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Dee Milliner: Sports Science.


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#1 Villain The Foe

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:08 AM

 

Freakish.


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#2 pointman

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:10 AM

Comparison to Cro?? OK. I hope he lives up to it.


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#3 stoicsentry

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:11 AM

I'm so glad we addressed our obvious weakness at cornerback, ignoring positions we didn't need like safety, linebacker, guard, wide receiver, running back, tight end, etc.


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#4 pointman

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:13 AM

I'm so glad we addressed our obvious weakness at cornerback, ignoring positions we didn't need like safety, linebacker, guard, wide receiver, running back, tight end, etc.

Agreed. Its not like we had a shutdown corner in Cro, and a former first round pick who did his job well as a starter last season in Wilson. Nope, not at all. 

 

2013, starting safety... Eric Smith. Sweeeet.


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#5 JADEDGREEN

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:16 AM

Rexology!


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#6 Villain The Foe

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:17 AM

*
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I'm so glad we addressed our obvious weakness at cornerback, ignoring positions we didn't need like safety, linebacker, guard, wide receiver, running back, tight end, etc.

Idzik said that he takes the best talent available in the first round and it isnt necessarily position specific. On top of the fact that the draft is deep with safeties and outside of Austin and Patterson we didnt miss out on anything on our offense that we cant touch on in later rounds. even the running back you mentioned is still there given that one wasnt even drafted. Im not trying to discredit your statement, I feel your pain as a fellow Jet fan, but now that I've calmed down, I honestly feel like Idzik has a plan and he isnt going to deviate from it. As a fan of a team who hasnt had a solid plan since the days of Tuna, im going to ride with him on this one. Its day one, we have alot more left in front of us and a sh_tload of talent still available.


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#7 HessStation

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:19 AM

Seeing that it's not the prospects but the positions...I'm just gonna take the high road and hope for an ultimate Defense with multiple schemes so confusing to the opposing offenses they don't give up a point all season. It's their only chance.


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#8 pointman

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:19 AM

Idzik said that he takes the best talent available in the first round and it isnt necessarily position specific. On top of the fact that the draft is deep with safeties and outside of Austin and Patterson we didnt miss out on anything on our offense that we cant touch on in later rounds. even the running back you mentioned is still there given that one wasnt even drafted. Im not trying to discredit your statement, I feel your pain as a fellow Jet fan, but now that I've calmed down, I honestly feel like Idzik has a plan and he isnt going to deviate from it. As a fan of a team who hasnt had a solid plan since the days of Tuna, im going to ride with him on this one. Its day one, we have alot more left in front of us and a sh_tload of talent still available.

The idea that we used BOTH our picks on defensive players where we are strong is the issue. I appreciate the idea of taking the best player available, but you gotta go with that to a certain extent and now when its time to go to the "second best player available". The Packers aren't going to take a QB first round, just to sit behind Rodgers. Taking a defensive lineman behind Coples and Wilkerson, our 2012 and 2011 first round picks when we run a 3-4.. is insane!! Or stupid. Either or.


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#9 pointman

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:20 AM

We should have taken a center. Mangold needs company.


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#10 JADEDGREEN

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:21 AM

What really makes today sting is the fact that we let Revis go, Woody would not even allow us to negotiate with him.


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#11 pointman

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:22 AM

What really makes today sting is the fact that we let Revis go, Woody would not even allow us to negotiate with him.

Best player in franchise history, don't even try to re-sign him. Genius. 


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#12 JADEDGREEN

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:24 AM

Best player in franchise history, don't even try to re-sign him. Genius. 

 

I hated the holdouts, but he was great on the field, they should have at least tried!


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#13 stoicsentry

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:25 AM

The idea that we used BOTH our picks on defensive players where we are strong is the issue. I appreciate the idea of taking the best player available, but you gotta go with that to a certain extent and now when its time to go to the "second best player available". The Packers aren't going to take a QB first round, just to sit behind Rodgers. Taking a defensive lineman behind Coples and Wilkerson, our 2012 and 2011 first round picks when we run a 3-4.. is insane!! Or stupid. Either or.

 

Yeah, right, it's not just that we went defense only. It's that we targeted 2 of the maybe 4 or 5 positions we're actually strong at already. I don't know how that happens. You have to do something there, even if it means taking a bit of a loss on the trade down then you do that maybe. We have plenty of needs, how they managed to avoid ALL of them is quite amazing really...


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#14 pointman

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:25 AM

I hated the holdouts, but he was great on the field, they should have at least tried!

Exactly. I hated it too. It got real old, real fast. But not to even try... unbelievable. Who knows what could have come from just having the conversation with him. He knew no one was knocking down his door, besides Tampa who offered zero guaranteed money. He liked it here. The conversation could have been really really good... and maybe then we didn't use our #9 pick on a corner, and instead wasted it on a punter.


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#15 pointman

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:28 AM

Yeah, right, it's not just that we went defense only. It's that we targeted 2 of the maybe 4 or 5 positions we're actually strong at already. I don't know how that happens. You have to do something there, even if it means taking a bit of a loss on the trade down then you do that maybe. We have plenty of needs, how they managed to avoid ALL of them is quite amazing really...

Its like a punchline that we would joke about before the draft. "lol. Watch, wouldn't it be funny if we didn't address any of our needs?" IT DAMN WELL HAPPENED!!!! This has got to be a rich man getting his kicks by messing with a bunch of people who love this franchise regardless. 


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#16 Villain The Foe

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:33 AM

The idea that we used BOTH our picks on defensive players where we are strong is the issue. I appreciate the idea of taking the best player available, but you gotta go with that to a certain extent and now when its time to go to the "second best player available". The Packers aren't going to take a QB first round, just to sit behind Rodgers. Taking a defensive lineman behind Coples and Wilkerson, our 2012 and 2011 first round picks when we run a 3-4.. is insane!! Or stupid. Either or.

I absolutely understand and feel where you're coming from. I specifically wanted to trade down just so we could load up on offense at the back end of the 1st and in the 2nd. My question is this. Who would you have taken at the 13th pick that wouldnt have been considered a "reach" at that position? Betteryet, besides the reach, who would you have taken that you wouldnt haven been able to pick up possibly or someone close in the 2nd round? Lacy hasnt even been drafted, many people feel that Justin Hunter and Keenan Allen are better than Patterson and they're still there...not to mention the other overall WR talent available, many people felt going top 10 on a guard with this many holes in skill positions wasnt a good idea given that you could still get some in the later rounds. We all had a feeling that the Jets werent going safety in the first round so its no surprise, DT was actually a need etc. 

 

Of course if we had Rogers as our QB we wouldnt have taken a QB, Idziks point was to take the top talent out of the 4-5 guys that they had their eye on which were all positions that we ultimately needed to satisfy (CB,WR,DT,LB). Jordan and Tavon were gone, deviating from the plan wasnt in the cards so he went with 2 of the 4 top players that the team evaluated. Nothing wrong with that. Now he specifically said that you take the best talent available in the 1st rd, I would also feel like that is kinda the same thing in the 2nd because the first 2 rounds you kinda expect those guys to be starters either day one or by year 2. As for the rest of the draft they get to really make things happen. I feel like we're jumping the gun (including myself earlier) when 95% of the offensive playmakers are still on the board.


im not going to kill my general manager when he has 6 more picks and a sea of offense to trade/pick from.


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#17 Villain The Foe

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:34 AM

We should have taken a center. Mangold needs company.

Anyway, this is about Dee Milliner. There's a I hate Idzik decisions thread somewhere on the board for you to put this.


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#18 pointman

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:37 AM

I absolutely understand and feel where you're coming from. I specifically wanted to trade down just so we could load up on offense at the back end of the 1st and in the 2nd. My question is this. Who would you have taken at the 13th pick that wouldnt have been considered a "reach" at that position? Betteryet, besides the reach, who would you have taken that you wouldnt haven been able to pick up possibly or someone close in the 2nd round? Lacy hasnt even been drafted, many people feel that Justin Hunter and Keenan Allen are better than Patterson and they're still there...not to mention the other overall WR talent available, many people felt going top 10 on a guard with this many holes in skill positions wasnt a good idea given that you could still get some in the later rounds. We all had a feeling that the Jets werent going safety in the first round so its no surprise, DT was actually a need etc. 

 

Of course if we had Rogers as our QB we wouldnt have taken a QB, Idziks point was to take the top talent out of the 4-5 guys that they had their eye on which were all positions that we ultimately needed to satisfy (CB,WR,DT,LB). Jordan and Tavon were gone, deviating from the plan wasnt in the cards so he went with 2 of the 4 top players that the team evaluated. Nothing wrong with that. Now he specifically said that you take the best talent available in the 1st rd, I would also feel like that is kinda the same thing in the 2nd because the first 2 rounds you kinda expect those guys to be starters either day one or by year 2. As for the rest of the draft they get to really make things happen. I feel like we're jumping the gun (including myself earlier) when 95% of the offensive playmakers are still on the board.


im not going to kill my general manager when he has 6 more picks and a sea of offense to trade/pick from.

I don't claim to be an expert on the draft. I can't say "we should have definitely taken XYZ instead, he would have been a good value at the pick". But I can say with certainty that I would not have taken a center, rb, dt, or corner in the first round. 

 

And yeah, I am with you. Trading down, all the way if our options came down to picking another DT at his value, or picking someone else who wasn't worth such a high pick. 

 

And DT wasn't a need. NT was. For us, in our 3-4 DT is basically a fatty that can shift out to DE. We need a legitimate fatty NT. 


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#19 pointman

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:38 AM

Anyway, this is about Dee Milliner. There's a I hate Idzik decisions thread somewhere on the board for you to put this.

I don't hate Idzik. I hate blowing two first round picks on positions we're set at. 


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#20 Villain The Foe

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:40 AM

I don't hate Idzik. I hate blowing two first round picks on positions we're set at. 

We werent "set" at either position. Are you honestly saying that Kyle Wilson and Kendrick Ellis were proven starters? Last I heard we traded Revis, and lost Pouha and Devito to FA


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#21 pointman

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:43 AM

We werent "set" at either position. Are you honestly saying that Kyle Wilson and Kendrick Ellis were proven starters? Last I heard we traded Revis, and lost Pouha and Devito to FA

Wilson was a proven starter last year. He is a former first round pick, who did a solid job last year. Don't get me wrong, I hate Wilson. But I sure don't think his play demanded a first round replacement when you take into consideration his play as a starter last year and the other needs on our roster.

 

Ellis isn't a proven starter. The issue is that you are seeing Richardson as a NT. He's not. He is a DT, like big Mo. 

 

Pouha and Devito aren't top echelon NT's. And again, we didn't draft their replacement.


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#22 Klecko73isGod

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:44 AM

The idea that we used BOTH our picks on defensive players where we are strong is the issue. I appreciate the idea of taking the best player available, but you gotta go with that to a certain extent and now when its time to go to the "second best player available". The Packers aren't going to take a QB first round, just to sit behind Rodgers. Taking a defensive lineman behind Coples and Wilkerson, our 2012 and 2011 first round picks when we run a 3-4.. is insane!! Or stupid. Either or.


Gotta slam on your brakes here for a second. The Packers once had a guy named Brett somethingorother firmly ensconced as their starting QB and drafted Aaron Rodgers in the first. So before you make the argument that you should reach for need instead of taking the best available player regardless of position, you may want to use an example other than the Packers and Aaron Rodgers to make that point.
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#23 pointman

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:46 AM

Gotta slam on your brakes here for a second. The Packers once had a guy named Brett somethingorother firmly ensconced as their starting QB and drafted Aaron Rodgers in the first. So before you make the argument that you should reach for need instead of taking the best available player regardless of position, you may want to use an example other than the Packers and Aaron Rodgers to make that point.

Argh. Damn it. Fair enough. I guess QB was a bad example. My point is... you get my point. Shut up! 


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#24 Villain The Foe

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:46 AM

I don't claim to be an expert on the draft. I can't say "we should have definitely taken XYZ instead, he would have been a good value at the pick". But I can say with certainty that I would not have taken a center, rb, dt, or corner in the first round. 

 

And yeah, I am with you. Trading down, all the way if our options came down to picking another DT at his value, or picking someone else who wasn't worth such a high pick. 

 

And DT wasn't a need. NT was. For us, in our 3-4 DT is basically a fatty that can shift out to DE. We need a legitimate fatty NT. 

I see your point. What I see the Jets doing is not simply playing a 3-4. Im seeing 4-3,3-4,46,4-2-5 etc. Having these pieces allows us to mix match, shake things up and stay fresh. Our front line can basically play every position and we just added a dude who not only could do that but can also play alittle LB.

 

This is what I mean about talent in the first. Its about that playmaker, that freak of nature. The difference between Richardson and Jordan/Ansah is that Richardson doesnt have huge bust potential written all over him. Not to knock those guys, if they were avalable at 9 or 13 I know for sure one of them would be a jet. My point is that the best talent was taken, and if the Jets decide to change defensive philosophy (Rex gone next year) then they've added talent this year who can make the transition rather easily.

 

I have a feeling that we need to ride with our GM on this one, thats all im saying.


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#25 Villain The Foe

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:49 AM

Wilson was a proven starter last year. He is a former first round pick, who did a solid job last year. Don't get me wrong, I hate Wilson. But I sure don't think his play demanded a first round replacement when you take into consideration his play as a starter last year and the other needs on our roster.

 

Ellis isn't a proven starter. The issue is that you are seeing Richardson as a NT. He's not. He is a DT, like big Mo. 

 

Pouha and Devito aren't top echelon NT's. And again, we didn't draft their replacement.

Again, Wilson's play didnt demand anything, but it wasnt like he was a Cro. It wasnt like he was a boarderline probowler. It wasnt like he did anything last year that warranted passing on the best CB in the draft that could have easily went #1 this year but was at #9 for the NY Jets. So on that note, the talent was there and he pulled the trigger. It is what it is. If Wilson was good enough he wouldnt still be hated.


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