81 replies to this topic

[RutgersJetFan]

The thinking, around here, is that the GM fired Because of Sanchez and Tebow? ok that's fair.

Seriously dude? Do you even bother actually reading the things that reasonable people actually post? Again, you're creating strawmen based on completely false interpretations of a huge collection of things that people have said. I have neither the time nor the inclination to list the entire smorgasbord of sh*t that's been gone over time and time again.

[dbatesman]

The Jets actually have 2 above average guys in Tanny and Rex. I guess that's what I see. We can base it on resume or we can base it on wins and losses.

Hate to break it to you, but an NFL resume is wins and losses, and has nothing to do with whether or not one spent time in a room with Belichick or served as a ball boy for Weeb Ewbank.

[RutgersJetFan]

Hate to break it to you, but an NFL resume is wins and losses...

More importantly...

[kelly]

it's funny how Mangini drafted Revis, Rex drafted Mo and Quinton, but Tanny drafted all the busts.

yup...

[Bleedin Green]

The thinking, around here, is that the GM fired Because of Sanchez and Tebow? ok that's fair.

but what about the after great first round pick of MO and at least very good of Coples? Rex gets that credit? What about the Landry signing? seems unfair to slice and dice the credit and the blame that's my point. Is the QB mess a bigger sin than all the successes? That's at least the question I want to ask.

There was a 30 for 30 special about the belichick coaching staff in early 90's CLE how basically all those guys got big jobs in the NFL. Tanny was in that room. He could get fired from the Jets and work for the rest of his life on the back of being in that room, and the Revis pick. just like how Rex can always fall back on his ring with Baltimore and his bloodline.

The Jets actually have 2 above average guys in Tanny and Rex. I guess that's what I see. We can base it on resume or we can base it on wins and losses.

So what's exactly your point? Every single move Tannenbaum has ever made in his entire time as GM has to be a complete failure in order for him to be deserving of being fired? Occasional hits, which literally every single GM league-wide has, does not offset countless number of failures. The bottom line is he has handled the game's single most important position as bad or worse than any other GM in the league, and that alone is enough, as it truly is unforgivable and alone ensures the Jets have no hopes of any significant success in the foreseeable future, particularly if he's the one entrusted with fixing that position for the future, which he has shown no reason to believe he's capable of doing.

When you consider the abysmal failures at numerous other positions and a constant penchant for not addressing positions until after we've dealt with at least one full season of disastrous play there, it only compounds the issues. Tough to be too impressed with something like the Landry signing when that came on the heels of multiple seasons of the Jets sporting the league's worst safeties.

[sirlancemehlot]

Coples had a couple of beast mode plays yesterday. Blew up a double team. Sack. Tackle for loss. Him and Mo Wilk will be beasts.

Wait. Wait. Horrible at drafting, cant evaluate talent, cant develop players. There, thats better.

So a first round draft pick is playing well in his second year and it disproves all of the above? thats reasonable.

[bitonti]

Hate to break it to you, but an NFL resume is wins and losses, and has nothing to do with whether or not one spent time in a room with Belichick or served as a ball boy for Weeb Ewbank.

ok so going by pure wins and losses, these guys are both above average. this board acts like the team is 2-11. they are 6-7 and probably gonna finish .500. not fire-able, especially in a year when the best player went down in week 3.

Edited by bitonti, 12 December 2012 - 04:37 PM.

[whodeawhodat]

So what's exactly your point? Every single move Tannenbaum has ever made in his entire time as GM has to be a complete failure in order for him to be deserving of being fired? Occasional hits, which literally every single GM league-wide has, does not offset countless number of failures. The bottom line is he has handled the game's single most important position as bad or worse than any other GM in the league, and that alone is enough, as it truly is unforgivable and alone ensures the Jets have no hopes of any significant success in the foreseeable future, particularly if he's the one entrusted with fixing that position for the future, which he has shown no reason to believe he's capable of doing.

When you consider the abysmal failures at numerous other positions and a constant penchant for not addressing positions until after we've dealt with at least one full season of disastrous play there, it only compounds the issues. Tough to be too impressed with something like the Landry signing when that came on the heels of multiple seasons of the Jets sporting the league's worst safeties.

BG,
how are we winning games? How are we not the worst in the league? The way you speak it, we should be 0-13 right now...No GM, no HC, no OC, and no QB. What exactly do we have?

[Bleedin Green]

BG,
how are we winning games? How are we not the worst in the league? The way you speak it, we should be 0-13 right now...No GM, no HC, no OC, and no QB. What exactly do we have?

Clearly you and bitonti have a very different level of expectations than many of the rest of us. I don't particularly find not being the worst in the league as an even remotely acceptable performance out of a GM, particularly when this team is visibly getting progressively worse as more time passes by. It is that fact, combined with the absolutely unacceptably pathetic disaster that is this team's QB position that alone gives the Jets every reason they could possibly need to decide Tanny is not the answer. This team peaked in 2011 and since then has gotten worse at every position with the possible exception of DL and safety, failing miserably in any and all attempts to address any other position on this team. That's all only compacted by the disaster of a cap situation they find themselves walking into and Tanny's penchant for pissing away draft picks with great regularity.

[bitonti]

Clearly you and bitonti have a very different level of expectations than many of the rest of us.

my expectations are to be entertained. the Jets are like gambling sometimes the losses feel more significant than the wins. Tom Brady in the division there are way easier jobs in this league.

[#27TheDominator]

So what's exactly your point? Every single move Tannenbaum has ever made in his entire time as GM has to be a complete failure in order for him to be deserving of being fired? Occasional hits, which literally every single GM league-wide has, does not offset countless number of failures. The bottom line is he has handled the game's single most important position as bad or worse than any other GM in the league, and that alone is enough, as it truly is unforgivable and alone ensures the Jets have no hopes of any significant success in the foreseeable future, particularly if he's the one entrusted with fixing that position for the future, which he has shown no reason to believe he's capable of doing.

When you consider the abysmal failures at numerous other positions and a constant penchant for not addressing positions until after we've dealt with at least one full season of disastrous play there, it only compounds the issues. Tough to be too impressed with something like the Landry signing when that came on the heels of multiple seasons of the Jets sporting the league's worst safeties.

You really care that much about the safeties? Those guys played well enough to be on a pretty solid defense. Way the hell beyond solid in 2009. I can understand the desire to can these guys, but it's the idea that keeping them around is crazy that bothers me.

The two biggest problems I hear about Tannenbaum are:

1. QB.
Sanchez looks like sh*t, but the idea that the team can't win with him is relatively recent. They had two deep playoff runs with the guy. That doesn't buy him much in my book, but I can't see killing a GM for the kid regressing. Even a modest improvement would probably have kept this team in pretty good stead. Yes, the extension is borderline unforgiveable and I don't blame people for kiling him or calling for his head over it.

2. Current and 2013 cap situation.
The cap thing is sort of odd. He had been called a cap guru, so now that we have cap trouble we'll see what happens. FWIW, I think it's overblown in both directions. The team has generally been able to jettison enough to get cap room to get what/who they want. Favre, Revis, Asomugha. There hasn't been anybody they've seemed to want where salary stood in the way. This offseason they will need a bit of an overhaul and don't have much space. I'll be interested to see if Tannenbaum can pull it off this year. The rest of these guys seem to want to watch Cowher give a crack at it.

Where have we had disastrous play? RB in 2006? LG in 2007. RT in 2011? Name a team during that span that didn't have disastrous play a that many positions. The Giants won the super bowl with more disastrous play at RT last year.

You want to fire them. Fair enough. There looks to be enough reason, though personally I believe we have to let the season play out first. I think they deserve another year, depending on how the season plays out.

Edited by #27TheDominator, 12 December 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[Bleedin Green]

You really care that much about the safeties? Those guys played well enough to be on a pretty solid defense. Way the hell beyond solid in 2009.

It's a single example, which we can gladly discuss others instead if you like. As far as how they fared in 2009 is concerned, it was also the first year the position wasn't a problem as they finally got someone to play across from Rhodes, and then they traded him away after the season and took 2 years to even bother to try to replace him. It's crap like that which is exactly what I'm talking about. We've seen this same exact kind of situation play out in recent years at positions such as RT, OLB, ILB, G, WR. They get progressively worse over time, ignoring the position until it becomes a major weakness on the team, at which point they might then try to address it.

I can understand the desire to can these guys, but it's the idea that keeping them around is crazy that bothers me.

The two biggest problems I hear about Tannenbaum are:

1. QB.
Sanchez looks like sh*t, but the idea that the team can't win with him is relatively recent. They had two deep playoff runs with the guy. That doesn't buy him much in my book, but I can't see killing a GM for the kid regressing. Even a modest improvement would probably have kept this team in pretty good stead. Yes, the extension is borderline unforgiveable and I don't blame people for kiling him or calling for his head over it.

The entire way the QB position was handed this past offseason was enough for him to be fired on the spot. Anyone with a half a brain knew things were not looking good for Sanchez after that disaster of a season last year, back when this mess started. Tanny's solution was to lock Sanchez up into quite arguably the most idiotic contract this team has ever handed out (and that's saying A LOT), signing a second rate nobody to be the backup so Sanchez wouldn't have to worry about any real competition, then turning around and trading away draft picks and paying millions of dollars for a different backup who was the only QB in the league who was a sh*ttier passer than Sanchez last year. It was so mind-blowingly idiotic, that there is absolutely no reason this dipsh*t should be given even the slightest shred of confidence to be involved in fixing that heaping pile of sh*t he created at QB.

2. Current and 2013 cap situation.
The cap thing is sort of odd. He had been called a cap guru, so now that we have cap trouble we'll see what happens. FWIW, I think it's overblown in both directions. The team has generally been able to jettison enough to get cap room to get what/who they want. Favre, Revis, Asomugha. There hasn't been anybody they've seemed to want where salary stood in the way. This offseason they will need a bit of an overhaul and don't have much space. I'll be interested to see if Tannenbaum can pull it off this year. The rest of these guys seem to want to watch Cowher give a crack at it.

As you said, this guy is a supposed cap expert and yet the Jets constantly find themselves in cap problems. After all, the reason the Jets have guys like Scott, Sanchez and Harris in these moronic contracts to begin with is that they were structured as band-aids to help with past year's cap messes. All he keeps doing is constantly mortgaging the future to save his ass today and while I'm sure he can pull enough space out of his ass to get under the cap, it doesn't mean how he does it is going to be good for this team.

Where have we had disastrous play? RB in 2006? LG in 2007. RT in 2011? Name a team during that span that didn't have disastrous play a that many positions. The Giants won the super bowl with more disastrous play at RT last year.

while some of these are obviously more important than others, I would say there are many areas you could say the Jets have seen extremely poor performances out of positions in Tanny's time here (and I think some would argue there are some missing from this list):

QB in 2007, 2009-2012 (and that's being nice about it)
WR in 2009, 2012
TE in 2006-2008
RB in 2006, 2011
FB in 2006-2007, 2011-2012
OL in 2011
S in 2006-2011
ILB in 2006, 2011-2012
OLB in 2006-2007, 2011-2012
CB in 2006
DL in 2006-2007

You want to fire them. Fair enough. There looks to be enough reason, though personally I believe we have to let the season play out first. I think they deserve another year, depending on how the season plays out.

I think the idea that we need to let the season play out is extremely flawed, because grabbing some wins against the dregs of the league doesn't do anything to change the mess Tanny has made of this team. While unfortunately I think they will, this team can't let themselves be blinded by a mediocre season filled with major issues looking a little better at the end of the year based solely on the way the schedule was laid out.

As far as firing "them" goes, at this point Tanny is the only one that I think needs to go with 100% certainty. A new GM needs to be given the power to make all other decisions regarding who stays and goes beyond that, from top to bottom, and I could accept any of those decisions either way.

[bitonti]

As far as firing "them" goes, at this point Tanny is the only one that I think needs to go with 100% certainty. A new GM needs to be given the power to make all other decisions regarding who stays and goes beyond that, from top to bottom, and I could accept any of those decisions either way.

so you'll give full trust to an unnamed, unknown GM candidate. the implication is that any1 is better? Didn't the sparano over schotty situation teach us nothing?

[T0mShane]

so you'll give full trust to an unnamed, unknown GM candidate. the implication is that any1 is better? Didn't the sparano over schotty situation teach us nothing?

This was your Herm argument.

[tkiss24]

It's a Mo thread but how about Quinton's sack of Henne, he crushed him. I know every thread is a "fire tanny" thread but there's no arguing with the first round picks from the last 2 years... mon.

Those are Rex's guys, not Tanny's

[Bleedin Green]

so you'll give full trust to an unnamed, unknown GM candidate. the implication is that any1 is better? Didn't the sparano over schotty situation teach us nothing?

It's taught us that you still have the single most completely flawed logic of anyone on this board. You were unquestionably wrong then and you're still wrong now. Individual opinions don't even factor into it, because your logic fails from its very basic concept.

Even forgetting the specifics of the people we are discussing, your entire argument is that someone who has proven they do a poor job (regardless if it is Tanny, Schitty or any other person in any other job in the world) should be retained indefinitely because there might be a chance that another option could possibly be as bad or worse at the job, while ignoring the fact that there is also a chance that a better option could be found. That is the definition of a loser's mentality and there is absolutely no defense for it. As long as you continue to push that type of argument, you're only going to help invalidate your own stance, as I can assure you that even people who aren't unhappy with the job done by Tanny and think he should be retained would never possibly agree with this ridiculous position of yours.

[Bleedin Green]

This was your Herm argument.

This has been his logic for every single player, coach, and staff member ever associated with the Jets. It was his logic for Vernon ****ing Gholston for God's sake! It fails on literally every single level.

[jetfan718]

Now all we need are 2 "stud" OLB's and a "ball-hawking" FS and we're set!

[cr726]

Those are Rex's guys, not Tanny's

Conner was a Rex pick.

[#27TheDominator]

It's a single example, which we can gladly discuss others instead if you like. As far as how they fared in 2009 is concerned, it was also the first year the position wasn't a problem as they finally got someone to play across from Rhodes, and then they traded him away after the season and took 2 years to even bother to try to replace him. It's crap like that which is exactly what I'm talking about. We've seen this same exact kind of situation play out in recent years at positions such as RT, OLB, ILB, G, WR. They get progressively worse over time, ignoring the position until it becomes a major weakness on the team, at which point they might then try to address it.



The entire way the QB position was handed this past offseason was enough for him to be fired on the spot. Anyone with a half a brain knew things were not looking good for Sanchez after that disaster of a season last year, back when this mess started. Tanny's solution was to lock Sanchez up into quite arguably the most idiotic contract this team has ever handed out (and that's saying A LOT), signing a second rate nobody to be the backup so Sanchez wouldn't have to worry about any real competition, then turning around and trading away draft picks and paying millions of dollars for a different backup who was the only QB in the league who was a sh*ttier passer than Sanchez last year. It was so mind-blowingly idiotic, that there is absolutely no reason this dipsh*t should be given even the slightest shred of confidence to be involved in fixing that heaping pile of sh*t he created at QB.



As you said, this guy is a supposed cap expert and yet the Jets constantly find themselves in cap problems. After all, the reason the Jets have guys like Scott, Sanchez and Harris in these moronic contracts to begin with is that they were structured as band-aids to help with past year's cap messes. All he keeps doing is constantly mortgaging the future to save his ass today and while I'm sure he can pull enough space out of his ass to get under the cap, it doesn't mean how he does it is going to be good for this team.



while some of these are obviously more important than others, I would say there are many areas you could say the Jets have seen extremely poor performances out of positions in Tanny's time here (and I think some would argue there are some missing from this list):

QB in 2007, 2009-2012 (and that's being nice about it)
WR in 2009, 2012
TE in 2006-2008
RB in 2006, 2011
FB in 2006-2007, 2011-2012
OL in 2011
S in 2006-2011
ILB in 2006, 2011-2012
OLB in 2006-2007, 2011-2012
CB in 2006
DL in 2006-2007



I think the idea that we need to let the season play out is extremely flawed, because grabbing some wins against the dregs of the league doesn't do anything to change the mess Tanny has made of this team. While unfortunately I think they will, this team can't let themselves be blinded by a mediocre season filled with major issues looking a little better at the end of the year based solely on the way the schedule was laid out.

As far as firing "them" goes, at this point Tanny is the only one that I think needs to go with 100% certainty. A new GM needs to be given the power to make all other decisions regarding who stays and goes beyond that, from top to bottom, and I could accept any of those decisions either way.

I can dispute almost every one of those points, position by position. Interested? Did he make good moves? Good draft picks? Have things covered? Certainly not in every case, but there were qualified risks that in most case were reasonable. Rather than type all that out, I will ask you a simple question: Do you think I am crazy because I want to give Tannenbaum another season?

I know next year will be difficult, but I want to see how it is handled. The one thing that we CAN'T let happen is giving him 2013 and letting him monkey with deals and eat up all the cap space going forward. Otherwise, I am interested to see the product on the field for 2014. I can agree that the GM doesn't necessarily require letting the season play out, but there is certainly an argument to let it play out for the coach.