Why can't Woody hire anyone with experience?

**slats** · November 25, 2012

In the event Rex gets wacked, I'm having a hard time seeing how Woody's #1 target isn't Gruden. Not because Gruden is the best candidate, but because he's the rock star option that Woody will want. Saban isn't coming here to coach against Belichick. Cowher is going to wait out Coughlin. Holmgren would want full power. Dungy is gonna stay behind that desk getting yelled at by Rodney Harrison. Who's left? Mike Tice? Perry Fewell? Maybe Lane Kiffin when USC fires him?

Woody has to get out of his own way. Maybe this new guy who was in the famous meeting with Rex & Tanny can bend Woody's ear and get it thru his skull that nothing will make him more money than fielding a winning football team.

New guy and Woody then hire a competent GM, and that GM is given the authority over all football matters. Woody has to keep his reactionary, split-second attention span away from the operation. Hire good people, and leave them alone to do a good job. Hopefully a few candidates emerge who can detail in an interview everything that Tannenbaum's done wrong that they can do better.

JustInFudge · November 25, 2012

Last year a good game, this yrs Bama Def is not as good.

There was a split second where I actually believed Kiffin could call a play for 1 yard and the Gators could catch a break and pull a last years Bama, but you gotta give ND credit, that was a huge goal line stand.

Jetscode1 · November 25, 2012

Some perspective is needed. Until this year, Woody's ownership (since 2000) produced a winning record with six playoff appearances. While this record isn't spectacular, it's better than most teams in that time span. The problem is that during that time span there were too many quick fixes wothout a long term strategy. Siccessful franchises such as the Giants, Steelers, Ravens, Pats etc build their teams on maintaining draft picks and drafting well. These teams also establish an identity as to their style of play. The Jets have no true identity. Ground and Pound is a farce without the talent to execute it. The solution is getting a football executive, not a coach, as a GM. Woody has to decide what he wants this team to become. The status quo is not acceptable and I think Woody knows it.

This.

The problem with the Jets...lack of strategic planning...need a strong GM willing to build a foundation...for the long haul...integrated personnel moves...to match the organizational philosophy...anything else is counterproductive.

LIMFACs of names listed:

Dungy: turned around the fortunes of two teams...but one had an offense comparable to the Jets 2012 and the other gave him Peyton Manning...he tweaked the defense just enough to win one championship and move on to TV...doubt he wants to grind...seems dedicated to family since the SB win and losing his son shortly before that...just don't see him coming back.

Gruden: not sure how this guy earned his rep as a QB guru...maybe its the TV show before the draft...entertaining...yes...QB guru...no. signed Gannon as free agent in Oakland...Gannon took to the West Coast offense...could have been him just as much as the coach...took over a defensive-heavy Tampa Bay team...and managed to coax just enough out of Brad Johnson to win a title...then proceeded to oversee their demise...Shaun King, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, Brad Gradkowski, Jeff Garcia...what QB can you say that John Gruden developed?

Cowher: product of the Steeler system...brought an attitude, defense oriented teams...didn't win title until Big Ben arrived...doubt his style works in the new NFL...not enough offense...too comfortable in the TV booth...more like Jimmy Johnson with the Dolphins...can't see him winning here...

Kelly: would like to see him in the NFL...the reports I've read states the new owner wants him in Cleveland...not against bring him here...just remember not to put the cart before the horse...more important to hire the right GM first...either way...his offense would have to evolve to work in the NFL...no way that spread works as easy as it does in college...plus it would several drafts to put together the talent necessary to play his system...boom or bust guy...could be Bill Walsh...could be Steve Spurrier...probably the latter...

Again, the better decision is to find the right football guy to lead the team...the Polians...package deal...could also see Woody sniffing around Marty Schottenheimer or Mike Holmgren...not sure either is the right choice...but we need a solid scouting department and a better decision maker at the helm.

T0mShane · November 25, 2012

Woody has to get out of his own way. Maybe this new guy who was in the famous meeting with Rex & Tanny can bend Woody's ear and get it thru his skull that nothing will make him more money than fielding a winning football team.

New guy and Woody then hire a competent GM, and that GM is given the authority over all football matters. Woody has to keep his reactionary, split-second attention span away from the operation. Hire good people, and leave them alone to do a good job. Hopefully a few candidates emerge who can detail in an interview everything that Tannenbaum's done wrong that they can do better.

That's been my belief, too, that somebody of note gets in Woody's ear and stages a de facto intervention. I just have a hard time seeing Woody being able to excommunicate himself from the attention-gathering side of the equation. I still have the images from Hard Knocks of Woody, sitting in Tannenbaum's makeshift office, flipping through a magazine while Revis' agents were raking Tannenbaum on the phone.

The best case is clearly hiring the Grand Poobah Overseer-guy and getting out of the way, but I think the visual of standing at a podium introducing Gruden to the NY media is what Johnson would opt for instead. Hiring Bill Polian, then letting Polian drop the axe on Tannenbaum, neuters Johnson publicly. The question is, would he be able to accept that role?

Bugg · November 25, 2012

Concern is that somehow Johnson keeps Tannenbaum around as the "fiscal/cap" guy. It's floated today in Gary Myers' column. it's not going to work, and it's going to repel any real GM form taking any job with the Jets.

billo83 · November 25, 2012

Concern is that somehow Johnson keeps Tannenbaum around as the "fiscal/cap" guy. It's floated today in Gary Myers' column. it's not going to work, and it's going to repel any real GM form taking any job with the Jets.

That would be the equivilent of the demoting Rex from HC to DC. It just won't work unless it is the idea of the demotee. Even then it's not a good idea.

BlackDynamite · November 25, 2012

Gruden won a title keeping Dungy's seat warm. The Tampa Defense was no touched by Gruden in any way when they won, and that SuperBowl was as much an anomaly as the Ravens, they won in spite of their QB, because the defense was dominant.

I'm not saying Gruden would be terrible. I'm saying he wouldn't be the complete Head Coach that we need after yet another failed promotion of a coordinator by Woody.

Would I take Gruden at this point and hope for him to at least get us a QB? Sure. I just don't see him being much different than Rex. I could be wrong, but I envision us finally have a QB with Gruden and then complaining about how this great QB is wasted because our defense is neglected. Sounds familiar no?

That being said, change is necessary. I just think there are guys out there beyond the names housewives are familiar with, like Gruden.

You win with offense these days. This ain't 1999.

Tom Lady could beat the Giants, if he could outrun their 4-man rush. The Patriots can go to the Super Bowl anytime they want, just because they have a great offense.

The Jets need to build a great offense if they ever want another chance to be great, and Gruden is the best qualified to do so, by far.

BD

**slats** · November 25, 2012

Concern is that somehow Johnson keeps Tannenbaum around as the "fiscal/cap" guy. It's floated today in Gary Myers' column. it's not going to work, and it's going to repel any real GM form taking any job with the Jets.

I don't think there's anyone more overrated in the history of the universe in any capacity than Tannenbaum is as a cap genius. I'd fire him and hire Jason in a heartbeat. Tannenbaum's great talent seems to be holding onto a job he doesn't deserve, though, so this scenario wouldn't surprise me. Unfortunately.

SouthernJet · November 25, 2012

Concern is that somehow Johnson keeps Tannenbaum around as the "fiscal/cap" guy. It's floated today in Gary Myers' column. it's not going to work, and it's going to repel any real GM form taking any job with the Jets.

ya bad idea, although only shred of it workin would mean cap tanny reports directly to new GM,

Integrity28 · November 25, 2012

You win with offense these days. This ain't 1999.

Tom Lady could beat the Giants, if he could outrun their 4-man rush. The Patriots can go to the Super Bowl anytime they want, just because they have a great offense.

The Jets need to build a great offense if they ever want another chance to be great, and Gruden is the best qualified to do so, by far.

BD

While your argument that you win with offense is true, and I don't contest it.

Your claim that Gruden is the best qualified, by far, to be our offense-focused head coach is 1.) factually disputable; 2.) misguided. As I said earlier, you want to replace one head coach who has isolated expertise with another, all you are doing is CHANGING the imbalance by shifting from defense to offense. You aren't FIXING the imbalance.

BlackDynamite · November 25, 2012

While your argument that you win with offense is true, and I don't contest it.

Your claim that Gruden is the best qualified, by far, to be our offense-focused head coach is 1.) factually disputable; 2.) misguided. As I said earlier, you want to replace one head coach who has isolated expertise with another, all you are doing is CHANGING the imbalance by shifting from defense to offense. You aren't FIXING the imbalance.

BTW, Dungy couldn't win in Tampa with that D, but Gruden could?

That's saying something about Dungy (Like he needed Peyton Manning to get the job done), and that's saying something about Gruden

Advantage = Gruden

Name me a available coach is is an offensive and defensive genius?

Coaches are just offensive, or defensive coordinators, who got a promotion. They are great at one side of the ball, and their first job is to find a complimentary OC/DC who will cover the other side effectively.

Gruden fixed the Bucs' weakness, and you know the rest of the story......

BD

afosomf · November 25, 2012

There was a split second where I actually believed Kiffin could call a play for 1 yard and the Gators could catch a break and pull a last years Bama, but you gotta give ND credit, that was a huge goal line stand.

Kiffin is an effen moron, i am convinced USC wins with barkley though

afosomf · November 25, 2012

There was a split second where I actually believed Kiffin could call a play for 1 yard and the Gators could catch a break and pull a last years Bama, but you gotta give ND credit, that was a huge goal line stand.

also very proud of SEC for kicking ACC royal azz, Florida Ga USC and Vandy well done Salute

I hear Vatech and NC state want to jump next, not sure why FSU doesnt bolt

Matt39 · November 25, 2012

edit

Integrity28 · November 25, 2012

BTW, Dungy couldn't win in Tampa with that D, but Gruden could?

That's saying something about Dungy (Like he needed Peyton Manning to get the job done), and that's saying something about Gruden

Advantage = Gruden

Name me a available coach is is an offensive and defensive genius?

Coaches are just offensive, or defensive coordinators, who got a promotion. They are great at one side of the ball, and their first job is to find a complimentary OC/DC who will cover the other side effectively.

Gruden fixed the Bucs' weakness, and you know the rest of the story......

BD

The bold just isn't true.

The debate has become circuitous. If Gruden, at his age, was a capable head coach - he'd be one.

You keep throwing Dungy back at me, and you are missing the bigger statement I'm making. I want a head coach that can run a WHOLE team. Not just another over-promoted coordinator, which is what you are advocating. And what you are ultimately wrong about.

Gruden isn't the fix here, not if his best offering is to be able to coach up a QB. That just means there's a whole lot of other dimensions of the team that get neglected, just like now with everything outside of the defense with Rex.

Dungy won more than he lost, he left a team behind in Tampa that basically ran itself and was primed for a SB run. You are naive to think Gruden did much of anything to power that team along other than show up and be "fiery", just like we were all naive to think Rex was responsible for his first season as coach here. Veteran players had more to do with Rex's success than Rex, same goes for Gruden's SB in Tampa.

Regardless, I don't expect to change your opinion - and I do expect to have to read it redundantly for the months to come.

I'm just going on record telling you you are wrong. Another over-promoted coordinator with a singular area of expertise is not what we need. We need someone like Andy Reid who runs a whole football operation, has a track record of sustained competitiveness and success. Doesn't need to be Dungy, though I do think Dungy would be successful.

jetsfan2400 · November 25, 2012

I Agree with everything. Sean Payton would be the one.

BlackDynamite · November 26, 2012

The bold just isn't true.

The debate has become circuitous. If Gruden, at his age, was a capable head coach - he'd be one.

You keep throwing Dungy back at me, and you are missing the bigger statement I'm making. I want a head coach that can run a WHOLE team. Not just another over-promoted coordinator, which is what you are advocating. And what you are ultimately wrong about.

Gruden isn't the fix here, not if his best offering is to be able to coach up a QB. That just means there's a whole lot of other dimensions of the team that get neglected, just like now with everything outside of the defense with Rex.

Dungy won more than he lost, he left a team behind in Tampa that basically ran itself and was primed for a SB run. You are naive to think Gruden did much of anything to power that team along other than show up and be "fiery", just like we were all naive to think Rex was responsible for his first season as coach here. Veteran players had more to do with Rex's success than Rex, same goes for Gruden's SB in Tampa.

Regardless, I don't expect to change your opinion - and I do expect to have to read it redundantly for the months to come.

I'm just going on record telling you you are wrong. Another over-promoted coordinator with a singular area of expertise is not what we need. We need someone like Andy Reid who runs a whole football operation, has a track record of sustained competitiveness and success. Doesn't need to be Dungy, though I do think Dungy would be successful.

You failed to give me a coach who CAN "run" the whole team. Because you know that's not how football teams work.

So we will agree to disagree....

BD

Integrity28 · November 26, 2012

You failed to give me a coach who CAN "run" the whole team. Because you know that's not how football teams work.

So we will agree to disagree....

BD

I gave you two. Dungy and Cowher, I also added Andy Reid.

WTF are you talking about? All three have proven over multiple season that they can and do manage the WHOLE without a bias to one side of the ball, and without resting on the laurels of what they did as a coordinator/position coach as the strength that they bring to the table that outweighs short-comings in every other area of the team.

3 examples.

Not only did I prove you wrong. I also proved you don't have the courtesy (or ability) to read and comprehend the other side of a debate, and thus render yourself yet another moot poster here on the site.

BlackDynamite · November 26, 2012

I gave you two. Dungy and Cowher, I also added Andy Reid.

WTF are you talking about? All three have proven over multiple season that they can and do manage the WHOLE without a bias to one side of the ball, and without resting on the laurels of what they did as a coordinator/position coach as the strength that they bring to the table that outweighs short-comings in every other area of the team.

3 examples.

Not only did I prove you wrong. I also proved you don't have the courtesy (or ability) to read and comprehend the other side of a debate, and thus render yourself yet another moot poster here on the site.

Three wrong examples.

They don't run the offense and the defense. You should know that by now.

Reid is an offensive guy. he doesn't run defenses.

Jimmy Johnson ran the Eagles D for eons, and made them among the leagues best.

And they've gone through two DCs this year

Dungy was a DC.

Gruden was an offensive guru.

Many coaches don't "run" either, and are extremely successful. Tom Coughlin doesn't take a side.

Some coaches want to "run" a side. Some run neither. NONE "run" both. Coaching the team is tough enough.

Try to keep up.......

BD

Integrity28 · November 26, 2012

Three wrong examples.

They don't run the offense and the defense. You should know that by now.

Reid is an offensive guy. he doesn't run defenses.

Jimmy Johnson ran the Eagles D for eons, and made them among the leagues best.

And they've gone through two DCs this year

Dungy was a DC.

Gruden was an offensive guru.

Many coaches don't "run" either, and are extremely successful. Tom Coughlin doesn't take a side.

Some coaches want to "run" a side. Some run neither. NONE "run" both. Coaching the team is tough enough.

Try to keep up.......

BD

Many coaches don't "run" either... but you just said that's not how football works.

You've completely contradicted your previous response. All 3 of the guys I brought up are complete head coaches, as I've explained. You are back-pedaling and telling ME to keep up only adds uninformed arrogance to your dense position.

STFU

You've proven to have no valid point of view.

BlackDynamite · November 26, 2012

Many coaches don't "run" either... but you just said that's not how football works.

You've completely contradicted your previous response. All 3 of the guys I brought up are complete head coaches, as I've explained. You are back-pedaling and telling ME to keep up only adds uninformed arrogance to your dense position.

STFU

You've proven to have no valid point of view.

Now you are just desperate. You got served.

Good day, sir.....

BD

Integrity28 · November 26, 2012

Now you are just desperate. You got served.

Good day, sir.....

BD

So you are a 15 year old white girl?

You are quite possibly the worst debater here. It's a good thing you over-compensate for that short-coming by starting as many sh*tty threads as you can every day.

Goofball.

BlackDynamite · November 26, 2012

So you are a 15 year old white girl?

You are quite possibly the worst debater here. It's a good thing you over-compensate for that short-coming by starting as many sh*tty threads as you can every day.

Goofball.

I SAID GOOD DAY!

BD

Lizard King · November 26, 2012

Is this a thread about buttseks?

Bugg · November 26, 2012

Is this a thread about buttseks?

Tony Dungy would not approve.

LionelRichie · November 26, 2012

Name me a available coach is is an offensive and defensive genius?

Coaches are just offensive, or defensive coordinators, who got a promotion.

HELLO? You play to win the game!

unbanmadmike1 · November 26, 2012

If they bring that overrated clown Tony Dungy here I might be done with the Jets for good.

Also BD coaches are NOT all just OC's or DC's that were promoted. How about a great college coach like Brian Kelly or David Shaw? Look at the job Harbaugh is doing in SF and Schiano in TB.

SayNoToDMC · November 26, 2012

I want to make a run at Joani Harbaugh. That family sh*ts victory and she's the only one not under contract. Even her husband is now coaching the number one team in college basketball.

Scott Dierking · November 26, 2012

I gave you two. Dungy and Cowher, I also added Andy Reid.

WTF are you talking about? All three have proven over multiple season that they can and do manage the WHOLE without a bias to one side of the ball, and without resting on the laurels of what they did as a coordinator/position coach as the strength that they bring to the table that outweighs short-comings in every other area of the team.

3 examples.

Not only did I prove you wrong. I also proved you don't have the courtesy (or ability) to read and comprehend the other side of a debate, and thus render yourself yet another moot poster here on the site.

Andy Reid had nothing to do with the Eagles defense. During their limelight years that was all Jim Johnson.

Reid is an offensive coach and veers to the passing game as much as Rex veers to the running game. he will get a QB killed with the Jets. i would want no part of him. Horrible game day manager and horrible with managing a clock.

Brilliant offensive coach, but stubborn

unbanmadmike1 · November 26, 2012

Andy Reid had nothing to do with the Eagles defense. During their limelight years that was all Jim Johnson.

Reid is an offensive coach and veers to the passing game as much as Rex veers to the running game. he will get a QB killed with the Jets. i would want no part of him. Horrible game day manager and horrible with managing a clock.

Brilliant offensive coach, but stubborn

If you give Reid an Oline starting with Moore, DBrick and Mangold he'll build a good offense. These D first "ground and pound" teams can't win in the NFL in 2012.

unbanmadmike1 · November 26, 2012

double post

Integrity28 · November 26, 2012

Andy Reid had nothing to do with the Eagles defense. During their limelight years that was all Jim Johnson.

Reid is an offensive coach and veers to the passing game as much as Rex veers to the running game. he will get a QB killed with the Jets. i would want no part of him. Horrible game day manager and horrible with managing a clock.

Brilliant offensive coach, but stubborn

Reid has a bias, as all coaches do. But in the role of head coach he takes care of the whole. Even if it's as simple as him working with Jim Johnson. Reid oversaw the whole operation.

It wasn't like what we have now with Rex basically being a defensive coordinator neglecting the whole.

It wasn't like what Dolemite is advocating we have with Gruden, and how he insists that all head coaches are only capable of coaching to the side of their bias. Reid, Dungy, Cowher are amongst a number of coaches that come up on one side of the ball, but when they take the helm of the whole team... they run the whole team.

Gruden was and is offense only. Monte Kiffin ran the D in Tampa that won the SB, and it was Dungy's defense... it functioned on it's own independent of what Gruden did. The Jets need whole leadership, experienced leadership... not just another over-promoted coordinator learning on the job, or like in Gruden's case, over-correcting one side of the ball while the other suffers.

In 3-4 years with Gruden we'd have a top 15 offense and a sh*t defense. Opposite of what we have now... but then the same in a lot of ways.

Jetscode1 · November 26, 2012

Reid has a bias, as all coaches do. But in the role of head coach he takes care of the whole. Even if it's as simple as him working with Jim Johnson. Reid oversaw the whole operation.

It wasn't like what we have now with Rex basically being a defensive coordinator neglecting the whole.

It wasn't like what Dolemite is advocating we have with Gruden, and how he insists that all head coaches are only capable of coaching to the side of their bias. Reid, Dungy, Cowher are amongst a number of coaches that come up on one side of the ball, but when they take the helm of the whole team... they run the whole team.

Gruden was and is offense only. Monte Kiffin ran the D in Tampa that won the SB, and it was Dungy's defense... it functioned on it's own independent of what Gruden did. The Jets need whole leadership, experienced leadership... not just another over-promoted coordinator learning on the job, or like in Gruden's case, over-correcting one side of the ball while the other suffers.

In 3-4 years with Gruden we'd have a top 15 offense and a sh*t defense. Opposite of what we have now... but then the same in a lot of ways.

I know you don't want Gruden...but wanted clarify this for the discussion...Gruden teams in Tampa Bay never finished in the top 15 for points scored in his seven years in Tampa Bay(18th, 18th, 23rd, 20th, 31st, 18th, 19th...he got lucky with a veteran QB in Oakland...Gannon fit the West Coast offense to a T...nice match...parlayed that into a fat contract with the Bucs...but never duplicated this accomplishment with the Bucs and/or any of the plethora of QBs he tried...he's overrated as an offensive guru.