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Guest Message by DevFuse

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DE Quinton Coples, WR Stephen Hill & LB DeMario Davis ~ ~ ~


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48 replies to this topic

#1 kelly

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:45 PM

~ ~ Key picks : DE Quinton Coples, WR Stephen Hill, LB DeMario Davis

Kiper’s grade : C

Thoughts :
I wrote in April after the draft that New York was swinging for the fences with hit-or-miss picks in the first two rounds. Coples and Hill had various questions about maturity and being NFL ready. Coples sat out his final year of college via suspension and Hill played receiver in a run-heavy offense. Both players struggled at various times their rookie years. Coples started two games and had 30 tackles and 5.5 sacks, but he came on at the end of the season. Hill’s rookie campaign never got off the ground and he finished with 21 catches for 252 yards. The Jets hope this rookie class can eventually blossom.

rest of above article :
> http://espn.go.com/b...-the-2012-draft
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#2 stoicsentry

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:50 PM

Quinton Coples was suspended for his final year of college?

Um........ no.

Edited by stoicsentry, 24 January 2013 - 05:50 PM.

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#3 JetsFanInDenver

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:00 PM

Hey we traded our 4th pick away to get Tebow. That counts for nothing ?

Edited by JetsFanInDenver, 24 January 2013 - 06:07 PM.

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#4 HessStation

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:01 PM

Coples had a very solid rookie campaign. I truly think Davis will emerge not only as a force but as a team leader in 2013. Ask Devito who the biggest leaders were in 2012 and he'll start by naming Davis...and that's only as a bench/st guy.

Hill is a different story. His hands could become a major liability that will plague him throughout his career. But if he can fix that, a very big if, he's already shown the ability to do everything else at the pro level. So there's that.
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#5 Matt39

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:16 PM

he's already shown the ability to do everything else at the pro level. So there's that.


He was useless against press coverage last year.
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#6 BroadwayJoe12

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:27 PM

He was useless against press coverage last year.


Hands and the technique to beat press-coverage are all things that are extremely teachable, especially the latter due to his natural size and strength. Most receivers do not perform well against press coverage; just look at how the ravens receivers did absolutely nothing until the second half and that's even with Boldin being a physical freak. The best thing Hill has going for him is that A) the two things he needs the most work on are two of the easiest to correct and B.) he seemingly has a very good work-ethic and desire to improve, which is the only way you fix problems as a player. There's not much separating these guys in the NFL or pro sports in general as far as physical gifts, it's their work-ethic that sets them apart; it's why I'd bet you'll see Hill flourish in the next few years and guys like Titus Young bounce around from roster to roster. At least I hope.

Edited by BroadwayJoe12, 24 January 2013 - 06:27 PM.

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#7 flgreen

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:57 PM

Hands and the technique to beat press-coverage are all things that are extremely teachable, especially the latter due to his natural size and strength. Most receivers do not perform well against press coverage; just look at how the ravens receivers did absolutely nothing until the second half and that's even with Boldin being a physical freak. The best thing Hill has going for him is that A) the two things he needs the most work on are two of the easiest to correct and B.) he seemingly has a very good work-ethic and desire to improve, which is the only way you fix problems as a player. There's not much separating these guys in the NFL or pro sports in general as far as physical gifts, it's their work-ethic that sets them apart; it's why I'd bet you'll see Hill flourish in the next few years and guys like Titus Young bounce around from roster to roster. At least I hope.

Have to agree with all of this.

There were a few articles about Sanchez going out to TEST West, and working out with Jeff Garcia. Which I think is a great idea.

If Hill were smart he’d go also. Two weeks of intense, one on one training, on how to use his hands, could be just what he needs
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#8 Bergen Jet

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 04:33 AM

You cannot teach the size and speed that Hill has. He was definitely worth the gamble and can potentially be a steal if he can work out a few minor issues plus improve his ability to hold on to the ball.
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#9 Smashmouth

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:26 AM

He was useless against press coverage last year.


yeah but hes big and strong so he could easily overcome that weakness with the right coaching.
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#10 #27TheDominator

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:05 AM

You cannot teach the size and speed that Hill has. He was definitely worth the gamble and can potentially be a steal if he can work out a few minor issues plus improve his ability to hold on to the ball.


He was defnitely worth a gamble. I'm not so sure about that one. The Jets traded a 5th and a 7th to move up 4 spots with Hill, Jeffrey and Randle still on the board. It probably wasn't such a big risk to wait 4 slots and see if he was still there. Especially if Rex was really against it. I know Chicago moved up to take Jeffery, so maybe they had to be scared he wouldn't be there. I'm okay with the pick, but not so sure about the trade.

yeah but hes big and strong so he could easily overcome that weakness with the right coaching.


It's not that easy or he would have done it already.
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#11 Stonehands

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:11 AM

Right school, wrong guy....Coples was not suspended his final year. He is confusing him with Marvin Austin who was suspended. Coples was caught up in it, but was able to prove he paid for his own trip and was reinstated before the season and played the entire year.
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#12 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:33 AM

He was defnitely worth a gamble. I'm not so sure about that one. The Jets traded a 5th and a 7th to move up 4 spots with Hill, Jeffrey and Randle still on the board. It probably wasn't such a big risk to wait 4 slots and see if he was still there. Especially if Rex was really against it. I know Chicago moved up to take Jeffery, so maybe they had to be scared he wouldn't be there. I'm okay with the pick, but not so sure about the trade.



It's not that easy or he would have done it already.


exactly. Great hands are a natural talent. Great route running is a natural talent. Being big and fast is nice, but there are a ton of big fast guys that can't play WR in the NFL. Wes Welker is better than Johnny Lam Jones ever was. And Welker is slower and smaller. Talent is talent. Which is why measurables are so misleading.

Edited by sirlancemehlot, 25 January 2013 - 09:37 AM.

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#13 #27TheDominator

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:50 AM

exactly. Great hands are a natural talent. Great route running is a natural talent. Being big and fast is nice, but there are a ton of big fast guys that can't play WR in the NFL. Wes Welker is better than Johnny Lam Jones ever was. And Welker is slower and smaller. Talent is talent. Which is why measurables are so misleading.


It's not easy, but it's not impossible. In fact, I think I could teach him plenty myself. I don't think he is going to just learn what he needs from catching balls from a Jugs gun. I have seen him make some tough catches in traffic- and those were usually the kind where he could get both hands on the ball and catch it textbook style. I think he needs to work on some of the other crazy drills to learn to adjust to the ball when he's running.- some of the things we've tried are forcing ourselves to catch the ball with one hand and then the other, the one that I think Shockey used to do where you have your back to the QB then spin and have to locate and catch the ball. Stuff like that. The trouble is that different things can help different players. A lot of it will also come from confidence.
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#14 slats

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:04 AM

exactly. Great hands are a natural talent. Great route running is a natural talent. Being big and fast is nice, but there are a ton of big fast guys that can't play WR in the NFL. Wes Welker is better than Johnny Lam Jones ever was. And Welker is slower and smaller. Talent is talent. Which is why measurables are so misleading.


Size and speed are natural talents, catching and running precise routes can be taught. A rookie who caught 29 passes in college struggled in his first year with Mark Sanchez at QB? Really? Despite how shocking that is, I think it's probably a little early to write the kid off.
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#15 Maxman

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:19 AM

Coples had a very solid rookie campaign. I truly think Davis will emerge not only as a force but as a team leader in 2013. Ask Devito who the biggest leaders were in 2012 and he'll start by naming Davis...and that's only as a bench/st guy.

Hill is a different story. His hands could become a major liability that will plague him throughout his career. But if he can fix that, a very big if, he's already shown the ability to do everything else at the pro level. So there's that.


Coples was solid and he came on strong as the year went on. Davis....I wanted to see more of him. He is a HUGE KEY next season. They need him to start.

Hill? The game plan needs to be for him to be the 4th WR at the beginning of next year. Counting on him to start is what 6 win teams look back on and regret.
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#16 Maxman

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:21 AM

Size and speed are natural talents, catching and running precise routes can be taught. A rookie who caught 29 passes in college struggled in his first year with Mark Sanchez at QB? Really? Despite how shocking that is, I think it's probably a little early to write the kid off.


I definitely wouldn't write him off. That drop against the Pats truly changed the season around. Think about that, if he catches that ball the Jets would have won that game, scary thought.
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#17 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:23 AM

Size and speed are natural talents, catching and running precise routes can be taught. A rookie who caught 29 passes in college struggled in his first year with Mark Sanchez at QB? Really? Despite how shocking that is, I think it's probably a little early to write the kid off.


Who's writing anyone off? This thread is about the draft class of 2012. I think Coples will be very good. I think Davis will be serviceable as a player and a positive locker room presence. As far as Hill, The Jets did what they typically do...fell in love with his combine results. Blame Sanchez for being a sub-par QB--but Hill DROPPED some huge passes. And he couldn't separate at all. He even lost the NE game by dropping a sure TD. This happened. It's real history, on videotape. Can he be taught to do things better? Yes. But soft hands are something you have or you don't. If you've played PeeWee, Juniors, High School and College, and you're having trouble catching the ball...guess what? You probably don't have great hands.
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#18 slats

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:26 AM

Hill? The game plan needs to be for him to be the 4th WR at the beginning of next year. Counting on him to start is what 6 win teams look back on and regret.


I hope they retain Braylon for a reasonable contract. The guy wants to play here, and seems to be at his best when he does. Holmes is here another year, and Kerley is solid. Hill isn't a bad #4 in that group.
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#19 Maxman

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:27 AM

I hope they retain Braylon for a reasonable contract. The guy wants to play here, and seems to be at his best when he does. Holmes is here another year, and Kerley is solid. Hill isn't a bad #4 in that group.


Braylon seems different here. He plays harder. Since he won't require a big contract, he should definitely be back...
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#20 T0mShane

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:32 AM

Re: Hill

On the one hand, you see how average Larry Fitzgerald looked with a bad QB.

On the other hand, WR is an enormously instinctive position and Hill has literally never shown any capacity to produce at it.
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#21 Freemanm

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:44 AM

It's not easy, but it's not impossible. In fact, I think I could teach him plenty myself. I don't think he is going to just learn what he needs from catching balls from a Jugs gun. I have seen him make some tough catches in traffic- and those were usually the kind where he could get both hands on the ball and catch it textbook style. I think he needs to work on some of the other crazy drills to learn to adjust to the ball when he's running.- some of the things we've tried are forcing ourselves to catch the ball with one hand and then the other, the one that I think Shockey used to do where you have your back to the QB then spin and have to locate and catch the ball. Stuff like that. The trouble is that different things can help different players. A lot of it will also come from confidence.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Hill needs a QB who can actually throw him the ball when he's not being triple covered.
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#22 Greenseed4

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:56 AM

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Hill needs a QB who can actually throw him the ball when he's not being triple covered.


I was going to post something to this effect, sans the triple coverage comment.

Hill would benefit from a strong armed QB who throws tight spirals in catch-able places.
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#23 #27TheDominator

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:02 AM

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Hill needs a QB who can actually throw him the ball when he's not being triple covered.

I was going to post something to this effect, sans the triple coverage comment.

Hill would benefit from a strong armed QB who throws tight spirals in catch-able places.


Relevance?

Nobody is denying that HIll could be more productive with a better QB, but I don't see how anybody with eyes can think that he doesn't have work to do. Hill is far from a finished product. No matter who the QB is, HIll can and should be better than he was in 2012.

Edited by #27TheDominator, 25 January 2013 - 11:16 AM.

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#24 Greenseed4

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:17 AM

Relevance?

Nobody is denying that HIll could be more productive with a better QB, but I don't see how anybody with eyes can think that he has work to do. Hill is far from a finished product. No matter who the QB is, HIll can and should be better than he was in 2012.


You're right. We can probably file this right between "duh" and "derr"... yet it hasn't been said.

Some guys need a stronger thrown ball to catch better, it helps them "pluck" rather than "scoop", and a lot of the drops I saw with Hill this year were alligator arm drops. He can practice on the jugs machine all week, but if his QB can't throw a spiral with velocity then all of his practice is for naught.
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#25 Il Mostro

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:24 AM

Not that he needs to be a rocket scientist, but it wouldn't hurt if Hill had a brain. In every interview I've seen he comes across as a clueless dolt. I am not sure if he has the mental capacity to improve his hands and routes, let alone be consistent.
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