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RBs facing 8 men in the box. Another area we sucked in last season.


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#1 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:24 AM

A few days ago PFF published the percentage of times individual RBs faced 8 or more men in the box (min. 100 carries).  Unsurprisingly, two of the top 4 players were Jets.  The other two in that top 4 were Gore and Peterson, as though anyone needed another reason to acknowledge that those 2 guys are beastly.

 

Gore 42%  |  Greene 39% |  Peterson 34%  |  Powell 33%  [league avg = 23%]

 

Now obviously some of that is situation-based.  Certain down/distance combos are pretty much "must run" situations - or are treated as so by the defense anyway - and while I suppose it's possible that we had a greater percentage of must-run downs than others, until someone can prove it I'll assume we weren't so much different than ~30 others.  It seems to me there was a combination of Sparano making predictable calls from the sidelines (plus Sanchez's audibles at the line) plus a total lack of respect for our passing game, which is hardly shocking to Jets fans.  Teams stacked against the run against us, and usually did so with impunity. They knew what was coming, and if they guessed wrong, they still weren't going to get hurt badly by Sanchez.

 

The 2012 Jets couldn't run worth a damn against any team with any semblance of a rush defense.  It was a huge problem.  The personnel moves we've made on the OL, at RB, and in our new OC, plus the good possibility that Sanchez won't be our QB again, means the team has at least made efforts to address this problem from multiple angles.  In 4-6 months we'll see how good of a job we did.

 


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#2 T0mShane

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:35 AM

That's some really sad stuff right there. I saw the stat the other day where teams played 8 in the box significantly more against Kaepernick than they did against Alex Smith (Because Kaepernick runs, obv). So, that's the excuse the Niners have, and the Vikings have the All-World back. The Jets faced 8-man simply because Sparano was so awful. As bad as Sanchez was, Sparano did him no favors.
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#3 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:40 AM

That's some really sad stuff right there. I saw the stat the other day where teams played 8 in the box significantly more against Kaepernick than they did against Alex Smith (Because Kaepernick runs, obv). So, that's the excuse the Niners have, and the Vikings have the All-World back. The Jets faced 8-man simply because Sparano was so awful. As bad as Sanchez was, Sparano did him no favors.

 

7 games with 10 points or less.  It was disgusting.


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#4 New York Mick

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:58 AM

7 games with 10 points or less. It was disgusting.


Not what I wanted to read at 4am.
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#5 neckdemon

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 06:01 AM

7 games with 10 points or less.  It was disgusting.

 

 

i know....thats a pathetic stat


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#6 Smashmouth

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:04 PM

Of course this has nothing to do with the fact we marched out an incredible TE and some of the best practice Squad WR's in the NFL .


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#7 JADEDGREEN

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:08 PM

Sanchez Sucks.


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#8 flgreen

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:15 PM

Not what I wanted to read at 4am.

It's only 3:58

 

 

Have a drink, lots of time left


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#9 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 03:41 PM

Of course this has nothing to do with the fact we marched out an incredible TE and some of the best practice Squad WR's in the NFL .

 

No, it doesn't.  They were open plenty and Sanchez missed them (when he actually got rid of the ball, that is).


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#10 whodeawhodat

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 03:46 PM

A few days ago PFF published the percentage of times individual RBs faced 8 or more men in the box (min. 100 carries).  Unsurprisingly, two of the top 4 players were Jets.  The other two in that top 4 were Gore and Peterson, as though anyone needed another reason to acknowledge that those 2 guys are beastly.

 

Gore 42%  |  Greene 39% |  Peterson 34%  |  Powell 33%  [league avg = 23%]

 

Now obviously some of that is situation-based.  Certain down/distance combos are pretty much "must run" situations - or are treated as so by the defense anyway - and while I suppose it's possible that we had a greater percentage of must-run downs than others, until someone can prove it I'll assume we weren't so much different than ~30 others.  It seems to me there was a combination of Sparano making predictable calls from the sidelines (plus Sanchez's audibles at the line) plus a total lack of respect for our passing game, which is hardly shocking to Jets fans.  Teams stacked against the run against us, and usually did so with impunity. They knew what was coming, and if they guessed wrong, they still weren't going to get hurt badly by Sanchez.

 

The 2012 Jets couldn't run worth a damn against any team with any semblance of a rush defense.  It was a huge problem.  The personnel moves we've made on the OL, at RB, and in our new OC, plus the good possibility that Sanchez won't be our QB again, means the team has at least made efforts to address this problem from multiple angles.  In 4-6 months we'll see how good of a job we did.

 

yup, that was when we were supposed to go "over the top" on the defense.  ahhhh, promises unfulfilled....


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#11 JoeKlecko

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 04:07 PM

A few days ago PFF published the percentage of times individual RBs faced 8 or more men in the box (min. 100 carries).  Unsurprisingly, two of the top 4 players were Jets.  The other two in that top 4 were Gore and Peterson, as though anyone needed another reason to acknowledge that those 2 guys are beastly.

 

Gore 42%  |  Greene 39% |  Peterson 34%  |  Powell 33%  [league avg = 23%]

 

Now obviously some of that is situation-based.  Certain down/distance combos are pretty much "must run" situations - or are treated as so by the defense anyway - and while I suppose it's possible that we had a greater percentage of must-run downs than others, until someone can prove it I'll assume we weren't so much different than ~30 others.  It seems to me there was a combination of Sparano making predictable calls from the sidelines (plus Sanchez's audibles at the line) plus a total lack of respect for our passing game, which is hardly shocking to Jets fans.  Teams stacked against the run against us, and usually did so with impunity. They knew what was coming, and if they guessed wrong, they still weren't going to get hurt badly by Sanchez.

 

The 2012 Jets couldn't run worth a damn against any team with any semblance of a rush defense.  It was a huge problem.  The personnel moves we've made on the OL, at RB, and in our new OC, plus the good possibility that Sanchez won't be our QB again, means the team has at least made efforts to address this problem from multiple angles.  In 4-6 months we'll see how good of a job we did.

 

Interesting, and not at all surprising.  Thanks for posting that.  I agree.  If Smith pans out, hopefully that percentage will plummet like some players' draft stock.


Edited by JoeKlecko, 11 May 2013 - 04:09 PM.

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#12 Smashmouth

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 06:11 PM

No, it doesn't.  They were open plenty and Sanchez missed them (when he actually got rid of the ball, that is).

 

Say what you will sperm I wont defend Sanchez Stupidity but I will defend the fact he likely has the worst cast of skill players in the entire NFL. Once again he made some really boneheaded plays and his turnover ratio is putrid and he has not played well nor has he played smart.

 

One thing you seem to do is misinterpret my feelings on Sanchez . I don't defend his play, never have, I just want to see what he can do or if it would be any different with good players around him. Im not asking for Jerry Rice or Rodger Craig or Tom Rathman or even Brent Jones Im just asking for a few good players. because whether you want to admit it or not there is always the chance this kid has been totally mishandled.

 

That being said, if Geno Smith steps in and beats out Sanchez I would expect the same for Geno get the kid something he can work with and an OC with half a brain.

 

 

Interesting, and not at all surprising.  Thanks for posting that.  I agree.  If Smith pans out, hopefully that percentage will plummet like some players' draft stock.

 

Klecko that percentage will not drop until we get some players that other teams actully fear on offense. No fear of WR's = 8 in the box. Loud mouth Rex always stated the fact we were going to be a ground and pound football team and Shotty always the creative one would run run pass and put us in third and long's early in games on a consistent basis. It was so predictable it was disgusting. Even when using the Wildcat I just loved the fact when Sanchez started heating up right around the opponents 30 yard line Shotty would call some insane reverse or bring in the wildcat and take the entire offense completely out of rhythm. I know as a player that would deflate me especially if I were struggling. That was the reality of the Jets offense and Idiot Sparano was not much different.


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#13 JoeKlecko

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:24 PM

Say what you will sperm I wont defend Sanchez Stupidity but I will defend the fact he likely has the worst cast of skill players in the entire NFL. Once again he made some really boneheaded plays and his turnover ratio is putrid and he has not played well nor has he played smart.

 

One thing you seem to do is misinterpret my feelings on Sanchez . I don't defend his play, never have, I just want to see what he can do or if it would be any different with good players around him. Im not asking for Jerry Rice or Rodger Craig or Tom Rathman or even Brent Jones Im just asking for a few good players. because whether you want to admit it or not there is always the chance this kid has been totally mishandled.

 

That being said, if Geno Smith steps in and beats out Sanchez I would expect the same for Geno get the kid something he can work with and an OC with half a brain.

 

 

 

Klecko that percentage will not drop until we get some players that other teams actully fear on offense. No fear of WR's = 8 in the box. Loud mouth Rex always stated the fact we were going to be a ground and pound football team and Shotty always the creative one would run run pass and put us in third and long's early in games on a consistent basis. It was so predictable it was disgusting. Even when using the Wildcat I just loved the fact when Sanchez started heating up right around the opponents 30 yard line Shotty would call some insane reverse or bring in the wildcat and take the entire offense completely out of rhythm. I know as a player that would deflate me especially if I were struggling. That was the reality of the Jets offense and Idiot Sparano was not much different.

 

Smash, yes, whoever the Jets' starting QB is needs playmakers, but excellent QBs can make WRs better,  Look at the WRs that Brady has had to throw to.  With the exception of Randy Moss for a year or two, the rest have been a pedestrian bunch of JAGs.  I'm not saying that Smith will become the next Brady, but he brings a dimension that Brady doesn't...the ability to run with the football.  Whereas, SF is one of the teams that sees 8 men in the box the most, I think that as more and more mobile QBs become starters, this will change.  Once those QBs get past the LOS they have a long way to run, and I think Ds will start protecting against that by putting fewer men in the box and have more protecting the middle of the field 5-10 yards back off the LOS.

 

You're right about Schotty.  The guy is totally clueless and not qualified to coach in the NFL.  HIs reverses almost always lost yardage, and the wildcat formation was usually called for when Sanchez and the offense were starting to get some momentum and get on a roll.  There were many other things as well.  I can't believe that any knowledgeable football fan would still defend his incompetent ass, but amazingly there are still Jets fans who do.


Edited by JoeKlecko, 11 May 2013 - 08:29 PM.

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#14 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:34 PM

Smash, yes, whoever the Jets' starting QB is needs playmakers, but excellent QBs can make WRs better, Look at the WRs that Brady has had to throw to. With the exception of Randy Moss for a year or two, the rest have been a pedestrian bunch of JAGs. I'm not saying that Smith will become the next Brady, but he brings a dimension that Brady doesn't...the ability to run with the football. Whereas, SF is one of the teams that sees 8 men in the box the most, I think that as more and more mobile QBs become starters, this will change. Once those QBs get past the LOS they have a long way to run, and I think Ds will start protecting against that by putting fewer men in the box and have more protecting the middle of the field 5-10 yards back off the LOS.

You're right about Schotty. The guy is totally clueless and not qualified to coach in the NFL. HIs reverses almost always lost yardage, and the wildcat formation was usually called for when Sanchez and the offense were starting to get some momentum and get on a roll. There were many other things as well. I can't believe that any knowledgeable football fan would still defend his incompetent ass, but amazingly there are still Jets fans who do.

Look at the receivers Garrard had to throw to his whole career.

If only Sanchez had Matt Jones & Reggie Williams.
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#15 jason423

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 11:21 PM

7 games with 10 points or less.  It was disgusting.

 

People would get pissed when I would say it but last years Jets were Kotite bad at times. I cant remember if they had as many or 1 more, but it was right around the same number of blowout losses as those Kotite era Jets. 


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#16 jason423

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 11:30 PM

That's some really sad stuff right there. I saw the stat the other day where teams played 8 in the box significantly more against Kaepernick than they did against Alex Smith (Because Kaepernick runs, obv). So, that's the excuse the Niners have, and the Vikings have the All-World back. The Jets faced 8-man simply because Sparano was so awful. As bad as Sanchez was, Sparano did him no favors.

 

Part of the problem with the Jets as well is that they have been for the last few years one of the most predictable offensive teams in the NFL. I didnt run the numbers from last year but it didnt seem far removed from the Schotty game plans where you almost always run on first down and then on 2nd down in certain situations. Greene also sucks as a receiver and nobody worried about Cumberland (even though he put up a decent year) which allowed teams to cheat more too.  

 

Still the Jets were completely done in early in the year. Schilens would get open down the field, mainly because nobody cared about him, and then Sanchez would over or under throw him by 10 yards. So they didnt care. Its probably a reason why Kerley was able to get some big plays as somehow Sanchez seemed to get the ball to him.  
Still the one that irks me the most is when they still tried to use Tebow he had that one picture perfect throw to Jason Hill and Hill dropped it. Now I wouldnt expect Tebow to get a throw that good again, but they didnt even try. Every time Tebow was in they may as well have put 11 in the box. Every play was take snap, draw up  the middle. Yeah it was comical when everyone was bringing up their old Tebow stores from August where they talked about the great creativity of Coach Sparano. What a terrible coach and one almost every fan thought was a bad hire to boot. 


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#17 The Crusher

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 06:20 AM

Part of the problem with the Jets as well is that they have been for the last few years one of the most predictable offensive teams in the NFL. 

 

Great post as always from Jason but damn this sentence sums it up.  We have ALL sat and watched this team on offense and could literally see the play happen before they run it.  Even Mrs Crusher who no watches football that often will sit there and say, "Why are they running straight again?"  LOL  Mind boggling and infuriating.  


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#18 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:18 AM

It was mentioned before in this thread but i think the numbers are a bit skewed by the Tebow experiment.  TT = 8 in the box every time.  So whatever percentage of snaps he took, add that to the 8 in the box side of the ledger.  Also, once Holmes was IR'd, the downfield game was finished.  Add to the that, Sanchez being rattled early every game and the very mediocre OL play leading to pressure, fumbles, sacks (poor McElroy) and a skittish, inaccurate QB, no screen game or pass catching RB...I'd put eight in the box all damn day against the Jets.


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#19 unbanmadmike1

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:21 AM

Yet another byproduct of playing the worst QB in the NFL who amazingly had his comp% drop on passes between 0 to 5 yards. That is just mind bogglingly horrible.


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#20 JET80TV

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:00 AM

Look at the receivers Garrard had to throw to his whole career.

If only Sanchez had Matt Jones & Reggie Williams.

if only sanchez had been busted in that car w/ matt jones blowin coke and each other;)

Edited by JET80TV, 13 May 2013 - 02:00 AM.

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#21 Scott Dierking

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:24 AM

So wait, you advertise that you are going to be "ground and pound", yet teams stack the box against you? 

 

How can this happen?


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LOL ignorance is bless.

#22 The Crusher

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:28 AM

So wait, you advertise that you are going to be "ground and pound", yet teams stack the box against you? 

 

How can this happen?

 

 

They read your roster and watch game tape and go..  uhhh  whut?


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#23 unbanmadmike1

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:15 AM

So wait, you advertise that you are going to be "ground and pound", yet teams stack the box against you? 

 

How can this happen?

The Jets aren't going to be ground and pound this season even though they will have better personnel for that kind of offense. Marty likes to throw the ball. 


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#24 flgreen

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:22 AM

The Jets aren't going to be ground and pound this season even though they will have better personnel for that kind of offense. Marty likes to throw the ball. 

That is the funny thing about what the Jets are doing.  When they were running the G&P, crappy RB's. Now they are running the WCO, they bring a real RB in, have no WR's or TE's  Go figure


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#25 The Crusher

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:24 AM

That is the funny thing about what the Jets are doing.  When they were running the G&P, crappy RB's. Now they are running the WCO, they bring a real RB in, have no WR's or TE's  Go figure

 

 

 


It's a ... like.... a  process.  LOL


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