ZachEY Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Averaged 30.5 points. The winners averaged 38.5 points. The Jets averaged 17.6 points this season. So, does defense even really matter anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Averaged 30.5 points. The winners averaged 38.5 points. The Jets averaged 17.6 points this season. So, does defense even really matter anymore? Not really, this is why Rex is so clueless. This has been obvious for 5 years now, and he insists on ignoring the offense to build an average defense, and a ground and pound offense. In todays NFL if you cannot score at will, you dont win. The fact that any HC, let alone ours, does not get this, and gets paid millions per year is disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Averaged 30.5 points. The winners averaged 38.5 points. The Jets averaged 17.6 points this season. So, does defense even really matter anymore? Nope. Let's lock up all our salary in the CB position!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Nope. Let's lock up all our salary in the CB position!!! HAHAHAHAHA! Rex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolot Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Somewhere Rex was watching these games saying..." they'd never do this to MY defense....that will never change and that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Baltimores defense was a big reason they won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 the reason why teams scored so much is the sh!tty defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryK Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 You gotta at least get enough 1st downs to rest the D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Averaged 30.5 points. The winners averaged 38.5 points. The Jets averaged 17.6 points this season. So, does defense even really matter anymore? Not really, this is why Rex is so clueless. This has been obvious for 5 years now, and he insists on ignoring the offense to build an average defense, and a ground and pound offense. In todays NFL if you cannot score at will, you dont win. The fact that any HC, let alone ours, does not get this, and gets paid millions per year is disturbing. Right. Here's the top 12 teams ranked in scoring defense and their offensive ranking; 1. Seahawks 2. Niners 3. Bears 4. Broncos 5. Falcons 6. Steelers 7. Dolphins 8. Bengals 9. Patriots 10. Texans 11. Packers 12. Ravens What a strange coincidence that all 8 teams that played this weekend happened to all have top 12 defenses. (Yes, all these teams were also in the top half of scoring offensive teams, but let's not go pretending that defense is completely irrelevant. As it's obviously not.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Nope. Let's lock up all our salary in the CB position!!! Actually if there's a defensive position to lock up it would be a game changing CB at this point unless there's a Von Miller/Terrell Suggs/DeMarcus Ware/Justin Smith/Vince Wilfork/Haloti Ngata/Willis level player in the front 7. Fact is, with teams passing so much a great CB like Revis can have the kind of impact a great front 7 pass rusher has. His 2009 and 2010 put him in the discussion for best defensive player in the league. The problem the Jets have had is that the offense doesn't cover the fact that there is no great front 7 pass rusher on the Jets. Dare I say: CB should be the new LT as far as paychecks go. They basically have to be the WR but with may more room for a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Averaged 30.5 points. The winners averaged 38.5 points. The Jets averaged 17.6 points this season. So, does defense even really matter anymore? in the 4th quarter when you need a big stop or a big play or a timely QB sack when it counts yes defense matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Right. Here's the top 12 teams ranked in scoring defense and their offensive ranking; 1. Seahawks 2. Niners 3. Bears 4. Broncos 5. Falcons 6. Steelers 7. Dolphins 8. Bengals 9. Patriots 10. Texans 11. Packers 12. Ravens What a strange coincidence that all 8 teams that played this weekend happened to all have top 12 defenses. (Yes, all these teams were also in the top half of scoring offensive teams, but let's not go pretending that defense is completely irrelevant. As it's obviously not.) Scoring Defense is a fuzzy stat that, in large part, can be manipulated with Offensive Time if Possession. The TOP rankings pretty much follow the Scoring Defense rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Right. Here's the top 12 teams ranked in scoring defense and their offensive ranking; 1. Seahawks 2. Niners 3. Bears 4. Broncos 5. Falcons 6. Steelers 7. Dolphins 8. Bengals 9. Patriots 10. Texans 11. Packers 12. Ravens What a strange coincidence that all 8 teams that played this weekend happened to all have top 12 defenses. (Yes, all these teams were also in the top half of scoring offensive teams, but let's not go pretending that defense is completely irrelevant. As it's obviously not.) Of course defense matters, but, in todays NFL, here is how I see it: Great Offense, you can still win with no defense, pats almost won the superbowl last year with this combo Good Offense, you need to play some defense, but you don't have to be great. Average Offense, you need to play elite level defense to be a serious threat Below average offense, it does not really matter how good your defense is, you cannot win Terrible offense, see the Jets Offense has become much more important in todays NFL, but of course defense will always have its place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Scoring Defense is a fuzzy stat that, in large part, can be manipulated with Offensive Time if Possession. The TOP rankings pretty much follow the Scoring Defense rankings. Nothing fuzzy about how many ppg you allow. Nice try at spinning it though. The Ravens defense did a good job shutting down Manning. Remember 2 tds were from returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Actually if there's a defensive position to lock up it would be a game changing CB at this point unless there's a Von Miller/Terrell Suggs/DeMarcus Ware/Justin Smith/Vince Wilfork/Haloti Ngata/Willis level player in the front 7. Fact is, with teams passing so much a great CB like Revis can have the kind of impact a great front 7 pass rusher has. His 2009 and 2010 put him in the discussion for best defensive player in the league. The problem the Jets have had is that the offense doesn't cover the fact that there is no great front 7 pass rusher on the Jets. Dare I say: CB should be the new LT as far as paychecks go. They basically have to be the WR but with may more room for a penalty. In general, I don't disagree with you, however in our unique circumstance having 2 CBs that can lock-down WRs and absolutely no offense of our own to score points is, well, pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Nothing fuzzy about how many ppg you allow. Nice try at spinning it though. The Ravens defense did a good job shutting down Manning. Remember 2 tds were from returns. Sure there is. Special teams affect ppg by yardage they may give up or not,or scores they may give up. Offenses (the jets!) give up scores too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Sure there is. Special teams affect ppg by yardage they may give up or not,or scores they may give up. Offenses (the jets!) give up scores too. Sure but over 16 games it is reliable enough to rank teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Nothing fuzzy about how many ppg you allow. Nice try at spinning it though. The Ravens defense did a good job shutting down Manning. Remember 2 tds were from returns. I'm not arguing math with a man who believes that 1. PSLs are great investments and 2. thought that Cleveland could win without Lebron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Baltimores defense was a big reason they won. The Broncos pulling in the horns with timeouts and 30 odd seconds at the ends of both halves was arguably why they lost. Pussyball and leaving it to the defense loses. How FOx or Manniong or both did that is really mindboggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Averaged 30.5 points. The winners averaged 38.5 points. The Jets averaged 17.6 points this season. So, does defense even really matter anymore? Baltimore's defense only allowed 21 points. Its one of the main reasons they won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 ya need The Broncos pulling in the horns with timeouts and 30 odd seconds at the ends of both halves was arguably why they lost. Pussyball and leaving it to the defense loses. How FOx or Manniong or both did that is really mindboggling. Manning was throwing balloons out there all game. with 30 secs left it's a good way to get a 38 year old QB picked off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Baltimore's defense only allowed 21 points. Its one of the main reasons they won. this. ya need both. the Jets only have one. but that's better than none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I'm not arguing math with a man who believes that 1. PSLs are great investments and 2. thought that Cleveland could win without Lebron. Please tell me when I ever said PSL's are a good investment... I just love my seats and without PSL's I would never have had them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Last year, the Giants beat the high scoring Patriots 21-17 in the Super Bowl. Defense probably had something to do with their win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Last year, the Giants beat the high scoring Patriots 21-17 in the Super Bowl. Defense probably had something to do with their win. Yup, defense and dropped passes. And the Giants offense was a very good offense last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Wonder if it's lost on Rex how many points are being scored on offense by winning playoff teams: 30, 31 (OT), 41, 45. In the playoffs in today's NFL, the refs let a lot more stuff go and seem to give more deference to the offense. It'll mostly go both ways, but defenses - even good ones like San Fran and Houston have - get negated in a hurry. A team with its eye on the superbowl doesn't just need to score points. It needs to score touchdowns. Like three or four of them in a game on demand, maybe more. Enough to recover from a pick-6 and a defense surrendering some real points. I don't want to hear any more, from the likes of Sanchez knob slurpers, that a defense that surrendered a net of 15 points is the main reason we lost a championship game while the offense put up a net of 10 points. Look what all these teams did this weekend. The losing teams this weekend scored 28, 28, 31, and 35. (Denver got 14 of their points on kick/punt returns, but it is unfair to assume they would have scored zero; in other words their offense is getting punished, statistically, because they returned 2 kicks). Our last playoff game the offense scored 7 for the Steelers and then scored 17 for the Jets (mostly against a softer defense riding its 21-point first half lead). The bulk of the blame went - and to some, still goes - to the defense. Those same people laugh at a 3-TD performance from Manning, with a pick-6 that resulted from a ball bouncing off his receivers hands up into the air. And blame for that game chiefly goes to him rather than the defense that let up 4 TDs in regulation. Not that horse-face isn't without faults, but the irony is kind of funny. Same people who blamed our defense for the Pittsburgh loss where they gave up 15 now blame Manning for a Broncos loss when their defense gave up 31. One wonders if Rex was watching this and realized that the game's changed, or if he watched and just was shaking his head about how those defenses giving up all these points didn't have his Ryan stamp on them. You can still win 9+ games with a bad passing game. But usually those teams get bounced from the playoffs. When your defense doesn't have it, or when the opponent's offense has your number that day, you have to be able to get into a shootout and put up points in a hurry instead of trying to re-establish the run to set up the pass while you're down multiple scores. ***moved post; didn't see someone started a topic on this same exact thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Wonder if it's lost on Rex how many points are being scored on offense by winning playoff teams: 30, 31 (OT), 41, 45. In the playoffs in today's NFL, the refs let a lot more stuff go and seem to give more deference to the offense. It'll mostly go both ways, but defenses - even good ones like San Fran and Houston have - get negated in a hurry. A team with its eye on the superbowl doesn't just need to score points. It needs to score touchdowns. Like three or four of them in a game on demand, maybe more. Enough to recover from a pick-6 and a defense surrendering some real points. I don't want to hear any more, from the likes of Sanchez knob slurpers, that a defense that surrendered a net of 15 points is the main reason we lost a championship game while the offense put up a net of 10 points. Look what all these teams did this weekend. The losing teams this weekend scored 28, 28, 31, and 35. (Denver got 14 of their points on kick/punt returns, but it is unfair to assume they would have scored zero; in other words their offense is getting punished, statistically, because they returned 2 kicks). Our last playoff game the offense scored 7 for the Steelers and then scored 17 for the Jets (mostly against a softer defense riding its 21-point first half lead). The bulk of the blame went - and to some, still goes - to the defense. Those same people laugh at a 3-TD performance from Manning, with a pick-6 that resulted from a ball bouncing off his receivers hands up into the air. And blame for that game chiefly goes to him rather than the defense that let up 4 TDs in regulation. Not that horse-face isn't without faults, but the irony is kind of funny. Same people who blamed our defense for the Pittsburgh loss where they gave up 15 now blame Manning for a Broncos loss when their defense gave up 31. One wonders if Rex was watching this and realized that the game's changed, or if he watched and just was shaking his head about how those defenses giving up all these points didn't have his Ryan stamp on them. You can still win 9+ games with a bad passing game. But usually those teams get bounced from the playoffs. When your defense doesn't have it, or when the opponent's offense has your number that day, you have to be able to get into a shootout and put up points in a hurry instead of trying to re-establish the run to set up the pass while you're down multiple scores. ***moved post; didn't see someone started a topic on this same exact thing. This is all true. And utterly lost on Wrecks Ryan. Screw ruels changes it will always be 1975 with the Ryans, winning 13-10 with their 4-6 defense.Truth is there are enough bad teams that you can win 9-10 games with a bit of luck doing that but you won't win anything in the postseason. Wrecks is the beeper salesman in an iphone world. Notice there were a whole hsot of supposed great pass rushers who the last 2 weeks were negated-Hawk, Matthews, Abraham. Watt, Freeney. So the exact great white whale Wrecks keeps chasing in the draft isn't all that important a commodity on draft day,a nd not nearly so as a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Manning out there throwing Chad flutter balls and he's still getting excused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Being able to play defense at an elite level still makes a difference in this league. Of course, doing so at the expense of the offense also makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Wonder if it's lost on Rex how many points are being scored on offense by winning playoff teams: 30, 31 (OT), 41, 45. In the playoffs in today's NFL, the refs let a lot more stuff go and seem to give more deference to the offense. It'll mostly go both ways, but defenses - even good ones like San Fran and Houston have - get negated in a hurry. A team with its eye on the superbowl doesn't just need to score points. It needs to score touchdowns. Like three or four of them in a game on demand, maybe more. Enough to recover from a pick-6 and a defense surrendering some real points. I don't want to hear any more, from the likes of Sanchez knob slurpers, that a defense that surrendered a net of 15 points is the main reason we lost a championship game while the offense put up a net of 10 points. Look what all these teams did this weekend. The losing teams this weekend scored 28, 28, 31, and 35. (Denver got 14 of their points on kick/punt returns, but it is unfair to assume they would have scored zero; in other words their offense is getting punished, statistically, because they returned 2 kicks). Our last playoff game the offense scored 7 for the Steelers and then scored 17 for the Jets (mostly against a softer defense riding its 21-point first half lead). The bulk of the blame went - and to some, still goes - to the defense. Those same people laugh at a 3-TD performance from Manning, with a pick-6 that resulted from a ball bouncing off his receivers hands up into the air. And blame for that game chiefly goes to him rather than the defense that let up 4 TDs in regulation. Not that horse-face isn't without faults, but the irony is kind of funny. Same people who blamed our defense for the Pittsburgh loss where they gave up 15 now blame Manning for a Broncos loss when their defense gave up 31. One wonders if Rex was watching this and realized that the game's changed, or if he watched and just was shaking his head about how those defenses giving up all these points didn't have his Ryan stamp on them. You can still win 9+ games with a bad passing game. But usually those teams get bounced from the playoffs. When your defense doesn't have it, or when the opponent's offense has your number that day, you have to be able to get into a shootout and put up points in a hurry instead of trying to re-establish the run to set up the pass while you're down multiple scores. ***moved post; didn't see someone started a topic on this same exact thing. This is exactly right. In todays NFL, almost any defense can be scored upon with the right game plan. The rules are just too favorable for the offense. The one thing that is very difficult to negate is a fierce pass rush, which ironically we have nothing even close to that. As much as I hate Belicheck, you have to give him credit for being known as one of the great defensive minds of all time, but making the move to an offensive football team given the rules. And, he pretty much did it as soon as the league setup the rules because of what his defense was doing to the Colts. I know he has not won a SB with this model yet, but he was a few miracles going against him away from winning 2 more with this strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 This is all true. And utterly lost on Wrecks Ryan. Screw ruels changes it will always be 1975 with the Ryans, winning 13-10 with their 4-6 defense.Truth is there are enough bad teams that you can win 9-10 games with a bit of luck doing that but you won't win anything in the postseason. Wrecks is the beeper salesman in an iphone world. You can, but it's really really really hard. That type of team is going to be playing on wild-card weekend (and probably on the road at that). You need to hold top-10 (if not top-5 or top-3) offenses to under 20 points 3x in a row just to get to the superbowl (and then do it again to win it). With a QB like Sanchez and an ancient offensive philosophy, it still may not be enough unless you can run at will, on the road, in 4 consecutive playoff games. That's a pretty tall order even for a team with a great ground attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 You can, but it's really really really hard. That type of team is going to be playing on wild-card weekend (and probably on the road at that). You need to hold top-10 (if not top-5 or top-3) offenses to under 20 points 3x in a row just to get to the superbowl (and then do it again to win it). With a QB like Sanchez and an ancient offensive philosophy, it still may not be enough unless you can run at will, on the road, in 4 consecutive playoff games. That's a pretty tall order even for a team with a great ground attack. This is exactly what we saw in 09 and 10. For as bad as Sanchez was the past two years, we did not get bad QB play in the playoffs. I am not going to argue it was great, it was not, but it was not bad. The problem is eventually this strategy just cannot work. In 09 everything lined up perfectly, we got a gift going against a bengal team that was so beat up, and playing so bad, followed by a great matchup against SD. We could not hang with the Colts. Same thing in 10, our defense got smoked by the Steelers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Same thing in 10, our defense got smoked by the Steelers. going back to 2010 that team was emotionally spent the week prior at NE. that happens when mediocre teams overachieve and beat their nemesis. NE game was their Super Bowl. To go on the road and face the Steelers in that building was a tough task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 going back to 2010 that team was emotionally spent the week prior at NE. that happens when mediocre teams overachieve and beat their nemesis. NE game was their Super Bowl. To go on the road and face the Steelers in that building was a tough task. Your making my point, thanks. Winning 4 games Rex Ryan style is nearly impossible, that is what we will have to do to win a SB with Rex Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 This is exactly what we saw in 09 and 10. For as bad as Sanchez was the past two years, we did not get bad QB play in the playoffs. I am not going to argue it was great, it was not, but it was not bad. The problem is eventually this strategy just cannot work. In 09 everything lined up perfectly, we got a gift going against a bengal team that was so beat up, and playing so bad, followed by a great matchup against SD. We could not hang with the Colts. Same thing in 10, our defense got smoked by the Steelers. The defense played badly on basically 2 or 3 drives. Some of that was fueled by the ineptitude of the offense leaving the field as quickly as they took it. But for the game, it didn't get "smoked" by the Steelers. The games this past weekend, where the losing team gave up 30-45 points, those defenses got smoked. Our defense gave up 17 and scored 2. A net of a whopping 15 points for the offense to overcome. The offense had to be able to put up a net of 16 points. You can't score 17, give up 7 the other way, and then blame the defense. Against the Colts it was different. It was a painful 2nd half to watch while Garcon and Gonzalez had their way with not-Revis while Sheppard was uselessly on the sideline. Meanwhile the offense didn't put up so much as a single FG in the 2nd half. Actually it was close to the Pittsburgh game in reverse. Did Indy sit back and watch us put up 17 points in the first half, give up another 7 while their offense was on the field, and then go home losers while blaming the defense? No. Instead of giving us a fumble return TD they put up a quick 7 to close out the first half and then scored another 17 points in the 2nd half and put up points while their defense got its act together. But at that nearly identical point in both games they were 17-3 (us losing to Pittsburgh) and 17-6 (us being Indy). What happened after that is the difference between a team with a QB who can score almost at will - even one famous for choking - and a team without one who needs all the stars to align properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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