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stoicsentry

Coples and Hill

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What? Well then Carroll doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. They had multiple sacks, pressures, knockdowns, forced fumbles and even a touchdown. Coples and Wilkerson were active and involved... DeVito did his best Kris Jenkins impression on one play, completely blowing up the offensive line and wrapping up the running back like he was 4 feet tall.

They certainly did seem to run out of gas.

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Hill played the most of any receiver (63%) and did nothing but the whole offense stunk so he just fit right in with the rest of the crew. Coples for whatever reason only played 42% of the snaps despite seeming to do alot of good when he was in. Seeing him making plays I assumed he played more than that but Rex went with the "veteran pride" approach and took snaps away from Coples and Davis to give to Scott and Thomas. In fairness Thomas played pretty well and Scott was ok too. With the season over though there is no need to play anyone but the young guys.

http://nyjetscap.com/2012_Post/jetsseahawksplaytime.html

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Hill played the most of any receiver (63%) and did nothing but the whole offense stunk so he just fit right in with the rest of the crew. Coples for whatever reason only played 42% of the snaps despite seeming to do alot of good when he was in. Seeing him making plays I assumed he played more than that but Rex went with the "veteran pride" approach and took snaps away from Coples and Davis to give to Scott and Thomas. In fairness Thomas played pretty well and Scott was ok too. With the season over though there is no need to play anyone but the young guys.

http://nyjetscap.com...ksplaytime.html

You don't think that Coples and Davis give some up against the run compared to the vets?

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Hill played the most of any receiver (63%) and did nothing but the whole offense stunk so he just fit right in with the rest of the crew. Coples for whatever reason only played 42% of the snaps despite seeming to do alot of good when he was in. Seeing him making plays I assumed he played more than that but Rex went with the "veteran pride" approach and took snaps away from Coples and Davis to give to Scott and Thomas. In fairness Thomas played pretty well and Scott was ok too. With the season over though there is no need to play anyone but the young guys.

http://nyjetscap.com...ksplaytime.html

I'm surprised as well. He was pretty disruptive every time I saw him in the game. A couple good pressures, one with a swat on Wilson's throw, tackle for loss. Blew a couple of run plays up well too.

And I agree it times to play the kids, but Rex wont. He still believes.

You don't think that Coples and Davis give some up against the run compared to the vets?

I dont know if Coples does. He's been pretty effective from what I've seen. I'd like to see the stats on his run stopping efficiency. Davis probably does vs. a team like Seattle with a power back who runs between the tackles.

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I'm surprised as well. He was pretty disruptive every time I saw him in the game. A couple good pressures, one with a swat on Wilson's throw, tackle for loss. Blew a couple of run plays up well too.

And I agree it times to play the kids, but Rex wont. He still believes.

I dont know if Coples does. He's been pretty effective from what I've seen. I'd like to see the stats on his run stopping efficiency. Davis probably does vs. a team like Seattle with a power back who runs between the tackles.

I'm not sure myself. Physically I think they both can be fine against the run, but a lot of it is gap discipline. New guys will tend to give something up compared to old school run stoppers like Devito and Scott. I think Pouha coming back and the fact those guys seemed to be getting worn out contributed to the rotation. I'd be pissed if he played 25%, but somewhere in the 40's doesn't seem unreasonable.

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You don't think that Coples and Davis give some up against the run compared to the vets?

Coples Im sure does but I think at this stage you want to go with trial by fire and get the guys used to seeing things in real time. In Coples case I think you also hope he learns how hard you have to work to be conditioned to play for 60-70 plays a week over a 16 week season. I dont think there is anything wrong with letting a guy like that get blown up at the end of a game and embarrassed a little bit.

On Davis vs Scott I think it depends. If a runner/receiver is at the second level Id expect Davis to have a better chance doing something productive. In terms of keeping that player from getting to the second level Scott is the better option. Personally I think its really on David Harris at this point. Hes fallen off a cliff since Scott went downhill. He got carried for about 7 yards on a play this week. That should never happen to a "top tier" linebacker.

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Coples Im sure does but I think at this stage you want to go with trial by fire and get the guys used to seeing things in real time. In Coples case I think you also hope he learns how hard you have to work to be conditioned to play for 60-70 plays a week over a 16 week season. I dont think there is anything wrong with letting a guy like that get blown up at the end of a game and embarrassed a little bit.

On Davis vs Scott I think it depends. If a runner/receiver is at the second level Id expect Davis to have a better chance doing something productive. In terms of keeping that player from getting to the second level Scott is the better option. Personally I think its really on David Harris at this point. Hes fallen off a cliff since Scott went downhill. He got carried for about 7 yards on a play this week. That should never happen to a "top tier" linebacker.

I agree about the trial by fire. The question is at what point he was getting his reps. They may also want to coach him up, by pulling him to explain where he ****ed up. It doesn't seem that the Dlinemen are going series for series the way they do at G. Agree about LBs. I stand up for Tanny on most things, but I didn't want to give Harris all that money. I don't think he's top tier. He's quality, but limited. Harris is not a player that "makes those around him better" or whatever that saying is.

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You think so?

I think Coples and Hill will both have decent careers. Wilson, maybe not as much, but I don't think any of the 3 are "busts". Wilson definitely didn't live up to 1st round billing but he's not that bad either. He's been our starting CB for most of the year and it's not like we're getting killed through the air.

As to this particular game though, you don't think Coples had a good game?

If 1 tackle and 1 assist are good I guess he was almost spectacular. His ceiling looks to be no more than an average defensive lineman who takes up space.

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If 1 tackle and 1 assist are good I guess he was almost spectacular. His ceiling looks to be no more than an average defensive lineman who takes up space.

Yep feel same way, jet fans rejoice in that he is not Vern and he makes an occasional tackle, he still does not have a meaningful sack

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Yep feel same way, jet fans rejoice in that he is not Vern and he makes an occasional tackle, he still does not have a meaningful sack

That run stuff came just before half. It meant as much as a sack. You remember the first half? When it was Seahawks 14 - Jets D 7? The Jets D had scored 7, given the O the ball on the 40 and one of the TDs was after the D stuffed them on their own 15 and Kerley gave it right back with a short field.

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I guess we should wait a few years. Takes players different time periods sometimes. Mark Ingram is called a bust so far, but I think too early in his case also.

Give it 2/3 years before declaring a bust IMHO :)

The problem is that we need help now. In 2008, 2009 and 2010 we didn't need immediate help, drafted some projects and none panned out. Wilson isn't a bust-bust, but he isn't a hit either. Ducasse sure looks like bust so far and this is the year he should be proving himself. This year we are ready for help. Getting a guy like Wilkerson is nice, but he isn't the kind of superstud, JPP type that will make up for Gholston sucking. Davis seems like a player, but is he going to be a high level starter or just a nice rotation piece? It's too early to tell, but this year we actually need these guys to step up. Are they? Eh.

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The problem is that we need help now. In 2008, 2009 and 2010 we didn't need immediate help, drafted some projects and none panned out. Wilson isn't a bust-bust, but he isn't a hit either. Ducasse sure looks like bust so far and this is the year he should be proving himself. This year we are ready for help. Getting a guy like Wilkerson is nice, but he isn't the kind of superstud, JPP type that will make up for Gholston sucking. Davis seems like a player, but is he going to be a high level starter or just a nice rotation piece? It's too early to tell, but this year we actually need these guys to step up. Are they? Eh.

I hear ya, but rare for a kid to be dominant in year1. It happens for sure, but not often. usually kids who dominate in Year 1 are also on very good teams :)

Wilson to me is a very good nickel, but I dont ever see him in ProBowl as a Corner. I like Davis and Coples .I think we will see more sacks if we ever got a nice lead and forced Offenses to throw low % passes, LOL.

I have to assume Tanny gone, so we will have to see what new GM brings. remember, Jets 'let' Joey Clinksdales go easily and he was guy Tanny put in charge of draft. It was all his input. Clinksdales leaving was a plus IMHO. Tanny fault for keeping Joey so long for sure.

Edited by SouthernJet

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I don't like what I've been seeing out of Wilson. He looks like he might be better off playing safety. He's fast enough, but doesn't get his head around and spends a ton of time chasing people without looking back. The fact that he is a smuft compounds the problem because it's so easy to drop one over his head. Hell, he barely blocks the receiver's view.

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That run stuff came just before half. It meant as much as a sack. You remember the first half? When it was Seahawks 14 - Jets D 7? The Jets D had scored 7, given the O the ball on the 40 and one of the TDs was after the D stuffed them on their own 15 and Kerley gave it right back with a short field.

It wasnt coples dude, it was devito Pouha and MoW, Coples made once nice TFL, but he wasnt even blocked, look at ze tape. Jets needed a pass rusher not another run stuffer

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It wasnt coples dude, it was devito Pouha and MoW, Coples made once nice TFL, but he wasnt even blocked, look at ze tape. Jets needed a pass rusher not another run stuffer

Umm... they both had them. Coples was right before the half. When it was still a game though it was going to be tough going since they rarely recover from negative offense.

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I don't like what I've been seeing out of Wilson. He looks like he might be better off playing safety. He's fast enough, but doesn't get his head around and spends a ton of time chasing people without looking back. The fact that he is a smuft compounds the problem because it's so easy to drop one over his head. Hell, he barely blocks the receiver's view.

by smuft, I assume you mean smurf?

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Umm... they both had them. Coples was right before the half. When it was still a game though it was going to be tough going since they rarely recover from negative offense.

I dont think Coples will ever be a star, his lazy motor will never let him, he will play and make some plays once in a while

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How did they think that starting Hill on Day One was, in any way, a good idea?

They handed the keys to a 22 year old on a win now team who had 16 starts in college.

Hill is years away from being a guy you can even have on the field.

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Jason had an insight that is instructive(and I hope I'm accurate); the peripheral guys in the DL rotation , especially Devtio and Pouha, would be very effective if they were complementing more talented DL guys. Problem is all we see from any of these high end guys, Wilkerson, Coples, et al, is that they don't really produce enough to justify their status. We've seem flashes, but simply not enough. Despitge the fact Rex played DL in college there's scant evidence he's developed anyone. Even with the Ravens, Ngata was the real deal from Day 1, Rex didn't add much. Seems to be a theme-nobody on this Jets' team much develops. So drafting projects is pointless.

As to Hill a WR who can't catch is worthless. Seems like a nice kid in interviews, but that's a fatal flaw.

Edited by Bugg

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