Eifert is the one that's gonna hurt.

[Matt39]

Brady wasnt that good last year

[Bleedin Green]

I'm not assuming anything is always anything.  Smith didn't have a lot of help at receiver, but he was pretty terrible as a rookie.  Just as Sanchez was pretty terrible for 4 years before that.  If a lousy receiver is wide open, and the QB misses him pretty badly, where it falls incomplete or is fairly easily picked off, that pass probably isn't completed if you replace Clyde Gates with Calvin Johnson. Megatron will bail a QB out of so-so passes, but awful passes still won't get completed.

 

The best example, and I've brought it up before, is Sanchez's predecessor at USC.  A far better and more polished prospect than Sanchez, Leinart was considered one of those "sure thing" types.  Supposedly deadly-accurate, with prototypical size, and was more "NFL-ready" than anyone since Peyton Manning.  Goes to Arizona where his WRs are Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin (both stud veterans already).  And Leinart still sucked.  Horribly.  Warner steps in and pretty much every full game he plays he's throwing over 300 yards/game.  With a sucky OL and a kind of sucky ground attack that scared no one.  Then enter the 2007 season.  They hand the job to Leinart again.  And he's awful again.  Leinart would start games, suck, then Warner would come in and pass the ball all over the field.  Then Leinart would get the starting nod the following week again.  Finally, after a few weeks of this nonsense, the starter decision is taken out of Wisenhunt's hands when Leinart breaks his collarbone.  Warner comes in again for good (except when he's banged up himself and Rattay comes in), and Arizona - despite the time wasted on Leinart (and Rattay) - finishes with a top-5 passing attack. 

 

No matter how good their receiving weapons were, you can't just stick a Matt Leinart or Tim Rattay in there and figure it's still going to be dangerous (or even reliable).  Same with Sanchez or (at least as a rookie) Geno Smith.  

 

A great pair of receivers doesn't make a bad QB into a good one.  A bad set of receivers hurts a good QB, but he'll still be good.  Look at Brady last year.  Julian Edelman? That's the secret sauce? Every other receiver on the team - including Vereen, their receiving "weapon" out of the backfield, not to mention Gronk, was either injured or vying for the league lead in dropped passes like that was their freaking intention.  Hernandez was in freaking prison and waited until after free agency and the draft was over in mid-June to do it.  There was no "consistency" there at receiver in any sense of the word. Nor at RB, where Belichick kept spitefully pulling & inserting this one or that one from game to game.  And they still finish with a top 10 passing attack, Brady's still a star QB, NE wins a dozen games and nearly gets to the superbowl.  Compare the Jets' receivers in Sanchez's "much improved" 2nd year with the 2013 Patriots' mess of receivers.  Brady would have had another 500-1000 yards with Edwards+Cotchery+Holmes+Keller and LT catching passes out of the backfield.  And the same crew here would be whining that we never gave Sanchez such a solid group of receivers.

 

A bad QB is a bad QB until such time as he ceases to be a bad QB.  Good or great receivers may hide things or make a QB's ineptitude less apparent, but they won't change him into a good QB.

 

Whoa whoa, ease up there fellow TL;DR'er.  I wasn't suggesting that you were making those assumptions; I was agreeing with you, while pointing out others around here often tend to make such assumptions that lead to some of the conclusions you were arguing against.  I think it's safe to say I know better than to ever accuse you of being a defender of Pennington or Sanchez, which are the individuals I was referring to (thus the reference to the "Penning-Chez conundrum").

 

My point was simply that many want to translate over both success and failure of players like receivers and act as if it occurs in a complete vacuum.  It's why we endlessly hear whining about lack of weapons regardless of how much better the Jets' players have performed with other QBs (e.g., 2 different receivers who became Pro Bowlers when no longer playing with Chad), while claiming it is all about the receivers and never the QB.  The point being that, this similarly applies to your point about Eifert.  It can't be assumed he'd put up comparable numbers with Geno, because his QB play would have been drastically different.

 

Trust me when I say I agree with every word of your argument here, and have been screaming the same since the birth of the so-called "Anti Chad Milita" circa 2005, so you don't need to convince me one bit.  There are simply a lot of people who fall in love with our QBs that want to come up with every excuse possible for the guys, therefore it is (incorrectly) assumed by those folks that the QB's performance has no impact on a WR's production.  It's the same reason why people scream about guys like Eifert or Allen and proclaim what difference makers they would be and assume their numbers would be just as good if not better (for some inexplicable reason), but then turn around and talk about the complete lack of weapons every time a previously successful receiver comes to the Jets and has their production drop.  It's the same reason that we all know there will be people ready by midseason, at the latest, to talk about what a complete bust of a signing Decker is when he comes nowhere close to matching his numbers with Peyton once playing with Geno.  It's an absolutely absurd concept, but you know it will happen anyway (and this is coming from a guy who is more than happy to give Geno this season to show what he's got).

[Matt39]

Ya'll are underestimating just how truly horrific this receiving core has been over the past 3 years. 

[ozzieny]

I'm not assuming anything is always anything.  Smith didn't have a lot of help at receiver, but he was pretty terrible as a rookie.  Just as Sanchez was pretty terrible for 4 years before that.  If a lousy receiver is wide open, and the QB misses him pretty badly, where it falls incomplete or is fairly easily picked off, that pass probably isn't completed if you replace Clyde Gates with Calvin Johnson. Megatron will bail a QB out of so-so passes, but awful passes still won't get completed.

 

The best example, and I've brought it up before, is Sanchez's predecessor at USC.  A far better and more polished prospect than Sanchez, Leinart was considered one of those "sure thing" types.  Supposedly deadly-accurate, with prototypical size, and was more "NFL-ready" than anyone since Peyton Manning.  Goes to Arizona where his WRs are Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin (both stud veterans already).  And Leinart still sucked.  Horribly.  Warner steps in and pretty much every full game he plays he's throwing over 300 yards/game.  With a sucky OL and a kind of sucky ground attack that scared no one.  Then enter the 2007 season.  They hand the job to Leinart again.  And he's awful again.  Leinart would start games, suck, then Warner would come in and pass the ball all over the field.  Then Leinart would get the starting nod the following week again.  Finally, after a few weeks of this nonsense, the starter decision is taken out of Wisenhunt's hands when Leinart breaks his collarbone.  Warner comes in again for good (except when he's banged up himself and Rattay comes in), and Arizona - despite the time wasted on Leinart (and Rattay) - finishes with a top-5 passing attack. 

 

No matter how good their receiving weapons were, you can't just stick a Matt Leinart or Tim Rattay in there and figure it's still going to be dangerous (or even reliable).  Same with Sanchez or (at least as a rookie) Geno Smith.  

 

A great pair of receivers doesn't make a bad QB into a good one.  A bad set of receivers hurts a good QB, but he'll still be good.  Look at Brady last year.  Julian Edelman? That's the secret sauce? Every other receiver on the team - including Vereen, their receiving "weapon" out of the backfield, not to mention Gronk, was either injured or vying for the league lead in dropped passes like that was their freaking intention.  Hernandez was in freaking prison and waited until after free agency and the draft was over in mid-June to do it.  There was no "consistency" there at receiver in any sense of the word. Nor at RB, where Belichick kept spitefully pulling & inserting this one or that one from game to game.  And they still finish with a top 10 passing attack, Brady's still a star QB, NE wins a dozen games and nearly gets to the superbowl.  Compare the Jets' receivers in Sanchez's "much improved" 2nd year with the 2013 Patriots' mess of receivers.  Brady would have had another 500-1000 yards with Edwards+Cotchery+Holmes+Keller and LT catching passes out of the backfield.  And the same crew here would be whining that we never gave Sanchez such a solid group of receivers.

 

A bad QB is a bad QB until such time as he ceases to be a bad QB.  Good or great receivers may hide things or make a QB's ineptitude less apparent, but they won't change him into a good QB.

you really should write a book

[Arsis]

Who the f is eifert?

[striper]

Now I'm really routing for Richardson.

Me too.

[Ghost]

If we had to do it again, I'd choose Sheldon and Warmack. Sheldon Richardson has been one of the most explosive rookies I've seen thus far.

[RutgersJetFan]

I think Richardson will be a nice player...

 

 

Pumped up Drew Gooden Part Deux.

[T0mShane]

Pumped up Drew Gooden Part Deux.

It's certainly on that path.