I want Sanchez to keep his starting job the rest of the season

[CrazyCarl40]

Fans can't force a coaching change or a front-office change or a personnel change either. Maybe Max should just sell the server space to Go Daddy and we should all sit on our hands and nod silently as events continue to spiral further and further out of our control.

I'm down, if there is punch and pie.

[SayNoToDMC]

It is possible for the coaching staff to be clueless and McElroy to stink. It's not like proving one proves the other.

I never suggested he's any good. I'm not advocating for anything other then not continually marching Mark Sanchez out there when he's running face first into the ass of 300 pound lineman.

[T0mShane]

I don't want to get into the Woody bashing game cause he doesn't meddle in football operations. That's usually a good trait for an owner.

STOP SMOKING THE RESIN

[CrazyCarl40]

Just because you keep pushing this doesn't make it more true.

Its called a sunk cost and "businessmen" recognize that.

You do realize that Sanchez' deal is that if he is cut the Jets have to cut him his salary in full right then and there, right? I don't care who you are cutting a check for 8 plus million dollars for someone to go play for another team isn't something you want to do.

[ZachEY]

You do realize that Sanchez' deal is that if he is cut the Jets have to cut him his salary in full right then and there, right? I don't care who you are cutting a check for 8 plus million dollars for someone to go play for another team isn't something you want to do.

I mean, I think it's worth 8 Million Dollars to have Sanchez play for another team. I wonder if there's a collection I could start.

[HessStation]

I'm starting think none of this is his fault.

[StraightCash]

You do realize that Sanchez' deal is that if he is cut the Jets have to cut him his salary in full right then and there, right? I don't care who you are cutting a check for 8 plus million dollars for someone to go play for another team isn't something you want to do.

Exactly. The money is lost no matter what Woody decides, its gone, hence there is no reason to let the money influence Woodys decision making.

[CrazyCarl40]

Exactly. The money is lost no matter what Woody decides, its gone, hence there is no reason to let the money influence Woodys decision making.

What you're not grasping here is if you cut Sanchez he counts a ton against the cap and the jets won't be able to bring in any sort of #1 QB to replace him. Not that he is a number one QB, but there isn't one on this roster or available in the offseason as it is. It's better to just bring him back an bite the bullet. The Jets are up against it when it comes to the cap so there is no need to make things worse by cutting Sanchez.

[StraightCash]

What you're not grasping here is if you cut Sanchez he counts a ton against the cap and the jets won't be able to bring in any sort of #1 QB to replace him. Not that he is a number one QB, but there isn't one on this roster or available in the offseason as it is. It's better to just bring him back an bite the bullet. The Jets are up against it when it comes to the cap so there is no need to make things worse by cutting Sanchez.

You really think I'm not grasping that?

This conversation is about benching Sanchez not cutting Sanchez. Even if it was cutting Sanchez, thats fine. He's dead weight no matter what, and is so awful I don't even want him as a backup. All he is now is a distraction and roadblock from moving forward.

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't want to get into the Woody bashing game cause he doesn't meddle in football operations. That's usually a good trait for an owner.

If Woody ran the team like Paul Brown (or how Al Davis used to do, and Jerry Jones still does) I could get into that mode of bashing Woody. But that's a futile game, it's pointless. Fans can't force an ownership change.

And it's not fair to Woody. He's not even Meddling. the worst offense he made was hiring Tanny? Look at Tanny's resume he was in the room with alot of famous football people. He did a decent job for a while and probably will do a decent job somewhere else. He's not Ron Wolf or a difference maker and that can be said about the Jets at every key position from owner, gm, hc and Qb. the franchise needs a difference maker on some level.

As for woody himself he's a little snake bit for a billionaire, but hes not the problem with the Jets.

I don't know. He's already gone on record as saying Tebow will be back next season. Given the controversy and attention over the team's #2 "QB" an owner doesn't get that much more meddling than that. How about just saying he has confidence in his GM and HC and he trusts them to make decisions on individual players. He's also said (after the 2008 season) he would never again allow the Jets to have a non-"name" QB. Sanchez and Tebow are definitely "name" players.

Secondly, that wasn't what I found funny, as I wasn't even commenting on meddling. If anything, you were the one alluding to Johnson meddling by saying he - as a businessman - wouldn't allow Sanchez to sit on the bench because he was paying him so much. I merely said I didn't know if that was so, since Sanchez's failures are weekly, very public and constant-news reminders of the embarrassment of paying him so much.

[unbanmadmike1]

I don't want to get into the Woody bashing game cause he doesn't meddle in football operations. That's usually a good trait for an owner.

If Woody ran the team like Paul Brown (or how Al Davis used to do, and Jerry Jones still does) I could get into that mode of bashing Woody. But that's a futile game, it's pointless. Fans can't force an ownership change.

And it's not fair to Woody. He's not even Meddling. the worst offense he made was hiring Tanny? Look at Tanny's resume he was in the room with alot of famous football people. He did a decent job for a while and probably will do a decent job somewhere else. He's not Ron Wolf or a difference maker and that can be said about the Jets at every key position from owner, gm, hc and Qb. the franchise needs a difference maker on some level.

As for woody himself he's a little snake bit for a billionaire, but hes not the problem with the Jets.

If he doesn't meddle why is Tebow here?

[CrazyCarl40]

You really think I'm not grasping that?

This conversation is about benching Sanchez not cutting Sanchez. Even if it was cutting Sanchez, thats fine. He's dead weight no matter what, and is so awful I don't even want him as a backup. All he is now is a distraction and roadblock from moving forward.

A distraction and a roadblock from moving forward sounds like a plethora of players on this team. You only bench your starting QB when you have a viable option behind him. There isn't one. You bench him for someone worse an you're making things worse for 2013 because then you have to go back to him to start next season.

[bitonti]

If he doesn't meddle why is Tebow here?

the team is better with him than without him. If Mark gets hurt, I'd rather see Tebow than Mark Brunnell or Greg McElroy.

[bitonti]

Just because you keep pushing this doesn't make it more true.

Its called a sunk cost and "businessmen" recognize that.

a sunk cost is money already paid. what sanchez is due is money yet to be paid. that's the dictionary definition of sunk cost, it has to have happened in the past.

if you treat future payments as sunk cost, that's not accurate. those are prospective costs. the fact that they are guarunteed kinda makes them sunk... but the fact of the matter is it's not sunk until it happens, and even for a billionaire that's alot of money to plan to flush down the toilet.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Sunk_costs

[bitonti]

Given the controversy and attention over the team's #2 "QB" an owner doesn't get that much more meddling than that.

people make a big deal out of the controversy but if it wasn't Tebow it would be something else. the team always has controversy. Mark is getting paid huge money he can't use the controversy as an excuse (nor would he).

. If anything, you were the one alluding to Johnson meddling by saying he - as a businessman - wouldn't allow Sanchez to sit on the bench because he was paying him so much. I merely said I didn't know if that was so, since Sanchez's failures are weekly, very public and constant-news reminders of the embarrassment of paying him so much.

In the circles Woody runs in, it's more embarrassing to knowingly eat 10 million dollars than to lose. as for his business acumen I agree that's up for debate, was using the word to describe a mindset. There are many owners of losing football teams, 31 every year in fact.

[ZachEY]

a sunk cost is money already paid. what sanchez is due is money yet to be paid. that's the dictionary definition of sunk cost, it has to have happened in the past.

if you treat future payments as sunk cost, that's not accurate. those are prospective costs. the fact that they are guarunteed kinda makes them sunk... but the fact of the matter is it's not sunk until it happens, and even for a billionaire that's alot of money to plan to flush down the toilet.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Sunk_costs

Yes, but whether or not Mark is the QB, that money is already wasted. There's no way to avoid the cost, so it's as good as sunk. Just like next season if he starts.

[Gastineau Lives]

Yep, the receivers have been getting separation all season.

Actually, they have. I've watched ever single one of them ever game. Poured over the tapes and yep, they totally have. They are not the reason he fumbles every third sack or has no feel for the game whatsoever.

[Gastineau Lives]

A distraction and a roadblock from moving forward sounds like a plethora of players on this team. You only bench your starting QB when you have a viable option behind him. There isn't one. You bench him for someone worse an you're making things worse for 2013 because then you have to go back to him to start next season.

Tebow isn't worse. There is no worse. What would worse look like to you, beyond the embarrassment that Sanchez has been this year? You mean there's a worse than that? I don't believe it.

Justification of that horrific contract is the only reason he still plays. Not football. Money and saving face for Tanny.

[SenorGato]

I too think he should start all the games this year. At the worst I'm entertained by his gar-bahge play when I see it, and best case is some kind of heroic turnaround that won't happen.

It's his last open shot here.

[cr726]

Actually, they have. I've watched ever single one of them ever game. Poured over the tapes and yep, they totally have. They are not the reason he fumbles every third sack or has no feel for the game whatsoever.

You're high.

[cr726]

Tebow isn't worse. There is no worse. What would worse look like to you, beyond the embarrassment that Sanchez has been this year? You mean there's a worse than that? I don't believe it.

Justification of that horrific contract is the only reason he still plays. Not football. Money and saving face for Tanny.

Unbiased and obviously an educated viewpoint.

[Sperm Edwards]

people make a big deal out of the controversy but if it wasn't Tebow it would be something else. the team always has controversy. Mark is getting paid huge money he can't use the controversy as an excuse (nor would he).

First off, Tebow is not like other controversies. I know you know that. He is a lightning bolt of attention unlike any backup QB in memory. What other backup QB gets worldwide attention? In the history of the sport, what other unskilled backup QB has ever garnered worldwide attention as a backup QB?

In the circles Woody runs in, it's more embarrassing to knowingly eat 10 million dollars than to lose. as for his business acumen I agree that's up for debate, was using the word to describe a mindset. There are many owners of losing football teams, 31 every year in fact.

This is your assumption, and I have no idea why you would think this. This assumption of yours is based on absolutely nothing since you clearly aren't in Woody's circles, as much as you're talking like an authority on the subject.

Woody's pissed away a hell of a lot more than $10M (something like 7x that while lobbying unsuccessfully for the WSS, for example, and coming up short because he lost a fight to another billionaire's lobbying efforts). It's one thing to piss it away, and another thing to piss it away and have it as a weekly, humiliating advertisement getting attention and mocking headlines for yet another year. Woody may crave headlines but I've seen no indication he wants that type.

I totally disagree with it partly because of how he came into his money. If he made his fortune himself then he'd want to see a return on what he's paying for. Far more than someone whose greatest personal accomplishment to date is still being the spermatocyte who, during its 5-day lifespan, happened to be in pole position in one of a hundred-thousand batches of his dad's spunk.

The other reason I disagree this line of thinking is, if anything, a powerful person/boss like Woody would want to show his circle of friends - if he cares about their opinions as you intimated - that he's the boss, by showing the everyone he doesn't care how much he's paid Sanchez; he'll still fire or demote him for being a crappy employee. $10M is a lot of cash, even to Woody Johnson, but it isn't enough "in the circles Woody runs in" to show that circle of friends that the tail wags the dog. That he's a powerless slave to circumstance because of an expense that doesn't affect his lifestyle one iota.

I mean you couldn't possibly be more wrong. This is the logic that would be employed by someone who is not "in the circles Woody runs in."

[bitonti]

This is your assumption, and I have no idea why you would think this. This assumption of yours is based on absolutely nothing since you clearly aren't in Woody's circles, as much as you're talking like an authority on the subject.

i went to school with guys like woody (or woody's late daughter more accurately) and i currently work on Wall St. i see the mindset. It's one thing to try and fail it's another thing to just waste money for spite. Paying Mark 10 mill to play for another team or sit the bench is never gonna happen. you can believe me or not. I am not saying it's right or fair, or what I would do. i'm saying it's a likely outcome.

[Gastineau Lives]

Unbiased and obviously an educated viewpoint.

Did I not ask you a question? What would worse look like to you? Be specific, since you obviously have gone to school on this.

[cr726]

Did I not ask you a question? What would worse look like to you? Be specific, since you obviously have gone to school on this.

Sanchez is a middle of the pack QB with no running game and sh*tty WR's.

[slats]

i went to school with guys like woody (or woody's late daughter more accurately) and i currently work on Wall St. i see the mindset. It's one thing to try and fail it's another thing to just waste money for spite. Paying Mark 10 mill to play for another team or sit the bench is never gonna happen. you can believe me or not. I am not saying it's right or fair, or what I would do. i'm saying it's a likely outcome.

It's $8.25M next year.

Woody may not or may not agree to a deal where he's paying the bulk of that salary while Sanchez plays elsewhere, but there's no doubt on my mind that if Sanchez is still on the roster next year, that -at best- he'll be in a competition for the starting job.

If you believe yourself when you say that that Woody doesn't interfere with football operations, how can you possibly say that he won't allow his head coach to bench him?

[bitonti]

If you believe yourself when you say that that Woody doesn't interfere with football operations, how can you possibly say that he won't allow his head coach to bench him?

Rex can bench him. He just doesn't have any better options. Woody isn't gonna approve another 10 million dollar QB when there's one here already. In 2014, he will. Woody isn't gonna cut Sanchez and eat that 10 mil, and sign another big money guy for 2013.

I know how bad Mark has played. But Sanchez is the best QB on the roster now and in 2013. Not saying a whole lot but it's true.

Rex can do what he likes but benching Mark for Tim or Mark for Greg is not a clear upgrade. Desperate message board posters might hope it is but watch these guys in practice it's pretty clear.

[slats]

Rex can bench him. He just doesn't have any better options. Woody isn't gonna approve another 10 million dollar QB when there's one here already. In 2014, he will. Woody isn't gonna cut Sanchez and eat that 10 mil, and sign another big money guy for 2013.

I know how bad Mark has played. But Sanchez is the best QB on the roster now and in 2013. Not saying a whole lot but it's true.

Rex can do what he likes but benching Mark for Tim or Mark for Greg is not a clear upgrade. Desperate message board posters might hope it is but watch these guys in practice it's pretty clear.

That's a whole 'nother story. Whatever the Jets do with Sanchez's contract, short of extending him again, they simply will not have the money to sign another big name QB.

I think it's Tebow's contract -not Sanchez's- that's kept Sanchez on the field. They are in such dire straits cap wise that they simply can't afford to let Tebow hit his incentives, and have his salary increase by $5M next year. If those orders are coming from anywhere, it's probably Tannenbaum.

Next year, Tim and Sanchez can have an open competition. There's also nothing stopping the team from drafting another QB high to compete as well. I don't think the Sanchez contract stops them from doing any of that.

[bitonti]

Next year, Tim and Sanchez can have an open competition. There's also nothing stopping the team from drafting another QB high to compete as well. I don't think the Sanchez contract stops them from doing any of that.

didn't they have a competition this year? It lasted like 5 minutes. I agree they might draft a QB in rd 2 there are gonna be some interesting non-first round names.

[slats]

didn't they have a competition this year? It lasted like 5 minutes. I agree they might draft a QB in rd 2 there are gonna be some interesting non-first round names.

They did not have a competition. Sanchez was named the starter, period. I tend to buy into the theory that Tebow's escalators are the primary culprit keeping him on the bench. Unfortunately for him, at the point the Jets might be ready to turn to him -without having to give him a fat raise- he's got broken ribs.

At a certain point, it just won't matter anymore if Tebow sucks in practice if Sanchez continues to suck in games.

[dbatesman]

a sunk cost is money already paid. what sanchez is due is money yet to be paid. that's the dictionary definition of sunk cost, it has to have happened in the past.

if you treat future payments as sunk cost, that's not accurate. those are prospective costs. the fact that they are guarunteed kinda makes them sunk... but the fact of the matter is it's not sunk until it happens, and even for a billionaire that's alot of money to plan to flush down the toilet.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Sunk_costs

Cute, but Sanchez's money is guaranteed. Just because the team hasn't physically cut the checks yet doesn't mean the money's not already spent.

[bitonti]

Cute, but Sanchez's money is guaranteed. Just because the team hasn't physically cut the checks yet doesn't mean the money's not already spent.

there is a difference between sunk cost and guaranteed prospective cost. For example the Jets could make improvements around the team knowing that the QB will be 6.

[Gastineau Lives]

Sanchez is a middle of the pack QB with no running game and sh*tty WR's.

Then how do you explain his previous three seasons?

[cr726]

Then how do you explain his previous three seasons?

They could run the ball.

[ZachEY]

Sanchez is a middle of the pack QB with no running game and sh*tty WR's.

Sanchez was barely a middle of the pack QB when he had the leagues best running game and the leagues best defense.

Now, with poor weapons, he's cemented himself as one of the 3 or 4 worst, and possibly the worst starter in the league.