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Jetfan13

Sanchez's stats with and without Holmes.

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Jetfan13    40,963

With Holmes:

63 of 128, 49%, 813 yds, 5 TD's, 4 Int's

Without Holmes:

53 of 90, 59%, 640 yds, 4 TD's, 3 Int's

Just saying

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bitonti    36,751

also looking at the numbers, he has more TD INT and yards with holmes. higher comp % without. More TD and yards is a good thing. the math isn't all that overpowering.

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SMC    90,190

With Holmes:

63 of 128, 49%, 813 yds, 5 TD's, 4 Int's

Without Holmes:

53 of 90, 59%, 640 yds, 4 TD's, 3 Int's

Just saying

Passer rating of 69.5 with Holmes and 81.7 without him, still low, but demonstrably better.

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SMC    90,190

also looking at the numbers, he has more TD INT and yards with holmes. higher comp % without. More TD and yards is a good thing. the math isn't all that overpowering.

But couldn't that be because there are 38 more attempts with Holmes than without?

In other words, with 38 fewer attempts he has 1 less TD (but also 1 less INT) and 173 fewer yards. With Holmes Sanchez is 6.35 yards per attempt but without him he is 7.1 yards per attempt. With the same yards per attempt that would be 269 extra yards. Even with the lower attempt average, that 241 extra yards.

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whodeawhodat    750

I just dont get the feeling that we are struggling on offense without holmes. Last year it felt like 1st and 10 was ten miles long. Now, I am pretty confident that we wont go 3 and out unless we get lucky. Then again we dont have dipsh*t #1 and dipsh*t #2 committing holding penalties on every drive. So it may or may not be because of holmes BUT we definately arent worse off without him.

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pointman    1,571

Numbers are just that. Obviously they don't show the intangibles like how satisfying warm chocolate chips cookies are and how bad Sanchez sucks.

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#27TheDominator    203,589

I just dont get the feeling that we are struggling on offense without holmes. Last year it felt like 1st and 10 was ten miles long. Now, I am pretty confident that we wont go 3 and out unless we get lucky. Then again we dont have dipsh*t #1 and dipsh*t #2 committing holding penalties on every drive. So it may or may not be because of holmes BUT we definately arent worse off without him.

That's funny. I am not ready to kill Sparano yet, but against Pittsburgh and San Francisco I have felt as bad about this offense as I ever have. OTOH, I guess those were both with Santonio.

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slats    96,062

And in the fourth year of Sanchez, the Jets are finally developing young WRs. Kerley looks like the real deal.

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Smashmouth    10,784

Problem you have is the time without Keller overlaps and makes this pointless.

The problem you have is anything that shows a positive effect on Sanchez is not worth discussing. Now hear me out...

If the Jets dump Holmes (if in any way possible) in the offseason and bring in a guy like Greg Jennings (possible Free Agent) to go with Kerly and Stephen Hill and add a Solid RB in the draft this team would improve ten fold on Offense. If at that point Sanchez can not perform up to expectations then we move him and draft a QB in the 2014 Draft. At the very least the new QB coming in will have some talent around him to work with and grow with Since Kerley and Hill are very young and seem to have promising futures and Jennings would bring stability.

Since Sanchez is already guaranteed the money for next year this is the only scenario that makes any sense. But Unlike the Jets the Packers are not stupid and they will probably not let Aaron Rodgers best Receiver just move on without a fight. If its a true money issue, they may have to let Jennings go because they do have some holes that need to be Addressed and they can probably bring in a Rookie Receiver and be just fine with Rodgers at QB and an already very established offense.

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Thruoughout his career Holmes has only caught 55% of throws he is targeted on. Not some of that could be great play by DB's but dropsies also are part of that equation.

What you see is the completion percentage goes up significantly higher when Holmes and his drops are not part of the equation.

But the TD/INT ration did not change much.

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Jetfan13    40,963

Problem you have is the time without Keller overlaps and makes this pointless.

So in other words when Holmes is playing without Keller Sanchez plays worse then when Keller plays without Holmes....thanx for making my point.

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The Crusher    188,870

The problem you have is anything that shows a positive effect on Sanchez is not worth discussing. Now hear me out...

If the Jets dump Holmes (if in any way possible) in the offseason and bring in a guy like Greg Jennings (possible Free Agent) to go with Kerly and Stephen Hill and add a Solid RB in the draft this team would improve ten fold on Offense. If at that point Sanchez can not perform up to expectations then we move him and draft a QB in the 2014 Draft. At the very least the new QB coming in will have some talent around him to work with and grow with Since Kerley and Hill are very young and seem to have promising futures and Jennings would bring stability.

Since Sanchez is already guaranteed the money for next year this is the only scenario that makes any sense. But Unlike the Jets the Packers are not stupid and they will probably not let Aaron Rodgers best Receiver just move on without a fight. If its a true money issue, they may have to let Jennings go because they do have some holes that need to be Addressed and they can probably bring in a Rookie Receiver and be just fine with Rodgers at QB and an already very established offense.

Yeah and when he still sucks we will be told it's because of a lack of continuity among his receivers. We are stuck another year with him. STUCK STUCK STUCK

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The Crusher    188,870

So in other words when Holmes is playing without Keller Sanchez plays worse then when Keller plays without Holmes....thanx for making my point.

My point is it's another variable that will effect the outcome. But I'm happy if your happy.

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Klecko73isGod    123,121

The problem you have is anything that shows a positive effect on Sanchez is not worth discussing. Now hear me out...

If the Jets dump Holmes (if in any way possible) in the offseason and bring in a guy like Greg Jennings (possible Free Agent) to go with Kerly and Stephen Hill and add a Solid RB in the draft this team would improve ten fold on Offense. If at that point Sanchez can not perform up to expectations then we move him and draft a QB in the 2014 Draft. At the very least the new QB coming in will have some talent around him to work with and grow with Since Kerley and Hill are very young and seem to have promising futures and Jennings would bring stability.

Since Sanchez is already guaranteed the money for next year this is the only scenario that makes any sense. But Unlike the Jets the Packers are not stupid and they will probably not let Aaron Rodgers best Receiver just move on without a fight. If its a true money issue, they may have to let Jennings go because they do have some holes that need to be Addressed and they can probably bring in a Rookie Receiver and be just fine with Rodgers at QB and an already very established offense.

Since I think Sanchez's contract status likely means he will be the starter through at least next year I am rooting for him to succeed (as my happiness level on Sunday is attached directly to this.) However, if he plays poorly I will be critical of his performance.

I actually felt bad for Sanchez on Sunday because other than two backbreaking plays, he had a very good game. Its just we need to not see those backbreaking plays. They need to stop. They are beyond old at this point.

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Smashmouth    10,784

Since I think Sanchez's contract status likely means he will be the starter through at least next year I am rooting for him to succeed (as my happiness level on Sunday is attached directly to this.) However, if he plays poorly I will be critical of his performance.

I actually felt bad for Sanchez on Sunday because other than two backbreaking plays, he had a very good game. Its just we need to not see those backbreaking plays. They need to stop. They are beyond old at this point.

I agree the biggest problem Sanchez has is protecting the football. Interceptions happen but not getting rid of the football and fumbling as much as Mark Does trying to extend plays is just really poor judgement on his part. Rather than trying to constantly back out of pressure he needs to roll out more to extend plays and possibly even run a bit more as well

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The Crusher    188,870

Since I think Sanchez's contract status likely means he will be the starter through at least next year I am rooting for him to succeed (as my happiness level on Sunday is attached directly to this.) However, if he plays poorly I will be critical of his performance.

I actually felt bad for Sanchez on Sunday because other than two backbreaking plays, he had a very good game. Its just we need to not see those backbreaking plays. They need to stop. They are beyond old at this point.

LOL

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Bleedin Green    73,956

The problem you have is anything that shows a positive effect on Sanchez is not worth discussing. Now hear me out...

If the Jets dump Holmes (if in any way possible) in the offseason and bring in a guy like Greg Jennings (possible Free Agent) to go with Kerly and Stephen Hill and add a Solid RB in the draft this team would improve ten fold on Offense. If at that point Sanchez can not perform up to expectations then we move him and draft a QB in the 2014 Draft. At the very least the new QB coming in will have some talent around him to work with and grow with Since Kerley and Hill are very young and seem to have promising futures and Jennings would bring stability.

Since Sanchez is already guaranteed the money for next year this is the only scenario that makes any sense. But Unlike the Jets the Packers are not stupid and they will probably not let Aaron Rodgers best Receiver just move on without a fight. If its a true money issue, they may have to let Jennings go because they do have some holes that need to be Addressed and they can probably bring in a Rookie Receiver and be just fine with Rodgers at QB and an already very established offense.

Even if they go with that plan, there's absolutely no way the Jets can justify waiting another year to draft a QB. They already should have drafted one this past year and they absolutely have to draft one this coming year, even if it's just to sit him while Sanchez gets the start at the beginning of the season. You can't sit here and wait until you've finally cut your last QB to go and draft the next one, starting this process all over with a rookie at QB once again. With that kind of logic, we'll be sitting around while people like you want to give the new guy his 5 years to prove himself, even if he sucks. The Jets need to keep continually looking, and cannot stop, until they've found their answer. Giving the same one guy a chance over and over again with no competition or alternatives when there's little to no evidence that he'll ever be the answer is not going to get you anywhere.

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JohnnyHector    152,029

there's absolutely no way the Jets can justify waiting another year to draft a QB. They already should have drafted one this past year and they absolutely have to draft one this coming year, even if it's just to sit him while Sanchez gets the start at the beginning of the season. You can't sit here and wait until you've finally cut your last QB to go and draft the next one, starting this process all over with a rookie at QB once again.

And predictably, if he struggles, Smash will be complaining that said rookie QB was thrown to the lions and didn't have the proper coaching to succeed.

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Smashmouth    10,784

Even if they go with that plan, there's absolutely no way the Jets can justify waiting another year to draft a QB. They already should have drafted one this past year and they absolutely have to draft one this coming year, even if it's just to sit him while Sanchez gets the start at the beginning of the season. You can't sit here and wait until you've finally cut your last QB to go and draft the next one, starting this process all over with a rookie at QB once again. With that kind of logic, we'll be sitting around while people like you want to give the new guy his 5 years to prove himself, even if he sucks. The Jets need to keep continually looking, and cannot stop, until they've found their answer. Giving the same one guy a chance over and over again with no competition or alternatives when there's little to no evidence that he'll ever be the answer is not going to get you anywhere.

And predictably, if he struggles, Smash will be complaining that said rookie QB was thrown to the lions and didn't have the proper coaching to succeed.

Wrong. Sanchez is fully paid for next season and no matter how much you stomp your feet, hes playing. It would be stupid to draft a QB in this years draft and force the issue, unless we see someone we just have to have and honestly I dont trust this regime of clowns to make that call , if you do, then fine, we can just disagree. It also comes down to draft position and weather you once again want to mortage the future (if your pick is not good enough) package up picks to move up and get said QB. Also the upcoming draft may be weak at the position so pushing would be stupid as well. You try to win with what you have and if it does not work you move on. If your not patient with this process then you wind up with sh*t once again. The option you have if you draft a QB in 2014 and cut Sanchez is you grab a veteran on the cheap and let the rookie battle him to play, if hes got issues he sits until hes ready if he lights it up he plays pretty much the same thing most teams do.

Hector predictably you will probably hate every QB that comes in here especially if he comes in under Rex/Tanny/Sparano and they continue to ignore the offensive side of the ball. Sorry you find this hard to deal with and you cant see beyond a QB in the NFL but its the sad fact we all have to deal with being Jets fans the past 12 years. This team has put much more emphasis on the defense. Sure they spent some High picks on the offensive line but virtually none at the skill positions (until finally this year and we know Hills raw). They saw fit to bring in other teams cast offs and Cuts rather than building properly with our young QB from day one the problems Sanchez has faced in this organization have been numerous. Its also the reason why I think he has the problems he does. I see a poorly coached offense under Shotty for 6 years and now it seems Sparano has them slightly improving but who knows .... They are still capable of going out and laying an egg at any time and the only really big play type guy we have until Hill emerges is Kerley and we have nothing at the RB position.

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#27TheDominator    203,589

Even if they go with that plan, there's absolutely no way the Jets can justify waiting another year to draft a QB. They already should have drafted one this past year and they absolutely have to draft one this coming year, even if it's just to sit him while Sanchez gets the start at the beginning of the season. You can't sit here and wait until you've finally cut your last QB to go and draft the next one, starting this process all over with a rookie at QB once again. With that kind of logic, we'll be sitting around while people like you want to give the new guy his 5 years to prove himself, even if he sucks. The Jets need to keep continually looking, and cannot stop, until they've found their answer. Giving the same one guy a chance over and over again with no competition or alternatives when there's little to no evidence that he'll ever be the answer is not going to get you anywhere.

What round? It depends on where they are picking and who is available. I don't see the sense in drafting a QB for the sake of drafting one. If there is somebody they like to be a starter fine, but I doubt we want to burn a 1st on one and I don't think we are going to find anybody that will cheer you guys up past the 3rd or 4th.

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Smashmouth    10,784

What round? It depends on where they are picking and who is available. I don't see the sense in drafting a QB for the sake of drafting one. If there is somebody they like to be a starter fine, but I doubt we want to burn a 1st on one and I don't think we are going to find anybody that will cheer you guys up past the 3rd or 4th.

Thank you for making sense.

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Bleedin Green    73,956

What round? It depends on where they are picking and who is available. I don't see the sense in drafting a QB for the sake of drafting one. If there is somebody they like to be a starter fine, but I doubt we want to burn a 1st on one and I don't think we are going to find anybody that will cheer you guys up past the 3rd or 4th.

Obviously it depends on the circumstances and who's available, but you certainly don't walk into the next draft saying you aren't going to address the position, as was suggested in the post I was replying to. As for this past year, perhaps instead of pissing away a draft pick on a proven failure at the position as the only other option aside of a guy who finished last year by playing the worst football of his career, they could have at least looked to possibly address the position in the draft.

If they find someone they like in the draft, they can always make a move for him if they really wanted, and if they can't find a single QB they like (which would bring up a whole other set of questions), that's one thing, but going in advance and saying they're absolutely not taking a QB regardless of who's available would be the single dumbest thing any team could ever possibly do. Thus, the reason why the idea that Jets should wait until 2014 before even looking for a QB is absolute foolishness, which was the point I was directly responding to. Interesting that you didn't take such issue with that point, considering that it was not only indicating that the QB position be drafted in a single specific year of 2014, but in addition to that, also suggested intentionally predetermining not to address it prior to that.

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Bleedin Green    73,956

Thank you for making sense.

So you agree with his position then? You do realize that following his logic, the position you took regarding how the Jets should handle the QB position would have to be considered even more ridiculous, right?

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