2788 replies to this topic

[RutgersJetFan]

You're just totes jelly of his boats and hoes.

Are bonita fish big?

[dbatesman]

Are bonita fish big?

This is Galco, which is Hebrew for "kindness."

[billybroome]

I just don't understand why the Jets brass continue to support Sanchez as the starting QB. It's not like this would be the first time in the history of the NFL that a QB drafted in the first round turned out to be a bust.

Try a Trojan QB drafted #1 overall, then decides to quit. USC QB's suck balls. I know.

[SMC]

Sperm makes the point that Sanchez is awful and always was going to be awful, but while I agree with the first part I disagree with the second, but it's not really worth debating.

Historically speaking, QBs in similar situations who bust do so because of injury or being a "bad apple." Sanchez being this bad is pretty unprecedented because he has only missed 1 game in 4 years, and is not considered a bad guy. He just sucks and it can possibly be due to intelligence.

Yes, he got a 28 in the wonderlic, but that isn't really a barometer of intelligence. He just makes too many stupid decision on the football field and in real life. He makes boneheaded decisions nearly every week. He dated a 17 year old. He brought a script to a postgame interview. He wears Uggs. Men of a right mind don't make Sanchez-esque mistakes.

[HDKostempski]

Sperm makes the point that Sanchez is awful and always was going to be awful, but while I agree with the first part I disagree with the second, but it's not really worth debating.

Historically speaking, QBs in similar situations who bust do so because of injury or being a "bad apple." Sanchez being this bad is pretty unprecedented because he has only missed 1 game in 4 years, and is not considered a bad guy. He just sucks and it can possibly be due to intelligence.

Yes, he got a 28 in the wonderlic, but that isn't really a barometer of intelligence. He just makes too many stupid decision on the football field and in real life. He makes boneheaded decisions nearly every week. He dated a 17 year old. He brought a script to a postgame interview. He wears Uggs. Men of a right mind don't make Sanchez-esque mistakes.

I think that the bolded part is NOT true, particularly since about 50% of first round QBs fail.

I think that you are right that it's a problem between the ears, but it's NOT about intelligence per se. It's about perception and information processing. Guys like Byron Leftwich, Jason Campbell, and JP Losman are busts for the same reason that Sanchez is: they cannot see and process what they see on the field quickly and accurately, which leads to INTs, incompletions, and what we generally call "bad decisions".

They aren't bad actors and they aren't stupid. It's just that they are lacking this ability which is really necessary,for NFL QBs to have, but which can't really be detected until after a QB has been playing for a while, and I think this is the biggest reasons that first rounders fail.

[SMC]

I think that the bolded part is NOT true, particularly since about 50% of first round QBs fail.

I think that you are right that it's a problem between the ears, but it's NOT about intelligence per se. It's about perception and information processing. Guys like Byron Leftwich, Jason Campbell, and JP Losman are busts for the same reason that Sanchez is: they cannot see and process what they see on the field quickly and accurately, which leads to INTs, incompletions, and what we generally call "bad decisions".

They aren't bad actors and they aren't stupid. It's just that they are lacking this ability which is really necessary,for NFL QBs to have, but which can't really be detected until after a QB has been playing for a while, and I think this is the biggest reasons that first rounders fail.

Good points, but I when I was referring to QBs similarly situated, I was referring to QBs drafted around when Sanchez was drafted, i.e., top 10, top 5. That sorta thing. I don't think it's relevant to the situation whether a QB drafted, say, 21 busted compared to a top 5 pick. So Leftwich, Campbell and Losman are not applicable to this discussion.

Now, if you're saying that Sanchez shouldve been drafted where those QBs were then that is a different discussion and not one that I can say I would disagree with.

[Sperm Edwards]

Sperm makes the point that Sanchez is awful and always was going to be awful, but while I agree with the first part I disagree with the second, but it's not really worth debating.

Historically speaking, QBs in similar situations who bust do so because of injury or being a "bad apple." Sanchez being this bad is pretty unprecedented because he has only missed 1 game in 4 years, and is not considered a bad guy. He just sucks and it can possibly be due to intelligence.

Yes, he got a 28 in the wonderlic, but that isn't really a barometer of intelligence. He just makes too many stupid decision on the football field and in real life. He makes boneheaded decisions nearly every week. He dated a 17 year old. He brought a script to a postgame interview. He wears Uggs. Men of a right mind don't make Sanchez-esque mistakes.

Donovan McNabb isn't even half as smart as Sanchez but as HDKostempski points out it's how fast you can process what you see and how quickly you can (instinctively) do the right thing. Sanchez is slow to process everything. Even on completed passes he's often a second late and a mere completion (even if his throw is somehow on the money) that could go for an extra 5 (or 30) yards doesn't.

It has nothing to do with Wonderlic scores or arm strength or height or the compactness of throwing motion. He scores just fine on all those measurables (despite some claims that he needs to be a couple of inches taller or his arm needs to be a bit stronger, which is silly). Physically he looks the part and theoretically could be elite. That's why he was drafted so high. Unfortunately he also has Mark Sanchez's slow brain and poor on-the-fly judgment and decision-making attached to Mark Sanchez's body. To compound that problem, he also mopes and sulks like a little baby when this team (badly) needs him to be a leader they can look up to.

It is not fixable to the point that we (or anyone would) need. I have no doubt that it would still improve some with more years of experience but he will never improve enough. He doesn't have it in him. He was never going to be a good, even if - like many busts - he was and is capable of having a good game here & there.

Now could he have been a better under ideal coaching with superfreak receivers? Undoubtedly. Would he be better this season under those ideal conditions? Undoubtedly. But I'm sure we could say that about a whole mess of crappy QBs who any number of Sanchez-lovers readily mock or criticize even though many are and have been better than the object of their affection. Plus if the Jets actually could assemble that together, what the hell do they need Sanchez for? Why waste all that on a stiff like him? It still wouldn't be enough, we can do a whole lot better, and frankly most teams have better every single season.

[JFtoLong]

Donovan McNabb isn't even half as smart as Sanchez but as HDKostempski points out it's how fast you can process what you see and how quickly you can (instinctively) do the right thing. Sanchez is slow to process everything. Even on completed passes he's often a second late and a mere completion (even if his throw is somehow on the money) that could go for an extra 5 (or 30) yards doesn't.

It has nothing to do with Wonderlic scores or arm strength or height or the compactness of throwing motion. He scores just fine on all those measurables (despite some claims that he needs to be a couple of inches taller or his arm needs to be a bit stronger, which is silly). Physically he looks the part and theoretically could be elite. That's why he was drafted so high. Unfortunately he also has Mark Sanchez's slow brain and poor on-the-fly judgment and decision-making attached to Mark Sanchez's body. To compound that problem, he also mopes and sulks like a little baby when this team (badly) needs him to be a leader they can look up to.

It is not fixable to the point that we (or anyone would) need. I have no doubt that it would still improve some with more years of experience but he will never improve enough. He doesn't have it in him. He was never going to be a good, even if - like many busts - he was and is capable of having a good game here & there.

Now could he have been a better under ideal coaching with superfreak receivers? Undoubtedly. Would he be better this season under those ideal conditions? Undoubtedly. But I'm sure we could say that about a whole mess of crappy QBs who any number of Sanchez-lovers readily mock or criticize even though many are and have been better than the object of their affection. Plus if the Jets actually could assemble that together, what the hell do they need Sanchez for? Why waste all that on a stiff like him? It still wouldn't be enough, we can do a whole lot better, and frankly most teams have better every single season.

While I agree with a lot of what you say, I cannot say that I agree with your assessment of blaming him for his ability to process.

Everyone said this about Vinny for years, they said he was the physical ideal of a QB, not dumb, but could not process the game as he played.

Vinny was so much more prepared for the NFL coming out of college than Sanchez was, not even close.

It took Vinny half his career to be able to play consistently at an even acceptable level.

It turned out that he was never thought how to properly read defenses, and watch film until Bellicheck tought him in Cleveland.

I am not saying that is the case for Sanchez, I simply don't know.

What I do know is I have zero confidence in any of the people who were developing him, zero.

Some guys click later than others, in today's NFL, Terry Bradway never would have lasted as long, and would have been considered a colossal bust way before he clicked and became a HOF QB.

Some guys Get it right away, some take much longer, some never get it.

BUT, Sanchez was as raw as it gets coming out of school, and IMO, should not even have been playing until last year at the earliest, maybe even this year, he is 25 now.

At this point I am pretty sure he is shot, at least with the Jets, and the Jets need to move on, but I don't agree with the statements that he never was.

Nobody will ever know that, it was a case study on how not to develop a QB, and anyone disagreeing with that just does not understand football, sorry if that offends people, but it's the truth.

It's all opinion one way or another, which is fine, but I am entitled to my opinion just as you are, and neither of us can ever really be proven right.

It's still a moot point, because he is done here.

The bigger issue is we cannot let these same morons ruin another QB, I am getting to old for this crap year after year.

Edited by JFtoLong, 24 November 2012 - 11:38 AM.

[JiF]

Historically speaking, QBs in similar situations who bust do so because of injury or being a "bad apple."

Plenty good guys who sucked too. Junior Qb's just rarely work out. Especially inexperienced ones and Mark was one of the least experienced I can remember in a long time.

[Larz]

thanks to sanchez I couldn't bear to wear a jets hat in public today

crappy thanksgiving !!!!

[HessStation]

Plenty good guys who sucked too. Junior Qb's just rarely work out. Especially inexperienced ones and Mark was one of the least experienced I can remember in a long time.

he passed the Mex Ryanbaum eye test though.

Edited by HessStation, 24 November 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Sperm Edwards]

While I agree with a lot of what you say, I cannot say that I agree with your assessment of blaming him for his ability to process.

Everyone said this about Vinny for years, they said he was the physical ideal of a QB, not dumb, but could not process the game as he played.

Vinny was so much more prepared for the NFL coming out of college than Sanchez was, not even close.

It took Vinny half his career to be able to play consistently at an even acceptable level.

It turned out that he was never thought how to properly read defenses, and watch film until Bellicheck tought him in Cleveland.

I am not saying that is the case for Sanchez, I simply don't know.

What I do know is I have zero confidence in any of the people who were developing him, zero.

Some guys click later than others, in today's NFL, Terry Bradway never would have lasted as long, and would have been considered a colossal bust way before he clicked and became a HOF QB.

Some guys Get it right away, some take much longer, some never get it.

BUT, Sanchez was as raw as it gets coming out of school, and IMO, should not even have been playing until last year at the earliest, maybe even this year, he is 25 now.

At this point I am pretty sure he is shot, at least with the Jets, and the Jets need to move on, but I don't agree with the statements that he never was.

Nobody will ever know that, it was a case study on how not to develop a QB, and anyone disagreeing with that just does not understand football, sorry if that offends people, but it's the truth.

It's all opinion one way or another, which is fine, but I am entitled to my opinion just as you are, and neither of us can ever really be proven right.

It's still a moot point, because he is done here.

The bigger issue is we cannot let these same morons ruin another QB, I am getting to old for this crap year after year.

I hate him because he sucks and his sucking is bad for the team I root for. And it's not like other positions where we also have high-priced players who suck (though I'm no fan of them either). The reason Sanchez sticks out more is because, ther than maybe offensive linemen, it's the one position a coach - a sane coach - doesn't rotate on & off the field multiple times every week.

I agree to an extent as to the lack of trust in their QB know-how. But it's that I don't trust their judgment as to who is and who is not a good QB prospect or acquisition.

Sanchez
Clemens
Ainge
Tebow
Ramsey
Brunell
And McElroy must be physically incapable of throwing a regulation-sized football if they won't even make him active when Tebow - who sucks anyway - has 2 busted ribs that stop him from being able to throw, and with the Jets trotting out the worst starting QB this side of Blaine Gabbert. So McElroy's so bad he can't take a single snap no matter how laughably awful the QB play is from Sanchez & Tebow, yet they keep him around for 2 years.

What a clusterf*ck of garbage.

The other QB they acquired since Tannenbaum became the GM was Brett Favre. Didn't exactly need to scout him, though.

[afosomf]

I hate him because he sucks and his sucking is bad for the team I root for. And it's not like other positions where we also have high-priced players who suck (though I'm no fan of them either). The reason Sanchez sticks out more is because, ther than maybe offensive linemen, it's the one position a coach - a sane coach - doesn't rotate on & off the field multiple times every week.

I agree to an extent as to the lack of trust in their QB know-how. But it's that I don't trust their judgment as to who is and who is not a good QB prospect or acquisition.

Sanchez
Clemens
Ainge
Tebow
Ramsey
Brunell
And McElroy must be physically incapable of throwing a regulation-sized football if they won't even make him active when Tebow - who sucks anyway - has 2 busted ribs that stop him from being able to throw, and with the Jets trotting out the worst starting QB this side of Blaine Gabbert. So McElroy's so bad he can't take a single snap no matter how laughably awful the QB play is from Sanchez & Tebow, yet they keep him around for 2 years.

What a clusterf*ck of garbage.

The other QB they acquired since Tannenbaum became the GM was Brett Favre. Didn't exactly need to scout him, though.

sperm if GMAC outplays sanchez rex will have to answer why he didnt pull plug on nacho much earlier. he is also holding a grudge on his prior comments. GMAC will never see the field. makes
you wonder why they didnt cut the kid and keep stanton

[JFtoLong]

I hate him because he sucks and his sucking is bad for the team I root for. And it's not like other positions where we also have high-priced players who suck (though I'm no fan of them either). The reason Sanchez sticks out more is because, ther than maybe offensive linemen, it's the one position a coach - a sane coach - doesn't rotate on & off the field multiple times every week.

I agree to an extent as to the lack of trust in their QB know-how. But it's that I don't trust their judgment as to who is and who is not a good QB prospect or acquisition.

Sanchez
Clemens
Ainge
Tebow
Ramsey
Brunell
And McElroy must be physically incapable of throwing a regulation-sized football if they won't even make him active when Tebow - who sucks anyway - has 2 busted ribs that stop him from being able to throw, and with the Jets trotting out the worst starting QB this side of Blaine Gabbert. So McElroy's so bad he can't take a single snap no matter how laughably awful the QB play is from Sanchez & Tebow, yet they keep him around for 2 years.

What a clusterf*ck of garbage.

The other QB they acquired since Tannenbaum became the GM was Brett Favre. Didn't exactly need to scout him, though.

Clemens ans Sanchez had top two round grades, they developed to both suck.

Whether that was scouting, coaching or some combo of, it does not really matter, result is the same.

I think it's both scouting and coaching personnaly.

When Rex shoots for a ground and pound offense in today's NFL, it tells you he does not priorotize offensive firepower, hence the hiring of Sparano who was never thought of to be a good offensive mind, and definitely not a passing game mind.

Rex is trying to swim upstream with his philosophy, I want no part of him or Tanny or Sparano drafting or developing the next QB for this team, none.

[tEYbow]

Sanchez and Clemens both also had in common being undersized and limited experience (16 starts & foot injury, respectively)

[RutgersJetFan]

Sanchez and Clemens both also had in common being undersized and limited experience (16 starts & foot injury, respectively)

My powers of deduction tell me this may be a sign that the Jets should henceforth look for QB's who have experience and are of normal size.

[T0mShane]

Sanchez and Clemens both also had in common being undersized and limited experience (16 starts & foot injury, respectively)

I was watching Matt Barkley on the sideline last night--injured, skinny, goofing around, with that average arm--thinking how inevitable it is that he'll be sitting on the board when the Jets pick, and me, in a bar, the whiskey starting to climb back up my esophagus.

[T0mShane]

My powers of deduction tell me this may be a sign that the Jets should henceforth look for QB's who have experience and are of normal size.

JOHN FOOTBALL

[Matt39]

I was watching Matt Barkley on the sideline last night--injured, skinny, goofing around, with that average arm--thinking how inevitable it is that he'll be sitting on the board when the Jets pick, and me, in a bar, the whiskey starting to climb back up my esophagus.

Or a slow Samoan linebacker who plays with "heart" and "fire"

[T0mShane]

Or a slow Samoan linebacker who plays with "heart" and "fire"

Grit should get you drafted top ten/