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[JADEDGREEN]

You're pretty much nailing my thoughts on Ryan here. Figured i would say it since I keep repping it anyway. The part about Sanchez failing to pick up the slack is something I've been saying for at least a couple years now, and is by far the dominant reason why this team's past two seasons went like they went.

I don't think Ryan fell off a cliff. I think the best parts of the roster got old - the LBers in '09 were the best group in the NFL while the same group in 2012 just did not have the speed - and the Savior position that is QB failed to cover despite the many attempts to make it easy for him. A lot of blame for poor Sanchez, sure, but if he was any good he would be on top of the world. Works both ways, especially when the passing portion of the offense is what has dragged this team's records down.

Sure there is allot of truth to that, but how did Rex address and adjust to it?

[#27TheDominator]

I don't believe anything Rex says anymore.  But that does not mean that I don't think he can coach---defense.  He just is not the whole package.  He got by for a few years but you have to be more than just a defensive guy--and I think he has to show Idzik that or he hits the bricks.

 

I never believed anything he said. I don't see why anybody did.  More importantly, I don't see why people that complained that he talked too much are so upset that maybe he didn't believe everything he said.  He is a coach. Somethings are said to influence the players or other teams.  I also agree that he hasn't shown he can be the total package, though I am not completely sure he has been given a fair opportunity.

[jack48]

I never believed anything he said. I don't see why anybody did.  More importantly, I don't see why people that complained that he talked too much are so upset that maybe he didn't believe everything he said.  He is a coach. Somethings are said to influence the players or other teams.  I also agree that he hasn't shown he can be the total package, though I am not completely sure he has been given a fair opportunity.

 

No.  But the poiint is that, even though the offence and defense are different units, they cannot be separate entities, and they have been, because he has ignored the offense.  It cannot be the defense led by The Bloviator and the offense led by Whoever.  Even if he does not know Xs and Os like a sid Gillman, he must still lead them, spend time with them, tell them what is expected, and when one of them screws up, get in their face.  He doesn't really do that.

[SenorGato]

Sure there is allot of truth to that, but how did Rex address and adjust to it?

 

Well the Jets as a franchise, specifically Tannenbaum the GM, failed to build depth underneath the aging starters for various reasons (lack of draft picks being a major one). Combine that with Sanchez's play and it was a recipe for failure. I still say to even pull out 6 wins last year without Revis, without Holmes, and with Sanchez barely a top 40 QB is destined to be underrated simply because 6-10 makes an angry. 

 

Two major draft picks really ****ed the Jets over as far as building a sustainable machine - Gholston and Sanchez. Those guys work out and the franchise is in significantly better shape during 2011 and 2012 despite guys like Scott/Pace/Thomas/Woody/etc declining significantly or retiring due to age. I don't think there's any way a coach can adjust his way into turning that situation into a high level team, and I don't think that's the only way to grade a coach. It's shallow enough for the internet to evaluate that way, but I think the people in the sh*t need to think a little more critically and realistically. This isn't even to say that Rex should stay on past 2013...just that he's done enough for me to think there's more to him as a coach than insane optimism and boyitellya sh*t. I think he put in the work to change how I perceived him when he first came over here and overall I don't find him to be the problem here or even a major part of it. 

[SenorGato]

Right.  There is just as good a chance they are right though. 

 

First, even though, like Slats we all hope that Idzik has an open mind and takes what is good and heaves what is bad, Idzik may have his own plan and it might not include Rex.

 

Second, there are some signs that they are right.  Rex crying and seeming like he has no answer after losses.  The strange handling of the QBs in 2012.  The way the team didn't win near the end of the last two seasons.  The defense regressing 3 years in a row. 

 

I still like him and have hope and I am not the most optimistic dude.

 

Agreed there's a good change they are right. The crying...boylemmetellya that's humiliating...no major issues with the handling of the QBs in 2012 considering who the QBs were...I thought beating Buffalo this year to close the season would have been akin to beating KC in 2007, so I'm pretty fine there (though '11's collapse is definitely an issue)...defense's regression is due to the collapse of the LB group (specifically in speed) and I have some belief that are can be turned over relatively quickly with some focus on the areas these LBs lacked...I'm not highly optimistic about 2013 but I don't believe that if the Jets get really lucky they cap at 6-10 either. 

[Integrity28]

I'm a big Jets fan. I root for wins. WINS.

 

 

That's my line.

[flgreen]

Jason La Canfora        ✔ @JasonLaCanfora

Hearing that Kevin Boothe, one of top OL still on market, taking to NYG, his most recent team, as well as CAR, NYJ and AZ

9:27 PM - 15 Mar 13 

[Integrity28]

Well the real debate is right there.  You think he is short term and now we are reaping diminishing returns.  I think it's just as possible that the team overachieved and lost pieces and Sanchez couldn't pick up the slack.  Sometimes the players coach (Bob Lemon) overachieves with somebody else's team, but sometimes a coach is stuck with a team that isn't his and when you are winning it is tough to redo the roster.  Based on what Rex says you'd be right (loved Schott, loved Sanchez, loved Sparano) but I don't believe what he says.  He says he loves everybody on his team and I think at least some of that was foisted on him.  Tebow for sure.  Having a sh*t roster may play to his strengths - us against the world mentality.   We will see, but 5-10 is far from the ceiling IMO

 

You make good points, but for the sake of realism: Sparano and Sanchez were not foisted on Rex. Those were his "guys".

 

At the end of the day Rex is our coach right now. And right now I hope he turns this thing around with Idzik this year. I would love to be wrong about him, and I'd love for the collective NFL fanbase to have to eat crow too. Rex has been a punching bad for fans from every team... now most of that is on Rex, but still... he's reach the level of "horrible coach" in most opinions, so it'll be nice this year rooting for Rex as an underdog.

 

I love underdogs.

[Integrity28]

Well the Jets as a franchise, specifically Tannenbaum the GM, failed to build depth underneath the aging starters for various reasons (lack of draft picks being a major one). Combine that with Sanchez's play and it was a recipe for failure. I still say to even pull out 6 wins last year without Revis, without Holmes, and with Sanchez barely a top 40 QB is destined to be underrated simply because 6-10 makes an angry. 

 

Two major draft picks really ****ed the Jets over as far as building a sustainable machine - Gholston and Sanchez. Those guys work out and the franchise is in significantly better shape during 2011 and 2012 despite guys like Scott/Pace/Thomas/Woody/etc declining significantly or retiring due to age. I don't think there's any way a coach can adjust his way into turning that situation into a high level team, and I don't think that's the only way to grade a coach. It's shallow enough for the internet to evaluate that way, but I think the people in the sh*t need to think a little more critically and realistically. This isn't even to say that Rex should stay on past 2013...just that he's done enough for me to think there's more to him as a coach than insane optimism and boyitellya sh*t. I think he put in the work to change how I perceived him when he first came over here and overall I don't find him to be the problem here or even a major part of it. 

 

Great post dude.

 

I'd add Ducasse in their as maybe the 3rd most damaging pick in the past 5 years. The Jets made those picks and are still toiling over how to rebound from them failing.

[Integrity28]

I never believed anything he said. I don't see why anybody did.  More importantly, I don't see why people that complained that he talked too much are so upset that maybe he didn't believe everything he said.  He is a coach. Somethings are said to influence the players or other teams.  I also agree that he hasn't shown he can be the total package, though I am not completely sure he has been given a fair opportunity.

 

 

This year = fair opportunity. 

 

He's been given a clean slate and he'll be getting a ton of new pieces, experienced and not, to coach up. If he gets these guys to gel and overachieve, he'll have restored my faith in him. If it's more of the same, then he can go screw.

[JADEDGREEN]

Well the Jets as a franchise, specifically Tannenbaum the GM, failed to build depth underneath the aging starters for various reasons (lack of draft picks being a major one). Combine that with Sanchez's play and it was a recipe for failure. I still say to even pull out 6 wins last year without Revis, without Holmes, and with Sanchez barely a top 40 QB is destined to be underrated simply because 6-10 makes an angry.

Two major draft picks really ****ed the Jets over as far as building a sustainable machine - Gholston and Sanchez. Those guys work out and the franchise is in significantly better shape during 2011 and 2012 despite guys like Scott/Pace/Thomas/Woody/etc declining significantly or retiring due to age. I don't think there's any way a coach can adjust his way into turning that situation into a high level team, and I don't think that's the only way to grade a coach. It's shallow enough for the internet to evaluate that way, but I think the people in the sh*t need to think a little more critically and realistically. This isn't even to say that Rex should stay on past 2013...just that he's done enough for me to think there's more to him as a coach than insane optimism and boyitellya sh*t. I think he put in the work to change how I perceived him when he first came over here and overall I don't find him to be the problem here or even a major part of it.

Tanny was never a personnel guy, nobody was forced on Rex except for maybe Tebow, I can't totally excuse Rex for the draft or the roster failures.

I hear what you are saying though, I just think for someone who did so much talking when things went well, he had no answers for anything when they came crumbling down.

I find it hard to believe he's going to be more convincing to anybody this year, but we'll see.

[flgreen]

Brian Costello 4h.

RT @AdamSchefter: Free-agent CB Aqib Talib reached agreement with the Patriots on a one-year deal. 

[SenorGato]

Great post dude.

 

I'd add Ducasse in their as maybe the 3rd most damaging pick in the past 5 years. The Jets made those picks and are still toiling over how to rebound from them failing.

 

Hitting on Slauson to plug a hole competently and cheaply for a couple of years cushions the Vlad situation. Door is not entirely shut on him or Sanchez in the NFL. The good thing is that failures can be forgotten pretty quickly. 

[#27TheDominator]

Tanny was never a personnel guy, nobody was forced on Rex except for maybe Tebow, I can't totally excuse Rex for the draft or the roster failures.

I hear what you are saying though, I just think for someone who did so much talking when things went well, he had no answers for anything when they came crumbling down.

I find it hard to believe he's going to be more convincing to anybody this year, but we'll see.

 

Totally excuse Rex for the roster failures? Who has done that?  There is a great deal of wiggle room between totally excuse and blame.  I fit in there.  FWIW, I blame the coach more for the cuts and the GM more for the choices.  IMO the Jets have done much better with the cuts since Rex got here than the choices.

 

 

You make good points, but for the sake of realism: Sparano and Sanchez were not foisted on Rex. Those were his "guys".

 

At the end of the day Rex is our coach right now. And right now I hope he turns this thing around with Idzik this year. I would love to be wrong about him, and I'd love for the collective NFL fanbase to have to eat crow too. Rex has been a punching bad for fans from every team... now most of that is on Rex, but still... he's reach the level of "horrible coach" in most opinions, so it'll be nice this year rooting for Rex as an underdog.

 

I love underdogs.

 

Actually, I disagree that he is considered a horrible coach around the league. Hated yes and they love to see him fail, but I don't think the collective NFL fan base thinks he is horrible.  Flawed yes, horrible no.  I'd equate it with the way they are about "running QBs"   They think they are good, but they don't think they can "win it all". 

[JADEDGREEN]

Totally excuse Rex for the roster failures? Who has done that? There is a great deal of wiggle room between totally excuse and blame. I fit in there. FWIW, I blame the coach more for the cuts and the GM more for the choices. IMO the Jets have done much better with the cuts since Rex got here than the choices.

Actually, I disagree that he is considered a horrible coach around the league. Hated yes and they love to see him fail, but I don't think the collective NFL fan base thinks he is horrible. Flawed yes, horrible no. I'd equate it with the way they are about "running QBs" They think they are good, but they don't think they can "win it all".

I was not inferring anybody was Dom, but I think Rex has more to do with the lack of building depth than Gato was alluding to.

It's not like Tanny was throwing his weight around when it came to acquiring personnel.

I like the running QB comparison thorough, it's probably just like that.

[T0mShane]

This year = fair opportunity.

He's been given a clean slate and he'll be getting a ton of new pieces, experienced and not, to coach up. If he gets these guys to gel and overachieve, he'll have restored my faith in him. If it's more of the same, then he can go screw.

??????

[Integrity28]

??????

 

Players.

 

You said yourself he's going to be getting about 8-10 new starters, and there'll be depth players as well.

[Integrity28]

I was not inferring anybody was Dom, but I think Rex has more to do with the lack of building depth than Gato was alluding to.

It's not like Tanny was throwing his weight around when it came to acquiring personnel.

I like the running QB comparison thorough, it's probably just like that.

 

 

Draft picks should have been used for building depth, and look how our drafts have been used for the past few years. It's early and my brain isn't fully up, but other than Kerley I can't think of any quality picks.

 

Guys like the Terminator washed out of the league, and replaced by aging veteran FBs. That's 1 draft pick, and a FA contract or two now, to add Lex Hilliard to the roster. The cost of doing business on that is WAY too much. This is one small example, but it's a perfect example of why we are in this mess.

 

I think Rex and Tanny share equal accountability for how this roster was built, or not built.

[SenorGato]

Players.

You said yourself he's going to be getting about 8-10 new starters, and there'll be depth players as well.

T0m meant in a "to watch him hang himself then burn" kind of way.

[JADEDGREEN]

Draft picks should have been used for building depth, and look how our drafts have been used for the past few years. It's early and my brain isn't fully up, but other than Kerley I can't think of any quality picks.

 

Guys like the Terminator washed out of the league, and replaced by aging veteran FBs. That's 1 draft pick, and a FA contract or two now, to add Lex Hilliard to the roster. The cost of doing business on that is WAY too much. This is one small example, but it's a perfect example of why we are in this mess.

 

I think Rex and Tanny share equal accountability for how this roster was built, or not built.

 

I agree, my fear is that Rex is going to get a free pass beyond this year.

 

I think he knows this, and that is why he is being quiet right now.

 

#massdisfunction

[#27TheDominator]

Draft picks should have been used for building depth, and look how our drafts have been used for the past few years. It's early and my brain isn't fully up, but other than Kerley I can't think of any quality picks.

 

Guys like the Terminator washed out of the league, and replaced by aging veteran FBs. That's 1 draft pick, and a FA contract or two now, to add Lex Hilliard to the roster. The cost of doing business on that is WAY too much. This is one small example, but it's a perfect example of why we are in this mess.

 

I think Rex and Tanny share equal accountability for how this roster was built, or not built.

 

John Connor is emblematic with what is wrong with our perception of depth picks.   He was not a homerun draft pick, but he certainly is NOT out of the league. He is on the Bengals and played down the stretch and In the playoffs.   He was a pretty good special teams player and made the roster for 3 years.  They only cut the guy because he was hurt and they needed to add bodies due to injury concerns.  It happens all the time around the league. You guys all think they would have drafted depth there, but it is more likely that they would have drafted some sh*tty G that would have sat and never played and been cut in year two.  If Rex didn't say he picked the guy nobody would remember his name.  Think Mitch Petrus.  It is true that missing on too many of those picks, amplified by the fact that they had so few is a problem, but Connor was at least an average pick.  Most of those guys are on practice squads their first year or two.

 

This year = fair opportunity. 

 

He's been given a clean slate and he'll be getting a ton of new pieces, experienced and not, to coach up. If he gets these guys to gel and overachieve, he'll have restored my faith in him. If it's more of the same, then he can go screw.

 

 

I'm not sure that this year is a fair opportunity.  I don't think we can say so without knowing what kind of roster they plan on putting on the field and what their expectations will be.  Shane certainly thinks it won't be a fair opportunity.  He thinks they play to put a young sh*tty roster on the field and have a Lovie Smith style playoffs or fired mandate. In NY sometimes even a good job with the personnel available gets you killed in the press and can get you fired. 

[IPack]

I agree, my fear is that Rex is going to get a free pass beyond this year.

I think he knows this, and that is why he is being quiet right now.

#massdisfunction

That's not the case. Rex is quiet because he no longer has influence in the organization.

[JADEDGREEN]

That's not the case. Rex is quiet because he no longer has influence in the organization.

 

I hope that is the case, but Woody still has influence, so I can't be so sure.

[pedro55]

That's not the case. Rex is quiet because he no longer has influence in the organization.

 

 I think people are looking way into Rex being quiet.   What does he have to talk about?  The Jets are cutting people, signing injured backup players, and are on the way to a team who could tank.   He came out to say Revis wasn't going to be traded only to see rumors about a trade happening.  He might not have any say in the organization anynore, but at this point, what would anybody expect from  a loud mouth bragger coming off two non playoff seasons and headed for a 'You're Fired' kind of season ?   "Hey I'm excited we have a Raiders practice squad player!"   Yeah ok.

[BroadwayJoe12]

That's not the case. Rex is quiet because he no longer has influence in the organization.

 

Having influence in the organization is not what made him give the finger to fans down in Miami at a UFC fight or tell reporters how the Jets weren't sharing NY any more, that was just Rex being himself.  People have been clamoring for years for him to shut up and now that he finally does, he's getting ripped for that too.  

[Sperm Edwards]

Great post dude.

 

I'd add Ducasse in their as maybe the 3rd most damaging pick in the past 5 years. The Jets made those picks and are still toiling over how to rebound from them failing.

 

From 2008-2010:

 

Three #1s, two #2s, a #3, a #4, and a #7:  Gholston, Sanchez, Wilson, Ducasse, Greene

 

Brutal.

 

Then throw in a high #2 (#36 overall) and a high #4 (#113 overall) used to trade up to draft Keller.  In relative terms he seems like he was an off-the-charts success...until someone points out that Green Bay used our original #36 pick to draft Jordy Nelson there.

 

In addition to other moves from that time period through last season:

2008 draft: We traded away 3rd and 5th round picks (Kris Jenkins)

2009 draft: We traded away 3rd and 5th round picks (Brett Favre, Lito Sheppard). 

2010 draft: We traded away 3rd and 5th round picks (Braylon Edwards).  Also downgraded our 2010 4th round pick to Philly's 5th for Lito Sheppard.

2011 draft: We traded away a 2nd round pick (Cromartie).

2012 draft: We traded away (net) 4th, 5th, and 6th round picks (Tim Tebow, trade-up for Stephen Hill)

 

There isn't any one of these trades (other than Tebow) that sticks out as being so ridiculous; particularly considering the team's makeup and holes at the time.  But you can't make ALL of these moves year after year and then wonder why there has been so little good, cheap talent on the team for years.

[JADEDGREEN]

 I think people are looking way into Rex being quiet.   What does he have to talk about?  The Jets are cutting people, signing injured backup players, and are on the way to a team who could tank.   He came out to say Revis wasn't going to be traded only to see rumors about a trade happening.  He might not have any say in the organization anynore, but at this point, what would anybody expect from  a loud mouth bragger coming off two non playoff seasons and headed for a 'You're Fired' kind of season ?   "Hey I'm excited we have a Raiders practice squad player!"   Yeah ok.

 

Having influence in the organization is not what made him give the finger to fans down in Miami at a UFC fight or tell reporters how the Jets weren't sharing NY any more, that was just Rex being himself.  People have been clamoring for years for him to shut up and now that he finally does, he's getting ripped for that too.  

 

I was not ripping him, but does it not seem odd, that he is headed for a lame duck year, with a team that is being gutted, and he has nothing to say about it?

[jetsjetsjetss]

From 2008-2010:

 

Three #1s, two #2s, a #3, a #4, and a #7:  Gholston, Sanchez, Wilson, Ducasse, Greene

 

Brutal.

 

Then throw in a high #2 (#36 overall) and a high #4 (#113 overall) used to trade up to draft Keller.  In relative terms he seems like he was an off-the-charts success...until someone points out that Green Bay used our original #36 pick to draft Jordy Nelson there.

 

In addition to other moves from that time period through last season:

2008 draft: We traded away 3rd and 5th round picks (Kris Jenkins)

2009 draft: We traded away 3rd and 5th round picks (Brett Favre, Lito Sheppard). 

2010 draft: We traded away 3rd and 5th round picks (Braylon Edwards).  Also downgraded our 2010 4th round pick to Philly's 5th for Lito Sheppard.

2011 draft: We traded away a 2nd round pick (Cromartie).

2012 draft: We traded away (net) 4th, 5th, and 6th round picks (Tim Tebow, trade-up for Stephen Hill)

 

There isn't any one of these trades (other than Tebow) that sticks out as being so ridiculous; particularly considering the team's makeup and holes at the time.  But you can't make ALL of these moves year after year and then wonder why there has been so little good, cheap talent on the team for years.

 

i miss kris jenkins....

[flgreen]

Rich Cimini 17m.

#Jets announce they have re-signed LS Tanner Purdum, a non-tendered restricted free agent.

Beat Writer / Columnist