SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I guess its difference of team strategy between us then. I just think your overvaluing 1 big name player over a solid team overall. For me the only big name player thats important is a qb and we obviously dont have that I think you're overvaluing the QB position, even if only marginally. I also think you're working off of some idea that keeping Revis stops the Jets from acquiring someone who can play the QB position. Then I also think that the Ravens, 49ers, early 2000's Pats with Seymour and the D, 2005 Steelers, 2008 Cardinals, 2012 Seahawks, the Giants in general, and many great teams of the past show that the QB position being the most important position doesn't mean it's the only important position and the only way to win. Load up the roster and play the short term like the NFL is designed to do and a competent QB can do the job. If this competent QB is young then build around his competence and hope he only gets better with experience until he can't get any better. The Jets of 2009 and 2010 gave a pretty good blueprint - the franchise was a competent QB away from at least a SB appearance during those two years. Sanchez took them far as a rookie and sophomore, so if he took the steps forward he might have taken if he was good the roster organically starts to form around him. That's how it *should* work, this attempt just failed and there are some pretty quantifiable reasons why (Sanchez was a massively inexperienced top QB prospect relative to the successful former top QB prospects). I also think you're taking the Jets' situation and trying to apply general rules of thumb to it. There is no QB taking up 20 million on the payroll for the next 5-6 years pretty easily, barring some kind of miracle situation where Aaron Rodgers hits the open market. Even if Sanchez were to blow up into a good player somehow he wouldn't see 20+ million until he's 30-32. That's an advantage for the franchise even if in the Jets' case right now it's also tied into not having a good QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Of course that's misleading. So is quoting 16-20 million more often than not, and one of the two actually exists as it always was. 16-20 million is three years old at its most direct, and it was never truly direct. It survives on rumor and hearsay. Unban, I know that Cromartie is better than Talib. Cromartie was mentioned because he has solid trade value and is the lesser CB on the team with two high end CBs. No, that is you doing that on your own and claiming other people are. No one has claimed Revis wants $20M/year. You are making it up in an attempt to portray those you disagree with as being irrational. The only irrational thing I've read is someone (not saying who) claiming the Jets should re-sign Revis no matter what his demands are. Revis had last claimed he wanted $16M. If he got a contract at that level it would cost the Jets $19M on the cap. If the Jets did not see to it that a full $16M of new money hit our cap in year one then it means $17M or more of new money would hit a later cap which, for the Jets, translates to $20M or more in cap space. You are the one misleading. His desire for $16M is not 3 years old. It was reiterated one year ago, when Mario got that amount, which is the last time he's publicly stated anything. Revis has never indicated he would take a nickel less. You are the one attemping to create a rumor that his demands are contrary to the demands he has actually made. If his demands are far less, then we should extend him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 No one has claimed Revis wants $20M/year. Sorry, 16-20 million a year. Revis had last claimed he wanted $16M. According to someone familiar with his thinking, Revis is seeking a contract similar to or “just north of’’ the deal the Bills gave defensive end Mario Williams — six years, $96 million with $50 million guaranteed. That is the largest contract for a defensive player in NFL history. Is as close to a quote as I find...someone familiar with his thinking said...from the same side that said "no comment" was him threatening a holdout...oh and the source is the NY Post at that...reliable reporting. Revis has never indicated he would take a nickel less. Revis doesn't have to publicly indicate that even in the slightest. It does him absolutely no good to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Sorry, 16-20. No one has claimed anything over $16M. But then you're being as accurate as I am by claiming you advocate re-signing Revis for $35M/year (guaranteed for the next 8 years) if he asks for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 No one has claimed anything over $16M. But then you're being as accurate as I am by claiming you advocate re-signing Revis for $35M/year (guaranteed for the next 8 years) if he asks for it. 16-20 has been seen multiple times on this site. 35 million a year just made it's first appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 16-20 has been seen multiple times on this site. 35 million a year just made it's first appearance. When did anyone claim Revis was seeking a new contract averaging $20M/year? I must have missed that. You claimed the Jets should re-sign Revis no matter what his demands. Therefore if he demands $35M/year guaranteed for 8 years you feel the Jets should pay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 When did anyone claim Revis was seeking a new contract averaging $20M/year? I must have missed that. Hence, 16-20. I admitted to the 20 thing already, not that it hasn't shown up on this site. Like you suggest, you must have missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 That you did. That you did. There's a search feature. Go find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 There's a search feature. Go find it. See edit. I missed that you specifically said 20 a year. OTOH, I've used this Google search feature my internet has for these Revis quotes where he says he is looking for 16+ million a year. All I've got is Marc Cannizzaro's anonymous source who is familiar with Revis' thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 See edit. I missed that you specifically said 20 a year. OTOH, I've used this Google search feature my internet has for these Revis quotes where he says he is looking for 16+ million a year. All I've got is Marc Cannizzaro's anonymous source who is familiar with Revis' thinking. lol Way to weasel out of it. I can't remember anyone claiming Revis was seeking $20M/year on a new deal. And you must not know how to use google. I just did a fast search for: Revis $16M $16 million. http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/bucs_willing_to_pay_darrelle_revis_16_million/13150174 Why on earth would the Bucs be willing to pay him $16M if it's some fabrication of posters on a Jets message board? Also http://m.nbcsports.com/content/report-revis-seeking-16myear-next-deal http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/254662/report-revis-seeking-$16myear-on-next-deal According to ESPN New York, Darrelle Revis is "believed" to be seeking $16 million annually and $60 million guaranteed on his next contract. For perspective, Mario Williams signed a contract last March paying him $16 million per year but with "only" $50 million guaranteed. It made him the highest paid defensive player in league history. New Jets GM John Idzik met with his All-Pro cornerback on Friday, but was noncommittal on Revis' future at his introductory press conference, which speaks volumes. The Jets only have Revis signed through 2013. Mired in the worst salary cap situation in football, the Jets simply won't be able to pay the man. Source: ESPN New York Jan 25 - 7:59 PM And these are just the first 3 results. And lo and behold, they're all from 2013 not 3 years ago. Amazing. Now you find some articles that say Revis is believed to be asking for millions less per year than $16M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I can't remember anyone claiming Revis was seeking $20M/year on a new deal. Lump it in with 16-20. Darrelle Revis is "believed" Pretty key word in all this. You said Revis said. Turns out it's reporters have said after hearing it from non-Revis sources. If you're going to hold me to a direct quote from a poster on 20 million when I backed down enough then I would like a direct Revis quote. As nice and valid am anonymous person with knowledge of how he thinks is to the NY Post, twitter, and the sports reporting world in general there is not a single thing directly from him like you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 So I say $16M and you claim that's the same as me saying $16-20M. That is as factually correct as you claiming the Jets should pay Revis $35M/year if he asks for it. You are also ducking an easy challenge. Go find any link, any article, any rumor from any sports news outlet that Revis is willing to take millions per year less than $16M. I found one from ESPN stating Revis's purported demands and one from a TB site stating the Bucs would be willing to pay $16M. C'mon sweetie. Should be the easiest thing in the world. Go find just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsjetsjetss Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I think you're overvaluing the QB position, even if only marginally. I also think you're working off of some idea that keeping Revis stops the Jets from acquiring someone who can play the QB position. Then I also think that the Ravens, 49ers, early 2000's Pats with Seymour and the D, 2005 Steelers, 2008 Cardinals, 2012 Seahawks, the Giants in general, and many great teams of the past show that the QB position being the most important position doesn't mean it's the only important position and the only way to win. Load up the roster and play the short term like the NFL is designed to do and a competent QB can do the job. If this competent QB is young then build around his competence and hope he only gets better with experience until he can't get any better. The Jets of 2009 and 2010 gave a pretty good blueprint - the franchise was a competent QB away from at least a SB appearance during those two years. Sanchez took them far as a rookie and sophomore, so if he took the steps forward he might have taken if he was good the roster organically starts to form around him. That's how it *should* work, this attempt just failed and there are some pretty quantifiable reasons why (Sanchez was a massively inexperienced top QB prospect relative to the successful former top QB prospects). I also think you're taking the Jets' situation and trying to apply general rules of thumb to it. There is no QB taking up 20 million on the payroll for the next 5-6 years pretty easily, barring some kind of miracle situation where Aaron Rodgers hits the open market. Even if Sanchez were to blow up into a good player somehow he wouldn't see 20+ million until he's 30-32. That's an advantage for the franchise even if in the Jets' case right now it's also tied into not having a good QB. i think your using the same argument you use on other people on your views about qbs. I wasnt saying that. I said if i was chose Talib and ellerbe over revis for the jets right this moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Jets have $3M/year on the books for Revis from his previous contract. A new contract costing $16M/year would result in a $19M/year hit against the cap for the first three years of that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 So I say $16M and you claim that's the same as me saying $16-20M. Nonononononono...You are one of many working on making Revis look as greedy as possible. I found one from ESPN stating Revis's purported demands and one from a TB site stating the Bucs would be willing to pay $16M. Again, pretty key conditional term here. I don't want Revis' purported demands, I want Revis' exact demands with a quote from him. I could have given you a dozen links like the one you just gave me. It's still not what you said - which is that there are quotes from Revis demanding 16+ million. You are also ducking an easy challenge. Go find any link, any article, any rumor from any sports news outlet that Revis is willing to take millions per year less than $16M. Dude, you can't be crazy enough to think I can disprove something that hasn't been proven. Major news outlets quoting Mr. Cannizzaro's anonymous source with knowledge of Revis' thinking isn't from Revis. There is no reason for me to look for Revis quotes retracting something he never said. You keep making this claim that Revis said it so it should be easy to find a direct quote. Donde esta direct quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Jets have $3M/year on the books for Revis from his previous contract. A new contract costing $16M/year would result in a $19M/year hit against the cap for the first three years of that deal. Only if the new contract starts in 2014. It's 4 years, if you include this year (which is why it costs $12M to cut/trade him this year; $3M x 4 years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Jets have $3M/year on the books for Revis from his previous contract. A new contract costing $16M/year would result in a $19M/year hit against the cap for the first three years of that deal. Long established. I would think common sense says 13 million, a perfectly fine number, plus those bonuses would give him this 16 he says he wants according to those quotes from other people who need quotes to get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Long established. Just thinking this may be where your BS $16-20M figure came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Nonononononono...You are one of many working on making Revis look as greedy as possible. Again, pretty key conditional term here. I don't want Revis' purported demands, I want Revis' exact demands with a quote from him. I could have given you a dozen links like the one you just gave me. It's still not what you said - which is that there are quotes from Revis demanding 16+ million. Dude, you can't be crazy enough to think I can disprove something that hasn't been proven. Major news outlets quoting Mr. Cannizzaro's anonymous source with knowledge of Revis' thinking isn't from Revis. There is no reason for me to look for Revis quotes retracting something he never said. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Just thinking this may be where your BS $16-20M figure came from. Entirely possible that that is where those posters saying 16-20 million came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 lol Are you ******* kidding me? How in the heck are you in a position to troll this way here? YOU'RE TELLING ME TO FIND A QUOTE OF HIM RETRACTING SOMETHING HE NEVER ******* SAID! You can't even prove he said it! You gave me links to non-Post news outlets quoting the guy from the Post who did NOT get a quote from Revis saying he said what you said he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Long established. I would think common sense says 13 million, a perfectly fine number, plus those bonuses would give him this 16 he says he wants according to those quotes from other people who need quotes to get paid. lol Yes, that's where Revis's interests lie. His desire is to have a cap number of $16M. He doesn't actually care what he takes home from that. He wants a cap number of $16M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Entirely possible that that is where those posters saying 16-20 million came from. Best I can discern, "those posters" = you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 lol Yes, that's where Revis's interests lie. His demand is to have a cap number of $16M. He doesn't actually care what he takes home from that. He wants a cap number of $16M. Lol No, he wants a 19 million dollar cap hit, nothing less. He said it himself through an anonymous source who understands his way of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Best I can discern, "those posters" = you. I can understand those posters not being important enough for you to remember. Sadly, that doesn't erase them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 It's not really hard to imagine a player like Revis thinking he's the best defensive player in the NFL and wants to be paid as such. Mario Williams got his $16 million per year, Revis thinking he deserves that much isn't a far fetched idea. So the rumors and reports aren't some made up number. Guys who think they are Elite players are going to demand elite money. Does anybody really think Joe Flacco is a better QB than Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers? No. But Flacco does and he demanded his $20 million per year and got it after one hell of a post season. He became the highest paid QB in the NFL for a moment. How is it so hard to fathom Revis believes he's worth more than Mario Williams? And the Bucs seem ok with paying the guy that kind of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 It's not hard to imagine that anonymous person not existing...or not really knowing how Revis things...or that the Jets can resign an elite player for a reasonable rate as elite players go...or that Revis wants to be a Jet more than he wants to leave the Jets and they're using this situation to gauge his market and extension price...lots of things to imagine...hell, you can imagine Anonymous Source w/ Knowledge of His Thinking is Revis and then try to make that the reality somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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