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Does the Head Coach even matter?


LionelRichie

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Is it the HC, the players, or just the QB that matters most?

If the Jets had another HC this year would they have won any more games with Sanchez as QB? Bellichick wasn't really special until Mo Lewis broke Bledsoe. Was Holmgren a genius or did he just have Brett Favre in his prime?

I think on the extremes coaches can make a 1 or 2 game difference - Parcells on the + side, guys like Herm, morningwieg, or Wandstedt on the minus side but for the most part it comes down to players and specifically the QB.

Would a different coach have made a difference in the 2012 Jets?

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Is it the HC, the players, or just the QB that matters most?

If the Jets had another HC this year would they have won any more games with Sanchez as QB? Bellichick wasn't really special until Mo Lewis broke Bledsoe. Was Holmgren a genius or did he just have Brett Favre in his prime?

I think on the extremes coaches can make a 1 or 2 game difference - Parcells on the + side, guys like Herm, morningwieg, or Wandstedt on the minus side but for the most part it comes down to players and specifically the QB.

Would a different coach have made a difference in the 2012 Jets?

I am in the corner of HC's matter significantly, when comparing the difference between a Kotite, and a Parcells, and more recently Singletary, and Harbaugh, both proved a different HC could take the same talent, and make them a winner instead of a joke.

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I am in the corner of HC's matter significantly, when comparing the difference between a Kotite, and a Parcells, and more recently Singletary, and Harbaugh, both proved a different HC could take the same talent, and make them a winner instead of a joke.

The Jets have maybe 2 or 3 players at MOST that could start on the 49ers.

Singletary may be a terrible HC but let's not pretend that Harbaugh is making chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. The 49ers arguable have the most talented top to bottom roster in the NFL.

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I am in the corner that most HCs don't matter. Coaches coach and players play. I don't believe that Belly coaching this exact Jets squad (with the same players, getting injured at the same time) equates more victories. It's all hype, that a great coach can make chicken salad out of you know what. Doesn't happen... not anymore. Franchise QB's are what it's all about. Coaches are secondary.

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Is it the HC, the players, or just the QB that matters most?

If the Jets had another HC this year would they have won any more games with Sanchez as QB? Bellichick wasn't really special until Mo Lewis broke Bledsoe. Was Holmgren a genius or did he just have Brett Favre in his prime?

I think on the extremes coaches can make a 1 or 2 game difference - Parcells on the + side, guys like Herm, morningwieg, or Wandstedt on the minus side but for the most part it comes down to players and specifically the QB.

Would a different coach have made a difference in the 2012 Jets?

i believe its more the spark that a head coach brings then actually who coaches it. Its all the players though. If you have a good QB leader and a good defensive leader the coach is irrelevant except for the player buying in.

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The Jets have maybe 2 or 3 players at MOST that could start on the 49ers.

Singletary may be a terrible HC but let's not pretend that Harbaugh is making chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. The 49ers arguable have the most talented top to bottom roster in the NFL.

Yes they do, and outside of A Smith, they had the exact same talent level that Singletary coached to a 5-11 record, so what's that tell you? HC matters!

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Coaches set the tone and the style. Of course they matter.

Are you going to equate Parcells with Kotite?

If you look at my initial post I said guys like Parcells are the exception. Parcells won with Hostetler, Vinny, and Ray Lucas - enough said.

That being said, there are only a handful of Parcells or Kotite type coaches. The rest fall somewhere in the middle and depend on either a great QB or a great Defense. When a head coach gets a great QB AND a great defense they are pretty much unbeatable.

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If you look at my initial post I said guys like Parcells are the exception. Parcells won with Hostetler, Vinny, and Ray Lucas - enough said.

That being said, there are only a handful of Parcells or Kotite type coaches. The rest fall somewhere in the middle and depend on either a great QB or a great Defense. When a head coach gets a great QB AND a great defense they are pretty much unbeatable.

The fact is, there are rare "great" coaches in the league. But, there is also a separation between the rest of the dregs. You also need to pick your poison-Are you going to go with a defensive style coach, offensive style coach, "players" coach, disciplinarian, motivator, x's and o's specialist, etc, etc.

That is where the Jets keep failing-wrong style at the wrong time, for the wrong reasons.

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There may not be a huge difference in the skill of the coaches in the league, but timing plays an enormous part. You have to get the right guy at the right time. Even the wrong guy at the right time can win - say Gruden. One of the keys IMO is holding on the talented guys. A guy like Rex can go in either direction. He could be a lunatic that keeps on thinking that he can win with Sanchez and sticks with "his guys" through thick and thin - even when the suck. He also could be trying to keep the team together and there might not be any answers on this roster. Trying doesn't matter though, we need success.

I don't have a huge problem with him sticking with these guys through this season, but heads have to roll this offseason because too many people are underperforming and while Sanchez sucking may be the #1 culprit that doesn't let the rest off the hook.

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that being said there are such a thing as bad coaches like Ray Handley and Herman Edwards. The head coaches basically set the tone and that is important. THe gameday aspect of head coaching is significant as well. Coaches can cost wins.

Rex is competent, but not amazing. I'm ok with that. To answer the larger question do coaches matter, yes it does matter in that you need a good one like you need a good kicker etc. But it's not as important as the players, JMO. on the pro level most of the coaching is competent but only a few of the players are special.

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that being said there are such a thing as bad coaches like Ray Handley and Herman Edwards. The head coaches basically set the tone and that is important. THe gameday aspect of head coaching is significant as well. Coaches can cost wins.

Rex is competent, but not amazing. I'm ok with that. To answer the larger question do coaches matter, yes it does matter in that you need a good one like you need a good kicker etc. But it's not as important as the players, JMO. on the pro level most of the coaching is competent but only a few of the players are special.

Making ground and pound your offense is bad coaching in 2012. Also, the Jets have had a mess of defense-oriented head coaches in a row in a league where big picture offense in general and quality QB play especially wins. I really don't get is how anyone could be an NFL HC and not know how timeouts and challenges work. Or getting plays called and packages in and out quickly and competently. And you see it here and elsewhere every week.

In 2012 though QB is key. Don't know how you wiff on Sanchez nor then sincr at least last year how you don't do everything you can to get a competent replacement. If we had kept Stanton perhaps this would have been a very different season. And yet for 4 years the Jets have not had a plausible alternative to Sanchez, nor even a decent backup. The didn't kick the tires on Matt Flynn, they didn't push very hard for Manning, they didn't try to pry Brees out of NO, and they didn't look into drafting Kapernick or anyone else.At the most important spot on an a NFL team in 2012(and going back 3 seasons)the Jets have completely shart themselves in every way and walk around pretendingt there is no bad smell and no brown stain. In short the GM and his chief scout are collasally sh*tty at their jobs. And when Rex Ryan babbles again this Sunday about Pick 6 giving him the best chance to win he needs to be fired and hit repeatedly with a blunt object until he shuts the ___up.

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Might not agree with all of this. But QB is very important. What ever bad taste Favre left here, the Jets were a little too quick to dismiss Peyton Manning (and Brees) as a possibility. Plain and simple Sanchez sucks. Pretending otherwise again tells us the Jets are run by fools. Instead they were busy extending Harris and Sanchez to insane contracts and, and drafting more DL guys who cannot get on the field and trading up in the 2nd round for a "project".Also doing the seminannual grovel to Revis. Great job, guys!

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1210632

If NY Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum had signed Peyton Manning, Gang Green could be enjoying its season

Imagine: The fans at MetLife Stadium are chanting nice things at the Jets as they walk triumphantly off the field, and there is no Mark Sanchez/Tim Tebow debate

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

sanchez-manning.jpg

Art by New York Daily News

Mark Sanchez? Forget about it! In this alternate reality, Peyton Manning is taking charge.

Soft-focus your brain, if that is still possible in the age of high-definition television. Imagine for a moment that Peyton Manning is the Jet quarterback, having signed a five-year deal with Mike Tannenbaum back in March.

Now: The fans at MetLife Stadium are chanting nice things at the Jets as they walk triumphantly off the field, moving to 8-3 and a game ahead of the Patriots in the AFC East. Bart Scott is high-fiving a supporter on his way through the tunnel, laughing and sharing stories. Rex Ryan is guaranteeing a Super Bowl, just like in the good old days. The crowds are spelling out J-E-T-S, squarely behind Fireman Ed instead of forcing him out of the business.

Best of all, there is no Tim Tebow/Mark Sanchez debate. There isn’t even a Tebow or Sanchez to be found on the roster.

It all might have happened, if only Manning had embarked on a New York adventure, which was really the last chance for the Jets to rescue their season and possibly this entire regime. All the losing that followed is a predictable shortfall of offensive talent and unimaginative play-calling. There is nothing surprising about the Jets’ unraveling. They are merely living down to their preseason clips.

You may remember: The Jets gave it a shot, approached Manning. They’d freed up an extra $7 million by restructuring D’Brickashaw Ferguson’s contract. On Thursday, Ferguson was remembering at his locker that what he did then in that agreement wasn’t only supposed to be good for him, it was going to be good for the team.

But Peyton quickly told the Jet contacts to forget it, never led them on. Maybe that was because his brother was already in town or maybe it was because he didn’t like what he saw in this organization. Ryan isn’t exactly a perfect fit for an aggressive quarterback and the roster lacked breakout receivers. The locker room is the Big Apple Circus, minus the big-play acrobats. The Jets were rebuffed, and there was probably nothing Ryan, Tannenbaum or Woody Johnson could have done about it.

Still, they might have groveled, perhaps offered even more money. They should have done so in retrospect. They should have done anything and everything. Ryan has always cited Manning as the greatest quarterback of his time, better than Tom Brady. A little more in-person begging and an enormous signing bonus wouldn’t have hurt. Instead, the Jets gave up the hunt and finalized the deal with Sanchez, a contract that is now handcuffing the team to a young player who has stopped progressing.

The Manning fantasy is worth reviving, if only because reality is so painful these days around Florham Park and East Rutherford. On Thursday, we got Ryan and Scott both apologizing to cruel fans who deserve their own share of abuse.

With Peyton at quarterback, such mea culpas would no longer be part of the culture. It’s all too tempting to extrapolate Manning’s Jet season from his MVP performance with the Broncos.

Manning would ignore the disconnected agenda of Tony Sparano or any offensive coordinator, calling his own game from behind center. He would check down against all the pressure that has befuddled and sabotaged Sanchez, found the seams and the screens. Manning would give the Jets the leadership in the huddle and locker room that have been missing. He would turn Jeremy Kerley into a Pro Bowl receiver and allow Shonn Greene to become a more effective running back with limited use.

Remember: In 2011, with Kyle Orton and Tebow, Denver was 8-8, same record as the Jets, except the Broncos got lucky with the tiebreakers and made the playoffs. Denver that season was 25th in the league in points scored, 23rd in total offense, 31st in passing yards.

Now they are square in the Super Bowl conversation, a complete, swift transformation. In 2012 with Manning, the Broncos are third in points scored, fourth in total offense and sixth in passing yards.

Meanwhile, the Jets sit 28th in the league in yards per game, 28th in passing yards, 22nd in points per game. We get the same, dysfunctional story, week after week.

Close your eyes, you can see what might have been on Sunday: The Jets going for 9-3, and Rex apologizing to no one.

A sleepless fan base is allowed to dream.

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The best managers position their employees to not just succeed, but become great. Talent matters. Talented players, talented coaches. Coaching can impact talent on the team, preparation, planning, desire, discipline, culture and environment to name just a few things.

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The best managers position their employees to not just succeed, but become great. Talent matters. Talented players, talented coaches. Coaching can impact talent on the team, preparation, planning, desire, discipline, culture and environment to name just a few things.

HCs matter.

Coupled with the right QB and you have greatness. Elway could never get over the hump until Shanny took over the Broncos.

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HCs matter.

Coupled with the right QB and you have greatness. Elway could never get over the hump until Shanny took over the Broncos.

Please. Reeves was a hell a of HC. What? 1 of 4 HC's to take 2 different teams to a SB, one being the Falcons led by Chris Chandler? They just met some all time great teams in those SB's and Elway was still a baby for the most part when he was in Denver.

QB's >>>> HC's - your team is the perfect example. BB is nothing without Tom Brady.

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Might not agree with all of this. But QB is very important. What ever bad taste Favre left here, the Jets were a little too quick to dismiss Peyton Manning (and Brees) as a possibility. Plain and simple Sanchez sucks. Pretending otherwise again tells us the Jets are run by fools. Instead they were busy extending Harris and Sanchez to insane contracts and, and drafting more DL guys who cannot get on the field and trading up in the 2nd round for a "project".Also doing the seminannual grovel to Revis. Great job, guys!

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1210632

If NY Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum had signed Peyton Manning, Gang Green could be enjoying its season

Imagine: The fans at MetLife Stadium are chanting nice things at the Jets as they walk triumphantly off the field, and there is no Mark Sanchez/Tim Tebow debate

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

sanchez-manning.jpg

Art by New York Daily News

Mark Sanchez? Forget about it! In this alternate reality, Peyton Manning is taking charge.

Soft-focus your brain, if that is still possible in the age of high-definition television. Imagine for a moment that Peyton Manning is the Jet quarterback, having signed a five-year deal with Mike Tannenbaum back in March.

Now: The fans at MetLife Stadium are chanting nice things at the Jets as they walk triumphantly off the field, moving to 8-3 and a game ahead of the Patriots in the AFC East. Bart Scott is high-fiving a supporter on his way through the tunnel, laughing and sharing stories. Rex Ryan is guaranteeing a Super Bowl, just like in the good old days. The crowds are spelling out J-E-T-S, squarely behind Fireman Ed instead of forcing him out of the business.

Best of all, there is no Tim Tebow/Mark Sanchez debate. There isn’t even a Tebow or Sanchez to be found on the roster.

It all might have happened, if only Manning had embarked on a New York adventure, which was really the last chance for the Jets to rescue their season and possibly this entire regime. All the losing that followed is a predictable shortfall of offensive talent and unimaginative play-calling. There is nothing surprising about the Jets’ unraveling. They are merely living down to their preseason clips.

You may remember: The Jets gave it a shot, approached Manning. They’d freed up an extra $7 million by restructuring D’Brickashaw Ferguson’s contract. On Thursday, Ferguson was remembering at his locker that what he did then in that agreement wasn’t only supposed to be good for him, it was going to be good for the team.

But Peyton quickly told the Jet contacts to forget it, never led them on. Maybe that was because his brother was already in town or maybe it was because he didn’t like what he saw in this organization. Ryan isn’t exactly a perfect fit for an aggressive quarterback and the roster lacked breakout receivers. The locker room is the Big Apple Circus, minus the big-play acrobats. The Jets were rebuffed, and there was probably nothing Ryan, Tannenbaum or Woody Johnson could have done about it.

Still, they might have groveled, perhaps offered even more money. They should have done so in retrospect. They should have done anything and everything. Ryan has always cited Manning as the greatest quarterback of his time, better than Tom Brady. A little more in-person begging and an enormous signing bonus wouldn’t have hurt. Instead, the Jets gave up the hunt and finalized the deal with Sanchez, a contract that is now handcuffing the team to a young player who has stopped progressing.

The Manning fantasy is worth reviving, if only because reality is so painful these days around Florham Park and East Rutherford. On Thursday, we got Ryan and Scott both apologizing to cruel fans who deserve their own share of abuse.

With Peyton at quarterback, such mea culpas would no longer be part of the culture. It’s all too tempting to extrapolate Manning’s Jet season from his MVP performance with the Broncos.

Manning would ignore the disconnected agenda of Tony Sparano or any offensive coordinator, calling his own game from behind center. He would check down against all the pressure that has befuddled and sabotaged Sanchez, found the seams and the screens. Manning would give the Jets the leadership in the huddle and locker room that have been missing. He would turn Jeremy Kerley into a Pro Bowl receiver and allow Shonn Greene to become a more effective running back with limited use.

Remember: In 2011, with Kyle Orton and Tebow, Denver was 8-8, same record as the Jets, except the Broncos got lucky with the tiebreakers and made the playoffs. Denver that season was 25th in the league in points scored, 23rd in total offense, 31st in passing yards.

Now they are square in the Super Bowl conversation, a complete, swift transformation. In 2012 with Manning, the Broncos are third in points scored, fourth in total offense and sixth in passing yards.

Meanwhile, the Jets sit 28th in the league in yards per game, 28th in passing yards, 22nd in points per game. We get the same, dysfunctional story, week after week.

Close your eyes, you can see what might have been on Sunday: The Jets going for 9-3, and Rex apologizing to no one.

A sleepless fan base is allowed to dream.

All that being said. Manning would have taken a look at this franchise (and he probably did) and laughed his @ss saying :You have got to kidding.

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HCs matter.

Coupled with the right QB and you have greatness. Elway could never get over the hump until Shanny took over the Broncos.

Elway had to be surrounded with talent to win, and he almost bungled those too.. IT took him forever to make the playoffs and forever to win a SB. Elway would be laughed at today with his rookie and beyond years.. They don't wait that long anymore..not at all. If you aren't ready as a number one pick , you are done...you maybe get two and half years to produce, or you're done.

It was ten long ass years between the "Drive" and his first SB win...LOL.. I am sure that most teams would sit on a QB for ten years while they rebuilt for another run in todays market.... NOT>

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Only old people remember Elways disappointments... since then, he has become legend for some. When he sucked, it was very similar to Sanchez, has extraordinarily famous for throwing a *wiffle* ball.. don't know why, he just let it slip or something, and it like flopped out there somewhere...

He lost a lot of games... a lot.

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