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Great article about positional value in the NFL, and how it pertains to paying Revis from NYJetsCap.com

96 posts in this topic

We all agree that 16 per is an unreasonable number.

the assumption that he will only agree to a contract of 16 per year is I believe a flawed assumption. It's a starting point for negotiation. Part of the reason to put him on the block is to get Revis' agents in front of other teams, to see what the real market is for this player.

It's highly questionable that is what Revis is gonna make, whoever is paying him, especially coming off a year where he missed 13 games with a leg injury.

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my main worry about revis is that CB can simply be avoided. yeah, it helps you roll coverage, but in this mis-match league, they just throw to a TE or RB of you double a WR and put revis on another

or remember the colts and pats* just going 3 WR sets and picking on the nickel ?

the only player worth that much money on defense is an every down front 7 player who can rush the passer and commands double team blocking

it's such a tough pickle for idzik. trading him hurts the cap, letting him walk is a catastrophe, yet revis has never shown he will take anything less than "the most" on a contract

if idzik signs revis to a reasonable extension, he has to be considered a straight up stud GM

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my main worry about revis is that CB can simply be avoided. yeah, it helps you roll coverage, but in this mis-match league, they just throw to a TE or RB of you double a WR and put revis on another

or remember the colts and pats* just going 3 WR sets and picking on the nickel ?

the only player worth that much money on defense is an every down front 7 player who can rush the passer and commands double team blocking

it's such a tough pickle for idzik. trading him hurts the cap, letting him walk is a catastrophe, yet revis has never shown he will take anything less than "the most" on a contract

if idzik signs revis to a reasonable extension, he has to be considered a straight up stud GM

I agree. Revis is a tremendous asset against teams with a franchise-type WR, and little else in the passing game, but not nearly as big a factor against a team like the Pats who spread the ball around. A front seven guy who's getting after the passer every pass play, and who should also be a factor in run support, is a much greater asset. Love Revis, but positionally he only can do so much for your team.

This is why you see franchise OTs falling out of favor, too. Teams just move their best pass rusher away from the great left tackles now. Simple as that.

If you're going to commit $12-$16M/year to a player, it needs to be a player who dictates his influence in a game. Not one who gets dictated to.

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A front seven guy who's getting after the passer every pass play, and who should also be a factor in run support, is a much greater asset.

as is a franchise QB. but wanting to save money for these guys when they aren't on the roster is counting chickens.

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as is a franchise QB. but wanting to save money for these guys when they aren't on the roster is counting chickens.

You have to allocate your resources wisely, regardless of what you currently have. You need to be in position to spend for the more important pieces.

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You have to allocate your resources wisely, regardless of what you currently have. You need to be in position to spend for the more important pieces.

There is a salary cap floor this year for the first time, every team will have to spend 89% of the cap, that's 108 mil roughly.

In other words they are gonna pay someone. It might as well be Revis.

Edited by bitonti
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There is a salary cap floor this year for the first time, every team will have to spend 89% of the cap, that's 108 mil roughly.

In other words they are gonna pay someone. It might as well be Revis.

Jets will have no problem reaching the floor with or without Revis.

And frankly, in 2013, you can take floor to mean the bottom of the salary scale or last place in the division. Both will be easily attainable with or without Revis.

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From the Jets point of view a few things need to be noted. The constant in many of these cases is that the teams stink. The Cardinals are a bad football team and for all of that salary Fitzgerald gave them 798 yards because the QB situation is so bad. Calvin Johnson put up incredible numbers on a team that won 4 games and was force fed the ball to put up those statistics. The Lions won 4 games this year. Chris Johnson was in danger of being cut last season and will likely be cut sometime next week from a 6 win Titans team. The Raiders were a complete joke when Asomugha took up all that cap room. The lone exception is Peterson who deserves the MVP this year and carried a bad Vikings team into the playoffs. Peterson, in my analysis, contributed over 350 yards of offense over an average player. Would Revis do the same?

This is what I've been trying to express in the thread.

And, as you point out, neutralizing the best WR in the league requires nothing more than having a good TE or good WR2. Sure, Revis helps against players like Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald. But, those guys are both on losing teams, so how are teams without Revis still beating them?

Most people can buy a 7-series, it doesn't mean they should, and it does mean they'll have to make big sacrifices in other places in their life, so they're left with a nice car and not much else.

Edited by tEYbow
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Most people can buy a 7-series, it doesn't mean they should, and it does mean they'll have to make big sacrifices in other places in their life, so they're left with a nice car and not much else.

to use this metaphor the choice isn't between a 7 series and a honda. It's between a 7 series and nothing.

The Jets haven't found a QB worth paying big money since 1969 why does everyone believe it's gonna happen next year and the money can't go to Revis cause it's going to this awesome fictional QB? or the awesome pass rusher that also doesn't exist.

a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

Edited by bitonti
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to use this metaphor the choice isn't between a 7 series and a honda. It's between a 7 series and nothing.

So what's the plan? To never have an elite pass rusher or QB?

You don't buy that 7 Series when you're in the market for new house, because if you do, all of a sudden you'll realize you can't afford a mortgage payment anymore when you find the right place. Unless you trade that car in for a cheaper model and a couple draft picks. :)

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to use this metaphor the choice isn't between a 7 series and a honda. It's between a 7 series and nothing.

The Jets haven't found a QB worth paying big money since 1969 why does everyone believe it's gonna happen next year and the money can't go to Revis cause it's going to this awesome fictional QB? or the awesome pass rusher that also doesn't exist.

a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

That is only if you make it a 7-series or nothing. Lets say you don't own a 90K car. Does that mean you don't spend your money on other elements of your life, because you don't have a high end luxury car? Or, do you have an apartment/home, decent to nice car, take vacations, go out to dinners.

WIth the extra money, the Jets could improve the QB position, the LB position, and the team as a whole. They would not be married to a player at one position, a position that can easily be schemed around.

Further, statistically, the Jets defense wasn't really any worse without Revis. You could make the argument, pretty easily, that the loss of Holmes > loss of Revis. So, maybe we don't even have that bird in hand you speculate about. Then again, as you would still have D-Rob and Gholston on this roster (cutting them doesn't make the team better), at least your position of not trying to improve the team in favor of an individual is logically consistent.

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A good fair read.

I still say pay the man unless the offer from someone else is unbelievable. Not enough is being considered about how the Jets won't be paying big money to a QB for a while.

I also this "schemed around" stuff is nonsense..."Schemed around" is the latest in Jets fans' negative spin tech...Another way to put it is "he eliminates a whole side of the field for offenses"...It's actually how most used to put it until it came time to think about paying him.

The answer to the Jets' problems at QB, WR, and OLB is not money. They paid for Holmes. They paid for Edwards. They paid for Sanchez. They paid for Favre. They paid for Pennington. Those positions are not cap issues, they are talent issues. The draft is the route for this stuff. You can't preach draft, draft, draft and coaches control QB production only to turn around and go "no, we need the money for QB and other positions." Trading Revis doesn't make any progress towards fixing those positions, it just potentially makes room to overpay someone else or two to fill one or two of those holes.

Edited by SenorGato
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A good fair read.

I still say pay the man unless the offer from someone else is unbelievable. Not enough is being considered about how the Jets won't be paying big money to a QB for a while.

I also this "schemed around" stuff is nonsense..."Schemed around" is the latest in Jets fans' negative spin tech...Another way to put it is "he eliminates a whole side of the field for offenses"...It's actually how most used to put it until it came time to think about paying him.

He doesn't eliminate the whole side of a field. He eliminates 1 player... a large part of the time.

It's also not a scheme, it's a tradition set where you have more than 1 pass catcher on the field.

Edited by tEYbow
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You don't buy that 7 Series when you're in the market for new house, because if you do, all of a sudden you'll realize you can't afford a mortgage payment anymore when you find the right place. Unless you trade that car in for a cheaper model and a couple draft picks. :)

don't you mean if you find the right place.

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WIth the extra money, the Jets could improve the QB position,

how? by signing matt flynn? drafting Matt Barkley?

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don't you mean if you find the right place.

By this logic, your financial advice would be to buy the most expensive car possible, because you may never find/be able to afford the house you want.

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how? by signing matt flynn? drafting Matt Barkley?

Bringing in Matt Moore improves the QB position, and leaves us with money to invest elsewhere.

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Bringing in Matt Moore improves the QB position, and leaves us with money to invest elsewhere.

that's not exactly Revis type money. What big investments could the Jets make that have as much effect as keeping revis? My point is there is no Drew Brees on the market nor will there ever be a clear cut franchise QB on the market. Draft a QB is cheap. we are concerned about saving money for no reason

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By this logic, your financial advice would be to buy the most expensive car possible, because you may never find/be able to afford the house you want.

these metaphors have gotten really twisted because in these scenarios there are like 5 houses and all of them have families living in them. Is the 7 series the best thing to spend your money on? Yes... given the options. If we play madden football and redraft the league then no. But that's not the situation.

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that's not exactly Revis type money. What big investments could the Jets make that have as much effect as keeping revis? My point is there is no Drew Brees on the market nor will there ever be a clear cut franchise QB on the market. Draft a QB is cheap. we are concerned about saving money for no reason

It's not about next year. It's about the future. As jason's article points out, the teams that over invest in non-QBs are trend badly.

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these metaphors have gotten really twisted because in these scenarios there are like 5 houses and all of them have families living in them. Is the 7 series the best thing to spend your money on? Yes... given the options. If we play madden football and redraft the league then no. But that's not the situation.

No, because it's not about the QB necessarily. You can take the 60 M guaranteed (obviously it wont end up that much, but even 2/3 is insane), you can disperse the money and make the team better as a whole.

Jets D really didn't take a significant step back w/o Revis.

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He doesn't eliminate the whole side of a field. He eliminates 1 player... a large part of the time.

It's also not a scheme, it's a tradition set where you have more than 1 pass catcher on the field.

1. Eliminating an offense's best pass catcher, which he does the vast majority of the time he's out there, is kind of a big deal.

2. He's a factor in what happens on the rest of that half of the field. .

3. Scheme isn't my word so none of that please.

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I can't wait to see the tone of everyone here when the Jets are officially without Revis....and were watching kyle wilson chasing every WR into the endzone.....or even better, watching kyle wilson throw his hands in the air when the WR catches the ball behind him.....i understand the whole cap thing, and if he leaves next year then we get nothing like we could now...cross that bridge when it comes imo....as for next year, i want Revis....he is a difference maker on every single play. make it happen idzik

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all of this talk about "just" removing the other team's best WR neglects the effect of leadership and what having Revis around means. It's not a coincidence that the team was 2-1 and collapsed after he went down. Yes the pass defense was 2nd. The team went 6-10 and you can't tell me Revis wasn't a part of that. He's not Ray Lewis level of vocal but Revis is the Jets leader.

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