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Matt39

Tannenbaum- "I'd build my franchise around Russell Wilson over Luck, RG3 and Kaepernick"

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The way I read it is Bradway was advocating drafting a guy in round 3 who was projected to go in round 4.  As it turned out, someone else also had that idea and they picked ahead of us.

 

And I can get over drafting Sanchez; every team drafts busts, even early in the draft.  But I will never forgive Tannenbaum for the Sanchez extension and that alone should be grounds for him to never get another GM job ever.  And probably that's the way it will be.

 

That's a fair point and you're probably right, and I'm not saying that Tanny should have absolutely and obviously drafted Wilson.  More that what kind of horses ass makes a statement like this a year after his top scout was begging him to take that very same guy (which we know wouldn't have happened regardless) and perhaps more importantly, that draft being on the heels of him making two of the single dumbest QB-related moves in league history, one which you already touched on and the latter of which involved bringing in a guy who the head coach didn't even want on the team (by Tanny's own admission and seemingly verified by how the QB position was handled).

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Luck is the best, by far, and it isn't close. 

 

 

I think Wilson was the best and it is not even close. He is a better overall QB than Luck and he is not a running QB, he is a mobile QB.

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Funny he said that the SOB, LOL

I sent  a email last year before draft to Jets Front Office (I know he never saw),,titled: Draft Wilson in this draft'

I said Mike;

Please take Russel Wilson in 3rd/4th round, he has what it takes to be a star at this level.

 

He ignored me, LOL

You wrote it in comic sans, didn't ya?

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I think Wilson was the best and it is not even close. He is a better overall QB than Luck and he is not a running QB, he is a mobile QB.

 

Not even close? C'mon.  I can easily understand anyone feeling Wilson is/was the best of the bunch, if that's your opinion.  But "not even close" is way overstating.  RGIII was pretty awesome.  There wasn't anyone in the league that had a so much better of a season last year to the extend that RGIII wasn't even close, Aaron Rodgers included.  He was better, but "not even close" suggests such a wide gap that one of the two basically sucks.

 

RGIII's receivers suck (or any who don't suck were mostly injured), his OL is below average (basically Trent plus 4 borderline starters), and still had a great season.  

 

Unlike our QB who melts down in the face of adversity blocking and catching for him, this kid threw 20 TDs to only 5 picks (lowest interception percentage in the league).  

 

Multiple receivers of his - the ones healthy enough to actually play - were among the league leaders in dropped passes, and he still completed 66% on the season without being a Checkdown Charlie.

 

On top of all that, he had another 800+ yards and 7 more TDs on the ground (2 fumbles lost).  Wilson is dangerous on the ground as well, but there was a noticeable gap between the two over the course of the season.

 

So overall, that's 4000 yards, 27 TDs to only 7 turnovers, and he completed 66% of his passes (while only 1/6 of his completions went to his backs; Wilson's mark was about 1 in 4 completions being RB dumpoffs and he was a victim of far fewer drops and still completed a lower percentage of his passes). 

 

Plus Griffin's supporting defense freaking sucked, meaning he couldn't just sit back and let his RB & D do all the heavy lifting for him like Sanchez did coming out of the gate (or like Wilson had the advantage of doing in a bunch of games).  Wilson, like Sanchez, had the league's #1 defense behind him.  It's a huge luxury, just like his better receivers, just like his better OL, just like his more experienced (and still better) veteran RB who undoubtedly picks up blitzes better than Morris did as a rookie (Lynch is a damn good blocker now).  

 

Wilson had an excellent season overall, that was basically an amazing season for a rookie.  RGIII had an amazing season for anyone despite having so little to work with on a regular basis.  Kid is a freak and it's a damn shame Skelator was so loosey-goosey with the kid's career in the playoff game vs Seattle.  He shouldn't have even been on the field & everyone knows it.

 

 

Wilson may now be (or long-term may end up being) the best of the three.  Time will tell on that front.  But it's tough to argue that any QB in the league was THAT much better than Griffin.  Let alone a rookie who had a worse season (pre-RGIII injury) despite considerable advantages.  Bottom line is they were both historically-impressive for rookies.  Luck was pretty good for a rookie also, and in time he may be the best of the 3, but as a rookie the other 2 clearly out-classed him.  But players have been known to get better after their rookie seasons (and others, well the league just catches up to them sometimes).  It's quite the rookie QB class no matter who ends up being the best.  And they're all absolutely likable kids to boot.

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To be fair, he was responding to Bit's comment that "Luck is the best, by far, and it isn't close."  Since you feel that nobody was better than RGIII by far, you pretty much agree with him.  I tend to think Luck will be the best when it all shakes out. 

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Not even close? C'mon.  I can easily understand anyone feeling Wilson is/was the best of the bunch, if that's your opinion.  But "not even close" is way overstating.  RGIII was pretty awesome.  There wasn't anyone in the league that had a so much better of a season last year to the extend that RGIII wasn't even close, Aaron Rodgers included.  He was better, but "not even close" suggests such a wide gap that one of the two basically sucks.

 

RGIII's receivers suck (or any who don't suck were mostly injured), his OL is below average (basically Trent plus 4 borderline starters), and still had a great season.  

 

Unlike our QB who melts down in the face of adversity blocking and catching for him, this kid threw 20 TDs to only 5 picks (lowest interception percentage in the league).  

 

Multiple receivers of his - the ones healthy enough to actually play - were among the league leaders in dropped passes, and he still completed 66% on the season without being a Checkdown Charlie.

 

On top of all that, he had another 800+ yards and 7 more TDs on the ground (2 fumbles lost).  Wilson is dangerous on the ground as well, but there was a noticeable gap between the two over the course of the season.

 

So overall, that's 4000 yards, 27 TDs to only 7 turnovers, and he completed 66% of his passes (while only 1/6 of his completions went to his backs; Wilson's mark was about 1 in 4 completions being RB dumpoffs and he was a victim of far fewer drops and still completed a lower percentage of his passes). 

 

Plus Griffin's supporting defense freaking sucked, meaning he couldn't just sit back and let his RB & D do all the heavy lifting for him like Sanchez did coming out of the gate (or like Wilson had the advantage of doing in a bunch of games).  Wilson, like Sanchez, had the league's #1 defense behind him.  It's a huge luxury, just like his better receivers, just like his better OL, just like his more experienced (and still better) veteran RB who undoubtedly picks up blitzes better than Morris did as a rookie (Lynch is a damn good blocker now).  

 

Wilson had an excellent season overall, that was basically an amazing season for a rookie.  RGIII had an amazing season for anyone despite having so little to work with on a regular basis.  Kid is a freak and it's a damn shame Skelator was so loosey-goosey with the kid's career in the playoff game vs Seattle.  He shouldn't have even been on the field & everyone knows it.

 

 

Wilson may now be (or long-term may end up being) the best of the three.  Time will tell on that front.  But it's tough to argue that any QB in the league was THAT much better than Griffin.  Let alone a rookie who had a worse season (pre-RGIII injury) despite considerable advantages.  Bottom line is they were both historically-impressive for rookies.  Luck was pretty good for a rookie also, and in time he may be the best of the 3, but as a rookie the other 2 clearly out-classed him.  But players have been known to get better after their rookie seasons (and others, well the league just catches up to them sometimes).  It's quite the rookie QB class no matter who ends up being the best.  And they're all absolutely likable kids to boot.

 

Very well said and tough to argue with much of it.  I think two of the major factors in a lot of opinions come down to more than just individual performance though.  As you said, regardless of any other factors, Wilson's season has to be considered unbelievable for a rookie, but I think it amazes people that much more considering it came from a 3rd pick (who was considered to be drafted high no less), that was competing against a veteran who was largely considered as the guy whose job it was to lose.  RG3, on the other hand, had an unquestionably ridiculous season, but I think such a rough start to his career in the health department has a lot of people concerned and questioning how long he can keep it all up.  Time will tell how it all shakes out, but you can sure as hell bet none of their teams are anything but thrilled to have Wilson, RG3 or Luck.

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Not even close? C'mon.  I can easily understand anyone feeling Wilson is/was the best of the bunch, if that's your opinion.  But "not even close" is way overstating.  RGIII was pretty awesome.  There wasn't anyone in the league that had a so much better of a season last year to the extend that RGIII wasn't even close, Aaron Rodgers included.  He was better, but "not even close" suggests such a wide gap that one of the two basically sucks.

 

RGIII's receivers suck (or any who don't suck were mostly injured), his OL is below average (basically Trent plus 4 borderline starters), and still had a great season.  

 

Unlike our QB who melts down in the face of adversity blocking and catching for him, this kid threw 20 TDs to only 5 picks (lowest interception percentage in the league).  

 

Multiple receivers of his - the ones healthy enough to actually play - were among the league leaders in dropped passes, and he still completed 66% on the season without being a Checkdown Charlie.

 

On top of all that, he had another 800+ yards and 7 more TDs on the ground (2 fumbles lost).  Wilson is dangerous on the ground as well, but there was a noticeable gap between the two over the course of the season.

 

So overall, that's 4000 yards, 27 TDs to only 7 turnovers, and he completed 66% of his passes (while only 1/6 of his completions went to his backs; Wilson's mark was about 1 in 4 completions being RB dumpoffs and he was a victim of far fewer drops and still completed a lower percentage of his passes). 

 

Plus Griffin's supporting defense freaking sucked, meaning he couldn't just sit back and let his RB & D do all the heavy lifting for him like Sanchez did coming out of the gate (or like Wilson had the advantage of doing in a bunch of games).  Wilson, like Sanchez, had the league's #1 defense behind him.  It's a huge luxury, just like his better receivers, just like his better OL, just like his more experienced (and still better) veteran RB who undoubtedly picks up blitzes better than Morris did as a rookie (Lynch is a damn good blocker now).  

 

Wilson had an excellent season overall, that was basically an amazing season for a rookie.  RGIII had an amazing season for anyone despite having so little to work with on a regular basis.  Kid is a freak and it's a damn shame Skelator was so loosey-goosey with the kid's career in the playoff game vs Seattle.  He shouldn't have even been on the field & everyone knows it.

 

 

Wilson may now be (or long-term may end up being) the best of the three.  Time will tell on that front.  But it's tough to argue that any QB in the league was THAT much better than Griffin.  Let alone a rookie who had a worse season (pre-RGIII injury) despite considerable advantages.  Bottom line is they were both historically-impressive for rookies.  Luck was pretty good for a rookie also, and in time he may be the best of the 3, but as a rookie the other 2 clearly out-classed him.  But players have been known to get better after their rookie seasons (and others, well the league just catches up to them sometimes).  It's quite the rookie QB class no matter who ends up being the best.  And they're all absolutely likable kids to boot.

 

  Sorry but  having 26 TDs and only 10 INTs  and 4 Rushing TDS is pretty good for any QB, regardless of years in the NFL.

 

  At the end of the day,  RG3 is like Vick.   Game changers that could change the game.  But they seem to get hurt too easily and too often.  

If RG3 can stay healthy and not change his game because of injuries, he could be unbelievable.  But if he becomes just so-so and can't change because of injuries, he'll be one of those guys who never lived up to expectations.    

 

 And I dont' know why Kapernick is thrown into these conversations at all. The guy was picked in a different draft class. So while he did get his start last year, it wasn't like teams picked Wilson or RG3 or Luck instead of Kapernick.      And out of all the guys, Kapernick stepped into a situation where his team was already a super bowl contender with Alex Smith as QB.  Huge difference.    Wilson, RG3, and Luck all started as rookies on teams who weren't exactly playoff contenders the year before.

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  Sorry but  having 26 TDs and only 10 INTs  and 4 Rushing TDS is pretty good for any QB, regardless of years in the NFL.

 

  At the end of the day,  RG3 is like Vick.   Game changers that could change the game.  But they seem to get hurt too easily and too often.  

If RG3 can stay healthy and not change his game because of injuries, he could be unbelievable.  But if he becomes just so-so and can't change because of injuries, he'll be one of those guys who never lived up to expectations.    

 

 And I dont' know why Kapernick is thrown into these conversations at all. The guy was picked in a different draft class. So while he did get his start last year, it wasn't like teams picked Wilson or RG3 or Luck instead of Kapernick.      And out of all the guys, Kapernick stepped into a situation where his team was already a super bowl contender with Alex Smith as QB.  Huge difference.    Wilson, RG3, and Luck all started as rookies on teams who weren't exactly playoff contenders the year before.

 

 

It IS pretty good for a veteran.  But it isn't AMAZING. 

 

It's AMAZING for a rookie, which Wilson was.  By veteran standards, Wilson had a very good season.  But it would be considered a step backwards if Aaron Rodgers had a season like that.  Griffin had a great season even for a veteran.  A huge offensive weapon like that and was twice as efficient at protecting the football AND, as Sanchezopologists like to use an excuse, his receivers were either injured or lousy on top of that.  Plus his below average OL plus his below average support on D.

 

And RG3 as a rookie was a much better passer than Vick ever was.

 

 

But my point, which you seem to have missed, is that Wilson even if you think Wilson was better last season (a valid opinion), he was not so much better than RG3 last year that the comparison could be described as "not even close" in any sense.  

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It IS pretty good for a veteran.  But it isn't AMAZING. 

 

It's AMAZING for a rookie, which Wilson was.  By veteran standards, Wilson had a very good season.  But it would be considered a step backwards if Aaron Rodgers had a season like that.  Griffin had a great season even for a veteran.  A huge offensive weapon like that and was twice as efficient at protecting the football AND, as Sanchezopologists like to use an excuse, his receivers were either injured or lousy on top of that.  Plus his below average OL plus his below average support on D.

 

And RG3 as a rookie was a much better passer than Vick ever was.

 

 

But my point, which you seem to have missed, is that Wilson even if you think Wilson was better last season (a valid opinion), he was not so much better than RG3 last year that the comparison could be described as "not even close" in any sense.  

 

 

It's not even close in my opinion if you look at the long term career projection which is what Tanny was looking at as well. I think Wilson projects to have the best career and I still do not think it is close. And Wilson's year was FAR above very good even for a veteran,

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It's not even close in my opinion if you look at the long term career projection which is what Tanny was looking at as well. I think Wilson projects to have the best career and I still do not think it is close. And Wilson's year was FAR above very good even for a veteran,

 

No, you said "Wilson was the best and it's not even close" --  that is a direct quote (boldface added for emphasis).  You neither said nor even insinuated anything at all about long term career projections between the two.  You said Wilson was the best last year, and Wilson IS better than Luck.

 

25 TDs and 10 INTs, and 64% completions (with 1/4 of them going to RBs) is very good to excellent.  It isn't amazing/great/brilliant.  20 TDs to 4 INTs passing, plus 66% completions on an offense that never throws dumpoffs, to receivers who are top-5 in dropped passes, and another 800 rushing yards with 7 TDs...that is a GREAT season for a rookie or for a veteran.  

 

I can definitely see how people like Wilson better and how they think he will have the better career.  It's a valid opinion.  But Wilson did not have a great/brilliant season (for a veteran player) and RGIII did.  Simple as that.  Therefore, in my opinion, RGIII had a better season than Wilson did (pre-injury).   But even if you disagree with that, and still feel Wilson was better, in no universe was Wilson so much better that the comparison could be classified as "not even close" between them.  

 

That is what you said about their rookie seasons, not about their future prospects.

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No. I'm talking about the one who had Pierre Garçon making ridiculous catches nonstop because he couldn't put the ball on his numbers ever.

 

Seriously, did you even watch the redskins play last year. The receivers on that team couldn't catch worth sh*t and were dropping everything.

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I've seen him play plenty. He isn't as accurate as Kaepernick.

 

Kaepernick had a stacked team. Stop blowing him, rg3 when healthy was dominating. He basically carried the redskins into the playoffs. Out of all the times, honestly speaking, Kaepernick had the best team, and you argue that Rg3 had great receivers. Seriously man, get out of here. Why the hell do you think Alex Smith was playing so well? Simple, that team was ******* stacked.

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Seriously, did you even watch the redskins play last year. The receivers on that team couldn't catch worth sh*t and were dropping everything.

 

Ding-ding-ding!

 

Garcon wasn't even healthy for half the season.  Even when he was active he wasn't all there.  He had that one long TD pass in week 1 then we didn't hear from him again for 2 months.  Meanwhile over those 2 months RGIII was like the top passer in the league.  

 

And it goes to show, with the replacement receivers Washington trotted out there, that no-name receivers don't stop a superior talent from being a top-notch QB.  Put those same guys on the Jets and you'd hear whining about how Woody never opens his wallet for real receiving talent for Sanchez.  Not that the 2012 Jets were exactly fielding all of the AFC's representatives for receivers, but Washington's receivers SUCKED.  AND Griffin didn't throw to his backs any more than Sanchez did, for all the blame that went that way as well.  But when he did, he certainly didn't fire off-target fastballs from point-blank range the way Sanchez did to his backs.  AND 4/5 of Washington's OL were marginal starters.

 

Wilson is more of an underdog story because of his height and his draft position.  If he was drafted 10th and was 6'3" tall I don't think anyone would be saying he was better.  RGIII got hurt last year & Wilson didn't.  Good for one & sucks for the other.  But it doesn't mean every year will look like that.  In the end, RGIII may have a short career, but to me he was the most impressive of the first-year starters last season.  He did the most while having the the least to work with.  That said, all 4 being discussed all look like they'll be stars for years & will have outstanding careers if they stay healthy.  

 

Four impressive, young talents at the position.  Certainly from the way things look today, I wish we had any of them.  

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Skins schedule was weak last year. Wilson plays in the best division in football.

 

Obviously going out on a limb here- but Wilson finishes in the top 3 in MVP voting imo.

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You would have taken Randall Cunningham over Joe Montana.

 

 

Not sure what that has to do with anything.

 

My ranking would be:

 

1. Wilson

2. Luck

3. Kapernick

4. RG3

 

I think Wilson is the best overall player of the four. I think he is a pocket QB that has mobility, more like Aaron Rodgers than RG3 or Kapernick. I think that ability allows him to make plays and also take the fewest big hits which bodes well for his long term health.He throws a more catacheable ball than Luck, and from the games I watched last year Wilson is more accurate, has unbelievable touch and his intangibles in terms of game management and leadership are Peyton like and I think that this separates him. 

 

Luck could very well play to his #1 pick and be the next great QB. But a lot of his comebacks were enabled by his poor play earlier. I think there is a lot more Favre in Luck than Manning, but I am not sure he is as good as those others from a passing and game management standpoint.

 

Kapernick and Wilson are unique QBs. They need the read option to be effective because they are not as good of pocket passers as Luck or Wilson. Both look to run when out of the pocket whereas Wilson looks to pass. I think defenses will catch up to the read option, and it will affect both of these guys ability to be elite. Plus, they take many more hits than Wilson or Luck and RG3 is already off to a bad start health wise.

 

I think they could all be exceptional. But I think that Wilsons game smarts, leadership, touch and accuracy and escapability are the best overall skillset of the four for a franchise QB. I think Kapernick and RG3 could fall back if defenses catch up to the read option.

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Not sure what that has to do with anything.

My ranking would be:

1. Wilson

2. Luck

3. Kapernick

4. RG3

I think Wilson is the best overall player of the four. I think he is a pocket QB that has mobility, more like Aaron Rodgers than RG3 or Kapernick. I think that ability allows him to make plays and also take the fewest big hits which bodes well for his long term health.He throws a more catacheable ball than Luck, and from the games I watched last year Wilson is more accurate, has unbelievable touch and his intangibles in terms of game management and leadership are Peyton like and I think that this separates him.

Luck could very well play to his #1 pick and be the next great QB. But a lot of his comebacks were enabled by his poor play earlier. I think there is a lot more Favre in Luck than Manning, but I am not sure he is as good as those others from a passing and game management standpoint.

Kapernick and Wilson are unique QBs. They need the read option to be effective because they are not as good of pocket passers as Luck or Wilson. Both look to run when out of the pocket whereas Wilson looks to pass. I think defenses will catch up to the read option, and it will affect both of these guys ability to be elite. Plus, they take many more hits than Wilson or Luck and RG3 is already off to a bad start health wise.

I think they could all be exceptional. But I think that Wilsons game smarts, leadership, touch and accuracy and escapability are the best overall skillset of the four for a franchise QB. I think Kapernick and RG3 could fall back if defenses catch up to the read option.

Ahhhh. I thought you meant that you'd have put Luck last.

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Completely off topic- but a guy who's a FA next year who I think the Jets should pursue(and probably will with the Seattle connection) is Golden Tate. Quietly a pretty good WR and probably wont be very expensive.

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