An unbiased medical opinion on Chads shoulder

[Savage69]

Chad could be the exception because the guy has a heart and the determination bigger then any injured player I've seen. Honestly, I think it's a 25/75 shot at him fully coming back, but if anyone can make something happen with 25% probability, it's Penny.

I agree on the 25% Guns..Since Chad had 25% of a Arm of what a avg Pro QB has he'd come back 100%!! Go Chadwick!!Plus if Hermie is back we know he'll start Chad and Martin and get them hurt in the first preseason Game so he can claim another Mulligan and suck up some more of Woody's bucks!!

[Preston Howley III]

..Since Chad had 25% of a Arm of what a avg Pro QB has he'd come back 100%!! Go Chadwick!!Plus if Hermie is back we know he'll start Chad and Martin and get them hurt in the first preseason Game so he can claim another Mulligan and suck up some more of Woody's bucks!!

Yup. Herm really knows how to work the system; he can work the fans, Tags, Woody...

I got a real kick out of that thread Smizzy posted about Raiders fans wanting Herm as their coach. Man, I'd love to see Herm try and work Al Davis.

The theme of this season has been "Herm lost QB #1 and #2, it was just one of those freak things".

To a certain degree, that is true. But there is also a chronology of events leading up to this disaster. Yes, ultimately it came down to "bad luck", but to just candidly dismiss it as only that, and then to give Herm a pass for the rest of the season for all his other mistakes and poor choices, is self delusion.

I've had my fill of fairy tales and lies.

This season should have been a mere dissapointment. However, it turned into an acute disaster, a result of chronic mismanagement and gross incompetence by management over the course of Herm and Terry's time at the helm. And it all came to a head, this week, with Curtis Martin finally being run into the ground.

The case against Herman Edwards begins in 2002, when Jonathan Goodwin was drafted. This player has been on the roster for 3 years, now, penciled in as the backup center. But let me fast forward to 2004-

Chad Pennington injured himself, and had a torn rotator cuff. Quincy Carter was the backup QB, who went 2-1 as the starter, and should have went 3-0, if not for horrendous play calling and clock management, and a pathetic game plan.

The severity of Pennington's injury was always kept secret. But since then, we have all come to know just how serious it was, and how inapropriately (to say the least) it was handled.

There was no reason for Herm to rush Pennington back. Quincy Carter was doing an admirable job. In fact, in the 3 games he started, he began to develop a repertoire with Santana Moss. There was some chemistry developing. We were lied too, and told that Chad was cleared to play, and if he was cleared, then he should play, as he was the starter.

Herm threw Quincy under the bus, and pretty much blamed him for the meltdown at the end of the Ravens game (as if the other 59 minutes of total mismanagement had nothing to do with being in that situation anyway/ same thing when Chrebet fumbled that ball in the waning minutes against the Bears the season before, Hermy spent the whole game feeding the ball to Martin, running out the clock like they had the lead tho protect, not the Bears).

I think it's fair to assume Quincy Carter has a drug problem. Drug addicts become drug addicts for a multitude of reasons, but one of which is they never developed coping mechanisms. Getting loaded is their coping mechanism. They tend to have unrealistic expectations and when things dont go perfect or at the very least the way they want them too, they self destruct and punish themselves.

I'm not going to justify what Quincy Carter did. But let's get one thing straight-

He bailed on the team AFTER the team bailed on him. I recall the day after the disaster in Pittsburgh when the truth came out about Pennington's injury status how "Herm had no choice but to play Pennington because Quincy quit the team". That is BS.

Herm and Terry are two idiots. Pennington should have been placed on IR, and action should have been taken for surgery. The team with Quincy at the helm would have finished the season no worse than 10-6 anyway. And no doubt about it, Quincy would not have succumbed to his demons if he was given something to occupy his time, like being a starting QB in the NFL.

Guess all that "Herm the motivator" drivel only works on players that need no motivating, but whatever.

So the fact that Herm played a seriously injured QB all season, and then during the playoffs, thus delaying his inevitable surgery and rehab, is grounds for dismissal.

But wait, it gets even better.

Herm does it again, this season.

He has a healthy Jay Feidler, but starts Pennington, who shined in one pre-season game, but in the last one, looked like something was definitely wrong.

In any event, both QB's get hurt for the year by week 4.

Which brings us to Bollinger.

The excuse dujour is "Herm can't win with his 3rd string QB dont be silly".

But let's face it, based on what we all know about the volatility and precariousness of Chad's injury, Bollinger was the defacto 2nd string QB.

Herm and Terry had all pre-season to get comfortable with that reality. And if they weren't, why didn't they sign Eakin (who's doing ok in NFL Europe) and dump Bollinger?

OK, so they keep Bollinger on the roster. Fine. I have no problem with that.

But when his number is gets called, Herm and Terry panic and sign Vinny, who had no training camp. And-

THEY HAND HIM THE STARTING JOB!!!

OK, so Vinny won his first start against the Buc's, but his numbers were actually worse than Bollingers were the week before in the loss against the Ravens.

Then things go south. Vinny is a disaster. They have to go back to Bollinger (under the rubrick that the season is kerplunk anyway and -go figure- Vinny gets injured playing behind that awesome O-line Herm and Terry developed).

Bollinger actually shows progress. He gets better and better. In spite of-

Herm playing musical chairs with the 0-line (I'll get to that in a minute)

Playing a RB with a busted knee so he can pad his stats

Pulling the rug from under his feet for the Vinny experiment

Now I ask you, this is the sign of a team that is being properly managed?

Take the 0-line debacle- Mawae got injured, so the standard operating procedure is to play the 2nd string center, right? So why was Godwin moved to guard? Why the panic move? Doesn't Godwin know how to play center? What have these coaches been doing with him for 3 years?

Herm compromised the 0-line twice as much. It was bad losing Mawae (your best center) But then you replace your best guard (Kendall) with Godwin.

Why not keep Kendall at guard and put Godwin at center? Instead of compromising one position, you compromise two. Add to that, the total disruption of the chemistry on the line. Add to that, you negate your running game, by continueing to feed the ball to an injured running back.

My God, people, under these circumstances Bollinger is actually excelling!!!!

The poor bastard.

Now, onto our current record. This team should never have been in the Reggie Bush sweepstakes to begin with. If Herm just engaged in SOP instead of reducing to panic moves that only exacerbated every problem, this team would have at least 5 wins right now.

This season should have been a mild dissapointment. But because of sheer ineptitude by a man who has no business running a fast food restaurant, never mind a professional football team, it turned into a fiasco.

This guy has got to go.

[Matt39]

Yup. Herm really knows how to work the system; he can work the fans, Tags, Woody...

I got a real kick out of that thread Smizzy posted about Raiders fans wanting Herm as their coach. Man, I'd love to see Herm try and work Al Davis.

The theme of this season has been "Herm lost QB #1 and #2, it was just one of those freak things".

To a certain degree, that is true. But there is also a chronology of events leading up to this disaster. Yes, ultimately it came down to "bad luck", but to just candidly dismiss it as only that, and then to give Herm a pass for the rest of the season for all his other mistakes and poor choices, is self delusion.

I've had my fill of fairy tales and lies.

This season should have been a mere dissapointment. However, it turned into an acute disaster, a result of chronic mismanagement and gross incompetence by management over the course of Herm and Terry's time at the helm. And it all came to a head, this week, with Curtis Martin finally being run into the ground.

The case against Herman Edwards begins in 2002, when Jonathan Goodwin was drafted. This player has been on the roster for 3 years, now, penciled in as the backup center. But let me fast forward to 2004-

Chad Pennington injured himself, and had a torn rotator cuff. Quincy Carter was the backup QB, who went 2-1 as the starter, and should have went 3-0, if not for horrendous play calling and clock management, and a pathetic game plan.

The severity of Pennington's injury was always kept secret. But since then, we have all come to know just how serious it was, and how inapropriately (to say the least) it was handled.

There was no reason for Herm to rush Pennington back. Quincy Carter was doing an admirable job. In fact, in the 3 games he started, he began to develop a repertoire with Santana Moss. There was some chemistry developing. We were lied too, and told that Chad was cleared to play, and if he was cleared, then he should play, as he was the starter.

Herm threw Quincy under the bus, and pretty much blamed him for the meltdown at the end of the Ravens game (as if the other 59 minutes of total mismanagement had nothing to do with being in that situation anyway/ same thing when Chrebet fumbled that ball in the waning minutes against the Bears the season before, Hermy spent the whole game feeding the ball to Martin, running out the clock like they had the lead tho protect, not the Bears).

I think it's fair to assume Quincy Carter has a drug problem. Drug addicts become drug addicts for a multitude of reasons, but one of which is they never developed coping mechanisms. Getting loaded is their coping mechanism. They tend to have unrealistic expectations and when things dont go perfect or at the very least the way they want them too, they self destruct and punish themselves.

I'm not going to justify what Quincy Carter did. But let's get one thing straight-

He bailed on the team AFTER the team bailed on him. I recall the day after the disaster in Pittsburgh when the truth came out about Pennington's injury status how "Herm had no choice but to play Pennington because Quincy quit the team". That is BS.

Herm and Terry are two idiots. Pennington should have been placed on IR, and action should have been taken for surgery. The team with Quincy at the helm would have finished the season no worse than 10-6 anyway. And no doubt about it, Quincy would not have succumbed to his demons if he was given something to occupy his time, like being a starting QB in the NFL.

Guess all that "Herm the motivator" drivel only works on players that need no motivating, but whatever.

So the fact that Herm played a seriously injured QB all season, and then during the playoffs, thus delaying his inevitable surgery and rehab, is grounds for dismissal.

But wait, it gets even better.

Herm does it again, this season.

He has a healthy Jay Feidler, but starts Pennington, who shined in one pre-season game, but in the last one, looked like something was definitely wrong.

In any event, both QB's get hurt for the year by week 4.

Which brings us to Bollinger.

The excuse dujour is "Herm can't win with his 3rd string QB dont be silly".

But let's face it, based on what we all know about the volatility and precariousness of Chad's injury, Bollinger was the defacto 2nd string QB.

Herm and Terry had all pre-season to get comfortable with that reality. And if they weren't, why didn't they sign Eakin (who's doing ok in NFL Europe) and dump Bollinger?

OK, so they keep Bollinger on the roster. Fine. I have no problem with that.

But when his number is gets called, Herm and Terry panic and sign Vinny, who had no training camp. And-

THEY HAND HIM THE STARTING JOB!!!

OK, so Vinny won his first start against the Buc's, but his numbers were actually worse than Bollingers were the week before in the loss against the Ravens.

Then things go south. Vinny is a disaster. They have to go back to Bollinger (under the rubrick that the season is kerplunk anyway and -go figure- Vinny gets injured playing behind that awesome O-line Herm and Terry developed).

Bollinger actually shows progress. He gets better and better. In spite of-

Herm playing musical chairs with the 0-line (I'll get to that in a minute)

Playing a RB with a busted knee so he can pad his stats

Pulling the rug from under his feet for the Vinny experiment

Now I ask you, this is the sign of a team that is being properly managed?

Take the 0-line debacle- Mawae got injured, so the standard operating procedure is to play the 2nd string center, right? So why was Godwin moved to guard? Why the panic move? Doesn't Godwin know how to play center? What have these coaches been doing with him for 3 years?

Herm compromised the 0-line twice as much. It was bad losing Mawae (your best center) But then you replace your best guard (Kendall) with Godwin.

Why not keep Kendall at guard and put Godwin at center? Instead of compromising one position, you compromise two. Add to that, the total disruption of the chemistry on the line. Add to that, you negate your running game, by continueing to feed the ball to an injured running back.

My God, people, under these circumstances Bollinger is actually excelling!!!!

The poor bastard.

Now, onto our current record. This team should never have been in the Reggie Bush sweepstakes to begin with. If Herm just engaged in SOP instead of reducing to panic moves that only exacerbated every problem, this team would have at least 5 wins right now.

This season should have been a mild dissapointment. But because of sheer ineptitude by a man who has no business running a fast food restaurant, never mind a professional football team, it turned into a fiasco.

This guy has got to go.

Put that in the archives!

Jetmo, you've been keeping me sane since High School. 2000-01 when Jetsinsider was alot like this place is now.

[Preston Howley III]

Matt39, you gotta put that Bruce Coslet pic back in your AVATAR!

[Matt39]

I will, I will.

You make a great point about Quincy. The guy was never as bad as people made him out to be. Not even close.

When the guy as asked to make a play he did. The bomb he throw to Moss at Arizona was beatuiful. When people refernce Chad, all they ever bring up was that pass to Moss at SD. Quincy made a throw just like that a few weeks prior. He got thrown under the bus.

It's too bad he had a problem. He was one of the top back ups in the NFL.

[stormshadow19]

Yup. Herm really knows how to work the system; he can work the fans, Tags, Woody...

I got a real kick out of that thread Smizzy posted about Raiders fans wanting Herm as their coach. Man, I'd love to see Herm try and work Al Davis.

The theme of this season has been "Herm lost QB #1 and #2, it was just one of those freak things".

To a certain degree, that is true. But there is also a chronology of events leading up to this disaster. Yes, ultimately it came down to "bad luck", but to just candidly dismiss it as only that, and then to give Herm a pass for the rest of the season for all his other mistakes and poor choices, is self delusion.

I've had my fill of fairy tales and lies.

This season should have been a mere dissapointment. However, it turned into an acute disaster, a result of chronic mismanagement and gross incompetence by management over the course of Herm and Terry's time at the helm. And it all came to a head, this week, with Curtis Martin finally being run into the ground.

The case against Herman Edwards begins in 2002, when Jonathan Goodwin was drafted. This player has been on the roster for 3 years, now, penciled in as the backup center. But let me fast forward to 2004-

Chad Pennington injured himself, and had a torn rotator cuff. Quincy Carter was the backup QB, who went 2-1 as the starter, and should have went 3-0, if not for horrendous play calling and clock management, and a pathetic game plan.

The severity of Pennington's injury was always kept secret. But since then, we have all come to know just how serious it was, and how inapropriately (to say the least) it was handled.

There was no reason for Herm to rush Pennington back. Quincy Carter was doing an admirable job. In fact, in the 3 games he started, he began to develop a repertoire with Santana Moss. There was some chemistry developing. We were lied too, and told that Chad was cleared to play, and if he was cleared, then he should play, as he was the starter.

Herm threw Quincy under the bus, and pretty much blamed him for the meltdown at the end of the Ravens game (as if the other 59 minutes of total mismanagement had nothing to do with being in that situation anyway/ same thing when Chrebet fumbled that ball in the waning minutes against the Bears the season before, Hermy spent the whole game feeding the ball to Martin, running out the clock like they had the lead tho protect, not the Bears).

I think it's fair to assume Quincy Carter has a drug problem. Drug addicts become drug addicts for a multitude of reasons, but one of which is they never developed coping mechanisms. Getting loaded is their coping mechanism. They tend to have unrealistic expectations and when things dont go perfect or at the very least the way they want them too, they self destruct and punish themselves.

I'm not going to justify what Quincy Carter did. But let's get one thing straight-

He bailed on the team AFTER the team bailed on him. I recall the day after the disaster in Pittsburgh when the truth came out about Pennington's injury status how "Herm had no choice but to play Pennington because Quincy quit the team". That is BS.

Herm and Terry are two idiots. Pennington should have been placed on IR, and action should have been taken for surgery. The team with Quincy at the helm would have finished the season no worse than 10-6 anyway. And no doubt about it, Quincy would not have succumbed to his demons if he was given something to occupy his time, like being a starting QB in the NFL.

Guess all that "Herm the motivator" drivel only works on players that need no motivating, but whatever.

So the fact that Herm played a seriously injured QB all season, and then during the playoffs, thus delaying his inevitable surgery and rehab, is grounds for dismissal.

But wait, it gets even better.

Herm does it again, this season.

He has a healthy Jay Feidler, but starts Pennington, who shined in one pre-season game, but in the last one, looked like something was definitely wrong.

In any event, both QB's get hurt for the year by week 4.

Which brings us to Bollinger.

The excuse dujour is "Herm can't win with his 3rd string QB dont be silly".

But let's face it, based on what we all know about the volatility and precariousness of Chad's injury, Bollinger was the defacto 2nd string QB.

Herm and Terry had all pre-season to get comfortable with that reality. And if they weren't, why didn't they sign Eakin (who's doing ok in NFL Europe) and dump Bollinger?

OK, so they keep Bollinger on the roster. Fine. I have no problem with that.

But when his number is gets called, Herm and Terry panic and sign Vinny, who had no training camp. And-

THEY HAND HIM THE STARTING JOB!!!

OK, so Vinny won his first start against the Buc's, but his numbers were actually worse than Bollingers were the week before in the loss against the Ravens.

Then things go south. Vinny is a disaster. They have to go back to Bollinger (under the rubrick that the season is kerplunk anyway and -go figure- Vinny gets injured playing behind that awesome O-line Herm and Terry developed).

Bollinger actually shows progress. He gets better and better. In spite of-

Herm playing musical chairs with the 0-line (I'll get to that in a minute)

Playing a RB with a busted knee so he can pad his stats

Pulling the rug from under his feet for the Vinny experiment

Now I ask you, this is the sign of a team that is being properly managed?

Take the 0-line debacle- Mawae got injured, so the standard operating procedure is to play the 2nd string center, right? So why was Godwin moved to guard? Why the panic move? Doesn't Godwin know how to play center? What have these coaches been doing with him for 3 years?

Herm compromised the 0-line twice as much. It was bad losing Mawae (your best center) But then you replace your best guard (Kendall) with Godwin.

Why not keep Kendall at guard and put Godwin at center? Instead of compromising one position, you compromise two. Add to that, the total disruption of the chemistry on the line. Add to that, you negate your running game, by continueing to feed the ball to an injured running back.

My God, people, under these circumstances Bollinger is actually excelling!!!!

The poor bastard.

Now, onto our current record. This team should never have been in the Reggie Bush sweepstakes to begin with. If Herm just engaged in SOP instead of reducing to panic moves that only exacerbated every problem, this team would have at least 5 wins right now.

This season should have been a mild dissapointment. But because of sheer ineptitude by a man who has no business running a fast food restaurant, never mind a professional football team, it turned into a fiasco.

This guy has got to go.

Post of the Week!

[Preston Howley III]

Bradway-y-y-y

[afosomf]

Bradway-y-y-y

I concur this upcoming draft is perhaps the most important in this franchise's history and i want no part of him involved.

[bitonti]

There was no reason for Herm to rush Pennington back. Quincy Carter was doing an admirable job.

How about the fact that Quincy Carter is a crack rock smoking degenerate? Let's just pass over the fact this dude was face down in the gutter while the Jets were two Doug Brien misses away from the AFC Championship.

[mudcat21]

Let's just pass over the fact this dude was face down in the gutter while the Jets were two Doug Brien misses away from the AFC Championship.

Actually in that time frame, Hermie was telling everyone that Carter was at his mothers bedside caring for his dying mother. Friggin Liar.

[bitonti]

Actually in that time frame, Hermie was telling everyone that Carter was at his mothers bedside caring for his dying mother. Friggin Liar.

I am not saying it's a lie but if you can find any article with Herm saying that i'd be interested.

[Preston Howley III]

How about the fact that Quincy Carter is a crack rock smoking degenerate? Let's just pass over the fact this dude was face down in the gutter while the Jets were two Doug Brien misses away from the AFC Championship.

Before or after Herm threw him under the bus for the last minute meltdown against the Ravens?

Quincy split the team after Herm replaced him with Pennington, not before. Herm had a choice. That is the point I was making. If Herm kept starting Quincy, he wouldn't have gone off on a binge.

What was Chad's record again after he replaced Quincy? 2-4?

Oh yeah, great decision Herm. Play the franchise QB with a torn rotator cuff so he can f**k it up even more, and delay his surgery/rehab so he isn't ready to begin the following season (but start him anyway). The guy is a friggin idiot.

He threw Quincy Carter, Doug Brien, And Santana Moss under a bus in 3 seperate losses last year-

Losses he was responsible for more than anyone else.

He is a d*ckbag.

[mudcat21]

I am not saying it's a lie but if you can find any article with Herm saying that i'd be interested.

Bit here are two articles. Alot more exist, I'm just to lazy to look for them.

NFL.com wire reports

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. (Jan. 12, 2005) -- All of a sudden, the New York Jets have issues at quarterback.

Chad Pennington missed practice with a stomach virus, while backup Quincy Carter went home to Georgia to be with his ailing mother. Pennington might not be able to practice Jan. 13, but coach Herman Edwards is confident his franchise player will be ready for a Jan. 15 divisional playoff game against Pittsburgh.

"He'll play," Edwards said. "I would be shocked if he didn't."

Pennington called Edwards the night of Jan. 11 to say he was sick. He came to Jets headquarters and tried to practice, but Edwards took one look at him and sent him inside to get some rest. Carter went home Jan. 11, so No. 3 quarterback Brooks Bollinger took the snaps with the first-team offense at practice.

Edwards said he did not know when Carter would return. That means Bollinger would be the backup for the game, not exactly the ideal situation for the Jets, who need Pennington at his best to have a shot at beating the Steelers.

Pennington back in N.Y. media's good graces after playoff victory

Thursday, January 13, 2005

By Chuck Finder, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. -- Forget his arm. Never mind about his head or heart.

The body part gripping the New York Jets, their fandom and the Gotham media is his tummy.

Chad Pennington, the quarterback who went from media devil to metropolitan darling in less than one month, was excused from Jets practice yesterday because of a stomach virus and is listed as probable for the AFC divisional playoff game against the Steelers.

"He looked pale," coach Herm Edwards said after a practice absent not only his starting quarterback but his backup as well, with Quincy Carter returning home to Georgia for family reasons. "He's usually pale, and I joke to him that he needs to go to the beach. But he looked like someone stole his best friend. So that wasn't a good sign.

"He'll get fluids, IV. He should be ready to practice [today]. He'll play. I would be shocked if he didn't. If anything, he gets to rest his arm. I don't anticipate him having any problems for Saturday."

It couldn't happen at a more meaningful juncture for the Jets and Pennington. Facing a rematch with the Steelers (15-1) against whom he looked sickly a month ago at Heinz Field. Having just quieted -- albeit temporarily -- with that 20-17 overtime victory in San Diego the bountiful critics who railed against his weak throwing arm after a rotator cuff injury and his inability to win the ballyhooed big game.

Intriguing that, immediately after a 47-yard touchdown heave against the Chargers, he would make a muscle of his right biceps and flex it toward the Jets' bench, a sign of might flashed to former quarterbacks and current receivers coach Jim Hostler of Bethel Park. Then four days later he gets felled by a flu-like bug passed on from his son, Cole, and wife, Robin.

Meantime, Carter left Long Island Tuesday to go home to his ailing mother, Sherry Carter-Embree. Edwards said the team might play without Carter Saturday, meaning second-year vet Brooks Bollinger ascends to No. 2 quarterback status this week. Bollinger has played just one NFL game, completing 5 of 9 passes for 60 yards in a relief role Nov. 28 at Arizona. Carter started the three games while Pennington was hurt and won two.

[Cant Hackett]

Before or after Herm threw him under the bus for the last minute meltdown against the Ravens?

Quincy split the team after Herm replaced him with Pennington, not before. Herm had a choice. That is the point I was making. If Herm kept starting Quincy, he wouldn't have gone off on a binge.

What was Chad's record again after he replaced Quincy? 2-4?

Oh yeah, great decision Herm. Play the franchise QB with a torn rotator cuff so he can f**k it up even more, and delay his surgery/rehab so he isn't ready to begin the following season (but start him anyway). The guy is a friggin idiot.

He threw Quincy Carter, Doug Brien, And Santana Moss under a bus in 3 seperate losses last year-

Losses he was responsible for more than anyone else.

He is a d*ckbag.

Moses, I like reading your posts, WTF, how can you say that? Carter was cut by Dallas because of his drug problem. Carter was not the solution. Because he starts, he wouldn't do drugs? If that true, then hell, we just found the solution to the drug problem. By the way, I hate Herm but you can't put Carter continuing to abuse drugs on him.