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The NY Jets QB Situation

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It will be interesting to see if Marty agrees.  Some QBs have gotten better with time.  Rich Gannon jumps to mind. 

 

You want to hang onto Sanchez and watch him struggle for another 7 years in case he turns into Rich Gannon?

 

Name another QB who was as crappy as Sanchez at this stage of his career - and then factor in today's officiating compared to the 1990s and earlier - who turned into a pro bowl QB.

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I was stating what I think they should do, not what I think they will do.  And I don't care what Idzik or Ryan would do anyway.  I don't have to do any PR ass-covering since I'm not the GM.  Idzik does, however.  Reading Rex's totally unenthusiastic and seemingly forced support for Sanchez, it seems he knows Sanchez is garbage also.  No one announces there will be competition at a position unless he thinks there's lots of room for improvement.  Notice he isn't saying there's going to be competition for Ferguson, Mangold, Cromartie, Revis (if he returns), Wilkerson, etc.  The reason is obvious.  He may be a silly man and lacking in certain areas as a HC, but he's not retarded.

 

Jets are absorbing $8.25M of new money to Sanchez in 2013 no matter what.  We have a mediocre to major mess of a roster situation in 2013 no matter what.  Why push some of it off to 2014? I think we can be contenders by 2014.  Having Sanchez on the team in 2013 only hurts that because it means he hits the cap significantly for yet another year no matter what we do after the '13 season.

 

It has nothing to do with personal feelings for Sanchez. My answer is because I don't give a crap about him at all.  He is bad for the team and having his cap hits spill over to 2014 is worse for the team.  Next year you'll see why, when we add a $2M player at a position instead of a $7M player because of Sanchez's dead cap space (and that's if we do nothing; restructure him a little and it's even worse).

 

Idzik cannot get this "straightened out" no matter how much of a chance you want to give him.  Sanchez stays in '13 and he hits the cap in '14.  Sanchez is shipped off in the spring and he doesn't.  There is no way around it because the Jets have already paid him so much in bonuses.  The choice is to have the cap hit for bonus money paid accelerate to 2013 or 2014.  I would choose 2013.

Sanchez sucks no matter who the receivers are.  If a guy is open he is open.  Whether a receiver's name is Clyde Gates or Antonio Cromartie or Larry Fitzgerald, the ball doesn't get delivered on-target on its own.  He cannot throw a football straight and cannot read coverage.  All he sees is his own receiver (and so does everyone else because of his idiotic stare-downs) and even when that receiver is open he still fails to throw a strike 80-90% of the time.

We disagree in several areas on this and I'll try to address each one.

 

First off, Rex knows zero about offense so when did his opinion on talent on offense start to matter? I would take anything he says about Sanchez with a grain of salt, or anyone else on O for that matter. What Idz says is what counts since he will be the one providing the talent. Idz said that there will competition at EVERY position and that no position is guaranteed at this point. That's all that matters.

 

I disagree with you on Idz fixing the cap, but lets talk about the cap in both years. If you cut Sanchez now, you take the extra 5 mil hit in this years cap, plus the cap hit on his replacement. Using you figures, lets say the replacement is a  2 mil hit. Now there's a 7 mil extra hit on this year cap (your figure for 2014). This years cap is a 100 times worse that what it will be in 2014. So taking the extra 7 mil hit this year may require cutting some other player that wouldn't be cut otherise, but more importantly consider this: Suppose there is a FA or trade that Idz really wants. It could be QB or any other glaring need. With the extra 7 mil hit, Idz may not be able to pull the trigger on it. He is going to try to field a competetive team and adding another 7 mil to a cash strapped year when you don't need to isn't wise IMO.

 

What it really comes down to is which year can the 5 mil be better handled. Cleary this year is a mess, but there's going to be a lot more room in 2014 by all acounts I've read. So the 5 mil will be better managed in next years cap. I highly doubt this extra 5 mil is going to prevent Idz from getting the players he wants in 2014. Most likely it will prevent him from getting players he wants in 2013.

 

As far as Sanchez, yes he's not a great QB at this point and he had a horrible, horrible season last year, but think you go a little overboard. If he is so worthless and can't make any throws, we never would have won any playoff games his first 2 years or even make the playoffs for that matter. It's not just coincidence that his level of play severely dropped when replacing WR's like Braylon and J-Co with an over the hill and worthless Mason, and an out of football for 2 years Plaxico, and a extremely raw rookie in Hill. That's not even mentioning losing guys like Woody and Faneca and the severe drop off there on the line, and the huge drop off in the RB position when Greene became the starter. So to say that he is totally worthless and can't improve is going overboard IMO.

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You want to hang onto Sanchez and watch him struggle for another 7 years in case he turns into Rich Gannon?

 

Name another QB who was as crappy as Sanchez at this stage of his career - and then factor in today's officiating compared to the 1990s and earlier - who turned into a pro bowl QB.

Who says he has to stay another 7 years? Why not see what he can do with compenent offensive coaching and hopefully improved offensive talent for a year since you have to pay him anyways? Then evaluate him again after 2013 to see what you want to do. Meanwhile draft picks can learn the game. I know you don't think Sanchez can improve any, but supposed lightning strikes and he does? This would at least improve his trade compensation offers if nothing else.

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Who says he has to stay another 7 years? Why not see what he can do with compenent offensive coaching and hopefully improved offensive talent for a year since you have to pay him anyways? Then evaluate him again after 2013 to see what you want to do. Meanwhile draft picks can learn the game. I know you don't think Sanchez can improve any, but supposed lightning strikes and he does? This would at least improve his trade compensation offers if nothing else.

 

7 years is in response to Rich Gannon because that's about how long it took for him to "get it" even though he never turned the ball over 25-30x in back-to-back seasons or had twice as many turnovers as TDs over a full season.  

 

Why not see what he can do with a different coaching staff on offense? Because he will still be the same QB.  It is a waste of time and contributes to putting off a SB run with a real QB by eating up future cap space.

 

Sanchez is useless.  Actually he's worse than merely being useless.  Kellen Clemens was useless.  Sanchez is useless and super-expensive and being a former reach top-5 pick for the team means they're going to piss away season after season hoping & praying he gets what he cannot ever get.  

 

He is too stupid to learn, processes what he sees too slowly, and is too inaccurate no matter who his receivers are.  Yes that inaccuracy will be hidden better with better receivers, but he misses guys wide, wide open and this will not change with better receivers.  

 

He has no trade value unless we eat his salary first (therefore he might have some trade value if we agree to pay at least $7M of his $8.25M with our trade partner picking up the balance).  

 

He will have no trade value after this year because he's due $11.5M in new money in '14.  Even if he only reverts back to the "pretty crappy" QB he was in year 2 instead of "super crappy" he has been the past 2 years since, no one's giving up anything for the privilege of paying him that kind of coin.

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the kid from duke good  qb he is turning heads could be this year Tom B. WE CAN GET HIM IN THE 6RD SOUND FAMILIAR???

One thing is for sure, you don't need a top 10 pick to get your franchise QB.That's why I think the Jets should draft at least 1 QB every year until they get this sorted out. And not just 7th rounders like McSack. If they like one of the top QB's this year, I wouldn't be opposed to taking one in the 2nd and your guy in the 6th and cutting McSack. Let the rooks and Sanchez battle it out and hopefully the situation will get a lot better going forward.

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We disagree in several areas on this and I'll try to address each one.

 

First off, Rex knows zero about offense so when did his opinion on talent on offense start to matter? I would take anything he says about Sanchez with a grain of salt, or anyone else on O for that matter. What Idz says is what counts since he will be the one providing the talent. Idz said that there will competition at EVERY position and that no position is guaranteed at this point. That's all that matters.

 

I disagree with you on Idz fixing the cap, but lets talk about the cap in both years. If you cut Sanchez now, you take the extra 5 mil hit in this years cap, plus the cap hit on his replacement. Using you figures, lets say the replacement is a  2 mil hit. Now there's a 7 mil extra hit on this year cap (your figure for 2014). This years cap is a 100 times worse that what it will be in 2014. So taking the extra 7 mil hit this year may require cutting some other player that wouldn't be cut otherise, but more importantly consider this: Suppose there is a FA or trade that Idz really wants. It could be QB or any other glaring need. With the extra 7 mil hit, Idz may not be able to pull the trigger on it. He is going to try to field a competetive team and adding another 7 mil to a cash strapped year when you don't need to isn't wise IMO.

 

What it really comes down to is which year can the 5 mil be better handled. Cleary this year is a mess, but there's going to be a lot more room in 2014 by all acounts I've read. So the 5 mil will be better managed in next years cap. I highly doubt this extra 5 mil is going to prevent Idz from getting the players he wants in 2014. Most likely it will prevent him from getting players he wants in 2013.

 

As far as Sanchez, yes he's not a great QB at this point and he had a horrible, horrible season last year, but think you go a little overboard. If he is so worthless and can't make any throws, we never would have won any playoff games his first 2 years or even make the playoffs for that matter. It's not just coincidence that his level of play severely dropped when replacing WR's like Braylon and J-Co with an over the hill and worthless Mason, and an out of football for 2 years Plaxico, and a extremely raw rookie in Hill. That's not even mentioning losing guys like Woody and Faneca and the severe drop off there on the line, and the huge drop off in the RB position when Greene became the starter. So to say that he is totally worthless and can't improve is going overboard IMO.

 

Rex knows how to defend against offense so that is at least something.  Meanwhile the guy who "knows zero about offense" had been Sanchez's single biggest supporter.  That is, until he was forced to accept what is obvious to all but a few Jets fans who understandably wish for the impossible.

 

Idzik may try to field a competitive team, and he may even succeed in doing so.  But he isn't going to field a SB-competitive team.  Not this year.

 

And the extra cap space to get rid of Sanchez is easy.  Cut or trade Pouha.  

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For 2014, he's 100% off the cap if we cut him now.  

 

He counts $5M if we keep him and do nothing.  

 

He'll count more than $5M in '14 if we restructure his contract now to lower his '13 cap number.

Off the books in 2014 if cut now? Time to get rid of him. Idzik didn't draft Sanchez. He doesn't have any ties to him. If the Jets are truly going to rebuild you move on from Sanchez now. Take your lumps in 2013 and look towards 2014.

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You want to hang onto Sanchez and watch him struggle for another 7 years in case he turns into Rich Gannon?

 

Name another QB who was as crappy as Sanchez at this stage of his career - and then factor in today's officiating compared to the 1990s and earlier - who turned into a pro bowl QB.

 

Vinny Testaverde.

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Rex knows how to defend against offense so that is at least something.  Meanwhile the guy who "knows zero about offense" had been Sanchez's single biggest supporter.  That is, until he was forced to accept what is obvious to all but a few Jets fans who understandably wish for the impossible.

 

Idzik may try to field a competitive team, and he may even succeed in doing so.  But he isn't going to field a SB-competitive team.  Not this year.

 

And the extra cap space to get rid of Sanchez is easy.  Cut or trade Pouha.

Just because Rex knows how to defend against offense doesn't mean he knows offensive talent. He knows offensive schemes, not who makes a good QB prospect. In fact Rex pumps all of his players. Remember him saying the Ghost was going to be a great player. That's why you have to take anything he says about talent with a grain of salt. Also, anyone with half a brain knows that Sanchez needs to win his job against legit competition. That doesn't mean Rex thinks Sanchez is worthless as you put it. Also, I can't speak for others but I'm not wishing for the impossible. I'm simply stating that we should get what we can out of him while we're paying for him anyway. If he turns the corner even better, but why not give him the chance since the money is spent?

 

Glad to hear you know this. Can you give me the powerball numbers? Yes, it's not likely but never say never.

 

Cutting a player or similar move can also be done in 2014 to deal with the 5 mil that you are so up in arms about that you're proposing in 2013 with Pouha, except there will be a lot more cap room to operate with than in 2013.

Edited by billo83

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the kid from duke good qb he is turning heads could be this year Tom B. WE CAN GET HIM IN THE 6RD SOUND FAMILIAR???

This does sound familiar. My uncle made the same guttural noises during his last seizure.

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This does sound familiar. My uncle made the same guttural noises during his last seizure.

Hah I am going to the bank - we are going to get a all pro QB in the sixth round this draft.

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7 years is in response to Rich Gannon because that's about how long it took for him to "get it" even though he never turned the ball over 25-30x in back-to-back seasons or had twice as many turnovers as TDs over a full season.  

 

Why not see what he can do with a different coaching staff on offense? Because he will still be the same QB.  It is a waste of time and contributes to putting off a SB run with a real QB by eating up future cap space.

 

Sanchez is useless.  Actually he's worse than merely being useless.  Kellen Clemens was useless.  Sanchez is useless and super-expensive and being a former reach top-5 pick for the team means they're going to piss away season after season hoping & praying he gets what he cannot ever get.  

 

He is too stupid to learn, processes what he sees too slowly, and is too inaccurate no matter who his receivers are.  Yes that inaccuracy will be hidden better with better receivers, but he misses guys wide, wide open and this will not change with better receivers.  

 

He has no trade value unless we eat his salary first (therefore he might have some trade value if we agree to pay at least $7M of his $8.25M with our trade partner picking up the balance).  

 

He will have no trade value after this year because he's due $11.5M in new money in '14.  Even if he only reverts back to the "pretty crappy" QB he was in year 2 instead of "super crappy" he has been the past 2 years since, no one's giving up anything for the privilege of paying him that kind of coin.

As another poster said VT is a good example of someone turning it around after sucking real bad early in their career.

 

A few things on Sanchez: right now he is a bust at #5 but he wasn't a 'reach". Several of the so called gurus had him as a top 5 pick.

 

Sanchez in not useless. There's no doubt he would have several teams interested in signing him if he were outright cut. I'm not saying Sanchez is great, but he's not useless as you are saying.

 

The bolded is what I have the biggest issue with. First off you said 2013 is going to be a disaster anyway, what difference does it make if he's on the roster this year? It's not like the Jets are getting a top 10 QB they will be holding back. As far as the cap space for 2014, you can do the same type of thing you proposed for 2013. There's going to be a lot more cap space in 2014 and any capologist worth his salt will be able to manage it and prevent the cap hit from doing what they want to do. IMO you are comparing the 2014 cap as if it were the 2013 cap, which will not be close to the case.

 

As far as pissing away the season, how so? I fully expect Idz to draft at least one QB if not 2 and sign at least one veteren. I fully expect that Sanchez will have to win the job in an open competition. So if he wins a fair and square competition, how is it pissing away the season? If he doesn't win the starting job, then he's the backup and at least you're getting something for your money. If they keep him after 2013 he will again have the win the job.

 

Finally, Idz does not have any loyalty to Sanchez. If he's not performing, then Idz will get rid of him in 2014.

 

 

 

Edited by billo83

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I don't think Mark is unfixable, but I don't think he's fixable here. He won't step foot on the Metlife turf again without hearing boos, and he's way too rabbit-eared to block it out. I maintain that Mark should willingly find his way onto a better team like San Francisco, Baltimore, Atlanta, etc, where he can hide on the bench for two years and re-learn how to play football.

The 2013 season is over unless Idz has an all-time great draft that yields both a pass rusher and a quarterback. Otherwise, it's a transition year that will end with Rex getting fired, Sanchez getting dumped, and a new coach coming in with a broom.

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I don't think Mark is unfixable, but I don't think he's fixable here. He won't step foot on the Metlife turf again without hearing boos, and he's way too rabbit-eared to block it out. I maintain that Mark should willingly find his way onto a better team like San FranciI sco, Baltimore, Atlanta, etc, where he can hide on the bench for two years and re-learn how to play football.

The 2013 season is over unless Idz has an all-time great draft that yields both a pass rusher and a quarterback. Otherwise, it's a transition year that will end with Rex getting fired, Sanchez getting dumped, and a new coach coming in with a broom.

 

I agree with the bolded and it's debatable if it can be done here. The boos will go away if he's playing well, and of course that's a big if. He's not going anywhere next season unless he agrees to a restrcuture which isn't happening and I don't see Idz cutting him this season. 

 

The big thing to see if he has matured. He knows his career is on the line next season with a new GM with no ties to him, and his cuttability in 2014. I think Sanchez loves New York, so I think/hope he is doing everything he can to mature. Sometimes a person does their best when their back is against the wall. That's another reason why I think they should not cut him this year and give him this last chance, especially since you're paying him regardless. Lets hope Sanchez is one of those that does his best work when his back is against the wall.

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Shoot for the stars.

 

Well first and foremost you have to lose for a little, fire everyone, and get it done The Right Way first. Can't just go out there aiming at stars all willy nilly n sh*t...That's scary. 

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Well first and foremost you have to lose for a little, fire everyone, and get it done The Right Way first. Can't just go out there aiming at stars all willy nilly n sh*t...That's scary. 

 

Firing people doesn't make the team better!

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I agree with the bolded and it's debatable if it can be done here. The boos will go away if he's playing well, and of course that's a big if. He's not going anywhere next season unless he agrees to a restrcuture which isn't happening and I don't see Idz cutting him this season.

The big thing to see if he has matured. He knows his career is on the line next season with a new GM with no ties to him, and his cuttability in 2014. I think Sanchez loves New York, so I think/hope he is doing everything he can to mature. Sometimes a person does their best when their back is against the wall. That's another reason why I think they should not cut him this year and give him this last chance, especially since you're paying him regardless. Lets hope Sanchez is one of those that does his best work when his back is against the wall.

Sanchez has had his back to the wall for two years in a row and he's imploded. He's a bad bet.

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Sanchez has had his back to the wall for two years in a row and he's imploded. He's a bad bet.

Disagree with that. 2 years ago he had a fossil as a backup & last year he got the absurd extension. He wasn't worried about losing his job a bit. After next season, that job security goes away

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I just posted about how a compentent capologist should be able to handle the 2014 charge and minimize the effect. IMO this isn't going to be a 4-6 win team. Rex's D alone should get you 5-6 wins. We had zero offense this year with a rash of injuires, 2 incompenent coaches in Cavanaugh and Sporano, a starting RT with very little experience, Sanchez worst season as a pro, and ultimateli a JV level WR corps. There really is nowhere to go but up on offense. I like the Marty hiring and he is a proven OC. I also have faith that Idz will improve the roster on O depsite the cap situation.

 

I didn't mean to infer that anyone hates Sanchez personally. I realize a big part of that is the stupid contract Tanny gave him, and can cause great anger. I hated O'brien his last few years and wanted him gone much sooner than they got rid of him, but the cap situation of course was different then.

 

As far as new QB's go, I'm in the camp of letting them learn for a season ot two before throwing them into the fire. If Sanchez is bad as you say, at least they can learn from his mistakes.

The fallacy of this is opposing offenses knew this was a terrible Jets offense. Statistically the Jets defense looks better than it is because teams were content to bide their time and wait untill Nacho Sheetbox either screwed up or simply kept going 3 and out. You don't have to go crazy throwing at  Kyle Wilson if the Jets offense cannot score more than 10 points most games. And Wrecks based on his touting the Jets' pass defense as wonderful is basically a desperate man grasping at one straw isolated from the thatched hut full of crappy straws that looks kinda okay only by comparison. It's an anomaly. And if you go fishing for a stat that makes you look good sooner rather than alter you'll find one.

 

ANd this is especiallly true with football stats. What your team does well or poorly exxagerates it's opposite statistic. Historically there are a lot of winning teams who had great running games, but that wasn't necessarily because they blew you off the ball all game. Rather better teams got in front and then ran out the clock by running late in the game. Joe Theissmann made a a carreer out of confusing an outcome of winning causation. Team X didn't win because they ran 30+ times, that was  a result of tryring to end the game late. Also, there are a lot of losing QBs who threw for 300 and even 400 yards because they were behind.

 

Nobody who played the 2013 Jets was desperate to overcome a 10-14 point Jets' lead in the 4th quarter. In fact most teams were ahead late in the game. SO they ran the ball.Ergo, the Jets' pass defense looks kinda good ebcause there was no urgency to throw against them.

Edited by Bugg

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One thing is for sure, you don't need a top 10 pick to get your franchise QB.That's why I think the Jets should draft at least 1 QB every year until they get this sorted out. And not just 7th rounders like McSack. If they like one of the top QB's this year, I wouldn't be opposed to taking one in the 2nd and your guy in the 6th and cutting McSack. Let the rooks and Sanchez battle it out and hopefully the situation will get a lot better going forward.

yes im with you in the one,but i think a good Olinemen will fall to the 2nd, then go QB

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