Free Agency News & Rumors

[Sperm Edwards]

Are the Jets going to have a FB this season?  I can't remember if Mornhinweg used them much.  I know they had Weaver and Owen Schmitt, but will he want one here?  They already signed tweener Hilliard and have used Reuland in that role the way the Eagles sometimes used Cellek.  I was thinking a pass catching FB would be a nice addition.  Brian Leonard came to mind, but that is just cause I am a Rutgers guy.  He didn't do much, especially lately but he is a FA.

 

I'd also be willing to bet that if the compensatory rules are the way we think, the Jets are more careful to sign guys that are cut rather than expired contracts.  It makes sense to maximize compensatory picks when so many are poised to make the team.  That is a reason not to sign guys like Yeremiah Bell who they might have wanted back.

 

I don't know Bell would net a compensatory pick anyway with the puny contract he got.  Even if we could have gotten one, Bell's 2014 pay (or overall contract size) is nowhere near:

1. Landry
2. Keller
3. DeVito
4. Greene

Think that's it for our 2014 comp picks.  Re-signing Bell would only cancel out the pick we'd get for losing Bell (in other words it wouldn't cancel out any of the above 4).  But we're not getting a pick for losing Bell anyway.

 

Agree it's possible that we're only signing guys who have been cut (street FAs as opposed to unrestricted FAs) so we don't lose any of those picks.  So far it's consistent with what we've done.

 

Also possible we didn't re-sign Bell so the Greene pick wouldn't get tossed away for signing another UFA of Bell's level.  That player would cancel out with Bell instead so our net FA loss is still the above 4 players.  Hard to know for sure.  But it does seem we're being wary of signing true UFAs so far.

 

We did sign Goodson who I think was an UFA though.  He might cancel out Greene.  Or the net loss of Greene + Bell with the acquisition of Goodson they may just say nets us a 7th (which has no value other than getting a first jump on an UDFA).  Possible that Goodson's acquisition is canceled out by the loss of Bell, and we still get a 6th for Greene, but I wouldn't bet money on it.

[slats]

You guys are ****sticks. Did the starters they lost suck? Yes. But they're replacing them with--hold on to your hats--players who are worse than the ones who are leaving. I'm not bitching or complaining. I like it. I like that he's taking the team back to zero and starting over. I like that he's subverting Rex and giving him table scraps to chew on. And what I'll enjoy most this season is when the Jets are 2-9 and you two (and your ilk) are posting about how you knew it was the plan all along to suck and start over in 2014, because you're revisionist hard-ons with convenient short-term memory loss issues.

  

WTF are you talking about? No one expected the Jets to go all in to win this year. Everyone knew it would be a difficult season with Sanchez' contract, and a new GM and OC. Even the allegedly subverted Rex understood that the money just isn't there this year because it was spent foolishly already.

You gave up a mil per for Garay, Garrard, and Colon, so you're down to $12 mil. Depending on how Goodson's contract is, you could lose another $2 mil, and if you trade Revis, that's another $2.5 cap hit. Then you need ~$5 mil to sign your draft class. So you have about $3 mil to sign about six starters. Now, is it possible to come up with six starters in the draft? Sure, if you have an historically amazing draft. FINGERS CROSSED BRAH.

Did the Jets lose any good starters? Does going from Keller to Cumberland drop the offense from #32 to the JV? Is there a drop off from Greene to Powell? Is Ducasse really that much worse than Slausson (who may come back, anyway?).

And on defense, OMG, the Jets need to replace two safeties they signed to one year deals last year! Maybe one or two of the safeties they drafted last year can step up? Or no chance? And Bart Scott! You don't think Davis will be an upgrade over Scott? I do.

And yeah, they'll probably draft some players, too.

Everyone saw this as a transition year, inside and outside the organization. I have no ******* idea what you think you're claiming to know that no one else already knew.

The Ape is pwning you in this thread. The Ape.

[Integrity28]

  

The Ape is pwning you in this thread. The Ape.

 

Watch it there, bub...

 

 

FYI, I pwn Tomshane routinely.

[jack48]

You gave up a mil per for Garay, Garrard, and Colon, so you're down to $12 mil. Depending on how Goodson's contract is, you could lose another $2 mil, and if you trade Revis, that's another $2.5 cap hit. Then you need ~$5 mil to sign your draft class. So you have about $3 mil to sign about six starters. Now, is it possible to come up with six starters in the draft? Sure, if you have an historically amazing draft. FINGERS CROSSED BRAH.

Those clowns are probably going to have to start.  Did Mangold restructure?  What about Kolb?  They must have something else uptheir sleeve. 

[jack48]

You gave up a mil per for Garay, Garrard, and Colon, so you're down to $12 mil. Depending on how Goodson's contract is, you could lose another $2 mil, and if you trade Revis, that's another $2.5 cap hit. Then you need ~$5 mil to sign your draft class. So you have about $3 mil to sign about six starters. Now, is it possible to come up with six starters in the draft? Sure, if you have an historically amazing draft. FINGERS CROSSED BRAH.

 

How is it 6 starters?.  I see that Cro and Wilson are starters.  Maybe one of the young safeties starts.  Anyone is an upgrade on Eric Smith.   Ellis Coples and Wilkerson.  McIntyre, Davis and Harris.  On offense Colon is a starter.   We need another starting guard.  All other postitions taken.  Where are the 6 starters?  Plus, if Revis brings in a high  draft pick, then we have a better chance of adding starters.  We draft a decent guard he will not have to watch from the sidelines to start at guard.  So I think they can draft a LB (no. 1), a guard (3 or 4)  and a safety (2 or 3) who could possibly start.  That would leave some money for whatever--de[pth, QB or wideout.  I hope they don;t draft Geno, unless they get another 1 for Revis.  But he will probably be gone late first. Now I am not saying these guys are great or better.  Just that we may have some money to do a little more.

[jack48]

I don't know Bell would net a compensatory pick anyway with the puny contract he got.  Even if we could have gotten one, Bell's 2014 pay (or overall contract size) is nowhere near:

1. Landry
2. Keller
3. DeVito
4. Greene

Think that's it for our 2014 comp picks.  Re-signing Bell would only cancel out the pick we'd get for losing Bell (in other words it wouldn't cancel out any of the above 4).  But we're not getting a pick for losing Bell anyway.

 

Agree it's possible that we're only signing guys who have been cut (street FAs as opposed to unrestricted FAs) so we don't lose any of those picks.  So far it's consistent with what we've done.

 

Also possible we didn't re-sign Bell so the Greene pick wouldn't get tossed away for signing another UFA of Bell's level.  That player would cancel out with Bell instead so our net FA loss is still the above 4 players.  Hard to know for sure.  But it does seem we're being wary of signing true UFAs so far.

 

We did sign Goodson who I think was an UFA though.  He might cancel out Greene.  Or the net loss of Greene + Bell with the acquisition of Goodson they may just say nets us a 7th (which has no value other than getting a first jump on an UDFA).  Possible that Goodson's acquisition is canceled out by the loss of Bell, and we still get a 6th for Greene, but I wouldn't bet money on it.

 

You are making my head hurt

[T0mShane]

WTF are you talking about? No one expected the Jets to go all in to win this year. Everyone knew it would be a difficult season with Sanchez' contract, and a new GM and OC. Even the allegedly subverted Rex understood that the money just isn't there this year because it was spent foolishly already.

Did the Jets lose any good starters? Does going from Keller to Cumberland drop the offense from #32 to the JV? Is there a drop off from Greene to Powell? Is Ducasse really that much worse than Slausson (who may come back, anyway?).

And on defense, OMG, the Jets need to replace two safeties they signed to one year deals last year! Maybe one or two of the safeties they drafted last year can step up? Or no chance? And Bart Scott! You don't think Davis will be an upgrade over Scott? I do.

And yeah, they'll probably draft some players, too.

Everyone saw this as a transition year, inside and outside the organization. I have no ******* idea what you think you're claiming to know that no one else already knew.

The Ape is pwning you in this thread. The Ape.

It's no surprise that you'd come to the defense of your little mafia-LARP buddy. You guys are difficult to debate because you keep moving the target. You say, "The Jets can be competitive," without applying any parameters to define "competitive." Henceforth, I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that by "difficult season," you mean they'll go a gritty 6-10. My position, which I've held and clearly--repeatedly-- explained, is that Idzik is consciously, willingly, pre-conceivedly using 2013 to completely reset the organization and, as a consequence, end Rex Ryan. To date, he has shown nothing to make me change that position. As I've repeatedly asked you fine folks, what would have to happen between 3/15/2013 and Week One to turn this roster into a "competitive" (READ: 8-8 or better) team? It's fine and well to play the "Idzik is having secret thoughts and secret plans that we're not privy to" card. But, in the interest of an off-season message board exercise, maybe you fellas could stop ambiguously referring to vague. ephemeral ideals and attempt to counter my claim without resorting to saying "no, no, that's silly." Because I'm pretty confident that 2013 is set to be apocalyptic (<5 wins) on the field, and there will be a full-on purge as soon as it ends.

Now, you go.

[Integrity28]

It's no surprise that you'd come to the defense of your little mafia-LARP buddy. You guys are difficult to debate because you keep moving the target. You say, "The Jets can be competitive," without applying any parameters to define "competitive." Henceforth, I'm just gonna go ahead and assume that by "difficult season," you mean they'll go a gritty 6-10. My position, which I've held and clearly--repeatedly-- explained, is that Idzik is consciously, willingly, pre-conceivedly using 2013 to completely reset the organization and, as a consequence, end Rex Ryan. To date, he has shown nothing to make me change that position. As I've repeatedly asked you fine folks, what would have to happen between 3/15/2013 and Week One to turn this roster into a "competitive" (READ: 8-8 or better) team? It's fine and well to play the "Idzik is having secret thoughts and secret plans that we're not privy to" card. But, in the interest of an off-season message board exercise, maybe you fellas could stop ambiguously referring to vague. ephemeral ideals and attempt to counter my claim without resorting to saying "no, no, that's silly." Because I'm pretty confident that 2013 is set to be apocalyptic (<5 wins) on the field, and there will be a full-on purge as soon as it ends.

Now, you go.

 

 

It is a widely known fact that Slats hates me.

 

We are difficult to debate because we are intelligent. Not because we "keep moving the target". That tactic is more up Gato's alley, and right now even he is making more sense than you.

 

I agree with you that there are a lot of holes to fill, but the reality is, we didn't lose a lot of talent. Scott? Devito? Slauson? The only impressive player we lost was Landry, imo. We see year after year that youth can translate to immediate turnaround, especially when the guys the youth replace weren't getting it done. It's not like we are the Ravens and just won the SB and lost half our starters. If Izdik continues to make smart moves in FA, and hits on a couple positions in the draft, and most importantly the QB play is average. It is very feasible that we could land between 6-9 wins, depending on schedule, luck, and whatnot. 

 

Nothing about the NFL is predictable except Jets fans whining, and Pats fans not knowing anything about their team from before 2001. 

 

So you'll excuse me if I don't acquiesce into the mindset of throwing the season away because we didn't approach free agency like the Dolphins.

[slats]

IMy position, which I've held and clearly--repeatedly-- explained, is that Idzik is consciously, willingly, pre-conceivedly using 2013 to completely reset the organization and, as a consequence, end Rex Ryan. To date, he has shown nothing to make me change that position.

My position is that you're projecting your wishful thinking onto reality.

None of the team's moves or non-moves are surprising to me at all, and none of them spell the end of Rex Ryan. In fact, I've actually been surprised by some of the moves Idzik has made to create cap room in 2013. Things like Cromartie's restructure, which I really didn't expect.

Moves that would support your claim would be eating Sanchez' or Holmes' contract. They're not doing things like that.

And I expect 5/6 wins this year, too.

[T0mShane]

I'm posting this from my new iphone4. Do I look cooler?

[JADEDGREEN]

I'm posting this from my new iphone4. Do I look cooler?

 

 

The Ape Yo!

 

[#27TheDominator]

I don't know Bell would net a compensatory pick anyway with the puny contract he got.  Even if we could have gotten one, Bell's 2014 pay (or overall contract size) is nowhere near:

1. Landry
2. Keller
3. DeVito
4. Greene

Think that's it for our 2014 comp picks.  Re-signing Bell would only cancel out the pick we'd get for losing Bell (in other words it wouldn't cancel out any of the above 4).  But we're not getting a pick for losing Bell anyway.

 

Agree it's possible that we're only signing guys who have been cut (street FAs as opposed to unrestricted FAs) so we don't lose any of those picks.  So far it's consistent with what we've done.

 

Also possible we didn't re-sign Bell so the Greene pick wouldn't get tossed away for signing another UFA of Bell's level.  That player would cancel out with Bell instead so our net FA loss is still the above 4 players.  Hard to know for sure.  But it does seem we're being wary of signing true UFAs so far.

 

We did sign Goodson who I think was an UFA though.  He might cancel out Greene.  Or the net loss of Greene + Bell with the acquisition of Goodson they may just say nets us a 7th (which has no value other than getting a first jump on an UDFA).  Possible that Goodson's acquisition is canceled out by the loss of Bell, and we still get a 6th for Greene, but I wouldn't bet money on it.

 

I am not sure that they consciously do it, but I think they do at the start of the FA period.  I think the team likes to start off from the idea of maximizing comp picks.  Especially a team in the Jets position.  That might not preclude them from signing guys like Bell, but I think it makes them wait on signing them until they get a clearer picture on who they are losing and who they are gaining so that they can determine if it will have be a factor in comp picks.  Of course, I don' tknow the new rules so I could be talking out of my ass.

 

I'm posting this from my new iphone4. Do I look cooler?

 

That depends. Does the color match your blouse?

[T0mShane]

As to the above, we're not arguing anything but Idzik's intent. We all agree that the '13 season will be tough, and we are all hoping that it's used to find diamonds in the rough/young players that will pay dividends in 2014 and beyond. Where we seem to differ is over the degree to which Idzik is laying import towards wins and losses in 2013. I'm comfortable saying "zero." Old, broken down vets on one year deals speaks to that, IMO. And if you think Rex is surviving a 5-11 season, I think that's insane.

[slats]

Where we seem to differ is over the degree to which Idzik is laying import towards wins and losses in 2013. I'm comfortable saying "zero." Old, broken down vets on one year deals speaks to that, IMO.

No, that's not where we differ. Not really. I wouldn't say "zero," but I would say it's not nearly as important as building for the future.

And if you think Rex is surviving a 5-11 season, I think that's insane.

This is where we differ. I don't believe that Idzik is going to judge Rex on strictly wins and losses, especially when he understands the level of talent that Rex has to work with. That doesn't mean I expect Rex back in 2014, either, it's just that I don't think Idzik has already made up his mind. If Idzik fired Rex and brought in his own coach this year, I don't think the free agency moves would much -if any- different than what we've seen so far. Which is why I don't think they're in any way indicative of Rex's fate.

[Integrity28]

The Ape Yo!

 

 

 

I've got an Android phone, don't drag me into this you mo-mo.

[SouthernJet]

No, that's not where we differ. Not really. I wouldn't say "zero," but I would say it's not nearly as important as building for the future.

This is where we differ. I don't believe that Idzik is going to judge Rex on strictly wins and losses, especially when he understands the level of talent that Rex has to work with. That doesn't mean I expect Rex back in 2014, either, it's just that I don't think Idzik has already made up his mind. If Idzik fired Rex and brought in his own coach this year, I don't think the free agency moves would much -if any- different than what we've seen so far. Which is why I don't think they're in any way indicative of Rex's fate.

Idzik isnt a 'I have my guys' GM IMO.

His IBM training will kick in and he will say 'GULP' if Rex is best guy for HC in 2014 even if he's not his 'cup of tea'. Procure best talent and then manage it. Idzik is a Manager.

[#27TheDominator]

Actually, I agree with Shane that Idzik may well have made up his mind on Rex.  I just don't think we have any idea.  Where we disagree is that any of these moves show any insight into his motive. These are exactly the moves that any GM would make.  Nobody is crazy enough to think that they were going to redo everybody's contract and load up to go all in for 2013.  That wasn't Tannenbaum's plan and it wouldn't be mine and we like Rex. 

[JADEDGREEN]

I've got an Android phone, don't drag me into this you mo-mo.

 

Me to:

[slats]

Actually, I agree with Shane that Idzik may well have made up his mind on Rex.  I just don't think we have any idea.  Where we disagree is that any of these moves show any insight into his motive. These are exactly the moves that any GM would make.  Nobody is crazy enough to think that they were going to redo everybody's contract and load up to go all in for 2013.  That wasn't Tannenbaum's plan and it wouldn't be mine and we like Rex. 

Idzik may not like Rex, but it would be foolish to not spend the year doing a thorough and fair evaluation of the guy. And then to retain him if Rex somehow wins him over.

[T0mShane]

This is a good discussion.

 

 

It's going to be difficult for me to reconcile the idea of Rex keeping his job in 2014 if the expected happens, which would be a 5-11, 6-10 type season. My disconnect herein is that, in order to stem the tide a bit to avoid a sub-.500 season, there would have to be an effort to at least pad the roster with Brandon Gibson-level FA's to give Rex something to work with, but Idzik is seemingly content to let those guys walk if they look for more than he's willing to pay, which is awesome. To recap: I don't believe there exists a scenario by which Rex keeps his job after a bad season, that there is not going to be enough illusory evidence for Idzik to see to change what is already known, and that Rex will need to have a miracle season (8-8+) to stay on. That he'll seemingly have to do it by getting big seasons out of guys like Willie Colon, Vlad Ducasse, Antonio Garay and Josh Bush makes that possibility seem ever more far-fetched.

 

But, we'll see how it goes. If Kevin Kolb, Victor Butler, Osi, etc end up being signed over the next two weeks, we'll re-evaluate.

[unbanmadmike1]

This is a good discussion.

 

 

It's going to be difficult for me to reconcile the idea of Rex keeping his job in 2014 if the expected happens, which would be a 5-11, 6-10 type season. My disconnect herein is that, in order to stem the tide a bit to avoid a sub-.500 season, there would have to be an effort to at least pad the roster with Brandon Gibson-level FA's to give Rex something to work with, but Idzik is seemingly content to let those guys walk if they look for more than he's willing to pay, which is awesome. To recap: I don't believe there exists a scenario by which Rex keeps his job after a bad season, that there is not going to be enough illusory evidence for Idzik to see to change what is already known, and that Rex will need to have a miracle season (8-8+) to stay on. That he'll seemingly have to do it by getting big seasons out of guys like Willie Colon, Vlad Ducasse, Antonio Garay and Josh Bush makes that possibility seem ever more far-fetched.

 

But, we'll see how it goes. If Kevin Kolb, Victor Butler, Osi, etc end up being signed over the next two weeks, we'll re-evaluate.

 

 

Please no

[#27TheDominator]

This is a good discussion.

 

 

It's going to be difficult for me to reconcile the idea of Rex keeping his job in 2014 if the expected happens, which would be a 5-11, 6-10 type season. My disconnect herein is that, in order to stem the tide a bit to avoid a sub-.500 season, there would have to be an effort to at least pad the roster with Brandon Gibson-level FA's to give Rex something to work with, but Idzik is seemingly content to let those guys walk if they look for more than he's willing to pay, which is awesome. To recap: I don't believe there exists a scenario by which Rex keeps his job after a bad season, that there is not going to be enough illusory evidence for Idzik to see to change what is already known, and that Rex will need to have a miracle season (8-8+) to stay on. That he'll seemingly have to do it by getting big seasons out of guys like Willie Colon, Vlad Ducasse, Antonio Garay and Josh Bush makes that possibility seem ever more far-fetched.

 

But, we'll see how it goes. If Kevin Kolb, Victor Butler, Osi, etc end up being signed over the next two weeks, we'll re-evaluate.

 

I would like to remind you that Mangini went 10-6 with a similar roster in 2006.  Unlikely?  Sure.  Miracle? Nah.  Worth it just to **** with you and Mad Mike.

[JADEDGREEN]

If we go 5-11/6-10 and Rex wins Idzik over, than Idzik is a fool.

[T0mShane]

I would like to remind you that Mangini went 10-6 with a similar roster in 2006.  Unlikely?  Sure.  Miracle? Nah.  Worth it just to **** with you and Mad Mike.

 

 

I'm a big Jets fan. I root for wins. WINS.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm a big Jets fan. I root for wins. WINS.

 

Honest Question.  If Rex goes 10-6 with a sh*tty roster due to luck - like Mangini in 2006 - which coach do you think would have had a better chance to go all the way?  I know that being better than Mangini is nothing to write home about or a reason to keep the guy around, but IMO Rex is more wild card.  I don't think he's "lost it" the way you and Dierking do, but that is an understandable idea. 

[T0mShane]

Honest Question. If Rex goes 10-6 with a sh*tty roster due to luck - like Mangini in 2006 - which coach do you think would have had a better chance to go all the way? I know that being better than Mangini is nothing to write home about or a reason to keep the guy around, but IMO Rex is more wild card. I don't think he's "lost it" the way you and Dierking do, but that is an understandable idea.

This is the Rex conundrum. If I need a coach to lead my team through a single playoff run, I'd take Rex over any Jets coach not named Weeb or Parcells. He can scheme defenses and motivate over a short haul with the best of them. But, if I needed a coach to work with a young roster and lead it on a three or four year title run, I'm not going anywhere near Rex. Player's coaches do well in the short-term, but always lose their player's attention over time because a lack of discipline leads to diminishing returns.

[JADEDGREEN]

This is the Rex conundrum. If I need a coach to lead my team through a single playoff run, I'd take Rex over any Jets coach not named Weeb or Parcells. He can scheme defenses and motivate over a short haul with the best of them. But, if I needed a coach to work with a young roster and lead it on a three or four year title run, I'm not going anywhere near Rex. Player's coaches do well in the short-term, but always lose their player's attention over time because a lack of discipline leads to diminishing returns.

+1

I feel dirty.

[#27TheDominator]

This is the Rex conundrum. If I need a coach to lead my team through a single playoff run, I'd take Rex over any Jets coach not named Weeb or Parcells. He can scheme defenses and motivate over a short haul with the best of them. But, if I needed a coach to work with a young roster and lead it on a three or four year title run, I'm not going anywhere near Rex. Player's coaches do well in the short-term, but always lose their player's attention over time because a lack of discipline leads to diminishing returns.

 

Well the real debate is right there.  You think he is short term and now we are reaping diminishing returns.  I think it's just as possible that the team overachieved and lost pieces and Sanchez couldn't pick up the slack.  Sometimes the players coach (Bob Lemon) overachieves with somebody else's team, but sometimes a coach is stuck with a team that isn't his and when you are winning it is tough to redo the roster.  Based on what Rex says you'd be right (loved Schott, loved Sanchez, loved Sparano) but I don't believe what he says.  He says he loves everybody on his team and I think at least some of that was foisted on him.  Tebow for sure.  Having a sh*t roster may play to his strengths - us against the world mentality.   We will see, but 5-10 is far from the ceiling IMO

[#27TheDominator]

+1

I feel dirty.

 

 

You are.

[JADEDGREEN]

You are.

Shush yo!

[#27TheDominator]

Idzik may not like Rex, but it would be foolish to not spend the year doing a thorough and fair evaluation of the guy. And then to retain him if Rex somehow wins him over.

 

 

A Jets GM?  Foolish? Never. Who could imagine such a thing?

[JADEDGREEN]

Well the real debate is right there. You think he is short term and now we are reaping diminishing returns. I think it's just as possible that the team overachieved and lost pieces and Sanchez couldn't pick up the slack. Sometimes the players coach (Bob Lemon) overachieves with somebody else's team, but sometimes a coach is stuck with a team that isn't his and when you are winning it is tough to redo the roster. Based on what Rex says you'd be right (loved Schott, loved Sanchez, loved Sparano) but I don't believe what he says. He says he loves everybody on his team and I think at least some of that was foisted on him. Tebow for sure. Having a sh*t roster may play to his strengths - us against the world mentality. We will see, but 5-10 is far from the ceiling IMO

He said Sparano was just like him, he was definitely foisted.

[SenorGato]

Well the real debate is right there. You think he is short term and now we are reaping diminishing returns. I think it's just as possible that the team overachieved and lost pieces and Sanchez couldn't pick up the slack. Sometimes the players coach (Bob Lemon) overachieves with somebody else's team, but sometimes a coach is stuck with a team that isn't his and when you are winning it is tough to redo the roster. Based on what Rex says you'd be right (loved Schott, loved Sanchez, loved Sparano) but I don't believe what he says. He says he loves everybody on his team and I think at least some of that was foisted on him. Tebow for sure. Having a sh*t roster may play to his strengths - us against the world mentality. We will see, but 5-10 is far from the ceiling IMO

You're pretty much nailing my thoughts on Ryan here. Figured i would say it since I keep repping it anyway. The part about Sanchez failing to pick up the slack is something I've been saying for at least a couple years now, and is by far the dominant reason why this team's past two seasons went like they went.

I don't think Ryan fell off a cliff. I think the best parts of the roster got old - the LBers in '09 were the best group in the NFL while the same group in 2012 just did not have the speed - and the Savior position that is QB failed to cover despite the many attempts to make it easy for him. A lot of blame for poor Sanchez, sure, but if he was any good he would be on top of the world. Works both ways, especially when the passing portion of the offense is what has dragged this team's records down.

[#27TheDominator]

You're pretty much nailing my thoughts on Ryan here. Figured i would say it since I keep repping it anyway. The part about Sanchez failing to pick up the slack is something I've been saying for at least a couple years now, and is by far the dominant reason why this team's past two seasons went like they went.

I don't think Ryan fell off a cliff. I think the best parts of the roster got old - the LBers in '09 were the best group in the NFL while the same group in 2012 just did not have the speed - and the Savior position that is QB failed to cover despite the many attempts to make it easy for him. A lot of blame for poor Sanchez, sure, but if he was any good he would be on top of the world. Works both ways, especially when the passing portion of the offense is what has dragged this team's records down.

 

 

Right.  There is just as good a chance they are right though. 

 

First, even though, like Slats we all hope that Idzik has an open mind and takes what is good and heaves what is bad, Idzik may have his own plan and it might not include Rex.

 

Second, there are some signs that they are right.  Rex crying and seeming like he has no answer after losses.  The strange handling of the QBs in 2012.  The way the team didn't win near the end of the last two seasons.  The defense regressing 3 years in a row. 

 

I still like him and have hope and I am not the most optimistic dude.

[jack48]

Well the real debate is right there.  You think he is short term and now we are reaping diminishing returns.  I think it's just as possible that the team overachieved and lost pieces and Sanchez couldn't pick up the slack.  Sometimes the players coach (Bob Lemon) overachieves with somebody else's team, but sometimes a coach is stuck with a team that isn't his and when you are winning it is tough to redo the roster.  Based on what Rex says you'd be right (loved Schott, loved Sanchez, loved Sparano) but I don't believe what he says.  He says he loves everybody on his team and I think at least some of that was foisted on him.  Tebow for sure.  Having a sh*t roster may play to his strengths - us against the world mentality.   We will see, but 5-10 is far from the ceiling IMO

 

I don't believe anything Rex says anymore.  But that does not mean that I don't think he can coach---defense.  He just is not the whole package.  He got by for a few years but you have to be more than just a defensive guy--and I think he has to show Idzik that or he hits the bricks.