Integrity28 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 He brought in guys that LOVED football. Over the past couple weeks I've been trying to express my anger with what I view as the fundamental problem with this team and franchise, it's achilles heel if you will. I've talked about them being "soft" but I've not really put my finger on what I even meant by that. To clarify that thought, I think I've come to a more concise and acceptable realization. This franchise routinely rosters players that - while talented - unselfishness, lack commitment, mental toughness and work ethic. This is not to imply that all of the Jets don't possess these qualities, but enough of them don't where it has become a detriment and the lack of really giving a sh*t has become pervasive. We are one of those teams that has guys that do just enough, flashes of brilliance over-shadowed by gutless and/or boneheaded football. They don't really go above and beyond. When the going gets tough, they curl up in a ball. How many Jets teams in the past decade have we seen quit on their coach now? Mangini's last year. Rex's 3rd season. I feel like Herm's final year too. That's not coincidence... it's more like an epidemic. As much as I disliked Mangini as our coach, he did have his priorities right in this regard. Look at the great franchises in this league, they've found a way to marry together commitment with talent. The systematic results don't lie. The Jets have historically been enticed by measurables, not heart. Mangini went all in on heart, and along the way nabbed some talent too. Since Rex has been here, the focus has been predominantly placed on selfish, flashy players. Look at where that has gotten us. Flame away... lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Mangini did have it right. Great thread. His philosophy is spreading like wild fire around the league and he's a top notch Head Coach. His team puts it all on the line week in week out. Nothing but success follows Eric Mangini. Choir boys + <3'ing Football = NFL dominance. Stupid Jets cant get anything right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Mangini did have it right. Great thread. His philosophy is spreading like wild fire around the league and he's a top notch Head Coach. His team puts it all on the line week in week out. Nothing but success follows Eric Mangini. Choir boys + <3'ing Football = NFL dominance. Stupid Jets cant get anything right. It's okay JIF, you are the last person I expected to comprehend this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Mangini did have it right. Great thread. His philosophy is spreading like wild fire around the league and he's a top notch Head Coach. His team puts it all on the line week in week out. Nothing but success follows Eric Mangini. Choir boys + <3'ing Football = NFL dominance. Stupid Jets cant get anything right. Give it a few years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Lolololololol When Mangini is here: What an idiot, all he wants is choir boys like the Boat Hunter. Rex's team sits at 2-2 through four, 4 years after Mangini: DUUUUUUUUUDE that Mangini was onto somethin'. Also: This thread should really be titled; "Nobody is responding to my posts anymore so maybe if I just start a new thread people will finally listen to my tired, whimsical, and erroneous schtick." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 This thread should really be titled; "Nobody is responding to my posts anymore so maybe if I just start a new thread people will finally listen to my tired, whimsical, and erroneous schtick." Dead to rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsouth Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 What is ironic is that one of footballs *lion hearts* is on this team.. , however, I have noticed the same thing throughout the league.. I have a slightly different take on it though.. Hopefully this won't be TL DR. A lot of these players, and playas , have never had anything to speak of in their lives.. Sure, we have all had it tough in' one way or another, some more than others.. But a huge number of these guys don't really know anything other than they were sh*t on the earth, and someone stuck a football in their hands. So, when they grow up a little bit, and start checking the world out, they have all this money.. and all the trappings and THEN they are expected to put all that aside and focus on playing the game.. With a little imagination maybe you can see where I am going with this. You take a kid who has learned a little more about what is expected from an individual who has something to lose, something to gain, the meaning of the word "earned" , the meaning of the words "self centered" , etc.. and they will do far better with fame, game , and fortune than a kid who has never been to the beach, never driven a new car, or even ridden in one for that matter.. I guess I am saying that a lot of these players get off track ..so to speak, (they never even knew what the wrong track and the right track was) and then you have wasted talent like TO, Chad and such.. I think a lot of these players that "don't love football" as much as the player "that loves football" are just letting their heads ruin their game... I have supervised people who were great employees until you gave them the foreman job, or until you gave them a sizable raise/promotion.. nothing worse than someone who thinks they have "arrived" .. I would rather have four novice hungry workers than one big head proficient worker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Lolololololol When Mangini is here: What an idiot, all he wants is choir boys like the Boat Hunter. Rex's team sits at 2-2 through four, 4 years after Mangini: DUUUUUUUUUDE that Mangini was onto somethin'. Also: This thread should really be titled; "Nobody is responding to my posts anymore so maybe if I just start a new thread people will finally listen to my tired, whimsical, and erroneous schtick." Dead to rights. You guys give me too much credit. Honestly, I was just thinking about it on my way to work this morning... and made a thread. If it comes across as "I need attention" then that's unfortunate. It is not my intent. Anyway, back on subject - I hated Mangini, NOT because of how he drafted though. I understood his philosophy on getting guys that lived and breathed football. I just didn't think you had to forgo talent in order to achieve that, and there were times Mangini did this. Mostly though, he did a good job coupling talent with motivation. I sincerely think Mangini would be a good scout. Moreso than the guys we have doing that job for us right now. The big miss was obviously Gholston, but for the most part we brought in talented players with high levels of commitment under Mangini. He just wasn't a good coach. Scouting and building a team is different than coaching. In Rex's tenure, there has been a blatant disregard for guys that love the game. We've brought in turds like Holmes and Plax who have clearly had a negative impact on this team's culture and development, especially since it's such a young team. I would hope at some point, we can hire a GM that understands where the sweet spot is amongst commitment, motivation and talent. I feel like with the past 2 coaches influencing Tannenderp, we've sort of gone from one extreme to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 nothing worse than someone who thinks they have "arrived" .. I would rather have four novice hungry workers than one big head proficient worker... Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 tl;dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOJOTOWNSELL Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 it does show the utter lack of consistency under Mike T......"lets get nothing but high character, choir boys for a few years"......"oh, that didn't work?? ok lets bring in anyone now." Mike T has been here since Parcells....why exactly?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Anthony Schlegel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Anthony Schlegel Kimo von Oelhoffen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 it does show the utter lack of consistency under Mike T......"lets get nothing but high character, choir boys for a few years"......"oh, that didn't work?? ok lets bring in anyone now." He's perfectly consistent in that he farms out scouting duties to his coaches. The second he was promoted past the accounting dept., he became useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Anthony Schlegel I guess I'd rather they draft a miss because he loves football but doesn't have talent, rather than draft a miss because he doesn't have talent or commitment, or does have talent and doesn't care about the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 He's perfectly consistent in that he farms out scouting duties to his coaches. The second he was promoted past the accounting dept., he became useless. Absolutely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsouth Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I would hope at some point, we can hire a GM that understands where the sweet spot is amongst commitment, motivation and talent. Yep, and start by not listening to the candidate.. watch him. I noticed that all the rookies and "I wanna be in the NFL" players all have the same schtick.. spare me. Show me something... don't tell me how special you are.. don't tell me about 110%, show me 110%. What happened to guys that played with broken bones ? It used to be normal..bloody noses, not like the scrapes and scratches these guys come out of the game for these days.. Bring back Lambert, and Too Tall.. ditka.. thats football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsouth Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 They should pay all the rookies 100 k a year until they make starter.. if they aren't on the starting squad, they don't get the big bucks. Then we would probably find out who has heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Give it a few years! Its a process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Anthony Schlegel Kimo von Oelhoffen Kenyon Coleman. Brett Ratliff. Abram Elam. Jason Trusnik. Eric Barton. Hank Poteat. CJ Mosley. Chansi Stuckey. Those guys are responsible for that incredible turnaround Mangini performed in Cleveland and we let them slip away for NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Its a process. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 tl;dr Geez, I haven't even had a chance to post yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 The truth is, the reality is somewhere in the middle. Both of them took their philosophies to the extremes, and neither worked because of it. While there was certainly some talent, Mangini also filled up this roster with some uselessly talentless players who, as nice guys as they may have been, weren't worth a damn on a football field. Rex on the other hand, looked strictly at ability (not even actual production coming from that ability) and worried about nothing else. That's how you end up with an offseason that features an extension of Holmes along with the free agent additions of Burress and Mason. Go figure that one didn't work out. While it's not a bad idea to have a couple of those choir-boys around, and you can get away with having a few of those high-talent players with a bad attitude, you want most of your guys to be somewhat a mix of the two. While the Jets still have a few of those types of guys, the number seems to be dwindling further by the year. It's one of many reasons that, as already has been alluded to, the Jets need a GM who will be doing that work himself, and not just going along with whatever his head coach tells him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 it does show the utter lack of consistency under Mike T......"lets get nothing but high character, choir boys for a few years"......"oh, that didn't work?? ok lets bring in anyone now." Mike T has been here since Parcells....why exactly?? Agree What better proof could you need that Tannenbaum is in over his head? You have one philosophy. Change coaches and now team is full of scumbags. Proof right there that coaches and scouts pulling the strings or even the owner. But no consistency in style from our sixth season GM. Guy should be out on his ass already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 The truth is, the reality is somewhere in the middle. Both of them took their philosophies to the extremes, and neither worked because of it. While there was certainly some talent, Mangini also filled up this roster with some uselessly talentless players who, as nice guys as they may have been, weren't worth a damn on a football field. Rex on the other hand, looked strictly at ability (not even actual production coming from that ability) and worried about nothing else. That's how you end up with an offseason that features an extension of Holmes along with the free agent additions of Burress and Mason. Go figure that one didn't work out. While it's not a bad idea to have a couple of those choir-boys around, and you can get away with having a few of those high-talent players with a bad attitude, you want most of your guys to be somewhat a mix of the two. While the Jets still have a few of those types of guys, the number seems to be dwindling further by the year. It's one of many reasons that, as already has been alluded to, the Jets need a GM who will be doing that work himself, and not just going along with whatever his head coach tells him. Pretty much my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Also, I legitimately think that the addition of Tebow was 1 part over-reaction to him drubbing us and the Steelers last year.. and 1 part over-reaction for the disharmony created by a lockerroom full of scumbags like Holmes and Plax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Good post. The real crime, as you allude to, was his insistence on disqualifying guys over character issues. Every winning team has 3-4 guys on it that belong in a psych prison. The trick is in keeping the rest of the locker room solid enough that your few psychopaths are sufficiently marginalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Good post. The real crime, as you allude to, was his insistence on disqualifying guys over character issues. Every winning team has 3-4 guys on it that belong in a psych prison. The trick is in keeping the rest of the locker room solid enough that your few psychopaths are sufficiently marginalized. I think Mangini understood what personality traits to look for to root out true work ethic, commitment, and overwhelming passion. I DON'T think Mangini knew how to identify talent... and since Tanny clearly puts it on the coaches, well the rest is history. With Rex, I'm not sure he's got an eye for talent or for work ethic. He seems to be so arrogant to think the knows all he needs to know about a player that he would invest in them after watching one game, or one hightlight. Case in point, his evaluation of Plaxico, his evaluation of John Conner, Tebow... Holmes. He has a very superficial level of player analysis and it seems lost on him how to build a team. At the end of the day this falls at the feet of the GM. He should be doing this evaluating, for talent and for character. Let the coaches coach. Mangini wasn't a great coach, Rex has a pretty high ceiling though... but I fear his time with the Jets will be cut short as a result of his over-involvement in building the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Pretty much my point. Well then, I suppose we agree. Of course, simply writing that wouldn't have fulfilled the minimum requirements for a BG post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Good post. The real crime, as you allude to, was his insistence on disqualifying guys over character issues. Every winning team has 3-4 guys on it that belong in a psych prison. The trick is in keeping the rest of the locker room solid enough that your few psychopaths are sufficiently marginalized. What happens when one of your allotted psychopaths is the teams de facto spiritual leader as well? Does Ray ray allow you to have a few additional d-block guys? Is it like a credit system? I'm not sure, but I'm thinking we really missed the boat on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 What happens when one of your allotted psychopaths is the teams de facto spiritual leader as well? playoffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Well then, I suppose we agree. Of course, simply writing that wouldn't have fulfilled the minimum requirements for a BG post. It's alright, you helped better make my point. Something I'm not sure I'm doing so well lately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think Mangini understood what personality traits to look for to root out true work ethic, commitment, and overwhelming passion. I DON'T think Mangini knew how to identify talent Eh. In the last eight drafts, the five best picks made by the Jets were under Mangini's watch: Revis, Mangold, Brick, Harris, Pouha. The best player Rex drafted was probably, who, Kerley? Maybe Wilkerson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo83 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think it's funny how much Mangini is being brought up lately. Everybody was calling for his head in 2008, now we gave up a good thing? SMH. Gholston, the boar hunter, Schotty, Pete Kendall fiasco to name a few things off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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