SenorGato Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Jets have up 23.4 ppg in 2012. They have up 22.7 in 2011. OMGZ .7 PPG LEGENDARY. Fell from first or second best against the pass to tenth and fell into the teens against the run. MEH. Plus 2011's D is totally the standard for this D lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Jets have up 23.4 ppg in 2012. They have up 22.7 in 2011. OMGZ .7 PPG LEGENDARY. Werent the Jets like top 3 D's in the league from 09-11 on 3rd downs? And werent they horrible on 3rd down last season? Revis? Maybe? Dont know. They did suck vs. the run this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 All true plus you can just not throw at your best WR. That does nothing for teams. Plus a whole chunk of field is out of play for the QB and he's probably holding the ball a little longer than usual - MEH. Nothing to be gained from that! Not. Game. Changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 All true plus you can just not throw at your best WR. That does nothing for teams. Plus a whole chunk of field is out of play for the QB and he's probably holding the ball a little longer than usual - MEH. Nothing to be gained from that! Where was the game that somebody's #1 tore up this defense? Hm? Hm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 They disrupt a tempo of the offense. A ball in the air, anything can happen. A ball that is prevented from being passed equals a null play. DLineman alsoi control more than just the pass game. How often is a DLman preventing a pass from being thrown? Wtf does "anything can happen" mean? Revis is getting lucky? What else do DLman "control?" Now Revis doesnt play into the run? Antoine Winfield? Ty Law? Champ Bailey? Fuuuck ouuuuuttta here with this stuff, in a nice way. You're just unbelievably wrong and outdated in your thinking. You can't keep parroting around "passing league" and then discount the one position that most directly plays the pass every single play. It's such a ninkompoop thought process that I'm not even sure how it's POSSIBLE to buy into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 28, 2013 Author Share Posted March 28, 2013 Go prove that he changed how the Jets performed. You have plenty of games over the past two seasons where Revis didn't play. Go find one where a receiver single-handedly beat us down. Don't you remember that game vs the Vikings a couple of years back? If not for one overthrow of a wide-open receiver by Favre at the end of the game, Percy Harvin had essentially single-handedly beat the Jets. Oh wait, that's right, Revis was actually covering Harvin that entire game, never mind. But seriously, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Revis is absolutely an exceptional player at CB, but he hasn't yet been able to, and has shown no evidence to suggest that he ever will, replicate that 2009 season that he still wants to be paid based upon (and that many still use to evaluate him). And beyond that the truth is that, by not fault of his own, the position he plays is one that is limited in how much it can really do, as the opposing team has the ability to completely avoid him however and whenever it sees fit. You simply can't do that to the kind of positions that get paid top dollars throughout the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Werent the Jets like top 3 D's in the league from 09-11 on 3rd downs? And werent they horrible on 3rd down last season? Revis? Maybe? Dont know. They did suck vs. the run this year. So weird how the Jets third down defense went to sh*t at the same rate as their pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 How often is a DLman preventing a pass from being thrown? Wtf does "anything can happen" mean? Revis is getting lucky? What else do DLman "control?" Now Revis doesnt play into the run? Antoine Winfield? Ty Law? Champ Bailey? Fuuuck ouuuuuttta here with this stuff, in a nice way. You're just unbelievably wrong and outdated in your thinking. You can't keep parroting around "passing league" and then discount the one position that most directly plays the pass every single play. It's such a ninkompoop thought process that I'm not even sure how it's POSSIBLE to buy into it. A corner affects one receiver on any particular pass play. A pressure or a sack affects all receivers on any particular pass play. SCIENCE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 So weird how the Jets third down defense went to sh*t at the same rate as their pass rush. When have the Jets had a pass rush? lulza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 28, 2013 Author Share Posted March 28, 2013 What does that have to do with anything? Revis makes game changing plays. Saying he doesnt is some of the stupidest sh*t I've ever heard. Remember his 100 yard pick 6 against the Dolphags? Did that change the game? What about his pick vs. the Cowboys opening day same year? Did that change the game? What about his pick on Rivers while guarding VJax in the playoffs? That didnt change the game? Or the pick 6 vs. the Panthers? Not a game changer there either? I suspect that one vs. the Pats guarding Moss in Rex's first game vs. New England didnt change the game either. You can argue his net worth all you want, and I'll probably agree, the Jets dont need him. But saying he doesnt change the game is ******* stupid. Seriously. All of those examples are absolutely true, but I think the point is making those kind of plays on a consistent basis. You can dig up game-changing type plays for just about every player in the NFL who has played any significant snaps. I could come up with a list of game-changing plays from Mark Sanchez much longer than that one, and I think we can all safely say he is just plain awful. When you're talking about a "game changer", you're talking about the kind of guy who can do those kind of things with regularity. The truth is that, given the nature of the CB position, it's nearly impossible for those players to do that. Of course that doesn't mean Revis isn't an awesome CB, it just means that Jets can't necessarily go in with a plan that is reliant on Revis pulling out the victory for them in the end, because the opposing team has far too much control over his involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Where was the game that somebody's #1 tore up this defense? Hm? Hm? So should I take this to mean the Jets are better than you say they are or that Revis isn't good? Not that teams had to work hard with the pass this year against the Jets' bottom ranked offense and mid-tier run defense, but Wallace, Bess, Amedola, Alexander, Rice all had games that most likely don't happen with Revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Werent the Jets like top 3 D's in the league from 09-11 on 3rd downs? And werent they horrible on 3rd down last season? Revis? Maybe? Dont know. They did suck vs. the run this year. They sucked on 3rd downs WITH Revis in the line up too last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 How often is a DLman preventing a pass from being thrown? Wtf does "anything can happen" mean? Revis is getting lucky? What else do DLman "control?" Now Revis doesnt play into the run? Antoine Winfield? Ty Law? Champ Bailey? Fuuuck ouuuuuttta here with this stuff, in a nice way. You're just unbelievably wrong and outdated in your thinking. You can't keep parroting around "passing league" and then discount the one position that most directly plays the pass every single play. It's such a ninkompoop thought process that I'm not even sure how it's POSSIBLE to buy into it. You have been watching the Jets defense too long. No wonder your brain is mush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 When have the Jets had a pass rush? lulza Start a thread praising the '09-'11 pass rush and watch his leaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 You have been watching the Jets defense too long. No wonder your brain is mush So it hit you how often pass rushers actually stop a pass from being thrown? Must have been disappointing for you..though as a Mets/Jets fan life is full of disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 All of those examples are absolutely true, but I think the point is making those kind of plays on a consistent basis. You can dig up game-changing type plays for just about every player in the NFL who has played any significant snaps. I could come up with a list of game-changing plays from Mark Sanchez much longer than that one, and I think we can all safely say he is just plain awful. When you're talking about a "game changer", you're talking about the kind of guy who can do those kind of things with regularity. The truth is that, given the nature of the CB position, it's nearly impossible for those players to do that. Of course that doesn't mean Revis isn't an awesome CB, it just means that Jets can't necessarily go in with a plan that is reliant on Revis pulling out the victory for them in the end, because the opposing team has far too much control over his involvement. I dont know what the point is. Scott said Revis is not a game changer. Thats a dumb comment. Whats funny is, I'm 100% in support of trading Revis. Always have been. Ever since the hold out. Remember Mevi$ Slouch? There is absolutely no way you invest the type of money he's asking for in a CB, especially in the Jets situation. I guess I'm just commenting on the stupidity of saying Revis doesnt change the game. Ofcourse he does. To your point though, the only players who can change the game on a "regular basis" are skills players on offense. A strip sack happens, how often? (if youre not playing Sanchez)...probably just as often as an INT (if youre not playing Sanchez). And whats the difference between an incompletion on 3rd down thrown at Revis compared to a sack? Not much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 So it hit you how often pass rushers actually stop a pass from being thrown? Must have been disappointing for you..though as a Mets/Jets fan life is full of disappointment. Pass rushers change pass plays an extraordinary amount, if they apply consistent pressure. Something the Jets have not been able to do. Even a hint of a pass rush changes an offesnes approach to the passing game. Again, you just watch the jets defense too much, and become mesmerized into thinking that the best pass defense is a CB. LULZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Also of note: Rodgers is about to sign long-term for about $24-$25 mil per. If the going rate for a first-class QB is going to be a fifth of the salary cap, that's the end of the giant contracts for almost every other position outside of pass rusher. The entire market will be crushed for every other position. this fact is only relevant to teams with a first class QB the hope that the Jets are gonna get one of these is tied up in the "We-don't-need-Revis" argument. It's leaving room for an imaginary contract to an imaginary player. its like when Jerry Glanville left tickets for Elvis. deep faith. btw alot of teams that don't have Aaron Rodgers are gonna look for Russell Wilson types and run spread. I don't know where Revis fits in a spread league but he is a sure tackler and good on the jam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 You dudes are super-confusing now. Without Revis, the Jets stink on third down, the defense can't stop Danny Amendola, can't generate a pass rush...but Rex is also a "top five" coach in the league because...Revis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 A corner affects one receiver on any particular pass play. A pressure or a sack affects all receivers on any particular pass play. SCIENCE JN Science. A corner taking out a team's best WR affects the whole way a team passes the ball in this Passing League. QBs now have to trust lesser talents to be open more and make the big plays. A corner is the fastest player on the field for defenses in this Passing League where offenses are able to operate quicker and over greater distances more consistently. A CB is one of the best conditioned players on the roster, and least massive, in an era where the no huddle offense is becoming a staple in playbooks. OTOH sacks are so exciting to watch! A pass rusher might be able to stop as many as 1 passing play a game. BEAT THAT Revis! This is all throwing out that Revis is one of the best players against the run in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I dont know what the point is. Scott said Revis is not a game changer. Thats a dumb comment. Whats funny is, I'm 100% in support of trading Revis. Always have been. Ever since the hold out. Remember Mevi$ Slouch? There is absolutely no way you invest the type of money he's asking for in a CB, especially in the Jets situation. I guess I'm just commenting on the stupidity of saying Revis doesnt change the game. Ofcourse he does. To your point though, the only players who can change the game on a "regular basis" are skills players on offense. A strip sack happens, how often? (if youre not playing Sanchez)...probably just as often as an INT (if youre not playing Sanchez). And whats the difference between an incompletion on 3rd down thrown at Revis compared to a sack? Not much. Shonn Greene can break a long TD run on occasion also, but that does not mean that I want to pay him deluxe dollars for a rarity. There are ways to spend money, and ways to spend it smartly. Would I love an All Pro CB? You bet. But at the demise of the rest of the team (becase of the monies we have in Cromartie now)? NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 this fact is only relevant to teams with a first class QB the hope that the Jets are gonna get one of these is tied up in the "We-don't-need-Revis" argument. It's leaving room for an imaginary contract to an imaginary player. its like when Jerry Glanville left tickets for Elvis. deep faith. btw alot of teams that don't have Aaron Rodgers are gonna look for Russell Wilson types and run spread. I don't know where Revis fits in a spread league but he is a sure tackler and good on the jam. No one will be running the spread in five years because all these teams are going to get sick watching their quarterbacks getting scraped off the field every year. And Rodgers' contract raises all ships. The great QB will make $22-$25, the good QB will make $15. Hell, Sanchez and Carson Palmer made $13 last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Nope. He can't cover both sides of the field. He touches the ball less than 10 times a year. The Jets have won with and without him. The CB position is down on the list of positions that you throw money at. hey, The Jets had the 2nd pass pass defense without Revis......... at most he takes away 1/4 to 1/5 of the field--with the spread offenses and the passes out of the backfield. the rest of these DBs are hamstrung by the rules and toting a lot less talent. No. He is not exactly essential. Teams can work around him with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 28, 2013 Author Share Posted March 28, 2013 JN Science. A corner taking out a team's best WR affects the whole way a team passes the ball in this Passing League. QBs now have to trust lesser talents to be open more and make the big plays. A corner is the fastest player on the field for defenses in this Passing League where offenses are able to operate quicker and over greater distances more consistently. A CB is one of the best conditioned players on the roster, and least massive, in an era where the no huddle offense is becoming a staple in playbooks. OTOH sacks are so exciting to watch! A pass rusher might be able to stop as many as 1 passing play a game. BEAT THAT Revis! This is all throwing out that Revis is one of the best players against the run in the league. By your logic, if the only way a DE counts as having an impact on a play is a sack, then the only way a CB counts as having an impact on a play is an INT. The former is far more frequent of an occurrence than the latter, so you still wouldn't be proving anything even if we assumed your argument had any sort of merit to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 JN Science. A corner taking out a team's best WR affects the whole way a team passes the ball in this Passing League. QBs now have to trust lesser talents to be open more and make the big plays. A corner is the fastest player on the field for defenses in this Passing League where offenses are able to operate quicker and over greater distances more consistently. A CB is one of the best conditioned players on the roster, and least massive, in an era where the no huddle offense is becoming a staple in playbooks. OTOH sacks are so exciting to watch! A pass rusher might be able to stop as many as 1 passing play a game. BEAT THAT Revis! This is all throwing out that Revis is one of the best players against the run in the league. Conditioning and speed. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 No one will be running the spread in five years because all these teams are going to get sick watching their quarterbacks getting scraped off the field every year. at rg3 prices yes, at Dennis Dixon prices they will treat em like running backs. tom take a second and remember this moment. In 5 years there will be less spread? I don't even like the spread but it's everywhere. Go to a high school game they are running spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Pass rushers change pass plays an extraordinary amount, if they apply consistent pressure. Something the Jets have not been able to do. Even a hint of a pass rush changes an offesnes approach to the passing game. Again, you just watch the jets defense too much, and become mesmerized into thinking that the best pass defense is a CB. LULZ I...I don't even know what to say. This post is loaded, absolutely loaded, with sh*tty thought processes all around. A few questions instead; - The Cowboys not only have the best pass rusher in the game with Ware, they also have an above average one in Spencer. Even their third pass rusher, Butler, is one of the most coveted FAs on JN. Why is it their best pass defense in years, and it still sucked, came only after taking a CB with a top 5 pick? Why would they even trade up to the top 5 for a CB if they have all the pass defenders they need? - Who is this premium pass rusher taking Revis' money on the Jets? - Just for the hell of it - What premium player is taking Revis' money on the Jets period? Where are these great players the Jets will be unable to pay if they keep Revis? I don't expect very strong answers from you, but I will be optimistic and expect a legitimate shot. Now that I typed that out I the optimism...Ah well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Conditioning and speed. Got it. More non-factors in T0m's world until it's time to bitch about how slow the Jets are. Gotta love your flexibility. And Rodgers' contract raises all ships. The great QB will make $22-$25, the good QB will make $15. Hell, Sanchez and Carson Palmer made $13 last year. So our #1 pick underclassman QB next year will need how much cap space? You seem really good at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 this fact is only relevant to teams with a first class QB the hope that the Jets are gonna get one of these is tied up in the "We-don't-need-Revis" argument. It's leaving room for an imaginary contract to an imaginary player. its like when Jerry Glanville left tickets for Elvis. deep faith. btw alot of teams that don't have Aaron Rodgers are gonna look for Russell Wilson types and run spread. I don't know where Revis fits in a spread league but he is a sure tackler and good on the jam. The Jets have approximately 13m in cap space AFTER restructuring, and need to sign starting players and a draft class. They couldn't sign a high profile QB if they wanted to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Shonn Greene can break a long TD run on occasion also, but that does not mean that I want to pay him deluxe dollars for a rarity. There are ways to spend money, and ways to spend it smartly. Would I love an All Pro CB? You bet. But at the demise of the rest of the team (becase of the monies we have in Cromartie now)? NO! Agreed. But Revis is a game changer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Yeah. Having Revis doesn't free up guys to blitz or anything. Having to roll a safety over doesn't have any effect on the run D or efficiency of the offense in general. Receiving vastly better safety play than any prior season under Rex they still weren't any better. Hmmm. You guys are right. Revis makes no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 The Jets have approximately 13m in cap space AFTER restructuring, and need to sign starting players and a draft class. They couldn't sign a high profile QB if they wanted to Yeah, no sh*t. There aren't any just readily available because Cap Space. Just a lazy, lazy thought process... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Agreed. But Revis is a game changer. But those games are few and far between. Other positions happen with more regularity, if you get the right player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Yeah. Having Revis doesn't free up guys to blitz or anything. Having to roll a safety over doesn't have any effect on the run D or efficiency of the offense in general. Receiving vastly better safety play than any prior season under Rex they still weren't any better. Hmmm. You guys are right. Revis makes no difference. How has that worked out for the Jets? Not saying he doesn't make any difference, but other positions can and do control games more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 But those games are few and far between. Other positions happen with more regularity, if you get the right player Revis does it with regularity and is the right player. See, I know this is true because we've all seen it first hand. OTOH, you're working with a theory that you see more as a fact AND THEN concede that the player isn't even here. This is the end of your thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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