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O-Line dept. : we're 3rd ~ ~ ~


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35 replies to this topic

#1 kelly

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:43 PM

Surprise : O-line ranks third in NFL

Even the most devout Jets fan might find this hard to believe, but the Jets fielded one of the premier offensive lines in 2012, according to the stats-based website ProFootballFocus.com.According to PFF, the Jets' line finished third out of 32 teams in its statistical analysis, behind only the 49ers and Patriots. The Jets ranked seventh in pass blocking, third in run blocking and third in penalties, per PFF.Somewhere, Dave DeGuglielmo is smiling. Well, maybe not smiling, but muttering under his breath, "I told you so." The offensive-line coach, who made his utter disdain for the media quite clear in his three (count 'em, three) group interviews over the course of the season, was sensitive to the criticism heaped upon his unit. Ironically, he railed against stats-based websites for having no clue as to how to grade linemen.

Well, now one of those websites is patting him on the back, basically exonerating the line for the offense's problems. DeGuglielmo's reaction? Don't know; we'll have to wait for the next hurricane. (Inside joke.) The kicker here is that his job is hanging by a thread, with a chance he might not be retained.

Anyhoo, here's PFF's analysis of the Jets' line :

Stud : There were plenty of contenders here, but given some of the guys he kept in check, credit to D'Brickashaw Ferguson (+23.5) for a fine year.

Dud : The run blocking of Matt Slauson (+2.5) left a lot to be desired.

Summary : Everybody wants to poke fun at the Jets, and for some reason the offensive line got caught in the crossfire. It wasn't quite its dominant self in the early weeks of the season, but they finishing playing as well as any team. Nick Mangold and Brandon Moore played angry, while Austin Howard found his feet as an NFL tackle. Still, a line can only do so much to put skill players in position to do good things, and in that regard the Jets are sorely lacking.


> http://espn.go.com/b...ks-third-in-nfl
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#2 SenorGato

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:48 PM

Still want a new G talent.
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#3 bitonti

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

told ya

several posters have asked for an Austin Howard upgrade. Besides the fact that he's the only RFA starter on the roster (cheap), he already knows Marty Morn's plays from his time with the Eagles. Not going anywhere.

Edited by bitonti, 28 January 2013 - 03:52 PM.

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#4 slats

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

Still, a line can only do so much to put skill players in position to do good things, and in that regard the Jets are sorely lacking.


Been saying this all year. The line does its job. Shonn Greene wishes he was as good as Adrian Murrell, and Mark Sanchez crumbles at the word pressure.
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#5 unbanmadmike1

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

No surprise here. The people making excuses for Sanchez or the 2 JAG RB's we have on our roster might be surprised though.

Edited by unbanmadmike1, 28 January 2013 - 03:59 PM.

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#6 Matt39

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:00 PM

The 2009 line was absurdly good.

Our line is fine we just have a bunch of crappy backs and a bad QB.
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#7 HessStation

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

told ya

several posters have asked for an Austin Howard upgrade. Besides the fact that he's the only RFA starter on the roster (cheap), he already knows Marty Morn's plays from his time with the Eagles. Not going anywhere.

is this going to mean you think you are right about everything?
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#8 stugotz81

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

Been saying this all year. The line does its job. Shonn Greene wishes he was as good as Adrian Murrell, and Mark Sanchez crumbles at the word pressure.


Boy did i love Adrian Murrell....a solid back who just did the job.
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#9 stugotz81

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

The 2009 line was absurdly good.

Our line is fine we just have a bunch of crappy backs and a bad QB.


100% agree
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#10 faba

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

Yeah never believe most stats- you can make them work to justify any position. This ol was not the third best in the league
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#11 bitonti

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:14 PM

is this going to mean you think you are right about everything?


ha ha no i am wrong about most things. Sun shines on a dogs ass tho

side note I understand why people think the OL sucks. Matt in post 6 nails it. Compared to the 2009 all time great line, they are not nearly as good.

but compared to the lines that exist in the NFL in 2012, they are damn good.
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#12 jack48

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:18 PM

I didn't think our offensive line was all that bad this year. We just had a crap offense with crap plays and a crap QB. Hard for an OL to look great with albatrosses like that hanging around their neck.
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#13 jorge o8

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:27 PM

i like our line but the guards need some help,K Long this kid is going to be a great OG or OT
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#14 FloridaJetsFan

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

If the line didn't suck, they sure were not coordinated with the guy throwing the ball, seeings how he nearly led the league in sacks.
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#15 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:52 AM

Stats and measurables mean nothing when it comes to Oline. I happen to coach Oline and I can tell you this...it operates as a unit. Grade RB or WR or DE by stats. That's a bit closer to being a fair representation. But a line depends on the TE and the RBs to assist in blocking schemes. Also, how do you rate how good a guy is at pulling if he's too slow to pull and thus is forced to block the head-up defender all the time. How do you rate a player on traps when a trap depends on at least three lineman and a QB/RB exchange to mesh in perfect timing? How do you guage how good a guard is if he's constantly posting the nose or chipping the DT before heading to the 'backer? How do you guage how a guy picks up 'backers on th move if his feet are not coordinated enough to get there so he just blocks backside pursuit? How can you call a player a good lineman when he has so many different responsibilities on a rotating basis depending on defensive formation, that you don't even know if he's doing the job he's supposed to be doing? how about combo blocks in a zone scheme. Sliding on a stretch play? Cut-blocks on slants and screens? Not every guy can do these things or at least ALL of these things, so how do you guage a lineman by stats? You don't. If you could, scouts would look at sacks given up and yardage gained on inside runs and get the guy with the best numbers. Of course that would be as ridiculous and nonsensical as the Jets #3 ranking.
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#16 #27TheDominator

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:58 AM

How did they grade Ducasse? That is what I want to know. We may be starting him next year. He played this year and didn't seem bad, but it seems like he suits Sparano's "system" better than Mornhenwig's.
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#17 bitonti

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:37 AM

Stats and measurables mean nothing when it comes to Oline. I happen to coach Oline and I can tell you this...it operates as a unit. Grade RB or WR or DE by stats. That's a bit closer to being a fair representation. But a line depends on the TE and the RBs to assist in blocking schemes. Also, how do you rate how good a guy is at pulling if he's too slow to pull and thus is forced to block the head-up defender all the time. How do you rate a player on traps when a trap depends on at least three lineman and a QB/RB exchange to mesh in perfect timing? How do you guage how good a guard is if he's constantly posting the nose or chipping the DT before heading to the 'backer? How do you guage how a guy picks up 'backers on th move if his feet are not coordinated enough to get there so he just blocks backside pursuit? How can you call a player a good lineman when he has so many different responsibilities on a rotating basis depending on defensive formation, that you don't even know if he's doing the job he's supposed to be doing? how about combo blocks in a zone scheme. Sliding on a stretch play? Cut-blocks on slants and screens? Not every guy can do these things or at least ALL of these things, so how do you guage a lineman by stats? You don't. If you could, scouts would look at sacks given up and yardage gained on inside runs and get the guy with the best numbers. Of course that would be as ridiculous and nonsensical as the Jets #3 ranking.


agree that the PFF ranking of OL is not perfect. WIthout the play call there's no way of knowing who is supposed to block whom.

But if you look at the players themselves... how many LT are better than Brick. How many C are better than Mangold? The Jets have 2 perennial pro bowlers out of 5. they were rotating 7 deep with Smith and Vlad. Maybe they aren't 3rd, maybe they are 6th. But they aren't 32nd like many fans believe. Not even close. Other lines were decimated by injury, compared to the Eagles, Chargers etc the Jets OL are awesome.
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#18 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

agree that the PFF ranking of OL is not perfect. WIthout the play call there's no way of knowing who is supposed to block whom.

But if you look at the players themselves... how many LT are better than Brick. How many C are better than Mangold? The Jets have 2 perennial pro bowlers out of 5. they were rotating 7 deep with Smith and Vlad. Maybe they aren't 3rd, maybe they are 6th. But they aren't 32nd like many fans believe. Not even close. Other lines were decimated by injury, compared to the Eagles, Chargers etc the Jets OL are awesome.


Fair enough. They are neither a top line, nor a trash heap line. I can live with that. What annoys me is when everyone comes out saying the line is the "least of our worries" because they dont want to draft OL (its not sexy enough) or trade for it. A dominant line is the backbone of any offense. I would love to see one of our top two picks spent there. But we as Jets fans have gotten used to shopping for our groceries in the candy aisle. Let's face it, Faneca did far more for this team than Brett Favre ever did. Damien Woody, Mangold, D'Brick...they were far more valuable aquisitions than Holmes, Plaxico or Mason. Yet we've ignored OL the last three years. Ducasse and Robert Griffin notwithstanding.
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#19 bitonti

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

I would love to see one of our top two picks spent there.


i love the offensive line as a position and personally would be very happy if the Jets took a great OL like Chance Warmack. But drafting a guard doesn't solve any problems on this team. Taking the OL from good to great is nice but it ignores greater issues. Like the league's worst offensive skill positions.

to borrow a line of logic from other threads, what did the 2009 line win? eventually they need to be more explosive and put up more points. Not ground and pound it harder.

Edited by bitonti, 29 January 2013 - 01:42 PM.

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#20 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:58 PM

i love the offensive line as a position and personally would be very happy if the Jets took a great OL like Chance Warmack. But drafting a guard doesn't solve any problems on this team. Taking the OL from good to great is nice but it ignores greater issues. Like the league's worst offensive skill positions.

to borrow a line of logic from other threads, what did the 2009 line win? eventually they need to be more explosive and put up more points. Not ground and pound it harder.


There a false equivalent to that thinking, though. What would the 2009 team have done with a less dominant Oline? And a great Oline is not necessarily a Ground and Pound line. The WCO depends on athletic lineman to block downfield, pull in both directions and block on the move. Denver has had one of the smallest Olines over the past decade and a half traditionally, yet they were also one of the most effective. The idea that all good lineman are straight-ahead road graders used to plow through defenses is outdated and inaccurate.
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#21 bitonti

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

Denver has had one of the smallest Olines over the past decade and a half traditionally, yet they were also one of the most effective.


i agree but except for LT the Denver OL (and most OL in the league) has mid rounders as starters. Do the Jets really need to use another 1st or 2nd rounder on the team's strength? This would be like drafting another 3-4 DE it's the least of their problems.
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#22 kelly

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 02:48 PM

The 2009 line was absurdly good.

Our line is fine we just have a bunch of crappy backs and a bad QB.

very...VERY true :headbang:
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#23 ANTHONY from Yonkers

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 02:58 PM

Funny thing is the Jet o line was always criticized. Perception and reality are 2 different things. They did not have positive reviews for Slauson who was not good against the run at all. Brandon Moore concerns me because he seems very beat up but they graded him very high. As for Austin Howard I thought he played well for a rookie and I think he can improve. The biggest issue is having Mangold and Ferguson play at a probowl level that is what we need. Many times sacks were not on the o line but on our qb... How many times did you scream at the tc when sanchez held on to the ball. I think we said the same thing when mccelroy was sacked 11 times. I believe all this is due to the fact that our receivers could not get any seperation. The offense we ran lets face it was not good. How many easy throws were there for Sanchez with dump off to our backs? Not many.. when we had them he missed allot of them
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#24 #27TheDominator

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:42 PM

Howard wasn't a rookie. He's in his 3rd year. He had a few starts for Philly in 2010 and was a practice squad guy with the Ravens and Jets in 2011. Howard was the quality that everybody thought we were getting with Adrien Clarke. Slauson being poor in the run game is interesting. They will likely be switching at least one guard. Hopefully Ducasse is capable at one spot. The offensive line might not have been the 3rd best in the NFL, but I think this still indicates that they weren't the problem.
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#25 ANTHONY from Yonkers

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:01 PM

My bad your right, but Howard was relatively inexperienced and when the Jets picked him up he was picked off of the practice squad from the Ravens.....I thought that was a great find although he did allow allot of qb hits I forgot the stat but it wasnt good... I think he played well and he is big guy.... I am not sure about Ducasse... they did work him in last year but that was mandated by Mr T apparently... Guggs was not happy...I agree I dont think they were the 3rd best but they are good and maybe switch out Slauson if that is the weakness and they can be even better....The new offense will be very pass heavy.... interested to see who they bring in... Last time we ran a west coast offense was Paul Hackett and that offense with Pennington was explosive...I think Hackett was good but allot of NY press didnt like him..
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