kelticwizard Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Watching the Steelers-Cowboys game today. Just before halftime, they showed a shot of Joshua Brent, out of jail and facing a charge of vehicular homicide. The announcer for the game said the presence of Brent was controversial. On the halftime show, all the analysts were against it, although one said that the dead player's mother said the Cowboys should support Brent. Boomer Esiason came out strongly against it, said it was a disgrace. Now, during the game, announcers at the stadium, (different from the halftime analysts), proceeded to praise the Pittsburgh quarterback, Ben Roethlisberger. They praised his toughness, they praised his athleticism, (he did make one great play, extending his time to pass to 9 seconds), they praised his ability to throw defenses off by double-pumping the ball. All during the game. Let's take a look at what Joshua Brent did. He got drunk and went in a car with his friend, got into an accident which killed the friend. Terrible consequences, but he did not intend to harm his friend. You can make the case that he made a terrible choice driving over the alcohol limit, but he did not intentionally do anything to harm anyone. Ben Roethlisberger goes into a bar, has a college girl drink so much she barely knows where she is, (this takes some time), sets up his buddies to prevent anyone from getting to the bathroom where he takes the near unconscious girl, and has sex with her. This was not one bad decision, this was a program put in place that lasted an hour or so to execute. We can debate back and forth about which is worse-the illegal and foolish but unintentional act which resulted in a fatal accident versus the intentional rape with lasting consequences, but I think we will all agree both were incredibly bad acts. Am I the only one who thinks that Roethlisberger's and Brent's act were somewhat in the same league of badness? If I'm right in concluding that, does anyone have an idea why the difference in treatment for the two players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 They are both pieces of trash. Roflburger, it was alleged. Sure, he is probably a rapist but we don't know that for sure. Brent is a killer. He didn't get into a car accident "by accident". Idiot was drunk. He murdered that young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanks9596 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Well, for one thing Ben didn't KILL anyone. I dunno. That's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Well, for one thing Ben didn't KILL anyone. I dunno. That's just me. IF what Ben did is the truth, he may not have killed that poor girl, but she will possibly never be able to live her life the same way, and could be mentally unstabble which would probably mean a very unhappy rest of her life, that in some severe mental trauma some would rather not live at all being a prisoner to this horrible mental trauma. I am not saying this is the case in this situation with Ben, and the girl feels this way, but in general that kind of sexual crime can have severe concequences to one's mental stability for the rest of their lives. And if you have ever driven drunk with another person in your vehicle please do me a favor, and don't post here critizing the situation, this could have happend to you, and IMO you lose the right to come on here, and be a hypocrite. I am not making a judgement either way on the Cowboys situation from yesterday, this post was just intended to talk about the disgusting crime of Rape, and comparing to other crimes that might look worse because the effect on that person was fatal, when know one actually knows the effect on someone who was a victim of another crime like rape where the final effect is mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 They are both pieces of trash. Roflburger, it was alleged. Sure, he is probably a rapist but we don't know that for sure. Brent is a killer. He didn't get into a car accident "by accident". Idiot was drunk. He murdered that young man. No he didn't. He killed him do to making a terrible lack in judgement most people on this board have done time to time. I dare say short of the dead players family he feels worse about it than anyone. He was an idiot bet yes the accident was an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 If the Brent situation had already worked itself out in court, then yes, I'd be fine with him on the sideline. But thanks to our wonderful court system, he's a free man until he faces the judge. This piece of garbage shouldnt be smelling any free air until he's served his time. Ben, on the other hand, has already had his case dealt with. We may not agree on the conclusion, but he isnt facing a future jail sentence like Brent. I dont care what the rest of you have to say. Im sick and tired of the "im sure many of you have drove drunk" argument to lessen the impact of situation. I never have. I've always known what I was doing and where my limit was. Am i awesome or great? No. But was smart enough when drinking to not get behind the wheel. And for those that have, hopefully you have learned to stop being so stupid when drinking. The guy killed his friend due to his stupidity and recklessness. It wasnt an accident. An accident is a deer running in front of you. This wasnt an accident. There is no excuse. As a country we're all up in arms over guns, but we excuse away and allow drunk drivers to roam free on our streets. How about we get serious about drunk driving too? How about we get some teeth in the laws so people who kill arent on the sidelines or in the stands the next weekend. If we were serious, we would have serious laws. Who would drive drunk if you got an automatic year in jail for drunk driving? A heck of a lot less than they do now. As for Big Ben. No, he shouldnt be in a game. this scumbag should have had his penis cut off while he lay in prison. Another moron drinking and doing harm to others. Rapist should be dealt with harshly too (if it isnt evident already, I want longer jail sentences for criminals) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 No he didn't. He killed him do to making a terrible lack in judgement most people on this board have done time to time. I dare say short of the dead players family he feels worse about it than anyone. He was an idiot bet yes the accident was an accident. Sorry. Cant agree with you. Stop making excuses cause "other people done it" He's scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsouth Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 It depends on if you think adults should be held responsible for their behavior. None of the NFL players are.. BTW, I don't buy the logic that someone who gets crocked behind the wheel is innocent. I drove drunk hundreds of times, got hit by a train even..and every time is was my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Sorry. Cant agree with you. Stop making excuses cause "other people done it" He's scum. Not an excuse man, Just a fact. People have driven drunk without killing people. It's careless and selfish. Horrible thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Not an excuse man, Just a fact. People have driven drunk without killing people. It's careless and selfish. Horrible thing. But when its said, it excuses the behavior because "others have done it" Every freaking time we have a drunk driving issue (not just JN, everywhere) people use the "everyone does it" line. Time for us to leave that part out and just call it careless and selfish and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 But when its said, it excuses the behavior because "others have done it" Every freaking time we have a drunk driving issue (not just JN, everywhere) people use the "everyone does it" line. Time for us to leave that part out and just call it careless and selfish and stupid. I was thinking more did it. Was hoping people would eventually learn not to. I did it in my twenty's. Never would think of doing it again. NEVER. Hope and pray my kids don;t do it. But it happens and not only to BAD people. Its horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I find the people calling him a murderer/killer to be kind of ridiculous and a bit over-dramatic. It's not like he killed some innocent bystander that was walking the streets or driving in another car. As far as I'm concerned, it's just as much the kid that died's fault as it was Brent's; and even moreso if he was sober and let the drunk guy drive. I'm guessing they were both too drunk to drive though, so it was both of their fault. Ben is 100x worse of a person/criminal, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 But when its said, it excuses the behavior because "others have done it" Every freaking time we have a drunk driving issue (not just JN, everywhere) people use the "everyone does it" line. Time for us to leave that part out and just call it careless and selfish and stupid. I don't think he's being excused by anyone. No one's saying he should get off, and I doubt many (if any) appreciated seeing him on the sidelines. But it is easy to feel some empathy for the perpetrator in these cases. I think everyone considers drinking and driving to be careless, selfish, and stupid, but there's no malice involved. This is a guy who's killed a friend. It's sad and it's tragic. It's also a crime. I certainly don't feel any need to pile on the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I find the people calling him a murderer/killer to be kind of ridiculous and a bit over-dramatic. It's not like he killed some innocent bystander that was walking the streets or driving in another car. As far as I'm concerned, it's just as much the kid that died's fault as it was Brent's; and even moreso if he was sober and let the drunk guy drive. I'm guessing they were both too drunk to drive though, so it was both of their fault. Ben is 100x worse of a person/criminal, imo. Murderer? No. Kill someone? Yes. Does that excuse the guy going with him? No. sometimes victims need to take a bit of blame too. I hope he rots in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I don't think he's being excused by anyone. No one's saying he should get off, and I doubt many (if any) appreciated seeing him on the sidelines. But it is easy to feel some empathy for the perpetrator in these cases. I think everyone considers drinking and driving to be careless, selfish, and stupid, but there's no malice involved. This is a guy who's killed a friend. It's sad and it's tragic. It's also a crime. I certainly don't feel any need to pile on the guy. Every time someone utters the "everybody does it" line, it lessens the impact of the crime. First, we need to "stop doing it" Second, we need to start holding people more accountable for their poor decision making when drinking/driving. reason why we dont have stricter laws and enforcement is because of the belief that "everyone does it" He drove to the bar that night. He chose to take that first drink. Its a sad, terrible ending that takes place all over this country every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 No he didn't. He killed him do to making a terrible lack in judgement most people on this board have done time to time. I dare say short of the dead players family he feels worse about it than anyone. He was an idiot bet yes the accident was an accident. Yeah, he did. He is facing manslaughter charges. I have never drove drunk, and certainly not with other people in the car with me. His "lack in judgment" isn't an excuse anymore, seeing how he did jail time prior for driving drunk. Once, a possible stupid stupid mistake. Twice, piece of trash that deserves to see serious jail time. He killed that kid. And I doubt he feels sooo bad about it. He was on the sidelines chuckling and having a good ol' time. Probably went to Hooters after, ate 120 wings and washed it down with a 30 pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 ^ dick. I hope he slips on a banana peel and knocks that poop eating grinning off his fat face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Yeah, he did. He is facing manslaughter charges........ He killed that kid. Manslaughter does not necessarily mean intent. This thread was not meant to be about this, but as long as some people insist: I don't see how anyone can sanely claim that Brent intended to kill Jerry Brown. Is there any evidence at all that Brent was trying to flip his car and kill the guy? If the answer is no, then clearly the death was unintended. Therefore, Brent did not intentionally kill Brown. Contrary to what some people in this thread would have you believe, driving someone home whom you have spent the night drinking with is not the equivalent of playing Russian Roulette with only one chamber unloaded Fact is, the vast majority of people who drive home over the Blood Alcohol Limit make it home quite safely, without being caught, for years. . However, when you drive home over the Blood Alcohol limit, your risk of having an accident is slightly greater. In a country of 300 million people, that increase in risk results in thousands of extra deaths, hence the DUI laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 What Brent did resulted in the death of Jerry Brown, but the death was not intentional. What Roethlisberger did did not result in the death of the girl, but it was not only intentional, it was the result of a plan he formulated over an hour or more to get her into a position where she would not be able to get help. One crime fatal but unintentional, the other nonfatal but quite intentional-it seems to me we have a rough equivalence here. I have some ideas of why the announcers treat Roethlisberger like a hero but act quite differently toward Brent, but I'd like to hear the forum's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Manslaughter does not necessarily mean intent. This thread was not meant to be about this, but as long as some people insist: I don't see how anyone can sanely claim that Brent intended to kill Jerry Brown. Is there any evidence at all that Brent was trying to flip his car and kill the guy? If the answer is no, then clearly the death was unintended. Therefore, Brent did not intentionally kill Brown. Contrary to what some people in this thread would have you believe, driving someone home whom you have spent the night drinking with is not the equivalent of playing Russian Roulette with only one chamber unloaded Fact is, the vast majority of people who drive home over the Blood Alcohol Limit make it home quite safely, without being caught, for years. . However, when you drive home over the Blood Alcohol limit, your risk of having an accident is slightly greater. In a country of 300 million people, that increase in risk results in thousands of extra deaths, hence the DUI laws. lol. Where did I say there was "intent"? I said he "killed that kid". He drove drunk, and got caught.. again. This time, cause his passenger DIED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 How about where you said, He murdered that young man. Murder means intent. This thread has gotten bogged down on this question of whether the car crash was an accident, when it clearly was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Is there any reason to consider what Roethlisberger did THAT much better than what Brent did? If so, how? If not, why are the announcers treating the two so differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'm not going to get too involved in the physiology behind everything, nor debate it, I only bring it up to offer a different perspective on things; I did research funded by NASA and the Air Force for a handful of years that studied the cognitive effects of sleep deprivation and long story short, there are numerous periods when being legally drunk is identical to the initial minutes of being woken up out of a deep sleep coinciding with a sleep debt. If one were to change the headline from Drunk Driver accidentally kills best friend to Over-tired driver accidentally killed best friend, I think people would be looking at it a lot differently. The man knowingly made a mistake that resulted in his good friend's death, I see no reason why his football family shouldn't support him. I'm not saying he shouldn't be tried for what he did, of course he should. I just feel sorry for the kid and feel the judgmental outcries of football analysts is a bit much, considering he has to live with the fact that he killed one of his good friends for the rest of his life. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The difference is that this guy is a nobody, where Ben is a star quarterback. If it had been the other way around and this guy raped a girl or two, and Ben killed a friend of his drunk driving; things would be the complete opposite imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 As someone who knows rape victims, I hate Ben a lot more personally. As for Brent...I dunno. It's sadder than anything else, and he certainly didn't do it on purpose. He should serve his sentence, obviously, but it's probably going to be hard for him to live with himself. Hitting a squirrel or a raccoon is enough to ruin my week. If I killed a person (drunk or not), I'd probably never drive again. ETA: I've never actually driven drunk. I think I'm a lot younger than some of you, and from the time we were 8 through the time we were 18, we were educated about drinking and driving. It sunk in. We had no drunk driving deaths while we were growing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 ^ dick. I hope he slips on a banana peel and knocks that poop eating grinning off his fat face. Yes he should never smile again. He should live a life of misery and kill himself while he's at it. **** sake. ****ing ridiculous. Guy made a horrible mistake which resulted in tragedy, he should and will be punished for it. But he didn't intend to murder anyone, he's not an innately bad person because of what happened. I've been directly affected by the same thing and I know the difference between a murderer and a man who acted irresponsibly. He needs to be held accountable for what he done, yes, but it doesn't mean you destroy lives out of what was a horrible accident. And it was an accident, just because it's very avoidable doesn't make it otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Yes he should never smile again. He should live a life of misery and kill himself while he's at it. **** sake. ****ing ridiculous. Guy made a horrible mistake which resulted in tragedy, he should and will be punished for it. But he didn't intend to murder anyone, he's not an innately bad person because of what happened. I've been directly affected by the same thing and I know the difference between a murderer and a man who acted irresponsibly. He needs to be held accountable for what he done, yes, but it doesn't mean you destroy lives out of what was a horrible accident. And it was an accident, just because it's very avoidable doesn't make it otherwise. The guy has driven drunk more than once. I am sure, even being a colossal moron, he learned after the first time he got caught that driving drunk wasn't a smart move. You've been through the same thing? I hope not as the driver who got a passenger killed. Point is, dick made a dumb decision AGAIN. And so soon after, he is on the sidelines smiling away. F that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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