38 replies to this topic

[Ignatius del Sol]

#3 seems like a stretch. FO has us at 5th in the running game and 30th in pass protection which seems a lot more reasonable. A lot of that latter number is Sanchez, but Mangold and Moore really weren't very good this year, Howard is only good in comparison to Hunter, and Slauson's pass protection is only good in comparison to his run blocking. PFF's stats are faux. Anecdotal evidence expressed in numerical form is still bullsh*t.

[bitonti]

#3 seems like a stretch. FO has us at 5th in the running game and 30th in pass protection which seems a lot more reasonable. A lot of that latter number is Sanchez, but Mangold and Moore really weren't very good this year, Howard is only good in comparison to Hunter, and Slauson's pass protection is only good in comparison to his run blocking. PFF's stats are faux. Anecdotal evidence expressed in numerical form is still bullsh*t.

this statement is a perfect example why Jets fans underrate the OL. It's all focused on the Jets. It has no context about what other teams are doing and who they are trotting out there.

Everything you said might be true and the Jets could still be 3rd in the OL rankings. Look at San Diego, Arizona, Chicago, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Indy, Washington, St Louis. All were atrocious. Even "good" lines like Tennessee, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Giants, Bengals were decimated by key injuries by the end of the year.

Look around and then come back and say "Mangold wasn't very good." Compared to what?

Im not saying 3 is carved in stone but they are closer to 3 than 32.

Edited by bitonti, 08 February 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[Ignatius del Sol]

this statement is a perfect example why Jets fans underrate the OL.

Yeah, invoking adjusted sack rate is sooo typical, isn't it?

[bitonti]

Yeah, invoking adjusted sack rate is sooo typical, isn't it?

im not saying PFF is perfect and that their numbers are great.

I am saying there's probably 29 worse OL in the NFL than the Jets. It's a reasonable case to make. If Jets fans knew every starter on every OL from week to week, we wouldn't complain about Nick Mangold ever again.

[Ignatius del Sol]

If Jets fans knew every starter on every OL from week to week, we wouldn't complain about Nick Mangold ever again.

Yeah, because throwing names back and forth is doing a whole lot of good for either side of this argument.

[bitonti]

Yeah, because throwing names back and forth is doing a whole lot of good for either side of this argument.

It depends on the debate.

Is it "The Jets OL is not as good as it used to be?" or "The Jets OL is not 3rd best the league?" because both of those statements can be true.

Is it "The Jets OL is a big problem that needs to be fixed with a 1st round pick" cause I will debate that until the cows come home.

JMO the Jets OL Is about as good as the Ravens OL, who just won it all. And better than the Giants who won it last year and better than many other SB winning teams OL.

They can get better to be sure. It's just not a problem with the Jets. It's actually a strength along with Revis and the 3-4 DL.

[Ignatius del Sol]

better than the Giants

You've lost your mind.

[HessStation]

Yeah but Slauson is a JAG, Mangold is no longer in, D'Brick overrated, Moore is old, and I barely know Howard.

we're having a get-together next Friday, you should come.

[bitonti]

You've lost your mind.

there's this idea that great OL means points. The Giants OL during their Super Bowl win, player by player is not as good as the Jets. They had their current Right tackle David Diehl at left tackle. LG Boothe is arguably better than Slauson. But the Jets are better at the other 3 spots, and at LT and C they are much better.

[Ignatius del Sol]

there's this idea that great OL means points.

There's this idea that 20 sacks 4.6 Y/C means a better OL than 47 sacks 3.8 Y/C.

[bitonti]

There's this idea that 20 sacks 4.6 Y/C means a better OL than 47 sacks 3.8 Y/C.

 

these numbers have to do with the skills more than the OL. 

 

 

since we are talking about improvement, they are getting rid of Willie Colon in PIttsburgh - played great at LG this year. Brick - Colon - Mangold - Vlad - Hunter could be a good line. And without using a top 10 pick on a guard. 

[#27TheDominator]

these numbers have to do with the skills more than the OL. 

 

 

since we are talking about improvement, they are getting rid of Willie Colon in PIttsburgh - played great at LG this year. Brick - Colon - Mangold - Vlad - Hunter could be a good line. And without using a top 10 pick on a guard. 

Dude, you said Hunter.  Edit that quick!

[bitonti]

Dude, you said Hunter.  Edit that quick!

 

 

haha ya know   both H guys

[derp]

The Jets OL is almost definitely underrated by fans. It's far from awful. However, if they lose both guards as appears likely it spells big trouble IMO. I think they almost have to hand on to one of them, preferably Moore, just so they can retain continuity for the most part.

 

Breaking in two new guards means a lot of gelling has to happen in a short period of time, even harder with the new camp structure. And as important as tackles are, if poor guard play means interior pressure which is really tough for QB's to deal with. Plus I'd imagine we'll see Howard regress some without Moore next to him, his stability definitely helps the tackle out a lot. We saw how much going from Clarke to Faneca helped Brick.

[#27TheDominator]

It will be interesting to see what the switch to Mornhinweg means regarding the offensive line.  Slauson may come a bit back into favor because I think he is more hardworking slightly undersized guy and it might mean Vlad is back to useless.  

[SenorGato]

It will be interesting to see what the switch to Mornhinweg means regarding the offensive line.  Slauson may come a bit back into favor because I think he is more hardworking slightly undersized guy and it might mean Vlad is back to useless.  

 

Iunno, IIRC the Eagles have had a pretty large OL in recent years. Plus Vlad certainly has the athleticism to survive if he could you know...,learn to play on a full time basis.

 

It would be so huge if someone like Vlad, Sanchez, or some other disappointing but not untalented guy could break out under Marty's watch.

[derp]

Iunno, IIRC the Eagles have had a pretty large OL in recent years. Plus Vlad certainly has the athleticism to survive if he could you know...,learn to play on a full time basis.

 

It would be so huge if someone like Vlad, Sanchez, or some other disappointing but not untalented guy could break out under Marty's watch.

McKnight? Seems like the kind of RB skill-set wise who they've had success with in Philly.

[#27TheDominator]

I like Clyde Gates.  Assuming that he is capable of running the routes and not ******* up option routes.  He has the speed to put up some numbers if they start slinging it. 

[SenorGato]

McKnight? Seems like the kind of RB skill-set wise who they've had success with in Philly.

 

McKnight and Gates are decent candidates. Doors open for more than one guy showing up considering the age of some of these guys on the offense and the effect I've heard a long proven OC can have on the offense.