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#26 jbone

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:57 PM

He also got a hell of a lot out of Devito.


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#27 HessStation

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:08 PM

5-2, 3-4, 4-3, 46, nickle, dime

Depends on the team, depends on the down.

You draft the most explosive, dynamic, versatile players you can find and move them around hiding alignments and gap responsibilities and creating mismatches by trying to confuse your opponent.

Edited by HessStation, 10 May 2013 - 03:29 PM.

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#28 JoeKlecko

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:23 AM

for those wanting a pass rusher, the league is changing. Dion Jordan and Barkevious Mingo get to the qb in 3.5 seconds. Problem is the ball is usually gone by 2.5. DC's looking to pressure the QB do so up the middle. The Jets didn't draft Sheldon Richardson to stop the run. In fact, he might not even be a starter in obvious running downs as a rookie. The hope is he gets one on one with a guard and beats his man. 

 

There's a lot of truth to what you say, but still, at 3.5 seconds, there's at least a chance that one or both can get to the QB in time.  With Pace, Thomas, Scott, Harris and the other dinosaurs that Rex has been throwing out there, who take something on the order of 3.5 days to get to the QB, there is no chance.

 

IMO, the best pressure is applied when you have players both coming up the gut and from the outside.


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#29 kelly

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:21 AM

what about Coples? 

 

work in progress :winking0001:


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#30 NJ

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:39 AM

Beaten like a rented mule on roller skates?   IDK


On draft night, I questioned the selection of Richardson.  After watching this tape, against the best OL in NCAA last year, getting lots of attention, the guy really impressed me.

 

Have to change my opinion.  Guy looks like he is going to be a great player. 

They (Tide) game planned against him well -  he had 2-3 bodies on him a lot of the time and still got some good things done. I think he's a got fantastic athleticism for his size and really like the pick.


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#31 NJ

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:47 AM

 The Jets didn't draft Sheldon Richardson to stop the run. In fact, he might not even be a starter in obvious running downs as a rookie. The hope is he gets one on one with a guard and beats his man. 

Kris Jenkins & Sheldon Richardson = apples and pomegranates as DT's


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#32 HessStation

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:09 AM

Kris Jenkins & Sheldon Richardson = apples and pomegranates as DT's


I hear you but should be noted Jenkins was only like, 305 coming out of Maryland. Both were second team all conference on crappy teams.
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#33 NJ

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:58 PM

I hear you but should be noted Jenkins was only like, 305 coming out of Maryland. Both were second team all conference on crappy teams.

I wan't aware of him until he was substantially plugging the middle for the Panthers, Hess. Was he ultra agile and they just threw a feedbag on him?


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#34 Il Mostro

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:14 PM

watch the alabama game tape

 

he got beat like a rented mule

 

pushed around like he was on roller skates

 

this kid has huge bust potential in my mind

 

 

Hardly.  Alabama did everything they could to run the offense away from Richardson.


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#35 SenorGato

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:41 PM

I wan't aware of him until he was substantially plugging the middle for the Panthers, Hess. Was he ultra agile and they just threw a feedbag on him?


Pretty much, yeah.
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#36 HessStation

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:05 PM


I wan't aware of him until he was substantially plugging the middle for the Panthers, Hess. Was he ultra agile and they just threw a feedbag on him?

I don't really know myself, I just remember seeing his weight in a prospect file and it was that weight. I was surprised too. And wasnt disagreeing with your original comment, I just thought it was an interesting tidbit.
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#37 SenorGato

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:13 PM

Oh and Jenkins was 315 coming out. It's on his NFLDraftScout page. Maybe more Wilkerson than Richardson actually...

Edited by SenorGato, 13 May 2013 - 05:14 PM.

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#38 _TAK3FL1GHT_17

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:23 AM

I really don't understand why people are hating on Richardson. Watching the draft, I was like every other jets fan "WHAT THE HELL!?!?" But now after I see there plan I couldn't agree more. They needed a consistent, every down player to opposite Wilkerson. And you can tell they planned on moving coples to OLB from the start. Coples productivity should skyrocket(even after leading the team in sacks last year) and he should net 9+ sacks with 80+ tackles. Wilkerson will be the best 3-4 DE in the league (unless JJ has another monster year). And Richardson will be a solid interior lineman. Star isn't durable and sharrif is a true nose tackle. They made the right choice.

Edited by _TAK3FL1GHT_17, 14 May 2013 - 02:25 AM.

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#39 JoeKlecko

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:43 AM

One of my questions or concerns with Rex is his using all the different formations and looks.  On paper it sounds fine.  Confuse opposing QBs, keep them off balance and wonder where the D is attacking from.  But how many truly "versatile" players are there?  There are very few who can excel in multiple systems/formations.  Some excel at one, but are mediocre (or worse) in another.  Some excel in one, and are simply average in another.  Few can do two or more formations equally well, because the different formations/systems require different abilities and tools on the part of the players.  It limits the pool of talent that one can draft.  We've all seen teams draft players who were very successful in one system or style of play in college, then ask them to play in a system or philosophy that's diametrically opposed to what they did in college, and that require a totally different skill set.  Time and again, those players wind up flopping as a result.

 

I'm hoping that Coples will succeed as an OLB or pass rusher, but with his questionable work ethic, I'm not gonna hold my breath.  Perhaps Rex wanted Richardson because he sees this as Coples' last chance with the Jets.  Maybe if Coples doesn't step it up this year, the Jets are planning on trading or releasing him.

 

If anyone can get his players to play in multiple formations/systems well, Rex can, but why do it?  How about he sticks with one formation until they can get consistent pressure on opposing QBs, can stop the run, and can get off the field on 3rd down, especially 3rd and long?  Then, and only then, use a second formation.  IMO there's an old saying that's very appropos here...Jack of all trades, MASTER OF NONE.  To be ultimately successful in using various systems, one has to have football players whose skills translate to various systems and alignments and who are smart enough to master and remember the intricacies of each.  I'm not convinced that most of the defensive players on the Jets have those abilities.  Rookies have enough to learn entering the NFL, why slow down that learning process and their development by throwing 50 million things at them?  That goes against sound educational/pedagogical principles.  Too, when Rex took the job, his mantra was "KILL" keep it likeable and learnable.  I don't think he has stuck with that at all.

 

I'm sure that some Rex defenders will hasten to add about Rex's D consistently being a top 10 D yada yada yada, but as Tom so capably pointed out, they earn that ranking beating up on the crummy teams.  Against the better teams they usually struggle, if not downright flop.  Statistics are misleading.  Top 10 Ds that are truly dominant don't get blown out.  They beat up opponents and make them respect them, if not fear them.  I seriously doubt any team in the NFL is afraid of Rex's D.


Edited by JoeKlecko, 14 May 2013 - 09:46 AM.

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#40 Thor99

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:53 AM

Yes, it's Coples last chance. In his second year. After a good rookie season.
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#41 JoeKlecko

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:46 PM

Yes, it's Coples last chance. In his second year. After a good rookie season.

 

We may think he had a good rookie season, but it doesn't sound like Rex did.  Remember that it took a long time for Coples to see much playing time, and until later in the season, his playing time was very spotty in spite of the fact that the Jets D was playing well below its normal level last year.

 

Idzik is changing the culture around the Jets.  With the cap space and number of draft picks he has at his disposal next year, he could very well trade or cut any player that he thinks isn't giving it his all or playing up to the level of which he's capable.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to see something along those lines.  With his mantra of establishing competition, getting rid of the circus atmosphere and trying to build a winner, Idzik is trying to see which players they can build around for the future.  I'm sure that he will keep tough, smart players, who have a great work ethic and character.  Gone will be those with questionable work ethics, characters and anyone from the previous regime that he doesn't think will be a fit with the culture he's trying to establish.  Would you build around a player who didn't give it his all and work to get better?  Would you stake your job and reputation on that?  I sure wouldn't.


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#42 stugotz81

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:32 PM

I do think Richardson will have a better rookie year than Milliner will.  Not saying I think Milliner will play really bad this year, I just think Richardson has a better chance to succeed in their rookie years.  I think ultimately Dee will be a great CB for us, but afraid he may get off to a little bit of a bumpy start.  Or at least it will seem that way as he will be in direct comparison to Revis and what Revis would have done on that play etc etc.


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#43 JiF

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 01:46 PM

Yes, it's Coples last chance. In his second year. After a good rookie season.

 

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#44 SayNoToDMC

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:24 PM

Yes, it's Coples last chance. In his second year. After a good rookie season.


Agreed, I wouldn't even promise him a roster spot. Let him compete and just cut bait if need be. I'd rather take a shot on younger hungrier player with some upside anyway.
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#45 stoicsentry

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:13 AM

One of my questions or concerns with Rex is his using all the different formations and looks.  On paper it sounds fine.  Confuse opposing QBs, keep them off balance and wonder where the D is attacking from.  But how many truly "versatile" players are there?  There are very few who can excel in multiple systems/formations.  Some excel at one, but are mediocre (or worse) in another.  Some excel in one, and are simply average in another.  Few can do two or more formations equally well, because the different formations/systems require different abilities and tools on the part of the players.  It limits the pool of talent that one can draft.  We've all seen teams draft players who were very successful in one system or style of play in college, then ask them to play in a system or philosophy that's diametrically opposed to what they did in college, and that require a totally different skill set.  Time and again, those players wind up flopping as a result.

 

I'm hoping that Coples will succeed as an OLB or pass rusher, but with his questionable work ethic, I'm not gonna hold my breath.  Perhaps Rex wanted Richardson because he sees this as Coples' last chance with the Jets.  Maybe if Coples doesn't step it up this year, the Jets are planning on trading or releasing him.

 

If anyone can get his players to play in multiple formations/systems well, Rex can, but why do it?  How about he sticks with one formation until they can get consistent pressure on opposing QBs, can stop the run, and can get off the field on 3rd down, especially 3rd and long?  Then, and only then, use a second formation.  IMO there's an old saying that's very appropos here...Jack of all trades, MASTER OF NONE.  To be ultimately successful in using various systems, one has to have football players whose skills translate to various systems and alignments and who are smart enough to master and remember the intricacies of each.  I'm not convinced that most of the defensive players on the Jets have those abilities.  Rookies have enough to learn entering the NFL, why slow down that learning process and their development by throwing 50 million things at them?  That goes against sound educational/pedagogical principles.  Too, when Rex took the job, his mantra was "KILL" keep it likeable and learnable.  I don't think he has stuck with that at all.

 

I'm sure that some Rex defenders will hasten to add about Rex's D consistently being a top 10 D yada yada yada, but as Tom so capably pointed out, they earn that ranking beating up on the crummy teams.  Against the better teams they usually struggle, if not downright flop.  Statistics are misleading.  Top 10 Ds that are truly dominant don't get blown out.  They beat up opponents and make them respect them, if not fear them.  I seriously doubt any team in the NFL is afraid of Rex's D.


WTF? Coples last chance? No team afraid of Rex's D?


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#46 JoeKlecko

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:10 AM


WTF? Coples last chance? No team afraid of Rex's D?

 

I said that perhaps REX sees this as Coples' last chance with the Jets.  Perhaps "last chance" is too strong.  I don't mean that he might get cut this season, but rather since the Jets are looking this season at who is going to be their core players in 2014 and beyond, and since Rex may not be around after this season, that if Coples doesn't step his work ethic up and play, that he might find himself a backup or role player or that Idzik might even decide that he doesn't fit into the Jets' plans long range.

 

I didn't say that I thought it was Coples' last chance or should be.  I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.  In his first few years as HC Rex NEVER called out a player in public.   There have been players who deserved to be called out in the media but weren't.  Now he's calling Coples out in the media.  That seems to be a drastic thing or last step for Rex, unless he's making a wholesale change in how he handles or motivates players or thinks that's the only way he can reach/motivate Coples.

 

In addition, both on this site and others a number of people have speculated that they don't see how Richardson could have been the BPA left on the Jets' board at their pick in the first round.  Whether or not he was, at the very least it's strange that after drafting Coples in the first round last year that they'd turn around and draft another DT in the first round this year and then change Coples' position.  Why not let them compete for the same spot since competition is supposed to be their mantra now?  Now maybe they had thoughts of switching Coples to OLB all along and felt they couldn't do that last year.  But Rex has made several critical comments of Coples and it took Coples a long time last season to see much playing time.  A lot of us were puzzled by that, particularly with the Jets' not playing that well last season.  Then again, even when the season was lost, Rex didn't play a lot of the young players to let them get experience or see what he had in them, so maybe Coples is no different.  

 

Rex doesn't seem to be that happy with Coples, and I'm just speculating why.  It seems that Rex isn't happy with Coples work ethic or play.  We all know he wants players with a non-stop motor.  Maybe he's thinking they may have made a mistake in taking him.  Maybe he never wanted Coples in the first place.  Maybe taking Coples was all Tanny's decision.  With Rex you never know what he really thinks because he says so much, and 2/3 of it is BS.

 

With regard to the last sentence, I truly believe that.  Why WOULD any team be afraid of Rex's D?  Sure, even without Revis last season they were good against the pass.  They were awful versus the run however.  When a team is afraid of playing another, it is usually because that D has a fearsome pass rush or is dominant and likely to shut them out.  Not since 2009 or 2010 have the Jets had any kind of real, consistent pass rush.  Usually the QB has all day to throw the ball and the Jets' pass rushers don't get to the QB until after he's already thrown the ball.  They don't have any real ball-hawking DBs.  Cro had one season, his rookie season, where he intercepted a lot of passes. Bush?  Allen? Wilson? Landry?  Team speed is better on D and at LB but only marginally.  Have the Jets ever shut another team out or really come that close to it since Rex arrived?  If so, I sure don't remember it.  I stand by that comment.  While teams may know that Rex may throw some new wrinkles at them and he will get a lot out of 2nd-rate players, the Jets don't have any real play-making studs on their D at impact positions and better teams know they can figure Rex's D out and have success most of the time.  Thus, I doubt any team "fears" playing Rex's D.
 


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#47 JoeKlecko

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:14 AM

This place, boyitellya!

 

This place indeed (and all Jets' football boards for that matter).  Why some posters have to go to lengths to show what jerks they are is beyond me.  When seeing a post they don't like, understand the intent, or disagree with, instead of respectfully asking questions of that poster to ascertain why they think that way or simply stating that they disagree, they get their panties in a knot and get snide and sarcastic (the lowest form of wit) and make it personal.  Such petty, immature, moronic behavior.


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#48 flgreen

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:31 AM

This place indeed (and all Jets' football boards for that matter).  Why some posters have to go to lengths to show what jerks they are is beyond me.  When seeing a post they don't like, understand the intent, or disagree with, instead of respectfully asking questions of that poster to ascertain why they think that way or simply stating that they disagree, they get their panties in a knot and get snide and sarcastic (the lowest form of wit) and make it personal.  Such petty, immature, moronic behavior.

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

I've been wondering what's been going on here all these years


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#49 SayNoToDMC

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:03 PM

This place indeed (and all Jets' football boards for that matter). Why some posters have to go to lengths to show what jerks they are is beyond me. When seeing a post they don't like, understand the intent, or disagree with, instead of respectfully asking questions of that poster to ascertain why they think that way or simply stating that they disagree, they get their panties in a knot and get snide and sarcastic (the lowest form of wit) and make it personal. Such petty, immature, moronic behavior.


I don't need to ascertain why you think JiF is a dick, I think that's the one topic we can all agree on
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#50 #27TheDominator

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 12:23 PM

The Jets did not have a real, consistent pass rush in 2009 and 2010.  During the Rex era they have had 32, 40, 35 and 30 sacks. Seems fairly consistent to me.  Shockingly, the numbers align perfectly with the amount of pass attempts against.  The Jets have never had much pass rush under Rex, yet they have still had good and great defenses.


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