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DL dept. - Muhammad Wilkerson ~ ~ ~


kelly

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so you'll give full trust to an unnamed, unknown GM candidate. the implication is that any1 is better? Didn't the sparano over schotty situation teach us nothing?

It's taught us that you still have the single most completely flawed logic of anyone on this board. You were unquestionably wrong then and you're still wrong now. Individual opinions don't even factor into it, because your logic fails from its very basic concept.

Even forgetting the specifics of the people we are discussing, your entire argument is that someone who has proven they do a poor job (regardless if it is Tanny, Schitty or any other person in any other job in the world) should be retained indefinitely because there might be a chance that another option could possibly be as bad or worse at the job, while ignoring the fact that there is also a chance that a better option could be found. That is the definition of a loser's mentality and there is absolutely no defense for it. As long as you continue to push that type of argument, you're only going to help invalidate your own stance, as I can assure you that even people who aren't unhappy with the job done by Tanny and think he should be retained would never possibly agree with this ridiculous position of yours.

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It's a single example, which we can gladly discuss others instead if you like. As far as how they fared in 2009 is concerned, it was also the first year the position wasn't a problem as they finally got someone to play across from Rhodes, and then they traded him away after the season and took 2 years to even bother to try to replace him. It's crap like that which is exactly what I'm talking about. We've seen this same exact kind of situation play out in recent years at positions such as RT, OLB, ILB, G, WR. They get progressively worse over time, ignoring the position until it becomes a major weakness on the team, at which point they might then try to address it.

The entire way the QB position was handed this past offseason was enough for him to be fired on the spot. Anyone with a half a brain knew things were not looking good for Sanchez after that disaster of a season last year, back when this mess started. Tanny's solution was to lock Sanchez up into quite arguably the most idiotic contract this team has ever handed out (and that's saying A LOT), signing a second rate nobody to be the backup so Sanchez wouldn't have to worry about any real competition, then turning around and trading away draft picks and paying millions of dollars for a different backup who was the only QB in the league who was a sh*ttier passer than Sanchez last year. It was so mind-blowingly idiotic, that there is absolutely no reason this dipsh*t should be given even the slightest shred of confidence to be involved in fixing that heaping pile of sh*t he created at QB.

As you said, this guy is a supposed cap expert and yet the Jets constantly find themselves in cap problems. After all, the reason the Jets have guys like Scott, Sanchez and Harris in these moronic contracts to begin with is that they were structured as band-aids to help with past year's cap messes. All he keeps doing is constantly mortgaging the future to save his ass today and while I'm sure he can pull enough space out of his ass to get under the cap, it doesn't mean how he does it is going to be good for this team.

while some of these are obviously more important than others, I would say there are many areas you could say the Jets have seen extremely poor performances out of positions in Tanny's time here (and I think some would argue there are some missing from this list):

QB in 2007, 2009-2012 (and that's being nice about it)

WR in 2009, 2012

TE in 2006-2008

RB in 2006, 2011

FB in 2006-2007, 2011-2012

OL in 2011

S in 2006-2011

ILB in 2006, 2011-2012

OLB in 2006-2007, 2011-2012

CB in 2006

DL in 2006-2007

I think the idea that we need to let the season play out is extremely flawed, because grabbing some wins against the dregs of the league doesn't do anything to change the mess Tanny has made of this team. While unfortunately I think they will, this team can't let themselves be blinded by a mediocre season filled with major issues looking a little better at the end of the year based solely on the way the schedule was laid out.

As far as firing "them" goes, at this point Tanny is the only one that I think needs to go with 100% certainty. A new GM needs to be given the power to make all other decisions regarding who stays and goes beyond that, from top to bottom, and I could accept any of those decisions either way.

I can dispute almost every one of those points, position by position. Interested? Did he make good moves? Good draft picks? Have things covered? Certainly not in every case, but there were qualified risks that in most case were reasonable. Rather than type all that out, I will ask you a simple question: Do you think I am crazy because I want to give Tannenbaum another season?

I know next year will be difficult, but I want to see how it is handled. The one thing that we CAN'T let happen is giving him 2013 and letting him monkey with deals and eat up all the cap space going forward. Otherwise, I am interested to see the product on the field for 2014. I can agree that the GM doesn't necessarily require letting the season play out, but there is certainly an argument to let it play out for the coach.

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This was your Herm argument.

It's taught us that you still have the single most completely flawed logic of anyone on this board. You were unquestionably wrong then and you're still wrong now. Individual opinions don't even factor into it, because your logic fails from its very basic concept.

Even forgetting the specifics of the people we are discussing, your entire argument is that someone who has proven they do a poor job (regardless if it is Tanny, Schitty or any other person in any other job in the world) should be retained indefinitely because there might be a chance that another option could possibly be as bad or worse at the job, while ignoring the fact that there is also a chance that a better option could be found. That is the definition of a loser's mentality and there is absolutely no defense for it. As long as you continue to push that type of argument, you're only going to help invalidate your own stance, as I can assure you that even people who aren't unhappy with the job done by Tanny and think he should be retained would never possibly agree with this ridiculous position of yours.

first off I still am not convinved Tanny does a poor job. He traded up and drafted Revis. That's a once in a generation draft pick. Mo, Coples, Landry etc. it's not all as bad as you guys are making out.

Secondly it's not too much to ask for a list of names you think would 1) be an upgrade 2) actually take the job if offered. This idea that anyone would be better "addition by subtraction" was what drove the Schotty firing. And I don't think Sparano is any better. Do you>?

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first off I still am not convinved Tanny does a poor job. He traded up and drafted Revis. That's a once in a generation draft pick. Mo, Coples, Landry etc. it's not all as bad as you guys are making out.

Secondly it's not too much to ask for a list of names you think would 1) be an upgrade 2) actually take the job if offered. This idea that anyone would be better "addition by subtraction" was what drove the Schotty firing. And I don't think Sparano is any better. Do you>?

In all honesty, that right there, plus the Sanchez extension are the main reasons for firing him IMO.

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first off I still am not convinved Tanny does a poor job. He traded up and drafted Revis. That's a once in a generation draft pick. Mo, Coples, Landry etc. it's not all as bad as you guys are making out.

Secondly it's not too much to ask for a list of names you think would 1) be an upgrade 2) actually take the job if offered. This idea that anyone would be better "addition by subtraction" was what drove the Schotty firing. And I don't think Sparano is any better. Do you>?

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I can dispute almost every one of those points, position by position. Interested? Did he make good moves? Good draft picks? Have things covered? Certainly not in every case, but there were qualified risks that in most case were reasonable. Rather than type all that out, I will ask you a simple question: Do you think I am crazy because I want to give Tannenbaum another season?

I have absolutely no doubt that you could, just as there are others here who would have made an even more critical argument against Tanny than I did. I certainly don't expect you to agree with all of my opinions, but the point is simple, it's reason such as the ones I listed that support my feelings why Tannenbaum should no longer be this team's GM from the day this season ends.

Truth be told, for a long time I was nowhere near considered to be a particular hater of Tanny's. I was becoming less and less happy with him as time went on, but gave him the benefit of the doubt in a lot of cases and tried not to be excessively critical, but at this point, enough is enough. There have been numerous hits and misses, the problem being the latter have been far more recurring and significant than the former (the misses often including huge contracts and numerous draft picks). However, beyond even all of that, the point is that the QB position alone is enough reason for him to be sent packing.

Fixing that position needs to be this team's top priority, and there's years of evidence that shows Tannenbaum needs to have absolutely no say whatsoever in that matter. It's been one complete disaster after another from the moment he took over as this team's GM, and you'd be hard-pressed to find many teams in this entire league who have done as piss poor of a job as he has done with the position over that time. Really think about it for a second and then consider that any of the teams you could try to make an argument for are all the complete jokes of this league. And then ask yourself, how many of the GMs that put together those messes are still employed (and furthermore, aren't on the cusp of losing their jobs now)?

I know next year will be difficult, but I want to see how it is handled. The one thing that we CAN'T let happen is giving him 2013 and letting him monkey with deals and eat up all the cap space going forward. Otherwise, I am interested to see the product on the field for 2014. I can agree that the GM doesn't necessarily require letting the season play out, but there is certainly an argument to let it play out for the coach.

Don't disagree about the coach and I'm not necessarily completely done with Rex (but again, if a new GM is brought in, you need to give him freedom to make a decision there). The problem is that another year of Tanny will ensure that future cap hits will be impacted one way or another. The Jets are at a crossroads and some serious changes need to be made. So do you let your GM mortgage the future for the present to try to save the 2013 season (something Tanny would likely be most inclined to do for a variety of reasons), or do you concede that there's lots of work to be done and go out of your way to avoid things like that in order to have an eye towards the future? In the latter case, which I think makes far more sense, how do you hand that responsibility over to a GM that you'd even have to concede at the very least would be on the hot seat going into next year? In essence, by letting Tanny stay here when the Jets move into a rebuilding season, you're either committing to him for multiple years, which is a ridiculous concept, or you're letting a guy build the team that he wants, with the high probability of turning around a year later and handing the keys to a new guy who's going to want to change up the roster all over again. The problem isn't just that Tanny deserves to be fired (although I certainly believe he does), it's that the timing of this, given everything that needs to be done, is when it makes most sense to make this kind of change.

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Ridiculous concept? That's what I'm talking about. Nobody likes the current direction, but the guy should have some good will here. His tenure has not been a complete failure. You want to make the change and I see the reasons beyond the normal moronic hate that spews from this place anytime there is a loss, win against a bad team or even opening day after that drubbing. OTOH, I think it's completely insane not to see rational people could want to keep him.

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first off I still am not convinved Tanny does a poor job. He traded up and drafted Revis. That's a once in a generation draft pick. Mo, Coples, Landry etc. it's not all as bad as you guys are making out.

That's a completely different point. If you think Tanny has done a good job, so be it (although I think "not convinced Tanny does a poor job" is hardly a glowing endorsement). However, your position is that even those people who think Tanny sucks at his job shouldn't feel he should be fired since another person could possibly do as bad of a job. That kind of logic is completely asinine.

Secondly it's not too much to ask for a list of names you think would 1) be an upgrade 2) actually take the job if offered. This idea that anyone would be better "addition by subtraction" was what drove the Schotty firing. And I don't think Sparano is any better. Do you>?

No, the point is that a quick look around the league tells you there are plenty of people serving in the same role as Tanny who are FAAAAAR better at the job than he is and that if the Jets want to be able to regularly compete on the level of those teams, they need someone who can perform the job more reliably. There's no guarantee that a replacement will definitely be better, but using that as a reason to not even try is really the most sad example of a loser's mentality that a person could have. I am not even exaggerating when I say really cannot even fathom how somehow can have a mindset like that. I'm trying, but I can't find how anyone can think there is the slightest shred of merit to it.

While I'm far from thrilled with Sparano, I still absolutely feel he is better than Schitty. There is not a single OC in this league who I have ever seen make some of the mind-numbingly stupid calls that moron did. What a coincidence that all it took was that schmuck leaving to no longer see 3 different WRs running to the same damn spot on the football field at least a few times per game or have third down plays where literally every single player on the field run routes short of the first down marker.

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Ridiculous concept? That's what I'm talking about. Nobody likes the current direction, but the guy should have some good will here. His tenure has not been a complete failure. You want to make the change and I see the reasons beyond the normal moronic hate that spews from this place anytime there is a loss, win against a bad team or even opening day after that drubbing. OTOH, I think it's completely insane not to see rational people could want to keep him.

I can see your point, I just disagree with it is all. I think it's the combination of factors that really need to make this move happen sooner rather than later. If it wasn't for the cap situation and the immediate need to have to make serious roster moves simply because the team will be forced to, then maybe I would actually agree with you. But that's the current situation and if it's time for a serious roster makeover, and with absolutely no reason to commit to Tanny for any sort of long term period of time, I think the fact that he is responsible for putting us in this situation, and the laughably bad QB situation on top of that, is reason enough to say it's time to move on.

I will certainly concede that you have a rational reason for your opinions, even if I don't agree with them. Bit? Not so much.

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No, the point is that a quick look around the league tells you there are plenty of people serving in the same role as Tanny who are FAAAAAR better at the job than he is

that's not really relevant, as the Jets can't just snipe another team's GM. they are going to have to give the job to someone who has probably never held that role. I just think it's interesting how you guys have a masters degree in everything Tanny ever did but have a 3rd grade understanding of who would replacement. It's a myopic viewpoint and lacks perspective.

for example, anyone who takes this Jets job has to be aware of the HOF franchise QB jerkwad in the division. Jets fans seem to think firing Rex and Tanny will beat Tom Brady. It's wishful thinking. I see you guys nitpick every move the team makes but have no sympathy for the difficulty of being in the division with a first ballot HOF multiple NFL MVP in Brady. At some point you have to take a step back and say it's a tough hand to play, whether it's Tanny or Ron Wolf. whether it's Rex or Vince Lombardi. the coaches coach and the players play and the Jets don't have a player like Brady.

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that's not really relevant, as the Jets can't just snipe another team's GM. they are going to have to give the job to someone who has probably never held that role. I just think it's interesting how you guys have a masters degree in everything Tanny ever did but have a 3rd grade understanding of who would replacement. It's a myopic viewpoint and lacks perspective.

Says the guy with a remedial preschoolers understanding of fundamental logical concepts.

I assure you it is entirely relevant, your failure to grasp it does not change that. The point is that it is proven, beyond doubt, that a significantly better job can be done at the position. It can also be done be a person who's never done the job before, as all of those individuals once were (it's an inherent fact in any task that has ever been done by anyone since the beginning of time). Tanny has proven incapable of performing the job at that level, so the goal needs to be find someone who is. That's not to say you are guaranteed to immediately succeed in that goal, but using that as your sole reason not to try is 100% wrong in every imaginable way.

for example, anyone who takes this Jets job has to be aware of the HOF franchise QB jerkwad in the division. Jets fans seem to think firing Rex and Tanny will beat Tom Brady. It's wishful thinking. I see you guys nitpick every move the team makes but have no sympathy for the difficulty of being in the division with a first ballot HOF multiple NFL MVP in Brady. At some point you have to take a step back and say it's a tough hand to play, whether it's Tanny or Ron Wolf. whether it's Rex or Vince Lombardi. the coaches coach and the players play and the Jets don't have a player like Brady.

It might help if, while sharing a division with a future HOF QB, the Jets weren't sporting one of the most laughably pathetic QB situations in the entire league, which has gotten progressively worse throughout Tanny's tenure here. Not to mention, Brady has absolutely no bearing on the Jets' performance for at least 14 games out of the year.

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I disagree with a couple of Bleedin's points (and none of Rutgers)

I don't think there are so many teams that are run better than the Jets.

I don't believe that Tannenbaum has proven that he can't GM at a high level.

I don't think our QB situation has gotten progressively worse. It's been more of a bell curve with Favre at the top.

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I disagree with a couple of Bleedin's points (and none of Rutgers)

I don't think there are so many teams that are run better than the Jets.

I don't believe that Tannenbaum has proven that he can't GM at a high level.

I don't think our QB situation has gotten progressively worse. It's been more of a bell curve with Favre at the top.

Perhaps not progressively worse, but at this point, I consider Favre to be an 11-game outlier of a continually laughable QB situation since Tanny took over more than anything.

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There are about 10 franchise QBs in the league at any given time. The Jets don't have one. Firing the GM (and/or coach) doesn't change that. The coach is important if a new GM wants to get rid of Rex, and bring in his own guy, that's another step back. the Jets will have a worse Defense and still no franchise QB. you guys can post all the gifs you want (they are blocked until i get home from work) but all I ask is you think about the situation from a 32 team perspective not a 1 team perspective.

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There are about 10 franchise QBs in the league at any given time. The Jets don't have one. Firing the GM (and/or coach) doesn't change that. The coach is important if a new GM wants to get rid of Rex, and bring in his own guy, that's another step back. the Jets will have a worse Defense and still no franchise QB. you guys can post all the gifs you want (they are blocked until i get home from work) but all I ask is you think about the situation from a 32 team perspective not a 1 team perspective.

Hulk-throws-bear.gif

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