and then into the next.

Possibly but the Mets young SP's and their closer are much better especially if you are talking about being built for the long haul perspective. They either pay them to stick around long term or get a boat load back in trades.  The Cubs young position players are much better but we know that good pitching usually beats good hitting.  

  The Red Sox young kids don't take a back seat to anyone in baseball at the moment. Betts, Bradley , Bogaerts and Shaw are all already more than flourishing at the Major League level and the Sox are typically not shy about being big players in Free Agency or trades as seen with the Price and Kimbrell acquisitions.

Just because you say the Cubs are better built for the long haul than any team in baseball doesn't make it true.  Enjoy the team but don't be so defensive to others opinions and over the top until you have the actual success to back up your claims.

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5 hours ago, GimmeShelter said:

Possibly but the Mets young SP's and their closer are much better especially if you are talking about being built for the long haul perspective. They either pay them to stick around long term or get a boat load back in trades.  The Cubs young position players are much better but we know that good pitching usually beats good hitting.  

  The Red Sox young kids don't take a back seat to anyone in baseball at the moment. Betts, Bradley , Bogaerts and Shaw are all already more than flourishing at the Major League level and the Sox are typically not shy about being big players in Free Agency or trades as seen with the Price and Kimbrell acquisitions.

Just because you say the Cubs are better built for the long haul than any team in baseball doesn't make it true.  Enjoy the team but don't be so defensive to others opinions and over the top until you have the actual success to back up your claims.

The general rule is there is no such thing as pitchers built for the long haul - they break waaaaaaaay more often than not. Even now only one of your star SPs has avoided being cut open by a blade and missing ~14 months - clock's a'ticking on those arms. The Cubs did the whole pitching thing last decade and it got them 5-6 years of relevance before being forced to go down a completely different path.

I don't feel I'm being defensive at all - you're the guy so hot and bothered about some argument from you guys started last week that you brought it over from another thread. I'm just laying out the realities to you. The Cubs have the best young lineup in baseball, young hitters are way safer and less susceptible to collapse than pitchers, and the Cubs are not even a handful of years away from being the richest team in baseball. There just isn't a better setup out there, the Red Sox can't boast a Kris Bryant, Rizzo's a perennial stud only 26, and guys like Russell and Heyward stack with the Boagerts and Betts of the world. I am, indeed, enjoying the hell out of it and success is more or less inevitable barring completely unforeseeable disasters.

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1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

The general rule is there is no such thing as pitchers built for the long haul - they break waaaaaaaay more often than not. Even now only one of your star SPs has avoided being cut open by a blade and missing ~14 months - clock's a'ticking on those arms. The Cubs did the whole pitching thing last decade and it got them 5-6 years of relevance before being forced to go down a completely different path.

I don't feel I'm being defensive at all - you're the guy so hot and bothered about some argument from you guys started last week that you brought it over from another thread. I'm just laying out the realities to you. The Cubs have the best young lineup in baseball, young hitters are way safer and less susceptible to collapse than pitchers, and the Cubs are not even a handful of years away from being the richest team in baseball. There just isn't a better setup out there, the Red Sox can't boast a Kris Bryant, Rizzo's a perennial stud only 26, and guys like Russell and Heyward stack with the Boagerts and Betts of the world. I am, indeed, enjoying the hell out of it and success is more or less inevitable barring completely unforeseeable disasters.

 

That's the problem. You are making claims not based on reality.

Boagerts is hitting.340 which happens to be 100 points higher than Russell and Heyward cannot carry Mookie Betts jock at the moment. Betts in fact, has similar numbers to Bryant this season.  I will take the Sox young hitters in totality over the Cubs right now until guys like Russell and Baez prove otherwise. Heyward in his current slump can't hold a candle to Bradley, Conforto or any other good young hitter for that matter at the moment.

As for young arms...they may indeed break down but they still are the key to winning more times than not. You saw the importance of upper echelon SP's first hand last year when *your* so called best young line-up in baseball was made to look like a single A team for four straight games. 

The Cubs are good but let's allow them to actually accomplish something more than winning one post season series before crowning them as the inevitable team of the next decade.

We simply disagree which is fine. Hopefully we both get to see what the next step is for our respective teams again come this October.

 

 

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3 hours ago, GimmeShelter said:

 

That's the problem. You are making claims not based on reality.

Boagerts is hitting.340 which happens to be 100 points higher than Russell and Heyward cannot carry Mookie Betts jock at the moment. Betts in fact, has similar numbers to Bryant this season.  I will take the Sox young hitters in totality over the Cubs right now until guys like Russell and Baez prove otherwise. Heyward in his current slump can't hold a candle to Bradley, Conforto or any other good young hitter for that matter at the moment.

As for young arms...they may indeed break down but they still are the key to winning more times than not. You saw the importance of upper echelon SP's first hand last year when *your* so called best young line-up in baseball was made to look like a single A team for four straight games. 

The Cubs are good but let's allow them to actually accomplish something more than winning one post season series before crowning them as the inevitable team of the next decade.

We simply disagree which is fine. Hopefully we both get to see what the next step is for our respective teams again come this October.

Ooooooooooh, sure and fine, the Cubs are currently the third (by RS) or fourth (OPS, wOBA, wRC+) ranked offense right now behind the Red Sox, Cardinals, and Pirates through May 2016. You can have that one since it is literally the only thing that can be read as specifying anything about 2016. You got an easy out and path, due to a blunder of mine, to shifting the whole argument is all.

The Red Sox can have the two months of 2016 award. Right off the bat, they have an 1.100+ OPS 40 YO DH instead of a pitcher in the lineup to inflate that difference. As a team they have a .346 BABIP, completely unsustainable. Boagerts and maybe even JBJ are breakouts, but neither is hitting .340+ with a .400 BABIP every year. Right now everyone but the Cs are hitting at least to their median projection, most are well above that. That can happen to anyone in a given year, so far it's happening for them - may not even hold up all of 2016, let alone 2017 and 2018.

The Cubs are not relying on luck. Most of their lineup is hitting median projections outside of Fowler and Zobrist but overall they are walking more, striking out less, and hitting with more power than in 2015. Given the dramatic shifts in BB, contact, and K rates, the youth in the lineup, and the resumes of the Cubs' young hitters (plus other factors such as fly ball distance, batted ball tendencies) - this is a group that can do what the Red Sox are doing currently in upcoming seasons. *Basically*, what I'm saying is that they are not all in and there is no perhaps about it.

As far as pitching...Currently the Cubs are first ranked by ERA, 4th by FIP, 2nd in K%,6th in K-BB% anyway. They were among the league leaders last year and they've hovered above average or better in these areas since the FO came in. They have consistently shown an ability to identify undervalued arms through both trade and FA. They have the farm system to trade for a young, impact arm now and by the end of the decade will have plenty to spend. It's not so much that the Cubs underestimate the impact of good pitching, it's that the Mets winning a 7 game series once is not grounds for a drastic strategic overhaul. It's still true that young pitchers collapse far more often than young hitters for no apparent reason, one October is what it is. In short - the Cubs are not just all in for 2016, but rather for the next 3-5+, and there is no perhaps about it.

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^^^ Should note that the Pirates also have something like a .340 BABIP. Neither they or the Red Sox will maintain BABIPs that high as a team.

It would be mighty convenient if Willson Contreras can hang as a MLer. I'm not all in yet, but the recent power surge is pretty sexy, including a 2 HR day today.

The AAA prospect in the system I do like, Carl Edwards Jr., is starting to hit his stride as a reliever. He's been a dominant performer throughout the minors with ridiculous K, hit, and HR rates but as a reliever he walked alot of hitters last year. He's walked just 2 in his last 12.1 giving up just 5 hits and striking out 18.

Anyway, it was good for the ML club to believe in themselves and beat up on the Phillies a little.Nice way to walk into the Dodgers series....Heyward in CF today with Baez at 2B and Bryant at 3B...my favorite alignment, though not one I'd like to see too often until Baez is a more sure bat.

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Fair enough, the Cubs were a trash franchise for a long, long time. The Mets fans here need something since, despite fielding a more complete team than last year, they might be on the outside looking in come October. Meanwhile the Cubs still have an outside shot at 116+ victories.

These are more fun:

 

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1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

Fair enough, the Cubs were a trash franchise for a long, long time. The Mets fans here need something since, despite fielding a more complete team than last year, they might be on the outside looking in come October. Meanwhile the Cubs still have an outside shot at 116+ victories.

These are more fun:

 

Congratulations on your May World Series.

Doesn't meant that the Cubs can't win the WS, butt at this time last year, the Cards looked like a lock also. Lots of stuff can happen to any team.

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1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

The Mets fans here need something since, despite fielding a more complete team than last year, they might be on the outside looking in come October

Unlikely that they don't make the post season but crap happens. Based on last October you better hope something derails us unless of course "view from the bleachers" has some stat that shows the Cubs have mastered hitting elite NY Mets pitching.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/2015_NLCS.shtml

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56 minutes ago, GimmeShelter said:

Unlikely that they don't make the post season but crap happens. Based on last October you better hope something derails us unless of course "view from the bleachers" has some stat that shows the Cubs have mastered hitting elite NY Mets pitching.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/2015_NLCS.shtml

I will never base my opinion on one short game series, which is what you mean by last October rather than even all of October. You hang your hat on that as long as it lasts. I'm sure it'll be a great comfort if the Nats, Pirates, Cardinals, Dodgers, and/or Giants keep the Mets out of the playoffs this year.

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Congratulations on your May World Series.

Doesn't meant that the Cubs can't win the WS, butt at this time last year, the Cards looked like a lock also. Lots of stuff can happen to any team.

The 2015 Cardinals weren't even better than the 2015 Cubs really, let alone the 2016 Cubs. Thank you for the congratulations, but the WS is played in October. 

 

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39 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

I will never base my opinion on one short game series, which is what you mean by last October rather than even all of October. You hang your hat on that as long as it lasts. I'm sure it'll be a great comfort if the Nats, Pirates, Cardinals, Dodgers, and/or Giants keep the Mets out of the playoffs this year.

The 2015 Cardinals weren't even better than the 2015 Cubs really, let alone the 2016 Cubs. Thank you for the congratulations, but the WS is played in October. 

 

You were getting cocky because the Cubs had allowed to date a 2.60 ERA.

The Cardinals, through the end of June last year had the same ERA, and had a record of 50-24.

BTW, you are the one that seems to be reminded that the WS is in October/November. 

I understand that your giddiness is that this is the first time that this has happened for you, but don';t get ahead of yourself. Lots of things can happen

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51 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You were getting cocky because the Cubs had allowed to date a 2.60 ERA.

I posted a tweet and made no comment. Rotfl and god damn the Mets fans here are an insufferably sensitive bunch. I don't need to hear that it's May from fans of a team currently cranking it to Rene Rivera.

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On 5/25/2016 at 1:40 PM, SenorGato said:

I want Richard out and Chapman in.

 

Joe channeled his inner Dusty Baker tonight and brought in that crusty sock fk'er Richard to start the 8th because there was 3 lefties coming up in succession.

I shut it off without seeing pitch one as I didn't want to observe that no talent azzwipe violate Jake's previous 7 inning shut out.

Sure nuff - he schwansed it royally and we lost a game we didn't have to. He better be gone soon ..  cut .. DFA... dont care just make him go away

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20 hours ago, GimmeShelter said:

I promise you that no one will ever forget the Mets' epic victory in 2015. It is a series that will live in infamy forever and ever in the whole history of the whole world, no one can take it away. It's definitely a monumental deal, especially since I had to watch you guys dominate the WS and take it all.

17 hours ago, NJ said:

Joe channeled his inner Dusty Baker tonight and brought in that crusty sock fk'er Richard to start the 8th because there was 3 lefties coming up in succession.

I shut it off without seeing pitch one as I didn't want to observe that no talent azzwipe violate Jake's previous 7 inning shut out.

Sure nuff - he schwansed it royally and we lost a game we didn't have to. He better be gone soon ..  cut .. DFA... dont care just make him go away

Yeah - Richard has opened my eyes to this team not even needing a Chapman or Miller - someone like Abad, McGee, maybe Doolittle would do just fine, and Matusz could be a cheap upgrade as a LOOGY this Friday IIRC. Mostly I am just pissed that loss dare to put a dent into the run differential. I shut the game off too.

On the positive front....

- Up until walking the bases loaded that was as good as Arrieta has thrown all year.

- Willson Contreras is looking more and more like he deserves that top catching prospect spot. ~12%/13% BB/K, this year, .987 OPS in AAA, .900+ OPS between AA and AAA this year and last, and already matched last year's HR total. He's basically on the Jorge Posada career path - converted Non-1B IFer lined up to take the full time C job at 26, 5 years after converting. 

- Kris Bryant's K rate is still below the league average and somehow it has mostly flown under the radar (the ****in' Atlantic, of all pubs, just posted a piece on the subject). Dude is worth every bit of the hype and then some. If he had last year's BABIP with this year's periphs we're talking an MVP candidate putting up 8+ WAR.

- On top of being a tippy top tier offense and one of the best pitching teams, these Cubs are also in the conversation for top defense as well. 74% of balls in play turn into outs, tops in the league, and they are first in DRS. 

- On top of having the top C prospect in the minors (no offense to Gary Sanchez, still also the man), the Cubs have a bunch of guys they can trade for pitching like Almora, Torres, Jimenez, Dewees, Happ...without even touching a ML piece like Baez or Soler. I do, OTOH, believe that neither of those guys are particularly good at baseball and are not untouchable. My young SP target lately is Daniel Norris of the Tigers. I'm fine with not paying a huge premium for a more proven arm and gambling a little, Arrieta/Lester/Lackey/Hendricks is fine for October. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Kris Bryant's K rate is still below the league average and somehow it has mostly flown under the radar (the ****in' Atlantic, of all pubs, just posted a piece on the subject). Dude is worth every bit of the hype and then some. If he had last year's BABIP with this year's periphs we're talking an MVP candidate putting up 8+ WAR.

I'll take Mookie Betts over him with 1/3 of the hype.

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1 hour ago, GimmeShelter said:

I'll take Mookie Betts over him with 1/3 of the hype.

I'm sure alot of thought went into this very relevant opinion. Betts is definitely the big obstacle in Bryant's way for the AL MVP moving forward. Probably this fresh opinion/hot take has nothing to do with the week Betts is having that likely just put him on your radar for the first time.

Out of curiosity, you've been poorly attempting to troll this thread for a while now, what's the end game? I indulge because I like talking baseball. Your team won the big forever series last year, why so insecure? 

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25 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

I'm sure alot of thought went into this very relevant opinion. Betts is definitely the big obstacle in Bryant's way for the AL MVP moving forward. Probably this fresh opinion/hot take has nothing to do with the week Betts is having that likely just put him on your radar for the first time.

Out of curiosity, you've been poorly attempting to troll this thread for a while now, what's the end game? I indulge because I like talking baseball. Your team won the big forever series last year, why so insecure? 

You have War on the brain. I spoke of Betts in this very thread....last week. You even responded with all kinds of logic about how the Sox young hitters production being unsustainable while in the same breath claiming the Cubs were getting cheated on balls in play, on cloudy days when the temperature is under 81 degrees or any other stat that aides your Cubs as the next great dynasty nonsense. Try just giving a simple nod to the young Red Sox talent instead. That's the problem with you and why I returned the favor after you first came to the Mets thread gloating over Zobrist and telling us how the Mets arms would break down while the Cubs were set to be major players and spenders for years to come.

Act like you've seen your team have some real success before......even if you haven't.

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55 minutes ago, GimmeShelter said:

You have War on the brain. I spoke of Betts in this very thread....last week. You even responded with all kinds of logic about how the Sox young hitters production being unsustainable while in the same breath claiming the Cubs were getting cheated on balls in play, on cloudy days when the temperature is under 81 degrees or any other stat that aides your Cubs as the next great dynasty nonsense. Try just giving a simple nod to the young Red Sox talent instead. That's the problem with you and why I returned the favor after you first came to the Mets thread gloating over Zobrist and telling us how the Mets arms would break down while the Cubs were set to be major players and spenders for years to come.

Act like you've seen your team have some real success before......even if you haven't.

1 - The Red Sox's team .346 BABIP is unsustainable, there's no question about that. Sorry that is news to you. The Pirates aren't maintaining the .339 BABIP they had/have either.

2 - There were zero claims that the Cubs were getting unlucky on balls in play. Rather the comment was that only a couple guys were getting crazy lucky, whereas the Red Sox's whole starting lineup outside of the Cs were/are putting up crazy BABIPs - several guys in the .400ish range. 

3. Not my fault the Cubs are awesome and nothing wrong with posting about how awesome they are in the Cubs thread. No one has to cater their posts to some butthurt fans of some other team desperately clinging to a 4 game stretch last year while lecturing me about the hubris of my fanhood. It's hypocritical at best.

4 - Simple reading comp skills would have seen the Zobrist post for what it was rather than gloating, but that you're STILL hung up on that like two weeks later only hammers home the pettiness of this troll.

5 - Matz, DeGrom, Harvey, and Wheeler have all gone under the knife already. Harvey and DeGrom have been up and down all year, Wheeler still hasn't returned, Matz has had elbown/forearm stuff this year even still, and even Syndergaard recently got an MRI. I am not going out on weak limb by sayng that pitchers are far more susceptible to attrition than hitters, which is why instead of a competent argument you go for hacky trolling.

6 - Your team has a total of 3 more postseason game wins than the Cubs this decade. You have a legitimate shot at not even going to the playoffs this year while the Cubs are unquestionably the best and most complete team in baseball right now. This is the Cubs thread. Your nonsensical, sanctimonious stance on how to act would maybe be effective if you weren't bragging about one well timed series 8 months ago or hanging out for multiple weeks with the sole purpose of trolling.

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I don't think it is a good thing to not see Kershaw and Maeda this series. Fewer in season looks is advantage to the pitchers come October. I assume the hope is the lineup is so overwhelmingly good and patient that this is negated, but yeah still an edge the Dodgers would have in a more important short series.

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Grimm is the next guy needing to go elsewhere. Not DFA - his stuff is good and when he's on it can be almost electric. 

He just makes too many mistakes and leaves too many balls up. Needs to go to Iowa and pitch in games situations more often and get some instruction on not serving up too many lollies. 

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Honestly, Grimm's a well above average ML reliever, just not an elite guy. 

----

Seems like Almora is getting a callup if Soler goes to the DL. If he does, teams requiring "ML hitting" for pitching just technically got another candidate, yaaaaaay. Hopefully Slappy will be smiled upon by the BABIP Jah. This guy had a 6 week stretch between walks and hasn't homered in even longer at the AAA level, but supposedly has super mega billion plus defense in the OF. The online communty of Cubs fans cannot wait for this guy to be handed a full time job, but I believe Heyward fills the quota on glove first OFers. Wrigley probably has the smallest OF in the league, don't need another glove guy with a significantly lesser bat than Heyward for the long run.

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