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Tannenbaum- "I'd build my franchise around Russell Wilson over Luck, RG3 and Kaepernick"


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#176 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:20 PM

You people believe everything!

 

The Jets would have drafted Wilson if not for Tannenbaum's bumbling.  When would they have done this?  It would be nice to think they could have gotten him in the third round, but the Seahawks picked before the Jets. Could you imagine the screams of "WEAPNZ!"  if the Jets drafted Wilson in the 2nd and didn't have Hill?  Ugh. 

 

Shonn Greene had a first round grade.   They say this about every ******* player they draft in the first 3 rounds.  See Ducasse, Vlad and Hill, Stephen.  The Jets talk up their draft picks.  Did you know that other teams do that too?  

 

Big ******* Deal

 

That would have been hysterical.

 

~March 20, 2012: Give Mark Sanchez 3 year extension with another $20M guaranteed.

 

~March 25, 2012: Trade a 4th & a 6th (or something like that) for Tim Tebow who also gets a couple million per year guaranteed, including bonus money Denver should have been paying.

 

~April 20, 2012: Use our 2nd round pick on a 5'10.5" QB who (despite Seattle taking him in round 3) most had him projected to get drafted 2 rounds later as maybe the 6th-8th ranked QB in the draft.

 

 

Right.  Like there was a chance of that happening.  

 

NO ONE was taking Russell Wilson in round 2 (and even with the benefit of hindsight that saw him go a round earlier than expected, obviously no one did draft him in in the 2nd).  Sure, I'll bet lots of GMs would take him that high knowing what they know now.  But back then (particularly the Jets, who just signed two young QBs with starting playoff experience? Someone would have shot Tannenbaum before mini camp if he took Wilson in the 2nd a month later.  And it probably would have been one of the people who now hate him for not grabbing Wilson.

 

And for all that Pete Carroll supposedly "knew" about Russell Wilson, he certainly should have known he could have massively reached for Wilson in round 2 and saved the team from busting their nut acquiring & locking up Matt Flynn.  


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#177 Matt39

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

If Christian Ponder can go in the first round- I think the term reach needs to be completely thrown out the window when grading QB's. Flynn had just signed with the Seahawks too to be the starter.


Edited by Matt39, 17 July 2013 - 12:51 PM.

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#178 Bleedin Green

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:19 PM

That would have been hysterical.

 

~March 20, 2012: Give Mark Sanchez 3 year extension with another $20M guaranteed.

 

~March 25, 2012: Trade a 4th & a 6th (or something like that) for Tim Tebow who also gets a couple million per year guaranteed, including bonus money Denver should have been paying.

 

~April 20, 2012: Use our 2nd round pick on a 5'10.5" QB who (despite Seattle taking him in round 3) most had him projected to get drafted 2 rounds later as maybe the 6th-8th ranked QB in the draft.

 

 

Right.  Like there was a chance of that happening.  

 

NO ONE was taking Russell Wilson in round 2 (and even with the benefit of hindsight that saw him go a round earlier than expected, obviously no one did draft him in in the 2nd).  Sure, I'll bet lots of GMs would take him that high knowing what they know now.  But back then (particularly the Jets, who just signed two young QBs with starting playoff experience? Someone would have shot Tannenbaum before mini camp if he took Wilson in the 2nd a month later.  And it probably would have been one of the people who now hate him for not grabbing Wilson.

 

And for all that Pete Carroll supposedly "knew" about Russell Wilson, he certainly should have known he could have massively reached for Wilson in round 2 and saved the team from busting their nut acquiring & locking up Matt Flynn.  

 

While I get your point, I don't think Tanny being a complete ******* moron in extending Sanchez and trading for Tebow excuses him for being a ******* moron in other QB-related decisions.  While I agree some took their opinions on this to extreme extents, Tanny is still a complete horses ass for saying something like this less than one year removed from there being numerous reports that the Jets' lead scout was absolutely in love with the player in question, all while the Jets were sporting two of the prior season's very worst QBs.


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#179 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:23 PM

While I get your point, I don't think Tanny being a complete ******* moron in extending Sanchez and trading for Tebow excuses him for being a ******* moron in other QB-related decisions.  While I agree some took their opinions on this to extreme extents, Tanny is still a complete horses ass for saying something like this less than one year removed from there being numerous reports that the Jets' lead scout was absolutely in love with the player in question, all while the Jets were sporting two of the prior season's very worst QBs.

 

The way I read it is Bradway was advocating drafting a guy in round 3 who was projected to go in round 4.  As it turned out, someone else also had that idea and they picked ahead of us.

 

And I can get over drafting Sanchez; every team drafts busts, even early in the draft.  But I will never forgive Tannenbaum for the Sanchez extension and that alone should be grounds for him to never get another GM job ever.  And probably that's the way it will be.


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#180 Lizard King

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:25 PM

Why are we doing this to ourselves.


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#181 Bleedin Green

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 01:32 PM

The way I read it is Bradway was advocating drafting a guy in round 3 who was projected to go in round 4.  As it turned out, someone else also had that idea and they picked ahead of us.

 

And I can get over drafting Sanchez; every team drafts busts, even early in the draft.  But I will never forgive Tannenbaum for the Sanchez extension and that alone should be grounds for him to never get another GM job ever.  And probably that's the way it will be.

 

That's a fair point and you're probably right, and I'm not saying that Tanny should have absolutely and obviously drafted Wilson.  More that what kind of horses ass makes a statement like this a year after his top scout was begging him to take that very same guy (which we know wouldn't have happened regardless) and perhaps more importantly, that draft being on the heels of him making two of the single dumbest QB-related moves in league history, one which you already touched on and the latter of which involved bringing in a guy who the head coach didn't even want on the team (by Tanny's own admission and seemingly verified by how the QB position was handled).


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#182 T0mShane

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:44 PM

What would have been fun is watching us draft Wilson, then watching Rex use him on five snaps per game to run the freeze option.
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#183 johnnysd

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 04:07 PM

Luck is the best, by far, and it isn't close. 

 

 

I think Wilson was the best and it is not even close. He is a better overall QB than Luck and he is not a running QB, he is a mobile QB.


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#184 Gastineau Lives

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:37 PM

Funny he said that the SOB, LOL

I sent  a email last year before draft to Jets Front Office (I know he never saw),,titled: Draft Wilson in this draft'

I said Mike;

Please take Russel Wilson in 3rd/4th round, he has what it takes to be a star at this level.

 

He ignored me, LOL

You wrote it in comic sans, didn't ya?


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#185 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:26 AM

I think Wilson was the best and it is not even close. He is a better overall QB than Luck and he is not a running QB, he is a mobile QB.

 

Not even close? C'mon.  I can easily understand anyone feeling Wilson is/was the best of the bunch, if that's your opinion.  But "not even close" is way overstating.  RGIII was pretty awesome.  There wasn't anyone in the league that had a so much better of a season last year to the extend that RGIII wasn't even close, Aaron Rodgers included.  He was better, but "not even close" suggests such a wide gap that one of the two basically sucks.

 

RGIII's receivers suck (or any who don't suck were mostly injured), his OL is below average (basically Trent plus 4 borderline starters), and still had a great season.  

 

Unlike our QB who melts down in the face of adversity blocking and catching for him, this kid threw 20 TDs to only 5 picks (lowest interception percentage in the league).  

 

Multiple receivers of his - the ones healthy enough to actually play - were among the league leaders in dropped passes, and he still completed 66% on the season without being a Checkdown Charlie.

 

On top of all that, he had another 800+ yards and 7 more TDs on the ground (2 fumbles lost).  Wilson is dangerous on the ground as well, but there was a noticeable gap between the two over the course of the season.

 

So overall, that's 4000 yards, 27 TDs to only 7 turnovers, and he completed 66% of his passes (while only 1/6 of his completions went to his backs; Wilson's mark was about 1 in 4 completions being RB dumpoffs and he was a victim of far fewer drops and still completed a lower percentage of his passes). 

 

Plus Griffin's supporting defense freaking sucked, meaning he couldn't just sit back and let his RB & D do all the heavy lifting for him like Sanchez did coming out of the gate (or like Wilson had the advantage of doing in a bunch of games).  Wilson, like Sanchez, had the league's #1 defense behind him.  It's a huge luxury, just like his better receivers, just like his better OL, just like his more experienced (and still better) veteran RB who undoubtedly picks up blitzes better than Morris did as a rookie (Lynch is a damn good blocker now).  

 

Wilson had an excellent season overall, that was basically an amazing season for a rookie.  RGIII had an amazing season for anyone despite having so little to work with on a regular basis.  Kid is a freak and it's a damn shame Skelator was so loosey-goosey with the kid's career in the playoff game vs Seattle.  He shouldn't have even been on the field & everyone knows it.

 

 

Wilson may now be (or long-term may end up being) the best of the three.  Time will tell on that front.  But it's tough to argue that any QB in the league was THAT much better than Griffin.  Let alone a rookie who had a worse season (pre-RGIII injury) despite considerable advantages.  Bottom line is they were both historically-impressive for rookies.  Luck was pretty good for a rookie also, and in time he may be the best of the 3, but as a rookie the other 2 clearly out-classed him.  But players have been known to get better after their rookie seasons (and others, well the league just catches up to them sometimes).  It's quite the rookie QB class no matter who ends up being the best.  And they're all absolutely likable kids to boot.


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#186 #27TheDominator

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 09:51 AM

To be fair, he was responding to Bit's comment that "Luck is the best, by far, and it isn't close."  Since you feel that nobody was better than RGIII by far, you pretty much agree with him.  I tend to think Luck will be the best when it all shakes out. 


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#187 Bleedin Green

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 10:27 AM

Not even close? C'mon.  I can easily understand anyone feeling Wilson is/was the best of the bunch, if that's your opinion.  But "not even close" is way overstating.  RGIII was pretty awesome.  There wasn't anyone in the league that had a so much better of a season last year to the extend that RGIII wasn't even close, Aaron Rodgers included.  He was better, but "not even close" suggests such a wide gap that one of the two basically sucks.

 

RGIII's receivers suck (or any who don't suck were mostly injured), his OL is below average (basically Trent plus 4 borderline starters), and still had a great season.  

 

Unlike our QB who melts down in the face of adversity blocking and catching for him, this kid threw 20 TDs to only 5 picks (lowest interception percentage in the league).  

 

Multiple receivers of his - the ones healthy enough to actually play - were among the league leaders in dropped passes, and he still completed 66% on the season without being a Checkdown Charlie.

 

On top of all that, he had another 800+ yards and 7 more TDs on the ground (2 fumbles lost).  Wilson is dangerous on the ground as well, but there was a noticeable gap between the two over the course of the season.

 

So overall, that's 4000 yards, 27 TDs to only 7 turnovers, and he completed 66% of his passes (while only 1/6 of his completions went to his backs; Wilson's mark was about 1 in 4 completions being RB dumpoffs and he was a victim of far fewer drops and still completed a lower percentage of his passes). 

 

Plus Griffin's supporting defense freaking sucked, meaning he couldn't just sit back and let his RB & D do all the heavy lifting for him like Sanchez did coming out of the gate (or like Wilson had the advantage of doing in a bunch of games).  Wilson, like Sanchez, had the league's #1 defense behind him.  It's a huge luxury, just like his better receivers, just like his better OL, just like his more experienced (and still better) veteran RB who undoubtedly picks up blitzes better than Morris did as a rookie (Lynch is a damn good blocker now).  

 

Wilson had an excellent season overall, that was basically an amazing season for a rookie.  RGIII had an amazing season for anyone despite having so little to work with on a regular basis.  Kid is a freak and it's a damn shame Skelator was so loosey-goosey with the kid's career in the playoff game vs Seattle.  He shouldn't have even been on the field & everyone knows it.

 

 

Wilson may now be (or long-term may end up being) the best of the three.  Time will tell on that front.  But it's tough to argue that any QB in the league was THAT much better than Griffin.  Let alone a rookie who had a worse season (pre-RGIII injury) despite considerable advantages.  Bottom line is they were both historically-impressive for rookies.  Luck was pretty good for a rookie also, and in time he may be the best of the 3, but as a rookie the other 2 clearly out-classed him.  But players have been known to get better after their rookie seasons (and others, well the league just catches up to them sometimes).  It's quite the rookie QB class no matter who ends up being the best.  And they're all absolutely likable kids to boot.

 

Very well said and tough to argue with much of it.  I think two of the major factors in a lot of opinions come down to more than just individual performance though.  As you said, regardless of any other factors, Wilson's season has to be considered unbelievable for a rookie, but I think it amazes people that much more considering it came from a 3rd pick (who was considered to be drafted high no less), that was competing against a veteran who was largely considered as the guy whose job it was to lose.  RG3, on the other hand, had an unquestionably ridiculous season, but I think such a rough start to his career in the health department has a lot of people concerned and questioning how long he can keep it all up.  Time will tell how it all shakes out, but you can sure as hell bet none of their teams are anything but thrilled to have Wilson, RG3 or Luck.


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#188 pedro55

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 12:42 PM

Not even close? C'mon.  I can easily understand anyone feeling Wilson is/was the best of the bunch, if that's your opinion.  But "not even close" is way overstating.  RGIII was pretty awesome.  There wasn't anyone in the league that had a so much better of a season last year to the extend that RGIII wasn't even close, Aaron Rodgers included.  He was better, but "not even close" suggests such a wide gap that one of the two basically sucks.

 

RGIII's receivers suck (or any who don't suck were mostly injured), his OL is below average (basically Trent plus 4 borderline starters), and still had a great season.  

 

Unlike our QB who melts down in the face of adversity blocking and catching for him, this kid threw 20 TDs to only 5 picks (lowest interception percentage in the league).  

 

Multiple receivers of his - the ones healthy enough to actually play - were among the league leaders in dropped passes, and he still completed 66% on the season without being a Checkdown Charlie.

 

On top of all that, he had another 800+ yards and 7 more TDs on the ground (2 fumbles lost).  Wilson is dangerous on the ground as well, but there was a noticeable gap between the two over the course of the season.

 

So overall, that's 4000 yards, 27 TDs to only 7 turnovers, and he completed 66% of his passes (while only 1/6 of his completions went to his backs; Wilson's mark was about 1 in 4 completions being RB dumpoffs and he was a victim of far fewer drops and still completed a lower percentage of his passes). 

 

Plus Griffin's supporting defense freaking sucked, meaning he couldn't just sit back and let his RB & D do all the heavy lifting for him like Sanchez did coming out of the gate (or like Wilson had the advantage of doing in a bunch of games).  Wilson, like Sanchez, had the league's #1 defense behind him.  It's a huge luxury, just like his better receivers, just like his better OL, just like his more experienced (and still better) veteran RB who undoubtedly picks up blitzes better than Morris did as a rookie (Lynch is a damn good blocker now).  

 

Wilson had an excellent season overall, that was basically an amazing season for a rookie.  RGIII had an amazing season for anyone despite having so little to work with on a regular basis.  Kid is a freak and it's a damn shame Skelator was so loosey-goosey with the kid's career in the playoff game vs Seattle.  He shouldn't have even been on the field & everyone knows it.

 

 

Wilson may now be (or long-term may end up being) the best of the three.  Time will tell on that front.  But it's tough to argue that any QB in the league was THAT much better than Griffin.  Let alone a rookie who had a worse season (pre-RGIII injury) despite considerable advantages.  Bottom line is they were both historically-impressive for rookies.  Luck was pretty good for a rookie also, and in time he may be the best of the 3, but as a rookie the other 2 clearly out-classed him.  But players have been known to get better after their rookie seasons (and others, well the league just catches up to them sometimes).  It's quite the rookie QB class no matter who ends up being the best.  And they're all absolutely likable kids to boot.

 

  Sorry but  having 26 TDs and only 10 INTs  and 4 Rushing TDS is pretty good for any QB, regardless of years in the NFL.

 

  At the end of the day,  RG3 is like Vick.   Game changers that could change the game.  But they seem to get hurt too easily and too often.  

If RG3 can stay healthy and not change his game because of injuries, he could be unbelievable.  But if he becomes just so-so and can't change because of injuries, he'll be one of those guys who never lived up to expectations.    

 

 And I dont' know why Kapernick is thrown into these conversations at all. The guy was picked in a different draft class. So while he did get his start last year, it wasn't like teams picked Wilson or RG3 or Luck instead of Kapernick.      And out of all the guys, Kapernick stepped into a situation where his team was already a super bowl contender with Alex Smith as QB.  Huge difference.    Wilson, RG3, and Luck all started as rookies on teams who weren't exactly playoff contenders the year before.


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#189 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:13 PM

  Sorry but  having 26 TDs and only 10 INTs  and 4 Rushing TDS is pretty good for any QB, regardless of years in the NFL.

 

  At the end of the day,  RG3 is like Vick.   Game changers that could change the game.  But they seem to get hurt too easily and too often.  

If RG3 can stay healthy and not change his game because of injuries, he could be unbelievable.  But if he becomes just so-so and can't change because of injuries, he'll be one of those guys who never lived up to expectations.    

 

 And I dont' know why Kapernick is thrown into these conversations at all. The guy was picked in a different draft class. So while he did get his start last year, it wasn't like teams picked Wilson or RG3 or Luck instead of Kapernick.      And out of all the guys, Kapernick stepped into a situation where his team was already a super bowl contender with Alex Smith as QB.  Huge difference.    Wilson, RG3, and Luck all started as rookies on teams who weren't exactly playoff contenders the year before.

 

 

It IS pretty good for a veteran.  But it isn't AMAZING. 

 

It's AMAZING for a rookie, which Wilson was.  By veteran standards, Wilson had a very good season.  But it would be considered a step backwards if Aaron Rodgers had a season like that.  Griffin had a great season even for a veteran.  A huge offensive weapon like that and was twice as efficient at protecting the football AND, as Sanchezopologists like to use an excuse, his receivers were either injured or lousy on top of that.  Plus his below average OL plus his below average support on D.

 

And RG3 as a rookie was a much better passer than Vick ever was.

 

 

But my point, which you seem to have missed, is that Wilson even if you think Wilson was better last season (a valid opinion), he was not so much better than RG3 last year that the comparison could be described as "not even close" in any sense.  


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#190 JordyNYR

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 01:27 PM

I wouldn't build my franchise around a 5' 11" QB these days. I'd pick Luck or Kaep.


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#191 Blackout

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 04:26 PM

russell wilson is about that life

 

 

colin humperdink and rg3 aren't.


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#192 jetsjetsjetss

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 12:20 PM

id like luck but wilson wouldnt have been a bad choice

 

id like rg3 to win me a game over all of em but im not building around a guy who i think will be hurt a lot of his career


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#193 johnnysd

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

It IS pretty good for a veteran.  But it isn't AMAZING. 

 

It's AMAZING for a rookie, which Wilson was.  By veteran standards, Wilson had a very good season.  But it would be considered a step backwards if Aaron Rodgers had a season like that.  Griffin had a great season even for a veteran.  A huge offensive weapon like that and was twice as efficient at protecting the football AND, as Sanchezopologists like to use an excuse, his receivers were either injured or lousy on top of that.  Plus his below average OL plus his below average support on D.

 

And RG3 as a rookie was a much better passer than Vick ever was.

 

 

But my point, which you seem to have missed, is that Wilson even if you think Wilson was better last season (a valid opinion), he was not so much better than RG3 last year that the comparison could be described as "not even close" in any sense.  

 

 

It's not even close in my opinion if you look at the long term career projection which is what Tanny was looking at as well. I think Wilson projects to have the best career and I still do not think it is close. And Wilson's year was FAR above very good even for a veteran,


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#194 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 10:18 PM

It's not even close in my opinion if you look at the long term career projection which is what Tanny was looking at as well. I think Wilson projects to have the best career and I still do not think it is close. And Wilson's year was FAR above very good even for a veteran,

 

No, you said "Wilson was the best and it's not even close" --  that is a direct quote (boldface added for emphasis).  You neither said nor even insinuated anything at all about long term career projections between the two.  You said Wilson was the best last year, and Wilson IS better than Luck.

 

25 TDs and 10 INTs, and 64% completions (with 1/4 of them going to RBs) is very good to excellent.  It isn't amazing/great/brilliant.  20 TDs to 4 INTs passing, plus 66% completions on an offense that never throws dumpoffs, to receivers who are top-5 in dropped passes, and another 800 rushing yards with 7 TDs...that is a GREAT season for a rookie or for a veteran.  

 

I can definitely see how people like Wilson better and how they think he will have the better career.  It's a valid opinion.  But Wilson did not have a great/brilliant season (for a veteran player) and RGIII did.  Simple as that.  Therefore, in my opinion, RGIII had a better season than Wilson did (pre-injury).   But even if you disagree with that, and still feel Wilson was better, in no universe was Wilson so much better that the comparison could be classified as "not even close" between them.  

 

That is what you said about their rookie seasons, not about their future prospects.


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#195 dbatesman

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 10:50 PM

I hear Rex was pounding the table for Wilson. If it weren't for Tannenbaum, he'd have like five Super Bowl rings by now.
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#196 artemusclyde

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 12:27 AM

No. I'm talking about the one who had Pierre Garçon making ridiculous catches nonstop because he couldn't put the ball on his numbers ever.

 

Seriously, did you even watch the redskins play last year. The receivers on that team couldn't catch worth sh*t and were dropping everything.


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#197 artemusclyde

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 12:33 AM

I've seen him play plenty. He isn't as accurate as Kaepernick.

 

Kaepernick had a stacked team. Stop blowing him, rg3 when healthy was dominating. He basically carried the redskins into the playoffs. Out of all the times, honestly speaking, Kaepernick had the best team, and you argue that Rg3 had great receivers. Seriously man, get out of here. Why the hell do you think Alex Smith was playing so well? Simple, that team was ******* stacked.


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#198 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 10:30 AM

Seriously, did you even watch the redskins play last year. The receivers on that team couldn't catch worth sh*t and were dropping everything.

 

Ding-ding-ding!

 

Garcon wasn't even healthy for half the season.  Even when he was active he wasn't all there.  He had that one long TD pass in week 1 then we didn't hear from him again for 2 months.  Meanwhile over those 2 months RGIII was like the top passer in the league.  

 

And it goes to show, with the replacement receivers Washington trotted out there, that no-name receivers don't stop a superior talent from being a top-notch QB.  Put those same guys on the Jets and you'd hear whining about how Woody never opens his wallet for real receiving talent for Sanchez.  Not that the 2012 Jets were exactly fielding all of the AFC's representatives for receivers, but Washington's receivers SUCKED.  AND Griffin didn't throw to his backs any more than Sanchez did, for all the blame that went that way as well.  But when he did, he certainly didn't fire off-target fastballs from point-blank range the way Sanchez did to his backs.  AND 4/5 of Washington's OL were marginal starters.

 

Wilson is more of an underdog story because of his height and his draft position.  If he was drafted 10th and was 6'3" tall I don't think anyone would be saying he was better.  RGIII got hurt last year & Wilson didn't.  Good for one & sucks for the other.  But it doesn't mean every year will look like that.  In the end, RGIII may have a short career, but to me he was the most impressive of the first-year starters last season.  He did the most while having the the least to work with.  That said, all 4 being discussed all look like they'll be stars for years & will have outstanding careers if they stay healthy.  

 

Four impressive, young talents at the position.  Certainly from the way things look today, I wish we had any of them.  


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#199 T0mShane

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:09 AM

I hear Rex was pounding the table for Wilson. If it weren't for Tannenbaum, he'd have like five Super Bowl rings by now.



Rex is the COACH.
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#200 T0mShane

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:16 AM

1. Luck
2. RGIII
2a. Kaepernick
4. Wilson
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