Lizard King Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 We're upper deck holders so I have no stake in this and can't really say from an emotional standpoint what I'd do. From a business standpoint, this is one of the worst returns on an investment out there. From a consumer standpoint, you are getting a seriously inferior product. But the Post put an article out today and the idea seems to have some steam. Anyone feeling like walking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Anyone doing this is retarded. If you bought it you thought it was a long term investment and you're going to sell it at it's lowest value? What the hell is wrong with people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 In a section in the 200s in the end zone. We will walk unless they waive the PSL. No way I would reupp unless they do so. And the Jets are not going to sue thousands of their own fans. It would be a PR nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Anyone doing this is retarded. If you bought it you thought it was a long term investment and you're going to sell it at it's lowest value? What the hell is wrong with people. Investment ? I can see the financial circumstances change for many people with the economy et al. And there are many people who are on a payment plan, so they have not paid the entire amount of PSL's as yet. I would not be surprised if quite a few of them walked away. I am hearing some people intend to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 In a section in the 200s in the end zone. We will walk unless they waive the PSL. No way I would reupp unless they do so. And the Jets are not going to sue thousands of their own fans. It would be a PR nightmare. So you're going to throw the money you already spent down the toilet? Why? Wait a few years till the team is better and you'll get your money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I know some people that have walked away- never was an investment. It is part of your entertainment dollars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 I know some people that have walked away- never was an investment. It is part of your entertainment dollars Just to be clear, by "walking away", I mean defaulting on your contract and not paying the upcoming PSL installment. Is that what they did and if so, how did the Jets treat them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I know some people that have walked away- never was an investment. It is part of your entertainment dollars Aren't they being sued by whoever provided the financing? There is no way the Jets did that in house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 We're upper deck holders so I have no stake in this and can't really say from an emotional standpoint what I'd do. From a business standpoint, this is one of the worst returns on an investment out there. From a consumer standpoint, you are getting a seriously inferior product. But the Post put an article out today and the idea seems to have some steam. Anyone feeling like walking? If anyone bought thinking this is an investment then they get what they deserve. Seriously inferior? I didnt know there were guarantee's for winning with buying tickets and PSL's You're buying rights to purchase tickets for a game. Not the performance. “I’ve come to the conclusion it’s just cheaper to go to road games and buy home games through StubHub,” said Kenny Scarabaggio, a season-ticket holder since 1983. “This whole PSL process was a rip-off.” And yet he bought in...should have known what he was getting into and now want out and hoping the media will help embarrass the Jets so they dont sue people like him. I hope the Jets sue him and every other PSL owner who defaults and demands immediate payment of the entire amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I do not know the details to elaborate yet . You may have to pay off the PSL portion and they let you out of contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The point I made it was never an investment-Bitonti comments withstanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 If anyone bought thinking this is an investment then they get what they deserve. Seriously inferior? I didnt know there were guarantee's for winning with buying tickets and PSL's You're buying rights to purchase tickets for a game. Not the performance. I believe these were sold to the public as 'investments.' Maybe not directly by the Jets, but when PSL's were originally conceived, they called them investments as a marketing tool. Since there is a resale market, it's fair to call them that. I'm not advocating that people should be guaranteed a profit, but I'm not going to say that it's ok for teams to call them investments when things looked good, and just "buyer beware" when things are tough. Further, Giant PSL's have increased in value, that's what winning will do to their value. Which dovetails into, ... you really feel that the product put on the feel has been a good one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The Jets are not suing anyone. People who used the PSL payment plan (financing) understood that if they defaulted on a payment the Jets took control of the PSL and any money paid towards it was lost. The problem is 2 seats cost like $3,000 or more for the season tickets and parking. Since so many fans can’t sell the seats even at cost to recoup some money they would rather walk away, with money lost, then have to buy the tickets and go to every game. In the long run the money saved on the ticket cost will offset the money already paid to the PSL especially if they had the 15 year plan and put down the 20%. So for 2 seats each PSL $2,500, total $5,000, they’ve probably paid out like $1,600, if they made two payments. So walking away letting the Jets have the PSL back and saving having to buy the tickets and going to the games saves money. People will just eat the money they put into the PSL since they can’t sell the PSL and even come close to breaking even and don’t want the tickets. The Jets problem is since there is no market to re-sell these PSLs they are now getting back, the team needs the money from the PSL’s to pay the interest on the bonds that built the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 The Jets are not suing anyone. People who used the PSL payment plan (financing) understood that if they defaulted on a payment the Jets took control of the PSL and any money paid towards it was lost. The problem is 2 seats cost like $3,000 or more for the season tickets and parking. Since so many fans can’t sell the seats even at cost to recoup some money they would rather walk away, with money lost, then have to buy the tickets and go to every game. In the long run the money saved on the ticket cost will offset the money already paid to the PSL especially if they had the 15 year plan and put down the 20%. So for 2 seats each PSL $2,500, total $5,000, they’ve probably paid out like $1,600, if they made two payments. So walking away letting the Jets have the PSL back and saving having to buy the tickets and going to the games saves money. People will just eat the money they put into the PSL since they can’t sell the PSL and even come close to breaking even and don’t want the tickets. The Jets problem is since there is no market to re-sell these PSLs they are now getting back, the team needs the money from the PSL’s to pay the interest on the bonds that built the stadium. That's great info, thank you. So by defaulting, the Jets get the rights to the seats back, but you're not liable in court for breach of contract? Because this is becoming quite the stir about being a PR nightmare, but would be ever more SAD if the press was stirring even more SHT into the pot with a red herring like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I believe these were sold to the public as 'investments.' Maybe not directly by the Jets, but when PSL's were originally conceived, they called them investments as a marketing tool. Since there is a resale market, it's fair to call them that. I'm not advocating that people should be guaranteed a profit, but I'm not going to say that it's ok for teams to call them investments when things looked good, and just "buyer beware" when things are tough. Further, Giant PSL's have increased in value, that's what winning will do to their value. Which dovetails into, ... you really feel that the product put on the feel has been a good one? The product on the field has nothing to do with the PSL and whether its good or not. A PSL is for the right to purchase a seat to a game. Nothing more. As for the investment... I cant say 100% sure the Jets never said its not an investment. I wasnt too involved with the process since I told them to go screw, but I cant see the Jets saying anything that would come back and bite them in the ass if people sued to get out of their PSL's. Simply put. People who signed a contract for the PSL and expected anything more than the right to purchase tickets to a Jets home game are morons and get what they deserve if they try to wiggle out of their contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The Jets are not suing anyone. People who used the PSL payment plan (financing) understood that if they defaulted on a payment the Jets took control of the PSL and any money paid towards it was lost. The problem is 2 seats cost like $3,000 or more for the season tickets and parking. Since so many fans can’t sell the seats even at cost to recoup some money they would rather walk away, with money lost, then have to buy the tickets and go to every game. In the long run the money saved on the ticket cost will offset the money already paid to the PSL especially if they had the 15 year plan and put down the 20%. So for 2 seats each PSL $2,500, total $5,000, they’ve probably paid out like $1,600, if they made two payments. So walking away letting the Jets have the PSL back and saving having to buy the tickets and going to the games saves money. People will just eat the money they put into the PSL since they can’t sell the PSL and even come close to breaking even and don’t want the tickets. The Jets problem is since there is no market to re-sell these PSLs they are now getting back, the team needs the money from the PSL’s to pay the interest on the bonds that built the stadium. Hopefully someone has a copy of the contract, because the PSL contract on the Jets website states that the full PSL payment would be due in full if there is a default. http://www.newyorkjets.com/assets/docs/non-club-psl.pdf Upon termination pursuant to this Section 9, (w) Licensee will forfeit all monies previously paid to JSD hereunder, (x) Licensee will forfeit the PSL for the current (or upcoming) NFL season and all NFL seasons that follow, (y) JSD and its affiliates will have no further liability or obligation to Licensee, and (z) Licensee’s obligation to pay the outstanding balance of the PSL Fee, if any, shall be accelerated, making the full outstanding balance immediately due and payable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Everyone is just figuring out that the Jets are an inferior product? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 and even if the salespeople selling the PSL's to fans did lie to them about anything, like calling this an "investment" the Jets absolve themselves of any wrongdoing and most likely would have themselves well protected if this ever goes to an arbitrator, which it will since thats where this would be handled, according to the PSL contract. This PSL Agreement (including the Confirmation) contains the entire agreement of the parties with respect to the matters provided for herein, and supersedes any written or oral agreement, instrument, application, promotional material, brochure, website information, or other representation previously made, distributed or entered by or on behalf of them or their respective affiliates with respect to those matters. JSD HAS NOT MADE, AND LICENSEE ACKNOWLEDGES THAT IT HAS NOT RELIED ON, ANY REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE TERMS OF THIS PSL AGREEMENT, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS PSL AGREEMENT. No amendment or modification to this PSL Agreement shall be effective unless the amendment or modification is in writing and signed by both JSD and Licensee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Everyone is just figuring out that the Jets are an inferior product? Yeah... but it burns your ass more now that it costs so much damn money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 We're upper deck holders so I have no stake in this and can't really say from an emotional standpoint what I'd do. From a business standpoint, this is one of the worst returns on an investment out there. From a consumer standpoint, you are getting a seriously inferior product. But the Post put an article out today and the idea seems to have some steam. Anyone feeling like walking? I walk my dog every morning. It's nice, he poops and pees and I drink coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Its tough to show up 8 Sundays a year, pay what you're paying and watch a team not score points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Its tough to show up 8 Sundays a year, pay what you're paying and watch a team not score points. dont forget the 2 preseason games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Its tough to show up 8 Sundays a year, pay what you're paying and watch a team not score points. What the hell did people expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Hopefully someone has a copy of the contract, because the PSL contract on the Jets website states that the full PSL payment would be due in full if there is a default. http://www.newyorkje...on-club-psl.pdf That is how it was explained to me but the Jets could I have been lying to me. Wouldn't surprise me but I told the Jets I wasn't going to give any info on myself (finances) and they said nothing was needed if you don't pay they keep your money and re-sell the PSL. Again they are prone to lie so it wouldn't shock me if they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 That is how it was explained to me but could I have been lied to by the Jets. Wouldn't surprise me but I told the Jets I wasn't going to give any info on myself (finances) and they said nothing was needed if you don't pay they keep your money and re-sell the PSL. Again they are prone to lie so it wouldn't shock me if they did. I wouldnt doubt they did lie. Those salespeople needed to sell. But the truth is always in the final contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 and even if the salespeople selling the PSL's to fans did lie to them about anything, like calling this an "investment" the Jets absolve themselves of any wrongdoing and most likely would have themselves well protected if this ever goes to an arbitrator, which it will since thats where this would be handled, according to the PSL contract. I am no lawyer and i do not play one on TeeVee. But whenever there is clause of arbitration involved in a contract you should have a choice to NO to arbitration in the contract itself. It's a choice. That's how it works in most contracts (not PSL related) i have had occassion to go through. With accepting arbitration you may be signing away lot of your legal rights. That's the way i understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Hopefully someone has a copy of the contract, because the PSL contract on the Jets website states that the full PSL payment would be due in full if there is a default. http://www.newyorkje...on-club-psl.pdf Either a 3rd party does the financing or the Jets factor it the second you sign the paperwork. There is no way you'd get off the hook for just not paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I am no lawyer and i do not play one on TeeVee. But whenever there is clause of arbitration involved in a contract you should have a choice to NO to arbitration in the contract itself. It's a choice. That's how it works in most contracts (not PSL related) i have had occassion to go through. With accepting arbitration you may be signing away lot of your legal rights. That's the way i understand it. thats why Im hoping someone has and is willing to post their signed, final PSL contract. From the contract they have online, its a pretty sh!tty contract for the buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Either a 3rd party does the financing or the Jets factor it the second you sign the paperwork. There is no way you'd get off the hook for just not paying. Fans are hoping the Jets get embarrassed by the PSL exodus and waive the full payment so they dont get bad press from it. Good luck with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 http://youtu.be/Hxg0b7Z-uH4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 What happens if I do not purchase my season tickets or complete my PSL payments? If you default on your obligations under the PSL Agreement or Club Seat Agreement, Jets Stadium Development LLC will have the rights listed in the default provisions of those agreements, which include forfeiture of your PSL and all monies you have paid for that PSL up to that point. This means you will no longer have the right to buy season tickets for those seats for that season or any future season. Jets Stadium Development LLC then will have the right to resell your PSL with no obligation to you as the former PSL holder. http://www.newyorkjets.com/tickets-and-stadium/faq.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I wouldnt doubt they did lie. Those salespeople needed to sell. But the truth is always in the final contract. http://www.newyorkje...tadium/faq.html I also posted but they say the former PSL holder is not liable for any additional monies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 http://www.newyorkje...tadium/faq.html I also posted but they say the former PSL holder is not liable for any additional monies. Not according to the PSL contract: (z) Licensee’s obligation to pay the outstanding balance of the PSL Fee, if any, shall be accelerated, making the full outstanding balance immediately due and payable. JSD thereafter will have the right, but not the obligation, to relicense the forfeited PSL. Any amounts JSD receives from such relicensing shall not reduce Licensee’s obligations to JSD or entitle Licensee to reimbursement or recovery of any amounts paid under this PSL Agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowonejetfan Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I love my seats and my PSLs are paid off. I regularly sell games at a profit and my PSLs trade at a profit in the secondary. Guess what that is not a news story. 50% of PSL seats in any section were the bottom 50% of seats. Did someone who bought LLEZ, middle of aisle, drip-line seats think he was going to ever sell for a profit the psl or seats. Many sections such as club seats, ticket prices are way overpriced. Many seats such as LLEZ, LL corners, Mezz B the view is terrible. Unless you are LLGL, LLSL towards the 50 or lower row or Mezz A low row corner, aisle seats toward the 50 side your seats are a commodity that will only sell at the lowest price. I say 10,000 PSL seats were moneymakers the rest was a bad investment the day you bought them. Buyer Beware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denden29 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Not according to the PSL contract: (z) Licensee’s obligation to pay the outstanding balance of the PSL Fee, if any, shall be accelerated, making the full outstanding balance immediately due and payable. JSD thereafter will have the right, but not the obligation, to relicense the forfeited PSL. Any amounts JSD receives from such relicensing shall not reduce Licensee’s obligations to JSD or entitle Licensee to reimbursement or recovery of any amounts paid under this PSL Agreement. Well I'm not going to go through a boring contract since I'm fine with my PSL but all I can say is what I was told matches what is on the web-site but I can check with the account people and find out for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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