Sperm Edwards Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 But thats my point. These are the guys potentially on the list and there aren't a ton of "we will sign him" kind of guys. So with all this money next year, who will the Jets really sign? Seems more like they will just be saving money for Woody. Plus if any of their one year injury prone guys does well this season, they'll have to pay them more next year, like Landry. Or watch those guys leave and then be forced to sign somebody to replace them. How do you describe Tampa then? They're paying Revis $16M and VJ $11M and and Nicks and Joseph and so forth. But the reason they were able to is because they had the cap space to do it. In time they'll learn, as the Jets did, that while you can fit a handful of these guys on your team, it doesn't leave much room for much else. Next year they'll have 7 players making $6M+, Zuttah making $4M, and no other positional players under contract - including QB - who make even $2M (while today technically being over the 2014 cap, and Freeman - who will cost at least $10M/year to bring back if he isn't awful again - isn't even signed yet). Sound familiar? A handful of very good to great players and then no one else on the team worthy of low-end starter money. If they don't hit on 2-3 draft picks per year with that structure they're going to have a tough time making noise even if Freeman is a somewhat reliable QB. They'll just have too many holes for other teams to exploit. This year is different for them because two of the players they signed to enormous contracts - Jackson & Nicks - are each getting less than $1M in base salary after they restructured to backload some more bonus money to free up 2013 dollars. It'll catch up with them the same way those maneuvers caught up with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 How do you describe Tampa then? They're paying Revis $16M and VJ $11M and and Nicks and Joseph and so forth. But the reason they were able to is because they had the cap space to do it. In time they'll learn, as the Jets did, that while you can fit a handful of these guys on your team, it doesn't leave much room for much else. Next year they'll have 7 players making $6M+, Zuttah making $4M, and no other positional players under contract - including QB - who make even $2M (while today technically being over the 2014 cap, and Freeman - who will cost at least $10M/year to bring back if he isn't awful again - isn't even signed yet). Sound familiar? A handful of very good to great players and then no one else on the team worthy of low-end starter money. If they don't hit on 2-3 draft picks per year with that structure they're going to have a tough time making noise even if Freeman is a somewhat reliable QB. They'll just have too many holes for other teams to exploit. This year is different for them because two of the players they signed to enormous contracts - Jackson & Nicks - are each getting less than $1M in base salary after they restructured to backload some more bonus money to free up 2013 dollars. It'll catch up with them the same way those maneuvers caught up with us. I think the Bucs are nuts for spending what they are spending. As great as Revis is, if Freeman still sucks, the Bucs will fall with him. The problem the Jets have is they can have all the money in the world, but if they don't hit with most of their draft picks, they'll just be a team with 50 Million to spend on the few players who want to come. Look at the Bills. They had some cap space, spent a ton, and still sucked. And who is to say the Jets aren't in the same Boat as the Bucs in a few seasons. They go 7-9, have some money, and sign a Revis or Mario Williams to some absurd contract. Doesn't mean they win. it's about drafting well and then signing some key free agents to mentor, provide depth etc. Or you lose a Welker type, replace him with somebody similar. The Jets lose Greene, who wasn't that good, and replace him with a bunch of injury prone backup scrubs. And if they bring in Ivory, the guy isn't exactly that much cheaper than Greene. At least Greene has done something in the NFL. And thats not saying much at all. This is where I worry because the jets don't seem to replace people or know how. They lose Abraham years ago and they still have no replacements. Their WRs have been nothing special for years. They dump Thomas Jones and thought Greene would be the guy. Except he wasn't. They dump Faneca, never really replaced him. At least they dumped Mahwae and replaced him with Mangold. Thats all a previous regime, but so far all we have is a regime who is intent on cutting all the fat and then some, and no clue if they know how to build a winning organization. We can only hope. And thats where this years draft will tell us a lot about what they plan on doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I think the Bucs are nuts for spending what they are spending. As great as Revis is, if Freeman still sucks, the Bucs will fall with him. The problem the Jets have is they can have all the money in the world, but if they don't hit with most of their draft picks, they'll just be a team with 50 Million to spend on the few players who want to come. Look at the Bills. They had some cap space, spent a ton, and still sucked. And who is to say the Jets aren't in the same Boat as the Bucs in a few seasons. They go 7-9, have some money, and sign a Revis or Mario Williams to some absurd contract. Doesn't mean they win. it's about drafting well and then signing some key free agents to mentor, provide depth etc. Or you lose a Welker type, replace him with somebody similar. The Jets lose Greene, who wasn't that good, and replace him with a bunch of injury prone backup scrubs. And if they bring in Ivory, the guy isn't exactly that much cheaper than Greene. At least Greene has done something in the NFL. And thats not saying much at all. This is where I worry because the jets don't seem to replace people or know how. They lose Abraham years ago and they still have no replacements. Their WRs have been nothing special for years. They dump Thomas Jones and thought Greene would be the guy. Except he wasn't. They dump Faneca, never really replaced him. At least they dumped Mahwae and replaced him with Mangold. Thats all a previous regime, but so far all we have is a regime who is intent on cutting all the fat and then some, and no clue if they know how to build a winning organization. We can only hope. And thats where this years draft will tell us a lot about what they plan on doing. They do replace players. You just have to realize it when it happens. They lost Vilma & replaced him with Harris. They lost Mawae & replaced him with Mangold. They lost Law & replaced him with Revis. They lost Pennington & replaced him with Favre. They lost Favre & replaced him with Sanchez. They lost Coles & replaced him with Edwards. They lost Hobson & replaced him with Pace. They lost Barton & replaced him with Harris. Now the problem with these moves and many others is just that the replacements weren't always upgrades, and in some cases were severe downgrades despite the high price paid for the replacement. But they weren't moves that were made to replace a high-priced or high-performance player with a dirt-cheap scrub just to save money. Plus there were a couple of years (2010-2011) in a row the Jets were prevented from markedly upgrading free agents because of their final-4 finish the prior season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason423 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Is that nyjetscap Jason? One and the same. I try to keep the feeds separate but obviously lots of Jets crossover today. Plus nyjetscap is lacking on updates lately while I deal with getting OTC up and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 They do replace players. You just have to realize it when it happens. They lost Vilma & replaced him with Harris. They lost Mawae & replaced him with Mangold. They lost Law & replaced him with Revis. They lost Pennington & replaced him with Favre. They lost Favre & replaced him with Sanchez. They lost Coles & replaced him with Edwards. They lost Hobson & replaced him with Pace. They lost Barton & replaced him with Harris. Now the problem with these moves and many others is just that the replacements weren't always upgrades, and in some cases were severe downgrades despite the high price paid for the replacement. But they weren't moves that were made to replace a high-priced or high-performance player with a dirt-cheap scrub just to save money. Plus there were a couple of years (2010-2011) in a row the Jets were prevented from markedly upgrading free agents because of their final-4 finish the prior season. Oh I said that they replaced Mawae with Mangold. And it was a great replacement. Harris for Vilma, who knows, it was at least a plan to replace him. But now its Harris for Vilma and Barton? Harris was never that good to think he'd replace both. Favre wasn't a replacement for Pennington. He was a PR move by Woody and Tanny. Just like Tebow. If he stayed retired or the Packers didn't do what they did, he would have stayed on the Packers or went to the Vikings. And that was at the last minute. It wasn't like the Jets were desperate to make a run for Favre. That wasn't replacing Pennington, that was just going after some PR stunt and hoping it worked out. Kellen Clemens was supposed to replace Pennington. He didn't, but it was an attempt. And then Favre was retiring again and it didn't seem like the Jets and the new HC wanted anything to do with him. So they were all out going to try and get Sanchez. That was their guy. And come on with Ty Law. He played one season for the Jets. Revis wasn't drafted until 2007, Law was cut in 2006. So who replaced Law during the 2006 season? That is just trying to make a connection that doesn't exist. So yes, they've made moves over the years to replace players, but it seems they don't try and replace stars. Vilma is great, but Abraham was supposed to be a beast. He might have never lived up to that hype, but he's been a pretty good Defensive force over the years. They never replaced him. Revis is now gone and who knows if they will ever replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Oh I said that they replaced Mawae with Mangold. And it was a great replacement. Harris for Vilma, who knows, it was at least a plan to replace him. But now its Harris for Vilma and Barton? Harris was never that good to think he'd replace both. Favre wasn't a replacement for Pennington. He was a PR move by Woody and Tanny. Just like Tebow. If he stayed retired or the Packers didn't do what they did, he would have stayed on the Packers or went to the Vikings. And that was at the last minute. It wasn't like the Jets were desperate to make a run for Favre. That wasn't replacing Pennington, that was just going after some PR stunt and hoping it worked out. Kellen Clemens was supposed to replace Pennington. He didn't, but it was an attempt. And then Favre was retiring again and it didn't seem like the Jets and the new HC wanted anything to do with him. So they were all out going to try and get Sanchez. That was their guy. And come on with Ty Law. He played one season for the Jets. Revis wasn't drafted until 2007, Law was cut in 2006. So who replaced Law during the 2006 season? That is just trying to make a connection that doesn't exist. So yes, they've made moves over the years to replace players, but it seems they don't try and replace stars. Vilma is great, but Abraham was supposed to be a beast. He might have never lived up to that hype, but he's been a pretty good Defensive force over the years. They never replaced him. Revis is now gone and who knows if they will ever replace him. Well, Harris and Scott for Vilma and Barton. Contracts aside, it was an upgrade. I Replacing a player doesn't need to occur that same year. People complain the Jets "never" replaced this player or that one; not that they didn't "immediately" replace the player. Law was a significant acquisition and made the pro bowl and had 10 picks. We had to let him go because of a gargantuan cap hit we couldn't possibly pay. Tried Andre Dyson for a year and when that faltered we drafted Revis. I wasn't suggesting Revis was drafted to take Law's place. But that Law was only here a year is not significant; Faneca was only here 2 years and though his play was declining fast you were complaining that we never replaced him. Without getting into opinions as to the motivation - like with Favre - I'm saying that areas where we had a significant player and lost the player (through FA or cutting him or trading; doesn't matter), many were replaced. Sometimes it was an upgrade. Often it was not. I think they genuinely thought Favre was an upgrade over Pennington. The PR was one thing, but they were still in the old stadium trying to get into Manhattan I think so it wasn't PSL time yet. In 2007 Pennington (and Clemens) sucked and Favre didn't. He was a pro bowler and future HOFer coming off one of his better season so I think there was more to it than just PR. But that's a long time ago already. I don't want to get into a thing with you. We have a bunch of picks, it looks like we'll trade down and acquire at least 1-2 more, and I hope they're used wisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 One and the same. I try to keep the feeds separate but obviously lots of Jets crossover today. Plus nyjetscap is lacking on updates lately while I deal with getting OTC up and running. Ah! Excellent! I felt like I was cheating using the OTC feed. Good luck in the new endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 a real man's dog. surprised he does not have a little vest on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 So yes, they've made moves over the years to replace players, but it seems they don't try and replace stars. Vilma is great, but Abraham was supposed to be a beast. He might have never lived up to that hype, but he's been a pretty good Defensive force over the years. They never replaced him. Revis is now gone and who knows if they will ever replace him. Here's the thing - the Jets don't have to replace the greatest CB ever with another HoF caliber CB. If they're allocating resources away from the CB and moving them into premium positions (QB, pass rusher), or other positions of need (roughly, all of them), then they're making a smart move to improve the team overall. For a long time now, the Jets have been too dependent on free agency and trades to improve the team. Too many draft picks have been traded away. As a result, the Jets have overpaid for a lot of players over the years, and their cap has been weighed down with expensive deals for players who either didn't live up to the hype or declined here. By trading Revis for picks, and clearing cap space, they're moving in the right direction. They'll probably trade down this year and get more picks. Next year, they'll have as many as four comp picks plus Tampa's 4th or 3rd. They're getting back to building thru the draft in a hurry. Once you build the base of your team thru the draft, and have them under contract for affordable rookie contracts, you can then afford to make the occasional splash in free agency to grab a star to push you over the top if need be. It's all about how Idzik uses these picks now. That's what's going to define not only whether or not this trade was a good move, but whether hiring Idzik was a good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TnT Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 If Idzik hits on 4 picks this year/4 picks next year...WITH THE ROOKIE CAP IN PLACE...and a couple of solid FA's....we can have a managable cap for years to come...oh boy... In Idzik We Trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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