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Pro Football Talk - "Shonn Greene thinks it’s time for a change at the quarterback position"


JoeC36

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This is the exact meltdown day in media I feared when we traded for Tebow. I thought it would be Week 4 or 5. But its finally here. From this point here every loss will only magnify the noise in media. And this is why the Tebow trade bafffled me.

Who the eff cares, though?

If Mark Sanchez wasn't so brutally terrible, we're not having this conversation.

See, what the anti-Tebow crowd would have us believe is that somehow a 3-6 record without Tebow would be better than a 3-6 record with Tebow. By my calculations, it's... the same.

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Mark has played far worse this season than I ever expected, and he's getting worse. His contract extension could prove to be one of the best moves in franchise history - if it gets Tannenbaum fired.

Hate to say it. Really hate to say it. But they should probably make the move to Tebow sooner rather than later. They need to see what he can do first hand. It could easily be worse than what we've already got, but at least then they'll know and can act accordingly in the offseason. They can't go into the winter with any questions about what Tebow is or isn't. At this point, the Sanchez question's been answered.

I wish the weather got warmer as the season wore on, that way I could go outside and find stuff to do.

Well, they are both inaccurate (Tim moreso). They both cannot pick up secondary receivers. But at least Tim will get a few unexpected first downs with his legs that might actually keep drives alive. He will also be harder to sack behind the line. Hell, I am harder to sack behind the line than Sanchez. I don't see us winning much of anything with Sanchez. If I thought this team could win 7 games I would stick with Sanchez. But I am starting to doubt that we will win again. This team is lost once more.

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Who the eff cares, though?

If Mark Sanchez wasn't so brutally terrible, we're not having this conversation.

The "meltdown" isn't coming from Tebow being on the team. It is coming from Sanchez blowing the donkey. If he played even moderately average we wouldn't have threads on here calling for McElroy to start.

:face:

Does Mark Sanchez's performance surprise you guys ? It's not like he performed like a Top 5 QB last season.

I am still baffled by the fact that the very people who are ridicule the Sanchez extension in the off season (correctly I might add) are the ones now blaming Sanchez for the Tebow related media meltdown!

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Well, they are both inaccurate (Tim moreso). They both cannot pick up secondary receivers. But at least Tim will get a few unexpected first downs with his legs that might actually keep drives alive. He will also be harder to sack behind the line. Hell, I am harder to sack behind the line than Sanchez. I don't see us winning much of anything with Sanchez. If I thought this team could win 7 games I would stick with Sanchez. But I am starting to doubt that we will win again. This team is lost once more.

Just wanted to mention that both those things are false. Tebow led the league in 3 & outs, and was sacked at nearly twice the rate Sanchez was last season.

Still, I think everyone need to see Tebow first hand, in large doses rather than highlight reels, to determine what the team really has in him.

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Sanchez does suck but who is Shonn Greene to tell Sanchez he sucks at his job? It's not like Greene is a respected pro bowler, he splits carries with Powell and McKnight and most likely won't be on the team next year. Time for a Running Back change Greene, I don't think we'd lose any production by starting Powell or McKnight in place of him

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:face:

Does Mark Sanchez's performance surprise you guys ? It's not like he performed like a Top 5 QB last season.

I am still baffled by the fact that the very people who are ridicule the Sanchez extension in the off season (correctly I might add) are the ones now blaming Sanchez for the Tebow related media meltdown!

Yes. It does surprise me. I expected him to suck, but I expected him to suck like he did last year and the year before. He's supposed to suck like a bottom 10 QB, not a bottom 3. If he were the 23 best QB in the NFL nobody would be mentioning Tebow.

Of course the fact that the Jets got Tebow makes one less guy he is better than, but still - bottom 24.

Sanchez does suck but who is Shonn Greene to tell Sanchez he sucks at his job? It's not like Greene is a respected pro bowler, he splits carries with Powell and McKnight and most likely won't be on the team next year. Time for a Running Back change Greene, I don't think we'd lose any production by starting Powell or McKnight in place of him

He doesn't share carries with those guys because they are never healthy and Greene didn't seem to indicate he was above being benched - in fact the team has tried to get other guys reps. What he said was that everybody should be held accountable and the QB shouldn't get off scott free just because he is QB.

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Yes. It does surprise me. I expected him to suck, but I expected him to suck like he did last year and the year before. He's supposed to suck like a bottom 10 QB, not a bottom 3. If he were the 23 best QB in the NFL nobody would be mentioning Tebow.

Of course the fact that the Jets got Tebow makes one less guy he is better than, but still - bottom 24.

That would still be poor. And anything poor was bound to arouse the Tebow media flare up at some point or another.

My point being when you are putting fuel near fire you should not be focused on the strength of the fire. Sooner or later it is bound to blow up. That's why the Tebow move baffles me!

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That would still be poor. And anything poor was bound to arouse the Tebow media flare up at some point or another.

My point being when you are putting fuel near fire you should not be focused on the strength of the fire. Sooner or later it is bound to blow up. That's why the Tebow move baffles me!

In that case any backup QB is "fuel". They'd have been calling for Drew Stanton at this point. Probably sooner.

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Just wanted to mention that both those things are false. Tebow led the league in 3 & outs, and was sacked at nearly twice the rate Sanchez was last season.

Still, I think everyone need to see Tebow first hand, in large doses rather than highlight reels, to determine what the team really has in him.

I watched him drive 95 yards vs. the Jets defense with 5 minutes left to win the game, throwing and running all over the field. Does that count?

Plus, how many of those 3 and outs were run, run, pass on 3rd long. Denver might have changed their play book for Tebow but they did very little to actually help him succeed. I watched a lot of his games, they were trying to make him fail. It was obvious.

The Broncos led the league in rushing, in large part because of Tebow's presence Greene's in a contract year. Just food for thought.

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Just wanted to mention that both those things are false. Tebow led the league in 3 & outs, and was sacked at nearly twice the rate Sanchez was last season.

Still, I think everyone need to see Tebow first hand, in large doses rather than highlight reels, to determine what the team really has in him.

Last year was also his first extended stint as a starter. Doesn't mean he would continue the same path from one year to the next. I think he would still suck, but all the Sanchez apologists kept harping on about how important each successive year of experience was for his improvement. Yet that excuse doesn't seem to apply to anyone except their darling.

But yeah, sometimes when things are this bad you make a change for the sake of change. Orton is a better QB than Sanchez, and clearly better than Tebow. But when things aren't going well doing what you're doing, sometimes you put in an x-factor and maybe it has a team-wide effect. Most likely it wouldn't, but we're hardly gaining anything by leaving Sanchez in there.

Sanchez is obviously starting vs StL. Tebow may get the nod vs NE because why else would anyone tune in (let alone go to the game) other than to watch a walking PR move. After that I'd go with McElroy. Not because I am optimistic about him becoming the starter, but at a minimum because we really should see if he could be a capable #2.

McElroy is probably terrible also and the reason he's buried behind the 2 worst QBs in the land. But then those that are evaluating him are the ones who not only drafted Sanchez, but after seeing him suck for 3 years were on board with his extension, including guaranteeing him starter money for at least 2 more seasons. So I'm not terribly confident in their QB assessment abilities.

One could argue, as it seems to be presented, that if Sanchez is this bad and he's badly outshining McElroy in practice, that McElroy's failure is a foregone conclusion. But then if McElroy is so horrible, and so is Tebow, why not drop McElroy and pick up a #3 QB who could challenge for the #2 job even mid-season? In the face of Sanchez's obvious failures it makes no sense all around.

If McElroy is so obviously worse than stiffs like Sanchez and Tebow, what the f*ck is he even doing with the #3 QB job? Seems they'd be better off bringing back Brunell or signing another geezer like Garcia. Or ANYONE if McElroy is truly this hideous even when practicing against the 3rd stringers (and practice squad stashes) of a defense whose starters are nothing to brag about.

Can't wrap my head around their thought process.

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I watched him drive 95 yards vs. the Jets defense with 5 minutes left to win the game, throwing and running all over the field. Does that count?

Plus, how many of those 3 and outs were run, run, pass on 3rd long. Denver might have changed their play book for Tebow but they did very little to actually help him succeed. I watched a lot of his games, they were trying to make him fail. It was obvious.

The Broncos led the league in rushing, in large part because of Tebow's presence Greene's in a contract year. Just food for thought.

Tebow had the highest rate of pass attempts of 15+ yards downfield last year by a significant margin. Now I don't know if that's because of the plays called or because he locked onto his deep man the way Sanchez does with his primary. But that factors in to his lousy completion percentage. That and being generally inaccurate at any pass length with a release so slow it looked like he was playing in 7 feet of honey.

But I agree that keeping with Sanchez expecting him to suddenly get better for no reason falls under the definition of insanity.

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Tebow had the highest rate of pass attempts of 15+ yards downfield last year by a significant margin. Now I don't know if that's because of the plays called or because he locked onto his deep man the way Sanchez does with his primary. But that factors in to his lousy completion percentage. That and being generally inaccurate at any pass length with a release so slow it looked like he was playing in 7 feet of honey.

But I agree that keeping with Sanchez expecting him to suddenly get better for no reason falls under the definition of insanity.

Again, how many of those passes were on 3rd and long, in a obvious passing situation, when they need 10+ yards to pick up the first down? Thats a tough down for any QB, let alone a first year starter who clearly had a lot of development in regards to passing, especially when his #1 receiver was traded the day he was promoted to starter.

I watched a ton of his games. You know how many times they ran a play action with one option going long and literally no other receiver on the field? Now, I understand that probably was because of Tebow's limitations but my point remains...the Broncos did very little to help him succeed. They rarely if ever gave him a chance to throw a nice easy swing or short pass on 1st down. It was run, run, pass on 3rd and long.

Make no mistake about it, Denver wanted him to fail to shut the fan base up and cut bait as quickly as possible.

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Again, how many of those passes were on 3rd and long, in a obvious passing situation, when they need 10+ yards to pick up the first down? Thats a tough down for any QB, let alone a first year starter who clearly had a lot of development in regards to passing, especially when his #1 receiver was traded the day he was promoted to start.

I watched a ton of his games. You know how many times they ran a play action with one option going long and literally no other receiver on the field? Now, I understand that probably was because of Tebow limitations but my point remains...the Broncos did very little to help him succeed. They rarely if ever gave him a nice to throw a nice easy swing or short pass on 1st down. It was run, run, pass on 3rd and long.

Make no mistake about it, Denver wanted him to fail to shut the fan base up and cut bait as quickly as possible.

Maybe. But they didn't suddenly do that only with Tebow after hardly ever doing that with Orton. Despite the obvious most important team stat, individually Orton - mediocre as he is - was and is a far superior QB. And he was completing about 60% of his passes on the same team in the same season.

Sure it's possible, but I have a hard time assuming the 2011 Broncos weren't in a lot of 3rd & long situations until Tebow became the starter.

And a HC who has delivered nothing for the franchise never wants his own team to lose. It's ludicrous to suggest Elway was whispering in Fox's ear to make Tebow fail and I promise I'll cut him loose and bring you back next year and the year after that. Fox has no lifelong loyalty to Denver or to Elway (he was in his first year out there) - or from them - and in no way figured mid-season in 2011 that next year they'd have a healthy Peyton Manning as the QB for all of 2012. Give me a break with that nonsense.

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Maybe. But they didn't suddenly do that only with Tebow after hardly ever doing that with Orton. Despite the obvious most important team stat, individually Orton - mediocre as he is - was and is a far superior QB. And he was completing about 60% of his passes on the same team in the same season.

Sure it's possible, but I have a hard time assuming the 2011 Broncos weren't in a lot of 3rd & long situations until Tebow became the starter.

And a HC who has delivered nothing for the franchise never wants his own team to lose. It's ludicrous to suggest Elway was whispering in Fox's ear to make Tebow fail and I promise I'll cut him loose and bring you back next year and the year after that. Fox has no lifelong loyalty to Denver or to Elway (he was in his first year out there) - or from them - and in no way figured mid-season in 2011 that next year they'd have a healthy Peyton Manning as the QB for all of 2012. Give me a break with that nonsense.

Far superior? Thats a stretch. Orton was awful. The only thing he was doing better was completing a higher percentage, with their #1 WR at the time. 8/7 to 12/6 - I'll sacrifice the completion percentage for that TD to INT ratio any day of the week..and that's clearly not factoring in the 6 rushing TD's and the 600+ yards gained too. And Orton should be completing a higher percentage and should have been the better QB, he was what, a 8 year starter compared to a first time starter?

They wanted him to fail. Lets be honest. They were 1-4. San Diego at the time was 4-1. They didnt think they were making the playoffs or winning anything last season. They went to Tebow because there were F'ing billboards in Denver asking for the guy. He skipped Quinn on the depth chart to start. They were hoping Tebow would fail and they could put the whole thing to bed. Yes. I truly believe that. Pure speculation...but thats my take. Fox wasnt worried about his job his first season there...if he was, Tebow would have never started.

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I watched him drive 95 yards vs. the Jets defense with 5 minutes left to win the game, throwing and running all over the field. Does that count?

It definitely counts. I'm pretty sure that's the sum total of evaluation that went into the decision to trade for him.

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How many backup Qb's gett heir own press conference and so much attention from media ?

yea but u gotta admit it completely stopped ESPN got to much backlash. The only reason this is a thing now is because sanchez is sucking and dumb asses decided to anonymous quote stuff about him. If they are jealous of all the talk tebow gets they probably did the worst thing about that and ramped it up even more.

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Subjective speculation at that

Not at all. I couldnt care less about what happened to Tebow's career in Denver. I tuned in because it was the most exciting thing happening in sports at the time, but I've got no invested interest in Tebow's career. He gave me the best years of my Football fandom at UF but what happens after, meant nothing to me...well, until he got traded to the Jets but that's a different story.

Percy Harvin on the other hand...;-)

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The Tebow hype somehow has followed him since day one long before NFL.. His actual value is hard to assess really, because he is obviously to anyone with half a brain, a dork until it is actual real live football time, meaning he is a gamer, BUT mostly because he hasn't really started so to speak with an off season of prep and all that, for whatever reason.

I also agree that Denver wasn't supporting him at all, that really isn't even up for debate they wouldn't even actually start him for a game, they *started* him in the middle of a game.. with no injury to their best option at the time, Kyle Orton. The only major diff in scenarios is Tim had a little more time with the Broncos before was stuck in last ditch attempt kind of stuff.. HA HA..

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