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Coples as an OLB? Is Rex desparate or clueless here?


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#26 T0mShane

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:04 AM

You are finding fault with him for not turning out multiple pro bowlers on defense in all the years Rex has been here. The insinuation is that there has been failure after failure on this front. The reality is that there is a pool of THREE players to judge this by. One of those three is awesome, one is lousy, and one had been stuck behind a must-start player.

I've hardly been one to suck off Rex week after week, but show me another coach where 50% of the defensive draft picks that have started (and 33% of all draftees taken) have developed to pro bowl level within 2 years.


I don't think I limited it to defensive players and, as BG pointed out, I missed on McKnight anyway. My contention is that giving Rex the benefit of the doubt as it relates to developing young players is dubious. Part of it is opportunity--Tannenbaum's M.O. of overpaying a vet to take a rookie's job--but much of it is on Rex, IMO. Four years after Mangini was hired, Brick, Mangold, Revis, and Leon were already Pro Bowlers. And the general consensus is that Mangini sucked. But we're still supposed to give Rex a pass? Remember the whole "Rex Effect" angle, where talent was going to flock to Florham Park to play for this guy? Four years later and his program is already neck-deep into a total rebuild. As usual, I'm probably a year early into writing a Jets coaches eulogy, but it's pretty fair to start looking at Rex's body of work as it relates to player development and compare it to Herm's, who made a living on the backs of a previous regime's acquisitions, but who, likewise, drove the team into the ground when those players started to peel off.

Edited by T0mShane, 11 May 2013 - 02:05 AM.

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#27 SenorGato

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:04 AM

Cromartie improved significantly under Ryan.
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#28 T0mShane

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:36 AM

Cromartie improved significantly under Ryan.



You've improved under Ryan as well, SenorGato. Keep up the good work.
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#29 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:39 AM

I don't think I limited it to defensive players and, as BG pointed out, I missed on McKnight anyway. My contention is that giving Rex the benefit of the doubt as it relates to developing young players is dubious. Part of it is opportunity--Tannenbaum's M.O. of overpaying a vet to take a rookie's job--but much of it is on Rex, IMO. Four years after Mangini was hired, Brick, Mangold, Revis, and Leon were already Pro Bowlers. And the general consensus is that Mangini sucked. But we're still supposed to give Rex a pass? Remember the whole "Rex Effect" angle, where talent was going to flock to Florham Park to play for this guy? Four years later and his program is already neck-deep into a total rebuild. As usual, I'm probably a year early into writing a Jets coaches eulogy, but it's pretty fair to start looking at Rex's body of work as it relates to player development and compare it to Herm's, who made a living on the backs of a previous regime's acquisitions, but who, likewise, drove the team into the ground when those players started to peel off.

 

 

Jets HC 2009-2013 (most of these guys will get their first extended action in 2013):

  • Wilkerson
  • Ellis
  • Bush/Allen
  • Coples
  • Davis
  • Milliner
  • Richardson

Other noteworthy who were here before Rex arrived:

  • Pouha (didn't start - or do much of anything - until Rex got here)
  • DeVito (same thing)
  • Cromartie (caught a sh*tload of picks his first season starting with SD and had been pretty ordinary ever since.  Until Ryan got a hold of him; now he's one of the NFL's few shutdown corners and he even tackles now)
  • Revis (I'm sure he was going to be great anyway, but it's convenient to say he was going to be every bit as great in Ryan's absence.  Went from mere 1x pro bowler who wasn't even 2nd-team all-pro under Mangini to perennial first team all-pro, arguably the game's best defender at any position, and likely HOFer under Ryan)

Ravens DL coach 1999-2004, DC 2005-2008:

  • Ngata (round 1)
  • Johnson (round 4)
  • Scott (undrafted)
  • Leonhard (undrafted)
  • AdaliusThomas (round 6)
  • Dawan Landry (round 5)
  • Kemoeatu (undrafted; turned into a beast under Rex, parlayed that into a giant contract from Carolina, and was mediocre without Rex)
  • Will Demps (undrafted; started for half a decade)
  • Marques Douglas (undrafted then cut by NO; Rex turned him into a starter also)
  • Anthony Weaver (round 2)
  • Kelly Gregg (6th rounder cut by 2 teams, picked up off the street and developed into Baltimore's starting NT for almost a decade)

He's nowhere near perfect, and may very well be fired after this season, but the guy knows defense, is big on teaching technique and has coached up nothing and lower-talent players to be good and good players to be great.  If any offensive players developed really well here it would be incidental, as I doubt he played a major part in it beyond personal encouragement.


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#30 T0mShane

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 03:05 AM

Jets HC 2009-2013 (most of these guys will get their first extended action in 2013):

  • Wilkerson
  • Ellis
  • Bush/Allen
  • Coples
  • Davis
  • Milliner
  • Richardson
Other noteworthy who were here before Rex arrived:
  • Pouha (didn't start - or do much of anything - until Rex got here)
  • DeVito (same thing)
  • Cromartie (caught a sh*tload of picks his first season starting with SD and had been pretty ordinary ever since. Until Ryan got a hold of him; now he's one of the NFL's few shutdown corners and he even tackles now)
  • Revis (I'm sure he was going to be great anyway, but it's convenient to say he was going to be every bit as great in Ryan's absence. Went from mere 1x pro bowler who wasn't even 2nd-team all-pro under Mangini to perennial first team all-pro, arguably the game's best defender at any position, and likely HOFer under Ryan)
Ravens DL coach 1999-2004, DC 2005-2008:
  • Ngata (round 1)
  • Johnson (round 4)
  • Scott (undrafted)
  • Leonhard (undrafted)
  • AdaliusThomas (round 6)
  • Dawan Landry (round 5)
  • Kemoeatu (undrafted; turned into a beast under Rex, parlayed that into a giant contract from Carolina, and was mediocre without Rex)
  • Will Demps (undrafted; started for half a decade)
  • Marques Douglas (undrafted then cut by NO; Rex turned him into a starter also)
  • Anthony Weaver (round 2)
  • Kelly Gregg (6th rounder cut by 2 teams, picked up off the street and developed into Baltimore's starting NT for almost a decade)
He's nowhere near perfect, and may very well be fired after this season, but the guy knows defense, is big on teaching technique and has coached up nothing and lower-talent players to be good and good players to be great. If any offensive players developed really well here it would be incidental, as I doubt he played a major part in it beyond personal encouragement.

You'll forgive me if I'm not convinced that Rex turned Revis or Ngata into great players, or that Will Demps, Dawan Landry, and a bunch of jags like Marques Douglass are proof of Rex's coaching greatness. (Antonio Allen and Kenrick Ellis?) He did take Devito, Pouha, Gregg, and Kemoeatu and turned them into stout run defenders, which goes on the résumé, for sure, but that shows that he knows how to get gritty guys to...be gritty defensive tackles? The Ravens won the Super Bowl last year with their 3rd and 4th corners starting, and with draftees like Paul Kruger, Courtney Upshaw, and Dannel Ellerbe playing major roles. Maybe Baltimore just produces better mid- to late-round talent than anyone else, and that Rex had very little to do with it?

Again, Rex is a fine defensive coach with a fine defensive system, and I'm not disparaging his ability there. He's just wildly overrated as far as gurus go.
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#31 The Crusher

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 04:49 AM

When you know your offense will be anorexic ginger living in Alaska anemic you have to get creative and all experimental and sh*t on defense. Rex will make the defense sizzle this year.  


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#32 Kleckineau

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 04:58 AM

When you know your offense will be anorexic ginger living in Alaska anemic you have to get creative and all experimental and sh*t on defense. Rex will make the defense sizzle this year.

In order for this defense to sizzle Rex will need to eat something large and sh!t out a pro bowl safety or 2.
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#33 RSJ

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 06:08 AM

In order for this defense to sizzle Rex will need to eat something large and sh!t out a pro bowl safety or 2.

 

 Bush and Landry are going to play great at safety, imho. When I went to visit the Jets last year Kerley said that Bush was a young player that had the best chance to make a big impact in the league next year and I think Landry will return back to Baltimore form. I know its a log shot going on this info - but I kinda believe the guy who practices against him everyday.


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#34 The Crusher

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 06:36 AM

In order for this defense to sizzle Rex will need to eat something large and sh!t out a pro bowl safety or 2.

 

Let's see how that plays out.  Pretty sure until last year we never had a pro bowl safety under Rex.  I think a pass rush from the outside and some pressure up the middle to collapse the pocket might help as well.  


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#35 Smashmouth

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 07:59 AM

Cromartie (caught a sh*tload of picks his first season starting with SD and had been pretty ordinary ever since.  Until Ryan got a hold of him; now he's one of the NFL's few shutdown corners and he even tackles now)

 

 

 

 

 

Jets HC 2009-2013 (most of these guys will get their first extended action in 2013):

  • Wilkerson
  • Ellis
  • Bush/Allen
  • Coples
  • Davis
  • Milliner
  • Richardson

Other noteworthy who were here before Rex arrived:

  • Pouha (didn't start - or do much of anything - until Rex got here)
  • DeVito (same thing)
  • Cromartie (caught a sh*tload of picks his first season starting with SD and had been pretty ordinary ever since.  Until Ryan got a hold of him; now he's one of the NFL's few shutdown corners and he even tackles now)
  • Revis (I'm sure he was going to be great anyway, but it's convenient to say he was going to be every bit as great in Ryan's absence.  Went from mere 1x pro bowler who wasn't even 2nd-team all-pro under Mangini to perennial first team all-pro, arguably the game's best defender at any position, and likely HOFer under Ryan)

Ravens DL coach 1999-2004, DC 2005-2008:

  • Ngata (round 1)
  • Johnson (round 4)
  • Scott (undrafted)
  • Leonhard (undrafted)
  • AdaliusThomas (round 6)
  • Dawan Landry (round 5)
  • Kemoeatu (undrafted; turned into a beast under Rex, parlayed that into a giant contract from Carolina, and was mediocre without Rex)
  • Will Demps (undrafted; started for half a decade)
  • Marques Douglas (undrafted then cut by NO; Rex turned him into a starter also)
  • Anthony Weaver (round 2)
  • Kelly Gregg (6th rounder cut by 2 teams, picked up off the street and developed into Baltimore's starting NT for almost a decade)

He's nowhere near perfect, and may very well be fired after this season, but the guy knows defense, is big on teaching technique and has coached up nothing and lower-talent players to be good and good players to be great.  If any offensive players developed really well here it would be incidental, as I doubt he played a major part in it beyond personal encouragement.

 

First of all do you really think Rex had a say with the Ravens ? That team was full of hall of famers when Rex moved into his positions as DL/DC . Ozzie made those picks not Rex. Theres a reason the Ravens did not make Rex the HC and brougt in John Harbaugh. because harbaugh has a brain and knows how to MANAGE a fiitball team Rex has no clue. So while he may be a good DC and DL coach he lacks the Brains for what we need him for and thats to be the head coach of the WHOLE football team, not half of it or one thrid of it.

 

When it comes to Cromartie saying he tackles now is laughable. Ive seen him make a few hits last year on players in compromising positions in relation to him but if a RB is heading towards Cro with a full head of steam dont expect much at all. He will either crumble or avoid the contact any way he can. A few hits does not make a tackler ... Revis was a tackler, Cro will never be one . You also listed Cromartie as being here when Rex arrived and he was not.

 

Rex came to the Jets and we had Above average talent here. He also brought Leonhard, Douglas and Scott to help on every tier of the defense. Every year the defense has started to drop off and they have never stepped up in a big moment. They put up the stats but many times can't shut games down or get off the field on 3rd down. They are certainly NOT the Ravens by any stretch not even close.

 

You bring up the draft picks and say that the Jets have only drafted 2 defensive players per the last few years but those picks happen to be 4 defensive lineman in rounds 1 and 2 the past 4 years while impact skill players go undrafted on this team until the 4th + rounds. Only one that comes to mind is Stephen Hill in round 2 last year. Im certain Rex has little input on offensive moves since the Idiot constantly proclaims his ignorance on that side of the ball. The only good skill player added to this team in yearrrrrs is Jeremy Kerley and hes a nice player but hes not turning the league upside down either. 

 

Most teams that make it to, or have the talent to compete in the AFCCG should never drop off as fast as we did. After years 1 and 2 this team was a few skill players away from getting to a SB .... Who did we bring in ?

 

Year 2 -- Santonio Holmes - Pitt thought so much of him they basically dumped him for a 5th rounder --- Known Loudmouth

Year 3 -- Plaxico Burress - Fresh out of jail and 34 years old -- Jets do not re sign nor does anyone else --- Known Loudmouth 

Year 3 -- Derrick Mason - Loud mouth trouble maker 38 years old who Rex claimed would have 90 receptions yet he was released in week 4 --- Known Loudmouth

Year 3 -- Did not Sign Braylon Edwards --- Who was certainly trouble off the field but did have a good on the field relationship with our young QB. Certainly was not shooting himself in the leg at a night club. 

 

Lets use the Ravens as an example ...this team has been close for many years. They know they have a good defense so they set their sights on improving the offense and the skill players on that side of the ball. They actully tried until they hit it and won the SB the key to that SB and probably the most important move was bringing in Anquan Boldin who played lights out in the playoffs and they won it all. Boldin is a damn good WR and a good lockerroom guy ... The Ravens also did a great job handling Joe Flacco getting him Ray Rice and other Skill players on offense to help his growth as a QB.

 

The Jets in a similar situation with a very good defense and a few offensive players away from truly contending for a SB bring in IDIOTS and HAS BEENS and expect the same results and Its been laughable for the past 4 years and everyone seems to get this. Its the real reason we have the clown label.

 

Bottom Line --- The Ravens did it right ....The Jets did it wrong under Rex Ryans so called watch. They continue to do it wrong.

 

This team needs LB's and Safeties to which are the biggest holes on our defense so Rex Drafts yet another DT in this years draft ??????????? Dumps Revis (understandable to some extent) and Signs a rookie with Imnjury Problems and 5 surgeries in the past 3 years ???????  Im OK with Geno Smith and I hope he can really make a difference but who the **** is he throwing the ball too ? Certainly its about time we got some explosive RB's but neither one has shown the durability to make us rest easy .

 

I think Idzik stayed true to his board so I wont push to hard aganist the Richardson pick and he deserves the benifit of the doubt at least until year 3. But Im concerned about how our defense is being built and how our offense has been neglected, are we oncourse to ruin another QB ?


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#36 JiF

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:07 AM

Tom Shane getting smacked around is awesome!!!

Rex has had a limited amount of picks. 2 of his 4 we've actually seen play were in the 30 range and he did find/develop a pro bowler, he's just got robbed last season.

Also, there is no harm in playing players at different positions. So they learn a different position? How's that bad? He can just put him back where he's natural with no harm done. This OLB for Q is getting way to much attention. It's like, not a big deal. Good coaches find ways to get their best players on the field.

Edited by JiF, 11 May 2013 - 08:13 AM.

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#37 T0mShane

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:10 AM

Rex has had a limited amount of picks. 2 of his 4 we've actually seen play were in the 30 range and he did find/develop a pro bowler, he's just got robbed last season.



Yeah, it's shameful how few resources have been dedicated to the defense since Rex got here.
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#38 T0mShane

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:14 AM

Woke up about twenty minutes ago, opened this thread, had only the vaguest recollection of screaming about Rex Ryan at 3:50 a.m. on a message board. Really need to reevaluate where my life is.

That said, you Rex apologists are exactly like the Herm apologists in his last days, and it'll be amusing watching you people turn on Rex ex post facto the same way to rolled over on Herm.
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#39 JiF

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:16 AM

Yeah, it's shameful how few resources have been dedicated to the defense since Rex got here.


I'm on the phone or I'd do the research on this but the majority of Rex's drafts have been used on offense, trades and FAs too.

I've battled this correctly about 100 times when people claim he's ignored the offense. That's false. Like you. They just haven't worked out.
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#40 JiF

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:18 AM

Woke up about twenty minutes ago, opened this thread, had only the vaguest recollection of screaming about Rex Ryan at 3:50 a.m. on a message board. Really need to reevaluate where my life is.

That said, you Rex apologists are exactly like the Herm apologists in his last days, and it'll be amusing watching you people turn on Rex ex post facto the same way to rolled over on Herm.


You do need reevaluate. Nobody appologies for Rex. This whole board hates him except me.. You're just saying stupid sh*t.
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#41 T0mShane

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:34 AM

You do need reevaluate. Nobody appologies for Rex. This whole board hates him except me.. You're just saying stupid sh*t.


If you're the only one saying something, wouldn't that make you the stupid sh*t? Who are you on the phone with, btw?
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#42 slats

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:37 AM

Woke up about twenty minutes ago, opened this thread, had only the vaguest recollection of screaming about Rex Ryan at 3:50 a.m. on a message board. Really need to reevaluate where my life is.
That said, you Rex apologists are exactly like the Herm apologists in his last days, and it'll be amusing watching you people turn on Rex ex post facto the same way to rolled over on Herm.


Big, big difference between Rex and Herm and you know it. Herm is a clown on TV now, because that's the best job he can get - ever. He will never coach football again. He'll never be spoken about as a potential football coach. Ditto Mangini, who was maybe qualified to be a quality assistant coach when Belichick promoted him to DC.

Rex, OTOH, will -at a bare minimum- be a defensive coordinator in the NFL for as long as he wants to be one. And he'll be very good at it, too.

That said, I have to hand it to you. You're playing this like the skilled political operative you are; attacking Rex's strengths. You'll get the polls swinging in your favor in no time. Sperm's just throwing facts around. No one pays any attention to facts. Vitriol, that's what wins these debates. :)
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#43 Barton

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:39 AM

I think Shane's point is that its more than fair to question Rex's logic with this Coples move. His track record in developing defensive talent as the Jets Head Coach is nothing more than average.

 

And seriously, how many scouts made write ups on Coples being a potential 3-4 OLB? It is not his skillset. The idea of Coples covering a TE is laughable.

 

It may or may not work. But the point here is that its fair to question Rex.


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#44 Smashmouth

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:53 AM

I think Shane's point is that its more than fair to question Rex's logic with this Coples move. His track record in developing defensive talent as the Jets Head Coach is nothing more than average.

 

And seriously, how many scouts made write ups on Coples being a potential 3-4 OLB? It is not his skillset. The idea of Coples covering a TE is laughable.

 

It may or may not work. But the point here is that its fair to question Rex.

 

while I agree with you on your Coples assessment I dont think he will be used as an every down OLB I do not think thats Rex's intentions. He will be used in passing down primarily as a pass rusher in no way will he be covering TE's in any capacity unless he loses 50 pounds and lets just pray Rex did not ask yet another player to mess with his weight.

 

personally I think Coples is a DT along with Richardson and I think the Jets should sport a front 4 more often than not. with Wilerson DE Coples DT Richardson DT Insert DE   and run it in a rotation with Ellis giving breaks to Copeles and Richardson as needed rotating the DE spot in running/Passing downs would be a good idea as well but no need to rotate Wilkerson much he plays both run and pass well.

 

I like the front 4 better because it gives the players a chance to work the OL with moves during a game and make it more of a chess match than just beating them with brut strength or speed which is not easy to do.


Edited by Smashmouth, 11 May 2013 - 08:54 AM.

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#45 slats

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:17 AM

I think Shane's point is that its more than fair to question Rex's logic with this Coples move. His track record in developing defensive talent as the Jets Head Coach is nothing more than average.
 
And seriously, how many scouts made write ups on Coples being a potential 3-4 OLB? It is not his skillset. The idea of Coples covering a TE is laughable.
 
It may or may not work. But the point here is that its fair to question Rex.


You can question him all you want, but ranting about it in May before you've even read one little snippet from the Jet hating press about what Coples looks like and/or what his job is as an OLB is a wee bit premature, IMHO. The man is trying to figure out the best way to get Wilkerson, Richardson, and Coples all on the field at the same - while also improving the pass rush. A noble endeavor. As long as he's not asking Coples to change his body (a la Herm and Ellis), I'm pretty content to let Rex tinker.
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#46 T0mShane

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:18 AM

Big, big difference between Rex and Herm and you know it. Herm is a clown on TV now, because that's the best job he can get - ever. He will never coach football again. He'll never be spoken about as a potential football coach. Ditto Mangini, who was maybe qualified to be a quality assistant coach when Belichick promoted him to DC.

Rex, OTOH, will -at a bare minimum- be a defensive coordinator in the NFL for as long as he wants to be one. And he'll be very good at it, too.

That said, I have to hand it to you. You're playing this like the skilled political operative you are; attacking Rex's strengths. You'll get the polls swinging in your favor in no time. Sperm's just throwing facts around. No one pays any attention to facts. Vitriol, that's what wins these debates. :)

 

 


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#47 Smashmouth

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:36 AM

You can question him all you want, but ranting about it in May before you've even read one little snippet from the Jet hating press about what Coples looks like and/or what his job is as an OLB is a wee bit premature, IMHO. The man is trying to figure out the best way to get Wilkerson, Richardson, and Coples all on the field at the same - while also improving the pass rush. A noble endeavor. As long as he's not asking Coples to change his body (a la Herm and Ellis), I'm pretty content to let Rex tinker.

 

Not giving fat Boy a pass on this ....hes drafted 4 DT types in the past 3 drafts and now all of a sudden its OMG how am I going to use em ??? Ill tell ya what every great 3-4 defense is based around great LBS and the elite ones have some DL as well ....Ravens and 85 bears come to mind with great DL men in addition to great LB's ....Rex has chosen to ignore the LB position and when we did Draft a LB we drafted a 230 pound LB who really does not fit the scheme of a 3-4 defense since ILB in the 3-4 MUST take on guards regularly. Say all you want about Rex's genius and his eye on talent but they guy is NOT making logical decisions. Everyone uses the excuse (which is very easy to do) by saying Rex is unconventional and thats fine but there comes a point where that does not cut it.

 

In todays NFL where teams are starting to attack the middle of the field with TE's you better have a freakin LB with speed and a long wing span to cover those TE's currently we have NONE. Harris is a traditional ILB in the 3-4 and he excells vs the run everyone else on this LB squad is either a career back up or a washed up Calvin Pace. yet drafting 4 freakin DT with the top picks in the last 3 drafts makes sense ?


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#48 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:44 AM

You'll forgive me if I'm not convinced that Rex turned Revis or Ngata into great players, or that Will Demps, Dawan Landry, and a bunch of jags like Marques Douglass are proof of Rex's coaching greatness. (Antonio Allen and Kenrick Ellis?) He did take Devito, Pouha, Gregg, and Kemoeatu and turned them into stout run defenders, which goes on the résumé, for sure, but that shows that he knows how to get gritty guys to...be gritty defensive tackles? The Ravens won the Super Bowl last year with their 3rd and 4th corners starting, and with draftees like Paul Kruger, Courtney Upshaw, and Dannel Ellerbe playing major roles. Maybe Baltimore just produces better mid- to late-round talent than anyone else, and that Rex had very little to do with it?

Again, Rex is a fine defensive coach with a fine defensive system, and I'm not disparaging his ability there. He's just wildly overrated as far as gurus go.

 

Much of the reason for your criticism is that you blindly assume great players would have been just as great if they'd only had mediocre coaching.  If Coples had been moved to LB and worked out there, while in Baltimore, it seems you'd say well duh that Coples was a stud there and Rex had little to do with it. 

 

So what would convince you? It seems there is no convincing you, since there have been high drafted players, mid-drafted players, and undrafted players all pan out big-time while he was coaching them.

 

I tend think the opposite of what you do as his defensive coaching goes.  I think he's better at teaching than he is at developing strategy.  I've seen enough clips of him going over technique with a myriad of players, getting very detailed about it, and those are just little snippets in front of the camera.  

 

Conversely, if his strength was strategy it is my opinion that he wouldn't be such a train wreck on the offensive side of the ball and would instantly shoo away terrible offensive gameplans that he'd find so easy to defend if he were the opponent.  That isn't the case, though.  Our offensive gameplans - as well as who we hand the car keys to on offense, plus development of offensive talent - haven't been too marvelous.  

 

Though people only seem to point to Rex's personality, this is probably at least as much of the reason Rex was passed over in Baltimore.  Ozzie isn't just a GM; he's an ex-player and an ex-offensive-player.


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#49 slats

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:50 AM

Not giving fat Boy a pass on this ....hes drafted 4 DT types in the past 3 drafts and now all of a sudden its OMG how am I going to use em ???


I don't entirely buy into the premise that Rex was behind the drafts when Tannenbaum was here, and I definitely don't believe he had much -if any- input into this year's draft. The new GM gave him the gift of an athletic DT, and now it's Rex's job to get the most out of the talent he has available to him.

I'd expect the Coples to OLB experiment to be pretty limited in scope, and that if it's not paying dividends early, it'll likely be scrapped. When the season rolls around, I expect Coples to have his hand in the AstroTurf more often than not.
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#50 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:55 AM

Cromartie (caught a sh*tload of picks his first season starting with SD and had been pretty ordinary ever since.  Until Ryan got a hold of him; now he's one of the NFL's few shutdown corners and he even tackles now)

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all do you really think Rex had a say with the Ravens ? That team was full of hall of famers when Rex moved into his positions as DL/DC . Ozzie made those picks not Rex. Theres a reason the Ravens did not make Rex the HC and brougt in John Harbaugh. because harbaugh has a brain and knows how to MANAGE a fiitball team Rex has no clue. So while he may be a good DC and DL coach he lacks the Brains for what we need him for and thats to be the head coach of the WHOLE football team, not half of it or one thrid of it.

 

When it comes to Cromartie saying he tackles now is laughable. Ive seen him make a few hits last year on players in compromising positions in relation to him but if a RB is heading towards Cro with a full head of steam dont expect much at all. He will either crumble or avoid the contact any way he can. A few hits does not make a tackler ... Revis was a tackler, Cro will never be one . You also listed Cromartie as being here when Rex arrived and he was not.

 

Rex came to the Jets and we had Above average talent here. He also brought Leonhard, Douglas and Scott to help on every tier of the defense. Every year the defense has started to drop off and they have never stepped up in a big moment. They put up the stats but many times can't shut games down or get off the field on 3rd down. They are certainly NOT the Ravens by any stretch not even close.

 

You bring up the draft picks and say that the Jets have only drafted 2 defensive players per the last few years but those picks happen to be 4 defensive lineman in rounds 1 and 2 the past 4 years while impact skill players go undrafted on this team until the 4th + rounds. Only one that comes to mind is Stephen Hill in round 2 last year. Im certain Rex has little input on offensive moves since the Idiot constantly proclaims his ignorance on that side of the ball. The only good skill player added to this team in yearrrrrs is Jeremy Kerley and hes a nice player but hes not turning the league upside down either. 

 

Most teams that make it to, or have the talent to compete in the AFCCG should never drop off as fast as we did. After years 1 and 2 this team was a few skill players away from getting to a SB .... Who did we bring in ?

 

Year 2 -- Santonio Holmes - Pitt thought so much of him they basically dumped him for a 5th rounder --- Known Loudmouth

Year 3 -- Plaxico Burress - Fresh out of jail and 34 years old -- Jets do not re sign nor does anyone else --- Known Loudmouth 

Year 3 -- Derrick Mason - Loud mouth trouble maker 38 years old who Rex claimed would have 90 receptions yet he was released in week 4 --- Known Loudmouth

Year 3 -- Did not Sign Braylon Edwards --- Who was certainly trouble off the field but did have a good on the field relationship with our young QB. Certainly was not shooting himself in the leg at a night club. 

 

Lets use the Ravens as an example ...this team has been close for many years. They know they have a good defense so they set their sights on improving the offense and the skill players on that side of the ball. They actully tried until they hit it and won the SB the key to that SB and probably the most important move was bringing in Anquan Boldin who played lights out in the playoffs and they won it all. Boldin is a damn good WR and a good lockerroom guy ... The Ravens also did a great job handling Joe Flacco getting him Ray Rice and other Skill players on offense to help his growth as a QB.

 

The Jets in a similar situation with a very good defense and a few offensive players away from truly contending for a SB bring in IDIOTS and HAS BEENS and expect the same results and Its been laughable for the past 4 years and everyone seems to get this. Its the real reason we have the clown label.

 

Bottom Line --- The Ravens did it right ....The Jets did it wrong under Rex Ryans so called watch. They continue to do it wrong.

 

This team needs LB's and Safeties to which are the biggest holes on our defense so Rex Drafts yet another DT in this years draft ??????????? Dumps Revis (understandable to some extent) and Signs a rookie with Imnjury Problems and 5 surgeries in the past 3 years ???????  Im OK with Geno Smith and I hope he can really make a difference but who the **** is he throwing the ball too ? Certainly its about time we got some explosive RB's but neither one has shown the durability to make us rest easy .

 

I think Idzik stayed true to his board so I wont push to hard aganist the Richardson pick and he deserves the benifit of the doubt at least until year 3. But Im concerned about how our defense is being built and how our offense has been neglected, are we oncourse to ruin another QB ?

 

Yes, I do think he had say with the Ravens.  Otherwise they would have cut bait with him instead of promoting him to DC.  It is silly to think they thought lowly of him as a defensive coach with the "proof" being that they didn't make him their HC.  He was their DL for half a decade, and after that time they decided to promote him to a position he'd still hold there if the Jets (or someone else) hadn't hired him as HC.

 

Dumping Revis was more than understandable "to some extent" since there was exactly 1 NFL team willing to pass up on a 1st rounder + a 3rd rounder + 16M/year in cap room for the privilege of Revis on their teams.  Cromartie isn't a run-stopping beast, but he tackles a fuckload more now than he did before Rex got a hold of him.  Or do you think that is coincidence?

 

Rex is not the GM.  Idzik is.  While I'm sure Rex has some input, the decision is clearly Idzik's alone.  There is no way Rex would be ok with letting Moore & Slauson hit free agency (Moore in particular), and then sign 2 other veterans while using three consecutive draft picks on the OL.  There is no way on God's green earth that this is Rex's doing.  I believe that Milliner and Richardson were the 2 highest players on his board and that's why Idzik took them.  It had little to do with Rex pulling the strings.  Rex has also been in love with Sanchez to the point where he got that ridiculous tattoo on his arm.  So I don't think Rex wanted Geno Smith either.

 

The man behind the man is not Rex Ryan.  The guy is at least 50/50 to get fired at the end of the year so it is not believable that Idzik - in his first stint as a GM and handed a pretty crappy scenario - gave Rex control over his two highest draft selections and took the later ones for himself.  That is lazy thinking just because you saw a CB and a DT get drafted.

 

Rex has shortcomings, but quite famously he got ONE draft pick per year with Tannenbaum and as a dead man walking I doubt very much he got any with Idzik.  You are blaming Rex for his GM's moves.  That GM has been fired.

 

I find it amusing that you have no tolerance for a head coach who, at least on the defensive side of the ball, is thought of well throughout the league.  Yet you have endless tolerance for Mark Sanchez who the whole league and the whole country knows is a joke who can barely throw a football straight.


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