Smashmouth Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I have a theory on the lack of sacks from our defensive line. I feel a lot of it has to do with Scheme. The first few years Rex used many different fronts and creative formations to get sacks. Most of which came from LB's Safeties and sometimes corners. This was part of Rex's defensive plan and its hard to tell if he developed this plan due to lack of talent on the Defensive line or if its just the way Rex wanted to coach the defense. No matter which way you look at it I feel this has a negative Impact on the defensive line when it comes to creating pressure on the QB. Using a team like the Giants as an example who come at you with a 4 man rush with an occasional blitz. They have 3 Defensive ends in Tuck Osi and JPP weather they use them all at the same time (which they do from time to time) or rotate them to keep them fresh these guys seem to get it done with a very good success rate. Pass rushers especially DL tend to work offensive lineman during the course of a game. Its like a chess match, they can study their opponents weaknesses and make an effort to exploit them. You can even set up OLmen by not showing them all your moves during a game and do something totally different at a critical stage of the game this is why the great ones always seem to come up with that big sack in the 4th quarter when needed. The reason I bring this up is because it kind of makes my point on why the Jets fail to generate many sacks from the DL. I have seen the Jets front in many different formations sometimes with as few as 2 true defensive lineman on the field sometimes 4 sometimes 3 and a lot of the time they are lined up in different places. I think this takes away from the game within the game played by both lines. Rex is trying to hard to scheme to make plays and his players themsleves are not developing anything during the course of the game. Offensive lines stay the same through out the game your always going up aganist the same 5 guys during the course of a game using a front 4 with more stunts and keeping it simple might actully help these defensive lineman set up their opponents. We could run more stunts and our passrushing lineman can develop their pass rushing skills rather than just be occupiers. With 3 man fronts sacks come from the LB's or Safties and the DLmens job is to occupy blockers with a 4 man front you have so many more options and if you want to blitz you can still get creative with that by confusing the OL with stunts designed to free up blitzing LB's and safties. The key being you keep your front 4 on the field with a light rotation to keep them fresh and those you feel can go every snap just stay in the game. I think this will help our pass rush in a big way. Keep in mind we only had 35 sacks last year and generating pass rush always seems to be a key topic. Since we have not generated any sacks this year and not a ton of pressures either I think maybe its time we utilize what we have drafted for the past two years. Because Like I said during the draft if you take a Coples in the first round you better be able to put in the right defense to utilize that talent otherwise you made a poor decision spending 1 round picks on DLmen that turn out to be glorified occupiers. I certainly did not like seeing Coples standing behind Ryan for most of the snaps last sunday. Sacks are few and far between we dont need our passrushers standing on the sidelines and not staying active especally in todays NFL where everyone passes on any down more so than in years past. Discuss and if you have any ideas on how to get our pass rush going please post your ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 no feedback at all guys ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I have a theory on the lack of sacks from our defensive line. I feel a lot of it has to do with Scheme. The first few years Rex used many different fronts and creative formations to get sacks. Most of which came from LB's Safeties and sometimes corners. This was part of Rex's defensive plan and its hard to tell if he developed this plan due to lack of talent on the Defensive line or if its just the way Rex wanted to coach the defense. No matter which way you look at it I feel this has a negative Impact on the defensive line when it comes to creating pressure on the QB. Using a team like the Giants as an example who come at you with a 4 man rush with an occasional blitz. They have 3 Defensive ends in Tuck Osi and JPP weather they use them all at the same time (which they do from time to time) or rotate them to keep them fresh these guys seem to get it done with a very good success rate. Pass rushers especially DL tend to work offensive lineman during the course of a game. Its like a chess match, they can study their opponents weaknesses and make an effort to exploit them. You can even set up OLmen by not showing them all your moves during a game and do something totally different at a critical stage of the game this is why the great ones always seem to come up with that big sack in the 4th quarter when needed. The reason I bring this up is because it kind of makes my point on why the Jets fail to generate many sacks from the DL. I have seen the Jets front in many different formations sometimes with as few as 2 true defensive lineman on the field sometimes 4 sometimes 3 and a lot of the time they are lined up in different places. I think this takes away from the game within the game played by both lines. Rex is trying to hard to scheme to make plays and his players themsleves are not developing anything during the course of the game. Offensive lines stay the same through out the game your always going up aganist the same 5 guys during the course of a game using a front 4 with more stunts and keeping it simple might actully help these defensive lineman set up their opponents. We could run more stunts and our passrushing lineman can develop their pass rushing skills rather than just be occupiers. With 3 man fronts sacks come from the LB's or Safties and the DLmens job is to occupy blockers with a 4 man front you have so many more options and if you want to blitz you can still get creative with that by confusing the OL with stunts designed to free up blitzing LB's and safties. The key being you keep your front 4 on the field with a light rotation to keep them fresh and those you feel can go every snap just stay in the game. I think this will help our pass rush in a big way. Keep in mind we only had 35 sacks last year and generating pass rush always seems to be a key topic. Since we have not generated any sacks this year and not a ton of pressures either I think maybe its time we utilize what we have drafted for the past two years. Because Like I said during the draft if you take a Coples in the first round you better be able to put in the right defense to utilize that talent otherwise you made a poor decision spending 1 round picks on DLmen that turn out to be glorified occupiers. I certainly did not like seeing Coples standing behind Ryan for most of the snaps last sunday. Sacks are few and far between we dont need our passrushers standing on the sidelines and not staying active especally in todays NFL where everyone passes on any down more so than in years past. Discuss and if you have any ideas on how to get our pass rush going please post your ideas. I think you make some great points. I also think the league figured out his blitz schemes in 2010 and he was getting burnt like crazy. After the pats blowout that year he backed down from the blitz a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 I think you make some great points. I also think the league figured out his blitz schemes in 2010 and he was getting burnt like crazy. After the pats blowout that year he backed down from the blitz a lot. yup I agree and i think thats why he went on a DL binge the past 2 years in the draft. Wilk Ellis and Coples. I think Rex was trying to develop a pass rush with these guys and not have to rely so much on the blitz just like you stated. But these guys are just not getting it done IMO. With the things we have heard about Coples I wonder if they regret the pick, hard to tell with Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 yup I agree and i think thats why he went on a DL binge the past 2 years in the draft. Wilk Ellis and Coples. I think Rex was trying to develop a pass rush with these guys and not have to rely so much on the blitz just like you stated. But these guys are just not getting it done IMO. With the things we have heard about Coples I wonder if they regret the pick, hard to tell with Rex. Completely agree. The thing they need IMO is a true pass rushing OLB. None of the DL guys they drafted are really pass rushers. Couples will be interesting, by all accounts, that was Rex's guy all the way, and there were some very good pass rushers available when they picked. If couples is not very good, the defense could pay the price of that pick for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 the lack of sacks is mostly due to the quality of opposition. the Bills have a system that is based on quick hitting passes. Seriously, look it up Ryan Fitz was one of the least sacked QB's last year. Chan Gailey's system is pure quick hits. meanwhile, Rapeyburger is healthy right now and more or less unsackable. He avoided several clear chances, that's pretty much what he does to every team, leaguewide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 the lack of sacks is mostly due to the quality of opposition. the Bills have a system that is based on quick hitting passes. Seriously, look it up Ryan Fitz was one of the least sacked QB's last year. Chan Gailey's system is pure quick hits. meanwhile, Rapeyburger is healthy right now and more or less unsackable. He avoided several clear chances, that's pretty much what he does to every team, leaguewide. yeah Bit I agree they are two QB's that can be tough to sack but we used a different strategy vs both. Rapist was sacked six times in the previous game right ? Im also talking about the entire time under Rex our DL has not produced many sacks at all. My biggest deal is if you want occupiers like in a 3-4 Im not a big fan of spending first round picks. If you want real passrushers then thats a whole different story and JFtoLong's suggestion of drafting a killer OLB is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 yup I agree and i think thats why he went on a DL binge the past 2 years in the draft. Wilk Ellis and Coples. I think Rex was trying to develop a pass rush with these guys and not have to rely so much on the blitz just like you stated. But these guys are just not getting it done IMO. With the things we have heard about Coples I wonder if they regret the pick, hard to tell with Rex. He hasnt even played 3 games yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 He hasnt even played 3 games yet. Oh here he is , next thing JIF will say is I said Coples sucks. Im not afraid to wonder out loud JIFFY POP. I never hear Rex get on players but he did with this kid and thats a little concerning. It does not mean he sucks and Im not implying he sucks ok just wanted to clear that up before your go looking for a bridge to jump off . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 He hasnt even played 3 games yet. I think you forget where you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Ideas on improving pass rush: Hold off making conclusions after two games in a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I think you forget where you are. Overreactionnation.com? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Overreactionnation.com? If they don't win this Sunday then the already over things are over!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tparich Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I kind of attributed some of the lack of sacks do to the new officiating crew. Not saying that they are any worse but just different. Their threshold before throwing the flag on holding seems to be a bit higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Ideas on improving pass rush: Hold off making conclusions after two games in a season. Ahh I see so the lack of sacks has been an issue for only 2 games ...right Gato ? 99.9 % of my post is based on the overall situation weve been dealing with for years and how we have addressed that situation in the draft. What exactly does my post have to do with the first two games of this season ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 My biggest deal is if you want occupiers like in a 3-4 Im not a big fan of spending first round picks. I dont think Wilk or Coples are strictly occupiers... both had alot of sack production in their college careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I dont think Wilk or Coples are strictly occupiers... both had alot of sack production in their college careers. Yeah but not the scheme is designed so they can't....lollol....Oh man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 I dont think Wilk or Coples are strictly occupiers... both had alot of sack production in their college careers. thats great in a predominant 4-3 defense. But we play a 3-4 where DL do not get a lot of sacks their job is to open things up for LB's and Safties in the box to make plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Yeah but not the scheme is designed so they can't....lollol....Oh man. Im sorry you just dont seem to get it but maybe it would help if 95 % of your posts were not based on sarcasm. I dont even know what the hell your even saying half the time because of it. if you dont understand the job of a lineman in a 3-4 defense as opposed to a 4-3 then please dont contribute to the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangreenman Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I think its definitely scheme related. Look at his D's with the Ravens.... He had a bunch of UDFA's rotating in and out on the line, with one or two solid players. The pressure came from Lewis, Suggs, and the scheme blitzes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Tuck and Osi were drafted two years apart. JPP came 5 years into Tuck's career. Wilkerson (22), Ellis (23? 24?) and Coples (21) are the first of a bunch of new front 7 players that will be added as the years go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Tuck and Osi were drafted two years apart. JPP came 5 years into Tuck's career. Wilkerson (22), Ellis (23? 24?) and Coples (21) are the first of a bunch of new front 7 players that will be added as the years go by. But none of them are true pressure the QB guys, we don't have anyone who can do that and it shows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GandWFan Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Couples is a pressure guy. Also, this is not a Bellichick or Mangini 3-4 where the DL are space eaters. This is a penetation 3-4 DL, plus they are showing a lot of 4-3 fronts with 97 with his hand in the dirt. So basicaly I disagree with your entire premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Couples is a pressure guy. Also, this is not a Bellichick or Mangini 3-4 where the DL are space eaters. This is a penetation 3-4 DL, plus they are showing a lot of 4-3 fronts with 97 with his hand in the dirt. So basicaly I disagree with your entire premise. And how many sacks did our DL have last year and this year ? How many pressures has our DL produced this year ? And why is Coples standing on the sideline behind the coach not getting in for more than half the snaps ? The way Rex ran and continues to run his defense is an should be more focused around the LB's our DL seem to be doing the same thing they have always done occupy and free up lanes for blitzing LB's and Safties. So once again why spend our 3 top picks the last 2 years ALL on Defensive lineman ? The Giants do it because the focal point of their enitre defense is that front 4 they are the key. For the Jets it should be the LB's yet we still have slow pace, scott, and thomas . I would like to see more of Davis next to Harris and Im glad McEntyre is getting more snaps due to injury to Thomas. Wouldnt mind seeing more of Bellore as well if Rex scheme is so great lets get the young fast guys in there . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 yeah Bit I agree they are two QB's that can be tough to sack but we used a different strategy vs both. Rapist was sacked six times in the previous game right ? Yep. We sacked him 3 times though, so it's not like we didn't get to him at all. Also we were without the benefit of the universe's greatest cover corner, which would have allowed us to send even more pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Couples is a pressure guy. Also, this is not a Bellichick or Mangini 3-4 where the DL are space eaters. This is a penetation 3-4 DL, plus they are showing a lot of 4-3 fronts with 97 with his hand in the dirt. So basicaly I disagree with your entire premise. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 d line sux rex sux tanny sux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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