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Debunking the "Same Old Jets" Myths


stoicsentry

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They stink right now, and there's nothing to indicate that without a major overhaul, that can change.

That's the sad truth and also why I'm hoping for the Marx Brothers Movie aka the New York Jets to continue for the rest of the season. This team is missing A LOT of talent to be consistently competitive and the current management/ownership got 2/3rd's of the way up the mountain and then fell off a cliff to crash and burn in the valley. Although that happened awhile ago, at least a few of them don't know it yet.

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Sure. Easier said than done, though. Not much out there.

I realize that...and thats been my point. The Jets look like they need an overhaul, when the reality is, QB is 75% of the equation and the fact they are so hard to find and the Jets especially suck at it, makes this team seem like it needs a drastic overhaul. Which I disagree with. Its a trickle down effect. When you're getting the worst play out of your QB in the league and he's your leader, sh*ts going to suck for that team. Period.

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I have fought with you on many of these points, but as I said in my other posts - the proof is in the product and right now it isn't very good. OTOH, I am sick of you posting the below. It is flat out bullsh*t and beyond tired.

Giving "C"'s out like they are candy is not the solve-all.

For one season he tried to use the "captain" title to have an immature but talented player act the part. It didn't work and this year he didn't appoint any captains. How is that "giving "C"'s out like they are candy?". How is it even something to complain about? I

I won't bother with the rest, like the bullsh*t about Buddy who was winning games in a division with Parcells and Gibbs.

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Keller will probably go? Okay. I'm okay with Reuland and Cumberland. I think they both do a decent job. Add one playmaker - even if it's Holmes getting off his ass and they are okay as TEs. I like Keller but didn't much like the pick because I believe the difference between a guy like Cumberland (or even Reuland who is close to dime a dozen) isn't worth the pick. Add 1 playmaker and the others are fine. Not easy, I know.

I will add that they will probably have to spend some money or a pick at RB because McKnight and Powell have been brittle and they aren't likely to pay Greene. They need upgrading at the position, though IMO all those guys belong in the league.

If I'm understanding this correctly Dom, you're saying that a physically and mentally healthy Holmes plus a Greene replacement will right this offense? (assuming that it's a given we need another, and functional QB)

I think that's way short of what's needed to give whoever (new) is going under center and this team a chance. Kerley looks like he's got the goods to be at least a jag and Cumberland can grab the ball pretty well (Rueland too except that's unchallenged as he's always open by 5 yards when the balls thrown to him) but even on his best games or string of games, Holmes really doesn't make better than avg grabs consistently. That's not enough for Brady or Rodgers to win and I'm not thinking we'll have that type of talent in the near future

On D I agree that we're 1 LB short except we need to get Kyle Wilson out of anything more responsible than a dime package ( assuming we let Revis walk)

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I have fought with you on many of these points, but as I said in my other posts - the proof is in the product and right now it isn't very good. OTOH, I am sick of you posting the below. It is flat out bullsh*t and beyond tired.

For one season he tried to use the "captain" title to have an immature but talented player act the part. It didn't work and this year he didn't appoint any captains. How is that "giving "C"'s out like they are candy?". How is it even something to complain about? I

I won't bother with the rest, like the bullsh*t about Buddy who was winning games in a division with Parcells and Gibbs.

The problem with handing out "C's" to players with undeserving qualities or character, shows you exactly how Rex leads- He expects that merely suggesting someone be a captain automatically elevates them to the position, both in the eyes of their teammates, and in the player's disposition.

It is lazy management. Here, you get a "C" because you are QB. You get a "C" because you got a high paid contract. You get a "C" because you bring me M&M's.

Rex has no clue what it takes for leadership with players, and how players need to be taught how to lead. Giving someone a title does not make them a leader. Nor does drafting a QB in the first round give you a franchise player for 15 years.

He seems unable to grasp these concepts. He is management and leadership bereft.

Those lack of qualities slowly permeate a club. And what you see on the field now is a result. You can get by faking it for a little while. Then it catches up. As stupid as Herm Edwards was at diagnosing football plays-he got this. Rex doesn't have this quality. He may be a good leader (I don't think he is), but he can't teach others to lead, which is very important.

Edit-Oh, and Buddy was so good at winning big games. Just like his daddy, Rex manages a portion of the team. The rest, he expects to fix itself.

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If I'm understanding this correctly Dom, you're saying that a physically and mentally healthy Holmes plus a Greene replacement will right this offense? (assuming that it's a given we need another, and functional QB)

I think that's way short of what's needed to give whoever (new) is going under center and this team a chance. Kerley looks like he's got the goods to be at least a jag and Cumberland can grab the ball pretty well (Rueland too except that's unchallenged as he's always open by 5 yards when the balls thrown to him) but even on his best games or string of games, Holmes really doesn't make better than avg grabs consistently. That's not enough for Brady or Rodgers to win and I'm not thinking we'll have that type of talent in the near future

On D I agree that we're 1 LB short except we need to get Kyle Wilson out of anything more responsible than a dime package ( assuming we let Revis walk)

Actually, I'm just saying that we aren't that many players away. We almost made it with Sanchez at QB. A better QB fixes almost everything. 1 WR stepping up can make everybody else look a ton better. 1 fast LB makes Pace look excellent. It's a team and I don't think they all fell apart. It's not easy to add a true playmaker or real deal QB, but with either the rest of these sh*theads might not be so sh*tty.

The problem with handing out "C's" to players with undeserving qualities or character, shows you exactly how Rex leads- He expects that merely suggesting someone be a captain automatically elevates them to the position, both in the eyes of their teammates, and in the player's disposition.

It is lazy management. Here, you get a "C" because you are QB. You get a "C" because you got a high paid contract. You get a "C" because you bring me M&M's.

Rex has no clue what it takes for leadership with players, and how players need to be taught how to lead. Giving someone a title does not make them a leader. Nor does drafting a QB in the first round give you a franchise player for 15 years.

He seems unable to grasp these concepts. He is management and leadership bereft.

Those lack of qualities slowly permeate a club. And what you see on the field now is a result. You can get by faking it for a little while. Then it catches up. As stupid as Herm Edwards was at diagnosing football plays-he got this. Rex doesn't have this quality. He may be a good leader (I don't think he is), but he can't teach others to lead, which is very important.

Edit-Oh, and Buddy was so good at winning big games. Just like his daddy, Rex manages a portion of the team. The rest, he expects to fix itself.

He coached the team for 4 years and gave out 1 questionable "C". Bereft!!

Yep. You got me. Rex can't win any big games.

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Actually, I'm just saying that we aren't that many players away. We almost made it with Sanchez at QB. A better QB fixes almost everything. 1 WR stepping up can make everybody else look a ton better. 1 fast LB makes Pace look excellent. It's a team and I don't think they all fell apart. It's not easy to add a true playmaker or real deal QB, but with either the rest of these sh*theads might not be so sh*tty.

He coached the team for 4 years and gave out 1 questionable "C". Bereft!!

Yep. You got me. Rex can't win any big games.

Ryan gave at "C"s to Holmes, Sanchez, Moore, Eric Smith, Pouha and Revis. Then, he took them all away.

It was great that Ryan went on a couple of runs, but fell short. But, I can't let the past cloud what I see on the field today-A team that is getting progressively worse, has not beaten a team with a winning record (finished with winning record) in almost 2 years, is debilitated in running an offense, coughs up 4th quarter leads with regularity on defense, is sinking fast with the only thing it could do well in the past (special teams), and appears to be getting worse.

Yeah, sign me up for more of this.

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Actually, I'm just saying that we aren't that many players away. We almost made it with Sanchez at QB. A better QB fixes almost everything. 1 WR stepping up can make everybody else look a ton better. 1 fast LB makes Pace look excellent. It's a team and I don't think they all fell apart. It's not easy to add a true playmaker or real deal QB, but with either the rest of these sh*theads might not be so sh*tty.

I like the D with Davis coming on and the addition another swift LB. I'd be all in for parlaying Revis into picks or a trade that could turn into a good QB. We would have to get another corner other than what's on the roster to fill his slot. We have only midgets and dumfk's after Cro - who is playing outstanding and I think likes his role as #1.

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Ryan gave at "C"s to Holmes, Sanchez, Moore, Eric Smith, Pouha and Revis. Then, he took them all away.

It was great that Ryan went on a couple of runs, but fell short. But, I can't let the past cloud what I see on the field today-A team that is getting progressively worse, has not beaten a team with a winning record (finished with winning record) in almost 2 years, is debilitated in running an offense, coughs up 4th quarter leads with regularity on defense, is sinking fast with the only thing it could do well in the past (special teams), and appears to be getting worse.

Yeah, sign me up for more of this.

i didn't ask you to sign on for more. I told you that your complaint about the C's is a joke. It is. Worse, it has been over and done for ages but you want to act like it has some bearing on our current situation.

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The problem with handing out "C's" to players with undeserving qualities or character, shows you exactly how Rex leads- He expects that merely suggesting someone be a captain automatically elevates them to the position, both in the eyes of their teammates, and in the player's disposition.

It is lazy management. Here, you get a "C" because you are QB. You get a "C" because you got a high paid contract. You get a "C" because you bring me M&M's.

Rex has no clue what it takes for leadership with players, and how players need to be taught how to lead. Giving someone a title does not make them a leader. Nor does drafting a QB in the first round give you a franchise player for 15 years.

He seems unable to grasp these concepts. He is management and leadership bereft.

Those lack of qualities slowly permeate a club. And what you see on the field now is a result. You can get by faking it for a little while. Then it catches up. As stupid as Herm Edwards was at diagnosing football plays-he got this. Rex doesn't have this quality. He may be a good leader (I don't think he is), but he can't teach others to lead, which is very important.

Edit-Oh, and Buddy was so good at winning big games. Just like his daddy, Rex manages a portion of the team. The rest, he expects to fix itself.

very well said IMO.
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i didn't ask you to sign on for more. I told you that your complaint about the C's is a joke. It is. Worse, it has been over and done for ages but you want to act like it has some bearing on our current situation.

i totally think it's a perfect microcosm to what the larger issues are. I think Scott nailed it. I think intangibles, chemistry and karma can totally make or break a pro team when there's such a fine line between elite athletes.

Emotional intellegence, IMO, is what separates great coaches from the rest.

Talent and luck are just as important of course but I personally wouldn't discount what Scott's talking about.

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how surprising we get an article on how it's the fans fault...that we should understand their complete inability to build an entertaining product...that we've been branded...stay loyal...send us your money...and we will continue to boor you with the same uninteresting product...

How come we don't see these type of article when its the Steelers, Patriots or Ravens, 49ers when they are having a down year?

Because they're run by competent GMs and coaches. Which could happen with the Jets but only if Johnson wakes the f___ up. basic idea of the article-the Jets aren't as crappy as the Bills, Jags, Dolphins and Browns over the long-term. Break out freaking champagne-we don't suck as much as (enter name of another badly-run NFL franchise).

I don't want to be an internet tough guy and tell anyone where to go; we are not 14-year olds in a schoolyard. But stoic's entries are now the stuff of Bagdad Bob unintentional comedy.

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I consider myself to be an optimistic fan.

But, the incarnation of this current team gives me little to be optimistic about for the future. The reason more so than any other is its leadership. Or lack thereof.

Tannebaum seems to be unqualified in running the business of a football team and building it. He is not a talent evaluator and does not understood the intricacies of putting a football team together. Of a philosophy of building an organization. His is a world of numbers and metrics, which do not shape football teams with talent.

Rex Ryan seems unqualified to lead a full team. He might have inherited this gene from his daddy, who was ill equipped to be able to maturely lead separate units and manage them to mesh as a TEAM. Rex seems baffled when young men act out of immaturity to the detriment of the team. What he does not realize is that young men need to be molded and mentored in how to perform as a football team. Giving "C"'s out like they are candy is not the solve-all.

Rex is the ultimate "player's coach" who have a short shelf in terms of respect earned and demanded. The Jets are your typical "little league" team where playing time is earned by if you are friendly with the coach, or you are a "legacy". To be dislodged is simply an act that Rex is unable to bring himself to. Too many hurt feelings, which he seems to try and avoid.

Accountability has no place on the Jets, unless you want to shorten its root word to what our GM is good at.

Call me the "SOJ" if you will, but this is a tough team to watch. Even worse, it is a tough team to like because I know the GM and HC are both incompetent. And their incompetency makes it hard for potential "feel-good" stories from unlikely heroes. The Jets HC staff does not like unlikely heroes, because they are so enthralled with status quo-"Hey, this is a group that took us to 2 AFCCG's".

That is their fool's gold. I refuse to make it mine and smile in the face of stupidity.

One thing about Thursday; Ryan views it more important to be pals with and promote Mark Sanchez than to be head coach of a football team. Having no viable backup available is incompetence and malfeasance. And he did it out of some misplaced loyalty to a player he refuses to hold accountable.
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i didn't ask you to sign on for more. I told you that your complaint about the C's is a joke. It is. Worse, it has been over and done for ages but you want to act like it has some bearing on our current situation.

Well, this current situation aint so good, so I will tell you that Rex does not have a good handle on 52 players and the temperament of his team. "C"s are only part of the problem, but insightful to how clueless Rex is.

Have we even heard for sure if he knew his back-up qb had broken ribs on Thursday?

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http://fifthdown.blo...-old-jets-myth/

This is a great article, it really shows why the Jets fan base is so terrible... completely blind to reality. But unlike Bills fans who are hopelessly optimistic without good reason, Jets fans are hopelessly pessimistic without good reason.

ZERO Super Bowl appearances. Nada. None. Zip.

Thats the reality. Who gives a sh!t how many winning seasons we've had? We've done nothing with them. F#ck the pansy asses that accept mediocrity out of their team and make excuses for the team. Not making 1 f@cking super bowl in 40 years is a f#cking joke. Until then, they can suck a fat one.

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Well, this current situation aint so good, so I will tell you that Rex does not have a good handle on 52 players and the temperament of his team. "C"s are only part of the problem, but insightful to how clueless Rex is.

Have we even heard for sure if he knew his back-up qb had broken ribs on Thursday?

Does Belichick announce the true status of Brady's injuries every week? He talks says everything so he is an idiot, then you want to crucify him for not telling you everything. Damned if he do and damned if he don't.

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i totally think it's a perfect microcosm to what the larger issues are. I think Scott nailed it. I think intangibles, chemistry and karma can totally make or break a pro team when there's such a fine line between elite athletes.

Emotional intellegence, IMO, is what separates great coaches from the rest.

Talent and luck are just as important of course but I personally wouldn't discount what Scott's talking about.

All true, but when he took those same sh*theads Mangini had and got them so close it was the same thing. Do you give him a chance to grow or cry about it and fire everybody the second there is some adversity? All the same sh*t could have been said about Cowher. Remember "Slash"? Guys were complaining about him not putting the best QB on the field.

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Does Belichick announce the true status of Brady's injuries every week? He talks says everything so he is an idiot, then you want to crucify him for not telling you everything. Damned if he do and damned if he don't.

The issue is, if Ryan did know that Tebow had broken ribs, why did he suit him up and make him the #2? Why have McElroy inactive, leaving the team with no viable back-up to Sanchez?

If Ryan didn't know about the ribs, WTF?

Either way, he looks pretty stupid.

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All true, but when he took those same sh*theads Mangini had and got them so close it was the same thing. Do you give him a chance to grow or cry about it and fire everybody the second there is some adversity? All the same sh*t could have been said about Cowher. Remember "Slash"? Guys were complaining about him not putting the best QB on the field.

Rex Ryan is not Bill Cowher, lets get that out to start. Cowher never had the circus mentality that Ryan has created. Cowher never had the idiotic bravado that Ryan has, that places a target on the Jets. Cowher actually had a pulse of his locker room and did not look to create divisions.

Please do not make Rex Ryan out to be Bill Cowher. And Cowher is not even an all-timer, in my mind.

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The issue is, if Ryan did know that Tebow had broken ribs, why did he suit him up and make him the #2? Why have McElroy inactive, leaving the team with no viable back-up to Sanchez?

If Ryan didn't know about the ribs, WTF?

Either way, he looks pretty stupid.

The issue is that you want to make him out to be an idiot. It's about the record not your perception.

Tebow was listed as questionable with a rib ailment all week. He got hurt against the Seahawks, kept playing and played with it against the Rams. Let's not act like he is the first guy wtih broken ribs that might have to play a football game. Let's also not act like Tebow with broken ribs can't be a better option than McElroy.

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Rex Ryan is not Bill Cowher, lets get that out to start. Cowher never had the circus mentality that Ryan has created. Cowher never had the idiotic bravado that Ryan has, that places a target on the Jets. Cowher actually had a pulse of his locker room and did not look to create divisions.

Please do not make Rex Ryan out to be Bill Cowher. And Cowher is not even an all-timer, in my mind.

Yes. A quivering chin makes all the difference. In both of these cases you have completely missed my point. Cowher and Rex are very different, but you keep acting like good (or great) coaches don't do any of these things. The media and you make Rex out to be a clown, so that means he doesn't know Tebow is hurt. He doesn't have his finger on the pulse of the team. It's all bullsh*t.

That is not working so well for him right now.

Duh. That's my point. The reason to get rid of him is what happens on the field. Right now it's not good. That's enough. I believe he can turn it around. Maybe he can't. Who got the "C" in 2011 has nothing to do with it. There is enough currently going wrong to complain about.

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Yes. A quivering chin makes all the difference. In both of these cases you have completely missed my point. Cowher and Rex are very different, but you keep acting like good (or great) coaches don't do any of these things. The media and you make Rex out to be a clown, so that means he doesn't know Tebow is hurt. He doesn't have his finger on the pulse of the team. It's all bullsh*t.

Duh. That's my point. The reason to get rid of him is what happens on the field. Right now it's not good. That's enough. I believe he can turn it around. Maybe he can't. Who got the "C" in 2011 has nothing to do with it. There is enough currently going wrong to complain about.

So, not having a viable back-up qb going into a game with team ;leading your division is ok with you? You think that is a smart approach?

If the record were bad, and the HC was at least tactical and had leaderships qualities, I could stomach the valley. But Rex does not have those, so along with the downturn in record it has to also be pointed out that he is clueless.

If that hurts, I am sorry

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So, not having a viable back-up qb going into a game with team ;leading your division is ok with you? You think that is a smart approach?

What exactly is this great backup QB controversy? Was McElroy at home in his pajamas, or was he just listed as the emergency QB? Because if it's the latter, what's the big deal? Tebow's available to run a play or two if Sanchez gets dinged, and McElroy is available is Sanchez is knocked out.

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What exactly is this great backup QB controversy? Was McElroy at home in his pajamas, or was he just listed as the emergency QB? Because if it's the latter, what's the big deal? Tebow's available to run a play or two if Sanchez gets dinged, and McElroy is available is Sanchez is knocked out.

McElroy was INACTIVE, so he was not doing anyone any good. Great idea, huh?

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What exactly is this great backup QB controversy? Was McElroy at home in his pajamas, or was he just listed as the emergency QB? Because if it's the latter, what's the big deal? Tebow's available to run a play or two if Sanchez gets dinged, and McElroy is available is Sanchez is knocked out.

The 3rd QB thing is no longer applicable. Either a player, be it a QB or any other, is on the active roster or he cannot play. It was changed in 2011-

http://profootballta...rs-on-game-day/

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