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Tannenbaum- "I'd build my franchise around Russell Wilson over Luck, RG3 and Kaepernick"


Matt39

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Pretty much, but I expect to be right once again.

Edit: I sat on this extremely well thought out reply for so long that Sperm beat me by 9 minutes. Seriously THO, some of you guys preaching "watch football" have clearly not seen RG3 pass very often.

I've seen him play plenty. He isn't as accurate as Kaepernick.

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Garçon hardly played until late November. I saw a lot of his games this year and saw a whole lot of throws that were right on the money. Other than a healthy Garçon, which he didn't have much of, his receivers suck. Josh Morgan is much worse than Justin McCareins. Fred Davis is worse than Dustin Keller (for the half-dozen games he was there for). Santana Moss is a has-been. Aldrick Robinson is a total nothing. Leonard Hankerson has some talent but still isn't as productive as Jeremy Kerley.

Nobody gets that lucky over a 15-game stretch to complete 2/3 of his passes with a 4:1 TD:INT ratio. And unlike every other QB with that type of completion percentage, only about 20 of those completions went to his backs. How many times have you seen that before? I've never seen it.

Now throw in on top of that stat, that (among QBs who attempted 300 passes) his receivers were either #1 or #2 most likely in the NFL to drop passes. About 1 out of 5 of RGIII's incomplete passes were receiver drops, even when you factor in killing the clock and purposeful throws out of bounds.

And he's still the least of the four that I'd rather have. I'd much rather have Kaepernick, Luck or Wilson going forward and that was before the mismanagement of his mangled knee.

Listen, I don't have a dog in this fight because none of them play for the Jets so I don't watch them for 16 games. From the games and highlights I've seen, RGIII was the least impressive to me. Alfred Morris was way more important to that team than RGIII. The Redskins offense skipped no beats when the backup went in for the most part because of that running game. I doubt the same would be said about the other three offenses, especially since Kaepernick was the backup and the offense saw a solid uptick in production.

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And he's still the least of the four that I'd rather have. I'd much rather have Kaepernick, Luck or Wilson going forward and that was before the mismanagement of his mangled knee.

Listen, I don't have a dog in this fight because none of them play for the Jets so I don't watch them for 16 games. From the games and highlights I've seen, RGIII was the least impressive to me. Alfred Morris was way more important to that team than RGIII. The Redskins offense skipped no beats when the backup went in for the most part because of that running game. I doubt the same would be said about the other three offenses, especially since Kaepernick was the backup and the offense saw a solid uptick in production.

 

Well, we just differ on that opinion, as we differed on Sanchez.  I think it's RGIII's running around and passing deep that left a lot of room for Morris to run.  Morris looked really good, but I saw an awful lot of runs where no one touched him for a bit and while he does have quick feet cutting-wise, he's no burner by any means.  Those first 10 games of the season he had under 80 yards in half those games and had 20 touches in less than even that.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight either, but when RGIII was out, Morris didn't look so awesome, so I don't know what you're talking about on that point.

 

I'd be happy with any of these QBs over our stiff that you had such praise (or excuses) for.

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And thus this is the reason that Tanny is no longer a GM in this league. Every time he opens his mouth he just reminds everyone that he is a poor judge of talent. Luck is in a class by himself. He'll have a Peyton like career. While I really like Kap those running skills will be defensed better once those skills slightly fade. Same with Wilson and RG3.

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And thus this is the reason that Tanny is no longer a GM in this league. Every time he opens his mouth he just reminds everyone that he is a poor judge of talent. Luck is in a class by himself. He'll have a Peyton like career. While I really like Kap those running skills will be defensed better once those skills slightly fade. Same with Wilson and RG3.

I think that's the question--if you take the running ability away, which quarterbacks would you want?

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I think that's the question--if you take the running ability away, which quarterbacks would you want?

 

I was more impressed with Wilson's in pocket ability than Lucks late in the season. No one was calmer than Russell...Luck had the happy feet going.

 

Hell, we made Luck look awful this year.

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3rd of those 4... though he's probably the most accurate of the 4 and his arm is still well above average. It'd still take him above the other 3. 

 

I don't think you can go wrong with any of them...RG3 scares me because of his style....but I think all four proved they can be legit pocket passers if need be. Cam too.

 

Wilson's game against the Falcons I thought was absurd....so maybe that's clouding my judgement a little because its the last game any of those guys played....but from a rookie that's as good as it gets

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I don't think you can go wrong with any of them...RG3 scares me because of his style....but I think all four proved they can be legit pocket passers if need be. Cam too.

 

Wilson's game against the Falcons I thought was absurd....so maybe that's clouding my judgement a little because its the last game any of those guys played....but from a rookie that's as good as it gets

I'd go:

 

Luck

Kapernick

Wilson 

RG3

 

Only because of RG3's style of play. 

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Tanny is going out of his way to make sure he never gets another job.

 

If he really felt this way, why didn't he draft Russell Wilson?

 

F***ing this.  Obviously he REALLY felt that you should build your franchise around incumbent starter Mark Sanchez rather than Russell Wilson or he wouldn't be a Seahawk.

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Also, all 4 QB's are pretty f***ing awesome, so who really cares which one someone would choose?  At this point, does it really look like any of them won't have success in the league for a long time (if healthy)?

 

Plus, 2 of them weren't 1st round picks.  So, yeah, let's get someone like any one of those 4.

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I was more impressed with Wilson's in pocket ability than Lucks late in the season. No one was calmer than Russell...Luck had the happy feet going.

Hell, we made Luck look awful this year.

I'm probably just prejudiced by history, but the guys who win are the ones who stay in the pocket and spread the ball around. The mobile dudes get in the playoffs limping or near death. I like Wilson, and I'm not trying to say he's a running QB, but he does scramble and he is tiny, which affects my vote. I don't think the pistol is long for the NFL, so everyone running it today is at a disadvantage. If you ask me which guy will make that transition faster, I have to go with Kaepernick. Bigger, huge arm, great coach teaching him the fundamentals.

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Bob Glauber‏@BobGlauber

Former Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum, former Chiefs GM Scott Pioli will do on-air commentary from Scouting Combine for NFL Network.

LOL

Pioli: I've been watching this player for a long time, Mike, and I like him. He's got excellent leg drive, he's got the balance and--look here--he sees the alignment, adjusts, and is able to identify the dog pre-snap, and makes the play. What do you think?

Tannenbaum: Haha. I dunno. What do you think?

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Pioli: I've been watching this player for a long time, Mike, and I like him. He's got excellent leg drive, he's got the balance and--look here--he sees the alignment, adjusts, and is able to identify the dog pre-snap, and makes the play. What do you think?

Tannenbaum: Haha. I dunno. What do you think?

 

Will Brinson            ‏@willbrinson       What's the over/under on number of times Mike Tannenbaum says "when I drafted Darrelle Revis" during NFL combine coverage?  
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Pioli: I've been watching this player for a long time, Mike, and I like him. He's got excellent leg drive, he's got the balance and--look here--he sees the alignment, adjusts, and is able to identify the dog pre-snap, and makes the play. What do you think?

Tannenbaum: Haha. I dunno. What do you think?

You have A LOT more respect for Pioli than I do. I think they suck pretty equally, in much the same way.

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You have A LOT more respect for Pioli than I do. I think they suck pretty equally, in much the same way.

Wherever he's gone, he's put talent on the team, with the Jets, Pats and Chiefs. His big misses in KC were getting duped by Cassell's big year and finding out what a wackjob Todd Haley is. Pioli drafts Jamaal Charles, Tannenbaum trades up for Joe McKnight.

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I'm probably just prejudiced by history, but the guys who win are the ones who stay in the pocket and spread the ball around. The mobile dudes get in the playoffs limping or near death. I like Wilson, and I'm not trying to say he's a running QB, but he does scramble and he is tiny, which affects my vote. I don't think the pistol is long for the NFL, so everyone running it today is at a disadvantage. If you ask me which guy will make that transition faster, I have to go with Kaepernick. Bigger, huge arm, great coach teaching him the fundamentals.

We are seeing things completely different. I think the pistol is going to become more prevalent because of the poor tackling and increased safety rules. Even without that I think Wilson is fine, he may only be 5'10 but he is thick, a solid 220 pounds of muscle and has enough quickness to get away from any lineman or linebacker and a good bit of the safeties.

It's Kapernick that is in trouble with the running. He looks like he could get broken in half.

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We are seeing things completely different. I think the pistol is going to become more prevalent because of the poor tackling and increased safety rules. Even without that I think Wilson is fine, he may only be 5'10 but he is thick, a solid 220 pounds of muscle and has enough quickness to get away from any lineman or linebacker and a good bit of the safeties.

It's Kapernick that is in trouble with the running. He looks like he could get broken in half.

The increased safety rules actually put mobile QBs in worse jeopardy. Now, every ballcarrier is getting spiked in the knees by defenders trying to avoid helmet-to-helmet. The rules are made to benefit the pocket passer--you can't lay a finger on their helmet and you can't hit them below the thigh pad without drawing a roughing penalty. Outside of the pocket, all that goes away. Ask RGIII about poor tackling.

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The increased safety rules actually put mobile QBs in worse jeopardy. Now, every ballcarrier is getting spiked in the knees by defenders trying to avoid helmet-to-helmet. The rules are made to benefit the pocket passer--you can't lay a finger on their helmet and you can't hit them below the thigh pad without drawing a roughing penalty. Outside of the pocket, all that goes away. Ask RGIII about poor tackling.

That's not entirely true, what about the slide rule. And, I bet we will soon see a "defenseless" quarterback rule for the case I which they have pitched the ball to the runner instead of keeping it. Whoa, can't hit that dude, he's just standing there and not trying to block.

Also - ACL injuries are one of happenstance, of turning or twisting the knee at the wrong time.

The running injuries that you are thinking about are the ones most likely to affect a Tebow style runner or a pocket passer that get a bug up his arse to run. Not only did Tebo have back to back years of bruised ribs, he also got worn down on some games. I did not see that a R Wilson. I saw a little of that with RGIII but mainly because he really puts himself in some dangerous spots. And let's not forget that A Luck has some legs on him. He gets out and runs too. Wanna know what I'm sick of, I'm tired of the elitist attitudes that look down on run in QBs. Hell man, none of them are growing up to be brain surgeons.

Cheers. Go Seahawks. Go Pack.

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  • 4 months later...

Football Outsider's 2013 Almanac comes out soon- just a snippet from it regarding Wilson:

 

F-U Tanny. If it makes you feel any better, the Jaguars took a punter 5 picks before Wilson. I also forgot my reading glasses today.

 

Since coming out of 
Wisconsin, Wilson
 has set or tied rookie records for highest Lewin Career Forecast projection, touchdown passes, single-game DYAR (twice), and total season DYAR. When you include Wilson’s four rushing scores, only Cam Newton (21 touchdowns passing, 14 rushing) produced more combined touchdowns in his first year. In the last half of the year, Wilson threw 16 touchdowns and two interceptions and led the NFL in passing 
DVOA
. Over the course of the season, he was third in DVOA when trailing or tied in the fourth quarter or overtime (behind only 
Peyton Manning
 and 
Tom Brady
) and fourth in DVOA on third downs (behind Manning, Brady, and Aaron Rodgers). He was also third in DVOA on deep passes.

The 
Seahawks
 worked around Wilson’s height by putting him in motion. Including scrambles, he had a league-high 163 plays outside the pocket, with a DVOA of 39.3%. If defenses wanted to blitz the edge and keep Wilson in the pocket, that was OK too—his DVOA there was 37.8%, one of the ten best in football and better than Super Bowl winners like Drew Brees, 
Eli Manning
, and 
Ben Roethlisberger
. Finally, he was second to Cam Newton among 
quarterbacks
 in rushing DYAR.

 

 

If you have questions about some of those stats, a glossary can be found here, but the point is actually pretty simple. 19 quarterbacks in the NFL history have thrown at least 100 passes in their rookie seasons after being selected in the third round, and Wilson's year wasn't just historically significant from that perspective; it was just short of revolutionary. His 100.00 passer rating and 7.10 Net Yards per Attempt were by far the highest for any third-round rookie in NFL history, and among third-round quarterbacks in any year of their careers. By any measure, Wilson's rookie season was one of the more successful at his position in the history of pro football.

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Football Outsider's 2013 Almanac comes out soon- just a snippet from it regarding Wilson:

 

F-U Tanny. If it makes you feel any better, the Jaguars took a punter 5 picks before Wilson. I also forgot my reading glasses today.

 

If you have questions about some of those stats, a glossary can be found here, but the point is actually pretty simple. 19 quarterbacks in the NFL history have thrown at least 100 passes in their rookie seasons after being selected in the third round, and Wilson's year wasn't just historically significant from that perspective; it was just short of revolutionary. His 100.00 passer rating and 7.10 Net Yards per Attempt were by far the highest for any third-round rookie in NFL history, and among third-round quarterbacks in any year of their careers. By any measure, Wilson's rookie season was one of the more successful at his position in the history of pro football.

 

Right. He backed down from his own convictions on draft day. That's why we fired him - because Bradway saw his franchise QB, and Tannenbaum said "no". This article makes me want to puke.

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You people believe everything!

 

The Jets would have drafted Wilson if not for Tannenbaum's bumbling.  When would they have done this?  It would be nice to think they could have gotten him in the third round, but the Seahawks picked before the Jets. Could you imagine the screams of "WEAPNZ!"  if the Jets drafted Wilson in the 2nd and didn't have Hill?  Ugh. 

 

Shonn Greene had a first round grade.   They say this about every ******* player they draft in the first 3 rounds.  See Ducasse, Vlad and Hill, Stephen.  The Jets talk up their draft picks.  Did you know that other teams do that too?  

 

Big ******* Deal

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I know that. I just see things in Wilson I've never seen from a rookie QB.

 

Luck had his hiccups. His throwing motion and mechanics look a bit funky too...his front throwing foot he plants too far on his throws. 

 

Luck is going to be very good...Wilson I think is going to be a superstar.

 

That has something to do with his mental makeup/intelligence and talent, but also has a lot to do with the fact that he played professional baseball and is already 25 years old, so he is more mentally and physically mature.

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