784 replies to this topic

[pedro55]

Yes, and the Pats once went 11-5 without Brady. That does't mean the first thing they should have done is trade Brady to make room for his cheaper replacement. The truth is that Sanchez was not a good QB and the team went 6-10. If Sanchez was a legit QB then this cap issue is even less real than it already is, Revis fits perfectly into the plans, and the Jets have themselves stars on both sides of the ball.

What's making it alot harder to have good players is that they have not drafted enough of them. That is not connected to Revis. You put him on the market and any team with any interest in winning will be looking to acquire him. Trading Revis doesn't suddenly improve the Jets, and the chances of it gradually improving the Jets are overstated/overrated at best. Great franchises keep their great players, period. Having Revis does not halt the search for a QB. The Jets are certainly not going to run into one on the FA market that will break the bank and force Revis out. The next QB will be through the draft, and being a draft pick will be cheap through the meat of Revis' next deal.

The Jets have a talent issue. A depth issue. Paying Harris 14 Mil per year, Cromartie around that amount and Revis 16 mil per yer limits the Jets ability to sign, draft, pay players at other key positions. Thats the problem. A CB is not worth being the highest paid player on your team. Not even close.

The reality is was the Jets defense that far worse this year without Revis? No.

[pedro55]

They're also in the Super Bowl without these great QBs I keep having parroted to me as the one and only way to win in this league. The Giants don't have a Revis, but they do spend more than anyone else on defense including almost 30 million in total on their DBs. Rolle, a safety, made 9 million last year. It's not going to get cheaper for high quality talent, but it will remain just as hard to find. The Packers have the best QB in the league, the Steelers won a Super Bowl with a rookie QB just playing competent ball, and the Jets have actually beat the Steelers before (with Revis).

Meanwhile the great QBs that are Manning and Brady fell to Joe Flacco. The Colin Kapernick QB'd 49ers took down Aaron Rodgers. A 5'10" rookie took the Seahawks to the playoffs with smart, efficient, athletic ball rather than a giant check and tons of cap room. Smart, progressive franchises aren't sitting on their hands crying about how their great players aren't QB so all hope is lost. It's a loser mentality.

The 49ers and Ravens are horrible examples in this anyway. The best players on either offenses are a TE (Davis) and a RB (Rice).



So you don't need a great QB, you need great QB performance. This board has told me for half a decade+ can mostly be manufactured through design, plans, and calls. They went out and hired a guy who's upped the completion% and general production of multiple QBs, and comes from arguably the greatest QB coaching tree in the history of the league. GMs and front offices can't sit back and cry about their lack of QB, and some are starting to be proactive about it.

Russel Wilson was one of the top QBs in the NFL this season. Even as a rookie.
Kapernick had one of the greatest playoff games in a long time. Is he a done deal? No, but the kid can play and he can become a great QB.
Just because he's young doesn't mean he isn't good.
And Joe Flacco? Come on now. The guy just had a postseason where he had 8 TDs and 0 INTs. He might not be a HOF QB but thats a HOF like postseason so far. And he's been to 3 AFC CHampionship games, and has never missed the playoffs. He was a missed catch from being in the super bowl last year. Flacco might never put up Manning numbers, but come on.

Tom Brady is a HOF QB and what did he really do his first few years? He wasn't all that impressive either.
At the end of the day would the Ravens pay Flacco 20 Million or Revis 20 Million? Considering they are one win from being super bowl champs, and considering they'll wind up paying Flacco what he wants, answers that question.

The Broncos paid Manning 18 Million. Who would they rather have next season, Revis or Manning?
Thats the thing about these big deals. Most teams can't afford to pay more than one player 16-20 mil per year. If the Jets lock down Revis for the next 5+ years at $16+ million per year, they are hogtied to paying him and not many others.

Edited by pedro55, 30 January 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[pedro55]

They're also in the Super Bowl without these great QBs I keep having parroted to me as the one and only way to win in this league. The Giants don't have a Revis, but they do spend more than anyone else on defense including almost 30 million in total on their DBs. Rolle, a safety, made 9 million last year. It's not going to get cheaper for high quality talent, but it will remain just as hard to find. The Packers have the best QB in the league, the Steelers won a Super Bowl with a rookie QB just playing competent ball, and the Jets have actually beat the Steelers before (with Revis).

Meanwhile the great QBs that are Manning and Brady fell to Joe Flacco. The Colin Kapernick QB'd 49ers took down Aaron Rodgers. A 5'10" rookie took the Seahawks to the playoffs with smart, efficient, athletic ball rather than a giant check and tons of cap room. Smart, progressive franchises aren't sitting on their hands crying about how their great players aren't QB so all hope is lost. It's a loser mentality.

The 49ers and Ravens are horrible examples in this anyway. The best players on either offenses are a TE (Davis) and a RB (Rice).



So you don't need a great QB, you need great QB performance. This board has told me for half a decade+ can mostly be manufactured through design, plans, and calls. They went out and hired a guy who's upped the completion% and general production of multiple QBs, and comes from arguably the greatest QB coaching tree in the history of the league. GMs and front offices can't sit back and cry about their lack of QB, and some are starting to be proactive about it.

Who really says that? Since the 1980's, how many non great QBs have actually won or even gotten to super bowls?
Montana ruled the 80's. Elway ruled the 80's. Jim Kelly dominated the early 90s. Aikman and that vaunted Cowboys team won in the 90s. Elway won again. Favre won. Kurt Warner won. Tom Brady. Peyton Manning. Drew Brees. Big Ben. Aaron Rodgers. Eli Manning.

And Joe Flacco didn't just have a great game, he's had one of the most dominating playoff performances. 8 TDs, 0 INts. And over the past 3 years, He's thrown 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Think about that. 3 post seasons. like 9 games. 15 TDs and 2 INTs. YOu can say all you want about Flacco, but for 3 seasons now, the guy has been one of the best, if not best QBs in the post season. He played better than Brady last year. He did it again this year. Is he a Peyton Manning kind of QB? No. But Manning isn't exactly one of those guys who shows up in the playoffs either.

Not giving Flacco any credit is the first issue. Again, 15 TDs and 2 INts over 3 postseasons, is impressive. So its not about one or two great games. It's about actually being a good enough QB to be dominate in the playoffs.

[SenorGato]

The Jets have a talent issue. A depth issue. Paying Harris 14 Mil per year, Cromartie around that amount and Revis 16 mil per yer limits the Jets ability to sign, draft, pay players at other key positions. Thats the problem. A CB is not worth being the highest paid player on your team. Not even close.

The reality is was the Jets defense that far worse this year without Revis? No.

Harris can be cut before 2014 for a 5 million dollar savings. Cromartie's contract is up within two years. You keep saying Future Revis Salary is going to cripple the franchise without paying attention to these details.

If the CB is by far the best player on the team and one of the best players in the league at any position, yes he is. If that is the price of talent, and it's heading that way, then yes he most certainly is worth it.

The reality is would the Jets' D be that much better with Revis? 100% the answer is yes.

[SenorGato]

Who really says that? Since the 1980's, how many non great QBs have actually won or even gotten to super bowls?

I can name two just this year.

[pedro55]

I can name two just this year.

Again, discounting the fact Flacco has 15 TDs and 2 INTs over the past 3 seasons, kind of disputes your entire argument. You just can't give Flacco any credit. He might not be Brady or Manning. But he's been the best postseason QB over the past few seasons. And the Ravens are in large part in the Super Bowl because Flacco had 8 TD passes and 0 INTs this year. Discount him all you want, he's been a great QB over the past 3 years when it matters. Kind of like Eli Manning.

[SenorGato]

Not giving Flacco any credit is the first issue. Again, 15 TDs and 2 INts over 3 postseasons, is impressive. So its not about one or two great games. It's about actually being a good enough QB to be dominate in the playoffs.

Sanchez put up 61%, 9 TDs, and 3 INTs in his two postseasons.

What should I conclude? That he's not a Peyton Manning type but he can step up?

Again, you're not talking a great QB, you are talking about getting great QB PLAY. You need one more than you need the other in the moment of a game. If you can volunteer yourself to understand that subtle difference, then I might be making some progress.

[Sperm Edwards]

there were 2 CBs in the top 10 last year, there was a top 5 CB the year before... to say CB doesn't rate is not true, it's a premium position. Dee Milliner is likely top 5 this year. It's not like guards, nose tackles and punters. Teams make CB's their first round picks all the time and every team in the league (even the Jets) needs top CB talent.

When was the last time a supposedly great CB prospect was taken #1 or #2 in the draft? Never. It's never happened even once.

No one would draft a CB with the #1 (or #2) pick. It's always a QB or a LT or a pass rusher. And it's almost always a QB. Why? One of the main reasons, particularly from the late 1990s up to the new CBA, is a team's going to pay that rookie $10-12M/year. You do that for a (hopeful) franchise player and every GM has spoken with their draft picks that there is no such thing as a franchise CB.

When was the last time a supposedly great CB prospect was taken #3 in the draft? 1997. Before that? Never. It's happened once in NFL history.

Since free agency reached the NFL (1992), there have been over 100 top-5 picks. Here are all the CBs ever drafted in the top 5:

#3 overall pick = 1997 Springs
#4 overall pick = 1998 Woodson
#5 overall pick = 1992 Buckley, 1998 Westbrook, 2002 Jammer, 2003 Newman

When the time comes to ante up, no GM past or present has ever been willing to take a CB in the top 2. One taken at #3. One taken at #4. That's all-time since the NFL merger.

Since '92 when teams knew a player could be lost in free agency, there have been 4 CBs taken in the top 5. Why? Because they know that they won't match if his demands are too high. For a QB? If he's your guy you keep him no matter how much he demands. That's why you invest a very-top pick on a QB and not on a CB. It's not because there haven't been any great CBs come out. Even in years when the top QBs are kind of mediocre prospects no one would do that.


If Revis can be locked up for a reasonable CB contract - reasonable even for a great CB - then do it. Otherwise ship him out and get a #1 and a #2 (or whatever it is) because we're losing him for nothing at the end of the upcoming lost season anyway.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Bump. This thread cannot be allowed to go off Page 1.

[JiF]

it was better than 2012. that's what I'm saying. Talent = wins.

And you think Revis was the reason for those 2 extra wins? lulz

[bitonti]

And you think Revis was the reason for those 2 extra wins? lulz

can't tell if sarcastic or didn't see all of his game winning interceptions.

[peebag]

How's Revis' rehab coming along? Anyone heard?

[CrazyCarl40]

How's Revis' rehab coming along? Anyone heard?

I think pretty well. He sprayed some deer antlers on his knee and it grew a mouth and asked for 20 million a year.

[JetsFanInDenver]

I think pretty well. He sprayed some deer antlers on his knee and it grew a mouth and asked for 20 million a year.

Those deer antlers must be rank amateurs. It's well know you let the agent do the talking about your ridiculous demands!

[SenorGato]

So hows about Revis to the 49ers? Their secondary was exposed a little IMO, and could use a premium talent.

[unbanmadmike1]

So hows about Revis to the 49ers? Their secondary was exposed a little IMO, and could use a premium talent.

Sure, but NOT for Alex Smith.

[SenorGato]

Sure, but NOT for Alex Smith.

There goes yet another hope and dream.

[pointman]

So hows about Revis to the 49ers? Their secondary was exposed a little IMO, and could use a premium talent.

Willis and Bowman for Revis? Sounds fair.

[unbanmadmike1]

Willis and Bowman for Revis? Sounds fair.

How about Anthony Davis and next year's 1?

[JetsFanInDenver]

The one thing that became clear to the likes of Broncos, Colts and the 49ers if they have to move to the next level they have to get some DB support. I think yesterday's game gave the JETS a little more leverage!