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Detroit Lions To Cut Titus Young


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#26 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:09 PM

These posts are nonsensical. And I say this with all due respect, as you're one of my favorites.

1. Yes, the chart indicates that these WR's are about equal at blocking. That's because most WR's really ARE about equal at blocking, because that isn't their job. Only rarely do you need a WR to make a key block, and I imagine its a rare occasion when teams make a real effort to test of a WR's blocking skills.

2. No validity to the metrics? Looks like those are right on. Burleson and Young grade out to below average receivers, Megatron and Andre are off the charts.

3. Show me the chart that says we have a top 3 offensive line, then we'll talk. Our line is about average at run blocking and pretty strong at pass-blocking these days, but we're not top 3.

4. Sure, why not draft a DE? The 2 elements every championship contender has these days are 1) Franchise QB, and 2) Pass-rush. If we can't fix the QB situation in the 2013 draft (likely seeing as this QB class is less than inspiring) I'd be in full support of bringing in another pass-rusher. It'll sure as hell make the potential loss of Revis sting much less.


Yes these charts are rubbish. Fans try to make football fit the baseball/basketball model where stats represent production individually. On a given "play" in baseball, there is one active batter. You can even count a base runner or two if you want. But offensively, they are either batting, or running. So stats and metrics work lovely. In the field you have one-to two guys either throwing or catching...maybe a third if there's a cutoff man. Easy stats, clear results. Football works nothing like this whatsover. 11 offensive guys, 11 defensive guys, each with individual jobs meshing together for a collective result, jobs outlined and determined by plays created by and called by coordinators, which ofetn change mid-play according to reactions to the opposing fronts shown. hot-routes, audibles, check-downs. Go ahead and hire Stephen Hawking, you'll never get an accurate chart on individual performance versus individual performance given the variables of teammates, differing schemes/coordinators/complementary positions/abilities. Which is why Mangold is the greatest when next to Faneca, but is haveing a "down year" next to Slauson, and why Reggie Wayne was washed up last year, and a probowler with Andrew Luck behind center. These. Charts. Are. Useless.
Also, you must have missed the thread where "metrics" determined the Jets OL to be #3 in the league.
Please take no offense...my annoyance is not with you, but the nonsensical statisticians who try to simplify an incredibly complex game and boil it down to charts and "metrics". It just isn't an accurate portrayal of individual accomplishment or lack thereof.
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#27 Jetsfan80

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:17 PM

Yes these charts are rubbish. Fans try to make football fit the baseball/basketball model where stats represent production individually. On a given "play" in baseball, there is one active batter. You can even count a base runner or two if you want. But offensively, they are either batting, or running. So stats and metrics work lovely. In the field you have one-to two guys either throwing or catching...maybe a third if there's a cutoff man. Easy stats, clear results. Football works nothing like this whatsover. 11 offensive guys, 11 defensive guys, each with individual jobs meshing together for a collective result, jobs outlined and determined by plays created by and called by coordinators, which ofetn change mid-play according to reactions to the opposing fronts shown. hot-routes, audibles, check-downs. Go ahead and hire Stephen Hawking, you'll never get an accurate chart on individual performance versus individual performance given the variables of teammates, differing schemes/coordinators/complementary positions/abilities. Which is why Mangold is the greatest when next to Faneca, but is haveing a "down year" next to Slauson, and why Reggie Wayne was washed up last year, and a probowler with Andrew Luck behind center. These. Charts. Are. Useless.
Also, you must have missed the thread where "metrics" determined the Jets OL to be #3 in the league.
Please take no offense...my annoyance is not with you, but the nonsensical statisticians who try to simplify an incredibly complex game and boil it down to charts and "metrics". It just isn't an accurate portrayal of individual accomplishment or lack thereof.


None of this is based on statistics though. It's on a scout's interpretation of a player's skill set based on tape, measurables, and playing ability. Its not worthless.

Certainly you must find value in grading out individual players, no? Otherwise why have a scouting department? In your estimation people should just throw up their hands, say, "this game is too complicated to evaluate any one player!" and leave it at that.

Edited by Jetsfan80, 05 February 2013 - 01:18 PM.

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sheesh, I'm a doosh.


#28 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:32 PM

None of this is based on statistics though. It's on a scout's interpretation of a player's skill set based on tape, measurables, and playing ability. Its not worthless.

Certainly you must find value in grading out individual players, no? Otherwise why have a scouting department? In your estimation people should just throw up their hands, say, "this game is too complicated to evaluate any one player!" and leave it at that.


No, not at all. I judge by actually viewing games and seeing what the players accomplish. There is no way Nate Burleson Blocks as well as Andre Johnson. I've seen them play. It is simply inaccurate. Whatever measurable is being used to judge blocking ability, is obviously flawed. What are the standards? Are they actually applying the chart to WR only, or is this a basic chart used to maesure all positions wherein all Offensive Tackles would rate highly in blocking but poorly or not at all in running or passing? Or is running = to run blocking and passing = to pass blocking? In which case, what does the general term "blocking" stand for? A chart is only as good as its creator and its application. This chart is bogus. Most football charts are bogus. For every chart that says one thing, another can be created using arbitrary metrics to say the opposite. Which is why scouts watch players and play and don't generally pick on the basis of statistics. If that was the case, Danny Woodhead would have been a top ten draft pick. And Coples would have fallen to the third round.
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#29 #27TheDominator

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

Sure. I bet they grade offensive tackles on passing accuracy too. It doesn't matter how well a WR blocks because on more than 75% of the plays his block is successful simply by having a DB lineup opposite. For the Jets the past few years it has probably been closer to 95%.
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by Angel crazy with over 3000 post some day 


#30 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:40 PM

Sure. I bet they grade offensive tackles on passing accuracy too. It doesn't matter how well a WR blocks because on more than 75% of the plays his block is successful simply by having a DB lineup opposite. For the Jets the past few years it has probably been closer to 95%.


yeah, thats exactly right. Grading a wr on blocking in a chart doesn't compare to grading a guard. So the metric for blocking, if standardized among all offensive players, would show all WRs to be stacked closely (like the chart above). The same would go for grading punters in blocking. Or centers in rushing.
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#31 JohnnyHector

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

No, not at all. I judge by actually viewing games and seeing what the players accomplish.


Ah, the infallible eye test that is applied while watching a game through a television camera that shows only a small portion of the field...
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#32 #27TheDominator

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:46 PM

yeah, thats exactly right. Grading a wr on blocking in a chart doesn't compare to grading a guard. So the metric for blocking, if standardized among all offensive players, would show all WRs to be stacked closely (like the chart above). The same would go for grading punters in blocking. Or centers in rushing.


Then what's the problem?
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by Angel crazy with over 3000 post some day 


#33 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:43 PM

Then what's the problem?


No problem! Lets never fight again, man.
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#34 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:46 PM

Ah, the infallible eye test that is applied while watching a game through a television camera that shows only a small portion of the field...


All dominant players will show up on camera at several points throughout the season, the only exception being a lockdown corner. And they get their just due by not being on highlight reels.
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#35 #27TheDominator

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:57 PM

No problem! Lets never fight again, man.



Screw you, hippie.
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by Angel crazy with over 3000 post some day 


#36 redman81

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 12:02 PM

St Louis can deal with him now.
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#37 BroadwayJoe12

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 03:41 PM

Dude was dropped, again, after being on a team for not even two weeks.  It's like he's milton bradley and albert belle mixed together.  When you have all the potential in the world and In a league where talent trumps all and you get cut twice, you know you're a special kind of a$$hole.  


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#38 JerryK

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:55 PM

The guy is a nutjob.  Intentionally wrecked plays during close games. 


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#39 bassmaster2

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:44 PM

He the type of player the old GM like a player who is always in trouble , he probably sign cheap and Jets do not have mach cap money , sign to a 1 year contract


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#40 SenorGato

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:04 PM

Tannenbaum and a one year contract? He'd give this kid all the money.
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#41 Larz

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:12 PM

good god is it august yet ?

 

some WR scrub who will never be a jets sets off a blocking stat discussion, lol


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#42 artemusclyde

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:11 PM

I think we should pick him up. He would be a great upgrade to our receiving core. Plus, no other team wants him so we could probably get him cheap.


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Tom Brady can't pull tens like you do all day long.


#43 Jetsfan80

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:22 PM

I think we should pick him up. He would be a great upgrade to our receiving core. Plus, no other team wants him so we could probably get him cheap.

 

We already have one malcontent at WR and you want to pair him with another one for our rookie QB?  No thanks.


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#44 artemusclyde

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:31 PM

We already have one malcontent at WR and you want to pair him with another one for our rookie QB?  No thanks.

 

Kids got talent though, and he would be cheap, plus maybe all the time he has spent without getting signed might change him for the better. I think we should at least take a look at him.


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#45 JoeKlecko

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:46 PM

Young. Talented. Troublemaker.

Sounds like a perfect fit for the Jets. Why the hell did they not offer a 7th rounder for this f#ck???

 

I thought you were joking at first.  That punk doesn't deserve to play in the NFL.  He's a spoiled, selfish, me-first and only, low-life, jerk.  We just got rid of one who was one of the greatest players ever.  Why in the world would we add someone much, MUCH worse who didn't have a tenth of the talent?

 

I'd rather NEVER win another SB than have him or anyone like him on the team.


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#46 JoeKlecko

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:49 PM

I think we should pick him up. He would be a great upgrade to our receiving core. Plus, no other team wants him so we could probably get him cheap.

 

Unreal.  Get some class, dude.  The Jets don't need a POS like that.  They don't need to sell their soul to win.  Particularly with a rookie QB who may or may not have some maturity problems.  Thankfully, I don't think that Idzik would ever make a move like that.  Rex probably would.  Tanny probably would have.  Tanny's gone, and hopefully, Rex will be too soon.


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#47 SayNoToDMC

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:00 PM

I think we should pick him up. He would be a great upgrade to our receiving core. Plus, no other team wants him so we could probably get him cheap.

 

Have we learned nothing? What happens every time we take on a player nobody else wants? Rex can fix him though!


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#48 Lil Bit Special

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:36 PM

I thought you were joking at first.  That punk doesn't deserve to play in the NFL.  He's a spoiled, selfish, me-first and only, low-life, jerk.  We just got rid of one who was one of the greatest players ever.  Why in the world would we add someone much, MUCH worse who didn't have a tenth of the talent?

 

I'd rather NEVER win another SB than have him or anyone like him on the team.

 

 

Im always joking.  


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#49 artemusclyde

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:46 PM

Unreal.  Get some class, dude.  The Jets don't need a POS like that.  They don't need to sell their soul to win.  Particularly with a rookie QB who may or may not have some maturity problems.  Thankfully, I don't think that Idzik would ever make a move like that.  Rex probably would.  Tanny probably would have.  Tanny's gone, and hopefully, Rex will be too soon.

 

Seriously, the kids like what 24. He's still a kid and he may have learned from his mistakes. Also, Vontaze Burfict had a lot of problems to and look at him now, he was nominated for defensive rookie of the year. 


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Tom Brady can't pull tens like you do all day long.


#50 Jetsfan80

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:56 PM

Seriously, the kids like what 24. He's still a kid and he may have learned from his mistakes. Also, Vontaze Burfict had a lot of problems to and look at him now, he was nominated for defensive rookie of the year. 

 

24 is not a "kid".  Maybe you can't rent a car, or these days get your own health insurance, until you're 25, but a kid he is not.  Why take the chance? It's not like he's a special talent.  If he was, the Lions probably would have overlooked his misgivings.  Lord knows they could use a true WR2 to take some pressure off Megatron.


Edited by Jetsfan80, 05 May 2013 - 08:57 PM.

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sheesh, I'm a doosh.





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