Irish Jet Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Agreed on Scott. Pace? Was brought in to get sacks. never did much of that. An ok player but not as advertised. Gato pretty much nailed but I completely disagree. In fact, they clearly brought someone else in to get sacks that off-season in Vernon Ghsolton. I don’t think Mangini/Tanny were ever under any illusions as to what type of player Pace was. He was a very solid player for us and actually proved to be our best pass rusher regardless (not the most difficult of feats). Shame to see him this year where he was effectively just taking up space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The traditional positive Jets fan rant about anybody from 2009-2010 is that "he brought us to the AFC Championship game!" Bart Scott is the one guy that statement can be believably made about. Yes he is overpaid and his contract is an anchor, but he was a huge key to the team being good and playing the way they did in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Gato pretty much nailed but I completely disagree. In fact, they clearly brought someone else in to get sacks that off-season in Vernon Ghsolton. I don’t think Mangini/Tanny were ever under any illusions as to what type of player Pace was. He was a very solid player for us and actually proved to be our best pass rusher regardless (not the most difficult of feats). Shame to see him this year where he was effectively just taking up space. People forget that when Mangini was here the team didn't want any specialists. Everybody had to play 2-3 positions and Pace fit that mold pretty well. He never would have kept a guy like Maybin around, no matter how effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Moore was very good but he was not the best guard in the NFL. Scott was massively overpriced and that contract made him the highest-paid ILB (maybe the highest paid any-type-of LB) in NFL history at the time. He was one of the best. PFF had him graded near the top too, and I hate that ****ing site. I completely disagree with Scott. The "NFL history" line is pointless too considering they get broken every season. He was an elite Linebacker at the peak of his powers, knew our defense and fitted the system and personnel to perfection. Listen, if all of these moves would have sucked as badly as people think they did we wouldn't have been as competitive as we were in 2009/2010. The staff and management, as incompetent as they may, done some things right. Scott was for me one of our better pickups and a large part of why we dramatically improved as much as we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 He was one of the best. PFF had him graded near the top too, and I hate that ****ing site. I completely disagree with Scott. The "NFL history" line is pointless too considering they get broken every season. He was an elite Linebacker at the peak of his powers, knew our defense and fitted the system and personnel to perfection. Listen, if all of these moves would have sucked as badly as people think they did we wouldn't have been as competitive as we were in 2009/2010. The staff and management, as incompetent as they may, done some things right. Scott was for me one of our better pickups and a large part of why we dramatically improved as much as we did. We signed Scott for 6 years $48M. He was good for 2 seasons and is a locker room douchebag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Just because your safety is faster than your LBs does not mean he is fast enough to play the position. You won't get any argument out of me there. Hell, that was the most complimentary post I've ever written about Smith, and yet it still included making fun of him for his constant tripping and falling, referred to his play as awful, and talked of celebrating his departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 We signed Scott for 6 years $48M. He was good for 2 seasons and is a locker room douchebag. You've been here 8 years, you're a complete locker room cancer and you're still appreciated by ownership and your little cult fanbase. Justice for Scott! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Some examples of overpaying underachieving players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Gato pretty much nailed but I completely disagree. In fact, they clearly brought someone else in to get sacks that off-season in Vernon Ghsolton. I don’t think Mangini/Tanny were ever under any illusions as to what type of player Pace was. He was a very solid player for us and actually proved to be our best pass rusher regardless (not the most difficult of feats). Shame to see him this year where he was effectively just taking up space. Guess my memory is off. I thought he was getting a bunch of sacks and kinda become more of a run guy when he got here. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Guess my memory is off. I thought he was getting a bunch of sacks and kinda become more of a run guy when he got here. My bad. When can we sign Baby Crusher to replace these bums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno the Jet Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I don't at all think the coaching staff had little to do with the items I mentioned above (which is depressing when you read them one after the next). I don't nearly consider Rex to be the villain some do, but I also don't buy into what is essentially a conspiracy theory that most or all these overpriced or bad players were thrust upon him without his enthusiastic approval. "Hey Rex - surprise! Your new WRs are Burress and Mason. I know you didn't want them but just shut up and coach them." "Hey Rex - surprise! Your starting QB for the next 2 years is guaranteed to be Mark Sanchez. I know he had a bad year and atrocious end of the season, but just shut up and start him." "Hey Rex - surprise! We want to bring in Bart Scott for $8M/year. Go wait outside his house in your car until the stroke of midnight when free agency officially begins." "Hey Rex - surprise! We extended Santonio Holmes for $9M/year. Now go make him a team captain and act like you wanted this." I don't find any of this stuff remotely believable, do you? I do not find that notion even a little bit believable. I don't think we disagree all that much. My original post about "most of the coaching staff" was in reference to opinions of Harris. Of course I don't think Tanny made all these horrible decisions on his own without the coaches input. That said, I assure that Rex discussed these matters with his staff, and then discussed them with Tanny. I seriously doubt they all sat around in the same room to discuss every move. I would think the HC and maybe the two head coordinators met with Tanny to make decisions. Also, I am inclined to believe the Sanchez extension and the Tebow debacle were largely Woody's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 We signed Scott for 6 years $48M. He was good for 2 seasons and is a locker room douchebag. 6 years and 48M mean nothing though. They could've cut him a few years ago for a minimal cap hit and didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kay_gee Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I don't at all think the coaching staff had little to do with the items I mentioned above (which is depressing when you read them one after the next). I don't nearly consider Rex to be the villain some do, but I also don't buy into what is essentially a conspiracy theory that most or all these overpriced or bad players were thrust upon him without his enthusiastic approval. "Hey Rex - surprise! Your new WRs are Burress and Mason. I know you didn't want them but just shut up and coach them." "Hey Rex - surprise! Your starting QB for the next 2 years is guaranteed to be Mark Sanchez. I know he had a bad year and atrocious end of the season, but just shut up and start him." "Hey Rex - surprise! We want to bring in Bart Scott for $8M/year. Go wait outside his house in your car until the stroke of midnight when free agency officially begins." "Hey Rex - surprise! We extended Santonio Holmes for $9M/year. Now go make him a team captain and act like you wanted this." I don't find any of this stuff remotely believable, do you? I do not find that notion even a little bit believable. No, but to me this is what made Tannenbaum such a bad GM. My theory has been, and has been since the cracks started to show in the middle of 2011, that if you hire a guy like Rex, who is a sunny, optimistic guy and thinks everything will be great no matter which players is taking the field every week, you have to recognize that and make up for it. It's not necessarily always a bad thing, but Rex is the kind of guy who always believes that every player can be a great player and everything is going to work. A great manager gets the most out of everyone in the most efficient manner, and does that by knowing both their strengths and limitations. Tannenbaum hired Rex, but because he was not a great personnel guy, he was completely incapable of compensating for Rex's limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 When can we sign Baby Crusher to replace these bums? Any contract with him has to have a stipulation that he passes Algebra and stops stealing my nice socks. Then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 6 years and 48M mean nothing though. They could've cut him a few years ago for a minimal cap hit and didn't. We only signed him a few years ago and guaranteed him like $20M or something. At best, we could have let him play out his deal, not gotten the little bit of cap space in 2011 that he "gave" us in exchange for guaranteeing him 2012. But his first 2 years were totally guaranteed and the first 3 years were essentially guaranteed (we'd gain nothing by cutting him) the day it was signed. I don't have the info in front of me but that is my recollection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 We only signed him a few years ago and guaranteed him like $20M or something. At best, we could have let him play out his deal, not gotten the little bit of cap space in 2011 that he "gave" us in exchange for guaranteeing him 2012. But his first 2 years were totally guaranteed and the first 3 years were essentially guaranteed (we'd gain nothing by cutting him) the day it was signed. I don't have the info in front of me but that is my recollection. I don't think it would've made sense to cut him (due to the quality of his play) until after 2011 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I don't think we disagree all that much. My original post about "most of the coaching staff" was in reference to opinions of Harris. Of course I don't think Tanny made all these horrible decisions on his own without the coaches input. That said, I assure that Rex discussed these matters with his staff, and then discussed them with Tanny. I seriously doubt they all sat around in the same room to discuss every move. I would think the HC and maybe the two head coordinators met with Tanny to make decisions. Also, I am inclined to believe the Sanchez extension and the Tebow debacle were largely Woody's doing. I hear you. But you're referring to the judgment of the same people. I don't believe the Sanchez extension even remotely came with anything other than Rex's wholehearted endorsement. The guy has a f*cking tattoo of his (otherwise naked) wife wearing a Sanchez jersey. He LOVED Sanchez as his QB and felt he was and/or would be a good QB at worst. I'v seen nothing to suggest he wasn't very much involved with drafting him and then extending him when that time came. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I don't think it would've made sense to cut him (due to the quality of his play) until after 2011 anyway. He was very good but certainly wasn't worth what we paid him. Hell, AFTER his deal the Ravens locked up the murderer for less money. It was idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 He was very good but certainly wasn't worth what we paid him. Hell, AFTER his deal the Ravens locked up the murderer for less money. It was idiotic. No argument that it was too much but at least he contributed for 3 years. This is way down on the list of bad Jet signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 No argument that it was too much but at least he contributed for 3 years. This is way down on the list of bad Jet signings. It was the judgment of this coaching staff that he was worth $8M per year. That is all I was alluding to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 It was the judgment of this coaching staff that he was worth $8M per year. That is all I was alluding to. Rex probably told Tannembaum to get him no matter what the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 You won't get any argument out of me there. Hell, that was the most complimentary post I've ever written about Smith, and yet it still included making fun of him for his constant tripping and falling, referred to his play as awful, and talked of celebrating his departure. i know. I used to think that someone tied his cleats together as a practical joke on the sideline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Any contract with him has to have a stipulation that he passes Algebra and stops stealing my nice socks. Then yes. Is he using them for his feet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 good I'll never have to see smith follow a TE into the endzone again....3 yards behind him and not gaining any ground.....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Sad how underrated Scott was in his tenure here. Yeah he was badly declining in the last two seasons when he was physically broken down, but his play in the two title game seasons was nothing short of immense. Shocked he’s lasted in the league as long as he has the way he plays. Just an animal against the run and in disrupting blocking schemes, made Harris look 10 times the player he actually is. Loved his attitude, even if that’s what ended up causing fans to really turn on him. Pace had his moments too, particularly early on. Heck his destruction of Eli in pre-season was moneys worth alone. The two Smiths can go **** each other sideways. Wasters. Yeah, I'm gonna buck public opinion here when it comes to Scott... I thought he played well and had some very solid games. the problem is the price tag. As it is with Pace. Honestly, I think Scott earned his paychecks more than Pace, and not by a little. Bottom line, though, in a capped league players must play at or above their contracted value. And neither is capable of that going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I don't at all think the coaching staff had little to do with the items I mentioned above (which is depressing when you read them one after the next). I don't nearly consider Rex to be the villain some do, but I also don't buy into what is essentially a conspiracy theory that most or all these overpriced or bad players were thrust upon him without his enthusiastic approval. "Hey Rex - surprise! Your new WRs are Burress and Mason. I know you didn't want them but just shut up and coach them." "Hey Rex - surprise! Your starting QB for the next 2 years is guaranteed to be Mark Sanchez. I know he had a bad year and atrocious end of the season, but just shut up and start him." "Hey Rex - surprise! We want to bring in Bart Scott for $8M/year. Go wait outside his house in your car until the stroke of midnight when free agency officially begins." "Hey Rex - surprise! We extended Santonio Holmes for $9M/year. Now go make him a team captain and act like you wanted this." I don't find any of this stuff remotely believable, do you? I do not find that notion even a little bit believable. ooof! Wow. It can't be more succinct than this. Outside of Scott...who was brought in to be a culture-changer as much as a player...there isn't much to defend here. especially Sanchez and Holmes. They make my peter crawl up tight. Which is a wierd thing to say. I admit it. Wierd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisYearsModel Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 They all suck. Good riddance. Especially Eric Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Am I the only person who actually likes Calvin Pace and Bart Scott on our team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Am I the only person who actually likes Calvin Pace and Bart Scott on our team? No. Well Pace maybe. Scott is good enough at what his job is, but not good enough to get that pay check he cashes. At a much reduced salary, sure. I want him here. But at the atrocious amount he was getting paid, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanBe_Tebowing Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 No. Well Pace maybe. Scott is good enough at what his job is, but not good enough to get that pay check he cashes. At a much reduced salary, sure. I want him here. But at the atrocious amount he was getting paid, no. This. For as much as JN gets on him for his big mouth and pass coverage, he actually plays the run well. I think he'd be very useful in goal line/ short yardage situations but not as a full time starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.05f3dc52804d5fd84cf09ccfcd7bd10b.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.