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Dee Milliner: Sports Science.


Villain The Foe

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I think we're somewhat on the same page. I feel that if we had Cro/Revis then we wouldnt have taken Milliner. However, if you have Cro/Wilson then you take Milliner especially if you're holding the 9th pick and your top two players were just taken off the board. People think purely of the pick not taking everything in regarding how we got to that position. The 2 guys who would have filled a more significant need were already gone. So, Idzik filled a "not as big" need with an awesome talent. Again, I cant hate the man for it. I wanted Tavon or to trade down, but we got Milliner. I cant argue with that!

 

EDIT: I too have a problem with 2 defensive players, but I dont want them to forcibly reach for an offensive player when 95% of the offensive talent is still sitting there heading into the 2nd round.

 

You should put this statement in every thread.  It's dead on.  All these tears because they didn't take Eifert?

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This keeps the defense elite-capable, and does it without passing on any elite offensive prospects in R1. 

 

This draft just has no offensive depth.

 

Rex blabbing about Tavon cost us teh only offensive weapon I do think we genuinely wanted. Not sure WTF is wrong with Rex that he has to be liked so much by the players that he compromises our draft strategy by kissing their asses.

 

 

Everyone and their mother knew Pittsburgh wanted Jarvis Jones..  I heard Steeler players saying he was the pick before the draft.  Would Mike Tomlin be catching heat if the Jets had "stolen" him with the 13th pick?

 

Milliner was interviewed on SNY and he said Rex told him he'd be the pick at 9 if he was available.  Coples last year said Rex told him he'd be the pick.. etc etc..  I think Rex just tells them ALL they'll be the pick. 

 

Fact of the matter is the Rams are well aware of the Jets offensive deficiencies.  I'm pretty sure they already knew they had to jump the Jets to get Austin before yesterdays article.  To blame the trade on Rex's mouth is ridiculous.

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What really makes today sting is the fact that we let Revis go, Woody would not even allow us to negotiate with him.

 

From the champion of "Let him rot!" when he was holding out. Lol.

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You and Dom Shame are making it your mission to blame "Rex's mouth" for the reason we didn't get Austin..  It's sooo stupid.  Like your dumb faces.

 

I said it once, think about why I might have done that.... then shut up. 

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You guys realize the Jets need to defend against 3 wide formations, and TEs that catch now right? The secondary was over-rated without Revis last year, because every team ran the ball up our ass.

 

Milliner was a good pick. The disinformation on him in the past week was probably generated BY us to help drop his draft stock. 2 weeks ago he was being mocked top 5.

 

As far as taking Sheldon, the only player I would have taken over him there was Star or Jarvis, so I'm content with that pick. Though I would have taken less than fair value to trade back a spot or two get him and still add some later picks. Oakland did this, they took less than fair value and got the guy the coveted, plus added a pick.

 

Milliner would not have lasted to 13, he was the right value at 9, and a need.

I agree with the spirit of your post, but the idea that the secondary was overrated because our run defense sucked is a fallacy.

 

2012 - 494 pass attempts against for a 53.8 completion percentage and 6.5 ypa.

2011 - 507 pass attempst against for a 54.2 completion percentage and 6.7 ypa.

 

If anything, the completion percentage and ypa should have gone up with teams being able to run up our ass.

 

 

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Few years ago, is few years ago. Idzik didn't deal with him once. Cause past failed attempts, doesn't mean you assume the future attempts will fail too. You're awful presumptuous. Clearly you aren't serious.

 

He got $16mil from Bucs. You think he was going to accept $12mil from the Jets when he knows he can cash in the year after in FA? From a fans perspective, yes, we lost one of the greatest defenders our team ever drafted. But we didn't just lose him. We traded him, and got some value back. We get two players for him, and we also save about $14mil a year, or $84 mil over the next 6 years that can be spent on couple of other very good starters this team badly lacked. We could have used him 2013, but even my dead grandma knows Jets are in a rebuilding season, so there is no use of Revis here this year. Talking about "awful presumptuous", maybe you are the one assuming Revis would have taken a hometown discount? Yeah, hometown discount my ***. He'll hold out the moment someone signs a $17mil deal.

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Sports Science could make anyone look like a superstar.  I'm convinced they could do a series on Rex and make him look like a future all-pro. 

Having said that, you can't not like what you just saw.  Milliner appears to have unlimited potential and if his floor is an above average #1 CB (not saying it is, but projecting a bit here) then I feel better about the pick.

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He got $16mil from Bucs. You think he was going to accept $12mil from the Jets when he knows he can cash in the year after in FA? From a fans perspective, yes, we lost one of the greatest defenders our team ever drafted. But we didn't just lose him. We traded him, and got some value back. We get two players for him, and we also save about $14mil a year, or $84 mil over the next 6 years that can be spent on couple of other very good starters this team badly lacked. We could have used him 2013, but even my dead grandma knows Jets are in a rebuilding season, so there is no use of Revis here this year. Talking about "awful presumptuous", maybe you are the one assuming Revis would have taken a hometown discount? Yeah, hometown discount my ***. He'll hold out the moment someone signs a $17mil deal.

A long term contract, with guaranteed money, in a place he loves, wearing one uniform for the entirety of your career.. it all matters. You don't know til you ask. We didn't ask. Simple as that.

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You guys realize the Jets need to defend against 3 wide formations, and TEs that catch now right? The secondary was over-rated without Revis last year, because every team ran the ball up our ass.

 

Milliner was a good pick. The disinformation on him in the past week was probably generated BY us to help drop his draft stock. 2 weeks ago he was being mocked top 5.

 

As far as taking Sheldon, the only player I would have taken over him there was Star or Jarvis, so I'm content with that pick. Though I would have taken less than fair value to trade back a spot or two get him and still add some later picks. Oakland did this, they took less than fair value and got the guy the coveted, plus added a pick.

 

Milliner would not have lasted to 13, he was the right value at 9, and a need.

Milliner has had what... 5 surgeries? So the idea is the have him start opposite Cromartie, and have Wilson back to the Nickel? 

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A long term contract, with guaranteed money, in a place he loves, wearing one uniform for the entirety of your career.. it all matters. You don't know til you ask. We didn't ask. Simple as that.

 

Last time Jets tried to negotiate a deal, he didn't seem to love the place and signed a deal that paid him $42mil over the first 3 years. Revis is the last guy that would take hometown discount. Thats almost as true as a fact. He was not going to sign for anything less than $15-16mil a yr.

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Trade best Corner in the League aka Furture Hall of Famer ... To get a rookie CB.. 

Target more defensive positions when our TEAM is missing offense... 

 

Yes, it's a pass friendly league you want to defend .. BUT OUR OWN TEAM CAN'T PASS

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I absolutely understand and feel where you're coming from. I specifically wanted to trade down just so we could load up on offense at the back end of the 1st and in the 2nd. My question is this. Who would you have taken at the 13th pick that wouldnt have been considered a "reach" at that position? Betteryet, besides the reach, who would you have taken that you wouldnt haven been able to pick up possibly or someone close in the 2nd round? Lacy hasnt even been drafted, many people feel that Justin Hunter and Keenan Allen are better than Patterson and they're still there...not to mention the other overall WR talent available, many people felt going top 10 on a guard with this many holes in skill positions wasnt a good idea given that you could still get some in the later rounds. We all had a feeling that the Jets werent going safety in the first round so its no surprise, DT was actually a need etc.

Of course if we had Rogers as our QB we wouldnt have taken a QB, Idziks point was to take the top talent out of the 4-5 guys that they had their eye on which were all positions that we ultimately needed to satisfy (CB,WR,DT,LB). Jordan and Tavon were gone, deviating from the plan wasnt in the cards so he went with 2 of the 4 top players that the team evaluated. Nothing wrong with that. Now he specifically said that you take the best talent available in the 1st rd, I would also feel like that is kinda the same thing in the 2nd because the first 2 rounds you kinda expect those guys to be starters either day one or by year 2. As for the rest of the draft they get to really make things happen. I feel like we're jumping the gun (including myself earlier) when 95% of the offensive playmakers are still on the board.

im not going to kill my general manager when he has 6 more picks and a sea of offense to trade/pick from.

I would have taken Patterson at 13 and Vaccaro at 9 these two are the best at their position and its a need. Its not a reach if they are rated first at their position with all other targets have been drafted. This would allow us to still take Ertz in the second.

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Trade best Corner in the League aka Furture Hall of Famer ... To get a rookie CB.. 

Target more defensive positions when our TEAM is missing offense... 

 

Yes, it's a pass friendly league you want to defend .. BUT OUR OWN TEAM CAN'T PASS

 

We did not trade Revis for Milliner. We picked Milliner with our original pick and he was the best player on the board. Milliner is not here to replace Revis. No one can replace  Revis. He's just here to play as well as he can give us an upgrade at CB over Kyle Wilson.

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I'm really curious, for those who keep bringing up Milliner's surgeries while talking about how the Jets should have kept Revis instead, what exactly is the logic there?  You're talking about a massively more significant financial commitment to a guy who's had multiple injuries in the past few years.  Let's not forget, Revis has missed 17 games over the past three season.  Meanwhile, Milliner never missed a single game due to injury.  How exactly is he the more significant injury concern?

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He got $16mil from Bucs. You think he was going to accept $12mil from the Jets when he knows he can cash in the year after in FA? From a fans perspective, yes, we lost one of the greatest defenders our team ever drafted. But we didn't just lose him. We traded him, and got some value back. We get two players for him, and we also save about $14mil a year, or $84 mil over the next 6 years that can be spent on couple of other very good starters this team badly lacked. We could have used him 2013, but even my dead grandma knows Jets are in a rebuilding season, so there is no use of Revis here this year. Talking about "awful presumptuous", maybe you are the one assuming Revis would have taken a hometown discount? Yeah, hometown discount my ***. He'll hold out the moment someone signs a $17mil deal.

 

  Smart teams know how to negotiate.   Maybe he would have been greedy and only accepted 16mil,  but you don't know if you don't try.  

You could have given him some crazy contract that worked out to be 12mil per year but he still got his guaranteed money and more that turned out to really be more than $16 mil per year.   I mean he was only at 6mil per year, but he already received most of his contract money.    If they tried something like that, why not.  If Revis and his agents were still set on 16mil per year no matter what,  then they were the idiots.   But there are ways to negotiate without having it cost 16 mil per year, but he still gets his money.

 

 The Jets never even bothered to do that.  I mean did anybody expect Revis and his agents to accept No Guaranteed Money at all?

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I'm really curious, for those who keep bringing up Milliner's surgeries while talking about how the Jets should have kept Revis instead, what exactly is the logic there?  You're talking about a massively more significant financial commitment to a guy who's had multiple injuries in the past few years.  Let's not forget, Revis has missed 17 games over the past three season.  Meanwhile, Milliner never missed a single game due to injury.  How exactly is he the more significant injury concern?

 

 Lol. Come on. The guy missed an entire season due to an injury anybody can get.    So if Milliner gets injured in game 1 and missed the entire season, "oh great we got a rookie who is always injured."       It's one thing if Revis is missing a game here, a game there with nagging injuries.   The guy had an ACL tear early in the season.       He missed 14 games last year due to an injury.  This is why numbers can be misleading. 

 

  I don't see Milliner as some injury prone player.  It should be a worry that he had all these surgeries in college though.   A 20 year old kid bounces back far quicker than some banged up NFL 25 year old.     

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Trade best Corner in the League aka Furture Hall of Famer ... To get a rookie CB.. 

Target more defensive positions when our TEAM is missing offense... 

 

Yes, it's a pass friendly league you want to defend .. BUT OUR OWN TEAM CAN'T PASS

 

As mentioned, we drafted Richardson and a future 3rd rounder to replace Revis, on top of roughly 40 million dollars in cap space over the next three years.  I love Revis as much as the next guy (or gal), but for a team "rebuilding" Richardson, that draft pick and 40 million in cap space is more likely than not going to have a bigger effect on this team than one elite corner, no matter how good he was or is.

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  Smart teams know how to negotiate.   Maybe he would have been greedy and only accepted 16mil,  but you don't know if you don't try.  

You could have given him some crazy contract that worked out to be 12mil per year but he still got his guaranteed money and more that turned out to really be more than $16 mil per year.   I mean he was only at 6mil per year, but he already received most of his contract money.    If they tried something like that, why not.  If Revis and his agents were still set on 16mil per year no matter what,  then they were the idiots.   But there are ways to negotiate without having it cost 16 mil per year, but he still gets his money.

 

 The Jets never even bothered to do that.  I mean did anybody expect Revis and his agents to accept No Guaranteed Money at all?

 

Revis was very clear that he wanted to be one of the highest paid defensive players in the game.  Where was a potential negotiation going to come in?

 

"We think you're great, Darrelle.  But we only want to pay you like one of the top corners, not top Defensive players."

 

"No."

 

"OK."

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 Lol. Come on. The guy missed an entire season due to an injury anybody can get.    So if Milliner gets injured in game 1 and missed the entire season, "oh great we got a rookie who is always injured."       It's one thing if Revis is missing a game here, a game there with nagging injuries.   The guy had an ACL tear early in the season.       He missed 14 games last year due to an injury.  This is why numbers can be misleading. 

 

  I don't see Milliner as some injury prone player.  It should be a worry that he had all these surgeries in college though.   A 20 year old kid bounces back far quicker than some banged up NFL 25 year old.     

 

This actually isn't even correct.  Revis was hurt in week 1 last season, missed a game, came back and then got hurt again, which is when he was knocked out for the season.  He missed games in 2010 as well.  So that would be three injuries significant enough to cost him games in the past 3 seasons.  Meaning, even if you completely discount the ACL tear (which I have no idea why you would, since it could easily be a future issue for him), Revis has still missed far more time with injury.  I'm also pretty sure that pretty much any injury is "an injury anybody can get", so I'm not sure what you think that proves.

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All 5 surgeries were minor. And he did not miss a game. Just saying.

 

 

True.  I am not discounting the number of injuries, but it's not like he's had 5 surgeries to the same body part or shows chronic injury to the same body part.  

 

(1) He had a knee scoped once -- this is pretty much SOP for high level athletes these days. 

 

(2) Sports hernia -- as common as it gets in pro sports.

 

(3) Stress facture in his tibia.  Surgery is not usually necessary but is commonly conducted at the pro level to make sure it does not re-occur.  This involves putting a pin or nail in the bone, which virtually guarantees the injury will not happen again.

 

(4) The most recent injury was a small labra tear (right shoulder).  The reason for his not being ready to practice now is because he delayed surgery so he could participate in the Combine.  Surgery appears to be completely successful but rehab activity has been limited due to a busy pre-draft schedule.   

 

(5) He had previous surgery to his other shoulder.  I did not see any specifics, so I am going to assume it was minor.

 

Again, I am not ignoring the number of procedures, but he seems more dinged than damaged and it does not keep him off the field or effect his level of play.  So, I don't have a problem with the pick now that I have reconciled the fact that they went CB with the first pick.

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  Smart teams know how to negotiate.   Maybe he would have been greedy and only accepted 16mil,  but you don't know if you don't try.  

You could have given him some crazy contract that worked out to be 12mil per year but he still got his guaranteed money and more that turned out to really be more than $16 mil per year.   I mean he was only at 6mil per year, but he already received most of his contract money.    If they tried something like that, why not.  If Revis and his agents were still set on 16mil per year no matter what,  then they were the idiots.   But there are ways to negotiate without having it cost 16 mil per year, but he still gets his money.

 

 The Jets never even bothered to do that.  I mean did anybody expect Revis and his agents to accept No Guaranteed Money at all?

 

Here's the problem. Revis knows he will be a FA after the season (prior to the trade of course). Why should he take $12mil from the Jets when he knows he can cash in and make maybe even more than $16mil in the FA (keep in mind, the $16mil he signed was from one team with no other team driving his price up). We can be creative and offer him 6 years $72 mil deal with $30mil signing bonus but he knows he can get the same deal in FA from the Jets if he chose to. There's a reason why he did not want to be tagged.

 

And no, nobody expected Revis to sign a no guarantee deal. But he gets his wish of $16mil per for being the best defender in the league and now its up to him to perform at that level. Bucs get the opportunity to release him any second without paying him a dime, but that works out great for Revis as well. He can now test the FA and become an overpaid player in the league...again.

 

Jets get the best CB of the draft, and will pay him about $13-14mil fewer per year, or $80+mil over 6 years. You don't think Jets can use that money on other needs next year? Of course they can. Jets were fine without Revis last year and now they get Milliner on top of those CBs. Yeah, we lost and aging safety and a solid safety in Landry, but we signed his brother who can be adequate. And hope to draft another safety (Cyprien if he slips to 3rd?).

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True.  I am not discounting the number of injuries, but it's not like he's had 5 surgeries to the same body part or shows chronic injury to the same body part.  

 

(1) He had a knee scoped once -- this is pretty much SOP for high level athletes these days. 

 

(2) Sports hernia -- as common as it gets in pro sports.

 

(3) Stress facture in his tibia.  Surgery is not usually necessary but is commonly conducted at the pro level to make sure it does not re-occur.  This involves putting a pin or nail in the bone, which virtually guarantees the injury will not happen again.

 

(4) The most recent injury was a small labra tear (right shoulder).  The reason for his not being ready to practice now is because he delayed surgery so he could participate in the Combine.  Surgery appears to be completely successful but rehab activity has been limited due to a busy pre-draft schedule.   

 

(5) He had previous surgery to his other shoulder.  I did not see any specifics, so I am going to assume it was minor.

 

Again, I am not ignoring the number of procedures, but he seems more dinged than damaged and it does not keep him off the field or effect his level of play.  So, I don't have a problem with the pick now that I have reconciled the fact that they went CB with the first pick.

This. The key is he does not miss any time despite being hurt. The kid is tough and that's probably one of the best qualities he has.

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Wilson was a proven starter last year. He is a former first round pick, who did a solid job last year. Don't get me wrong, I hate Wilson. But I sure don't think his play demanded a first round replacement when you take into consideration his play as a starter last year and the other needs on our roster.

 

Ellis isn't a proven starter. The issue is that you are seeing Richardson as a NT. He's not. He is a DT, like big Mo. 

 

Pouha and Devito aren't top echelon NT's. And again, we didn't draft their replacement.

 

Point - Kyle Wilson chortles on moose cock. He's a half decent tackler but that's it. He'll even hurt us as a nickle or dime. He's not going to get any better.

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