Gastineau Lives Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I too, believe in Mark Sanchez. I think he'll turn it around this year. To quote Mark himself: "Committing turnovers is alot like running head first into Brandon Moore's ass, you just...stop." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 First off nothing Joe could say will make anyone think worse or better about the Jets. We are going to be a goofball circus till we win again. "Winning cures all ills." Lets not argue, its not good for the kids. So lets just agree that its Obama's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Damn dude. Im sorry. I forget how intensely you pop wood for below average QB's. My bad. Please forgive me. Homer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 That just makes the knocks on Geno worse, being that he comes into the league with those knocks against him. His demeanor was major issue before he whined at the draft, announcing that he wouldn't show up the second day. There was a lot of talk about how he'd sulk when the team fell behind, he'd be off by himself, etc. He had 32 fumbles in college, and his small hands don't bode well in his transition to the pros in that regard. This remains to be seen. I hope the Jets are willing to invest heavily in the QB position next year if Geno doesn't immediately pan out, but I don't know that they will. Maybe if they fire Rex, that'll be easier to do. These points are fair. I guess I just think the criticisms are a bit overblown. If he had been drafted by any other team we wouldn't be talking about a moping QB. Him being pissed about getting drafted outside of the 1st round (warranted) don't mean much to me. If he was known as a guy who sulked throughout college, THAT would concern me, but that wasn't the case. He didn't get that badge of shame until he became a Jet. The fumbles are definitely a worry, and there's tangible proof that that's the case. I guess I'm just excited for something new. I'd rather see Geno suck terribly out there than see Sanchez take a single snap. That's where I'm at. We have no championship aspirations and are trying to put in a brand new foundation, so being excited about SOMETHING is better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 It is easy to say that second rounders should be starters, but in every draft teams grab players that fall our of favor and drop into the second round and some hit and some miss. With the Jets QB situation the most obvious weakness on the club, taking a high upside QB in the second round was a no brainer. Whether he makes it big or busts, it was an excellent pick taking into account the talent of the player and the needs of the club. I agree with this. We have to pick QBs until we get it right. Without a QB it will severely limit our chances to win it all. I know all the trent dilfer arguments but I would rather set aside 1 pick in each draft until we get ours. Don't see how this is a "wasted pick" but Joe Willie has forgotten more football than I will ever know. I think it was more to publicly back sanchez so that he isn't playing against the crowd every game although he will still have it hard at home when he starts the season. My hopes of him not starting the season with the way of Garrard's knee cartalidge, gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Namath is a terrible talent evaluator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stugotz81 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I do think were gonna see Sanchez to start the season and hopefully that will be the end of him and his headband from there. I just couldn't imagine the Jets not getting Geno in there once Mark begins to screw up and he is bound to screw up. Especially bc of the high scrutiny he will be playing under each week. Every single mistake will be magnified a million times more bc of that sh*t show he put together last year for us. Almost like everyone just sitting around and waiting... and waiting... for that interception so #7 gets the call come in. Like i think i saw Slats say before...Geno is a hit or miss thing....we either won the lottery by scooping this guy up in the 2nd or he was just a waste of a pick which was just our 2nd round pick so we won't be scarred for 20 years from it..........so if Geno can't git-r-done either, then off to scoop up our franchise QB next off-season. But ultimately, Geno has to play this year otherwise were not gonna know what the hell to do at QB! And the chances of Mark Sanchez turning it around and winning over Jets fans are highly doubtful...you probably have a better chance meeting T0m Shane before that happeing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 It's not exactly a bold statement to say that, if he plays, Sanchez will play better than last year. It would be virtually impossible for him to play any worse. Keep in mind, there is a very wide range of play we could see out of Sanchez that would be better than last year yet still qualify as absolutely awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Oh Joe... Distractions? Like guaranteeing super bowls while sitting on a beach chair and spending most of your time partying? Those kind of distractions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 This is what I've been trying to tell you all for awhile now... Sanchez can and will play better this year but it may be too late for him in NY. If Sanchez has his best year ever, which is certainly possible, that still does not preclude him from from being one of the leagues worst QBs. Therein lies the problem. It'd be hard for him to be AS bad as last year. That still won't mean he's capable of leading a team to a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 It's not exactly a bold statement to say that, if he plays, Sanchez will play better than last year. It would be virtually impossible for him to play any worse. Keep in mind, there is a very wide range of play we could see out of Sanchez that would be better than last year yet still qualify as absolutely awful. DAMMIT YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 What if Sanchez repeats his 2010 season, we win 10 games with a strong running game and defense...then what. I dont think its entirely impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 statistically speaking, 2nd round QB's aren't good bets. I think it's something like a 90% failure rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 We have a desperate need at QB. Geno has near-prototype physical ability, a ton of experience, and put up great numbers, and we got him a full round later than he was projected. That's the opposite of a wasted pick. But yeah, screw that. We should follow Uncle Joe into the breach and weaponize Senor Buttfumble. This thread is a lollercoaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 statistically speaking, 2nd round QB's aren't good bets. I think it's something like a 90% failure rate. Statistically speaking, 87.9% of all statistics are made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 The Jets had/have needs all over the roster. If Geno was the top player on their board, then good for them. If they passed over payers they had rated higher to fill a need, I don't like the pick at all. Hey, I hope they saw something in him that all the other QB needy teams in the league didn't, but I'm just not excited about him. The best thing about the pick for me is that it's taken all of the focus off of Dee Milliner, who, without the Geno pick, would probably be facing daily scrutiny here and in the media. +1 That was my big fear when the Jets took Milliner. No matter how good the kid was, his life was going to be made miserable by the fans and the media. The Revis thing was going to be murder on him. I'm not a Sanchez fan, never was. He had one of the worst seasons I can remember a Jets QB ever having. Sadly I believe he is still better then Smith. As you pointed out, he and Sanchez look like very similar QB's. Fumble a lot, don't deal with set backs well. The only thing I don't agree with is that " they saw something in him that all the other QB needy teams in the league didn't," If they had taken him at 9 or 13, or even if they had traded up when he fell to 33 to keep 2 other QB needy teams in front of them from taking him, I would agree they saw something in him. They didn't Think it just came to the point they knew they needed a QB, he was there, is a hit or miss big player, had value at 39, and rolled the dice. If they are going to go all in with him, and start him day one, it would be a monster mistake. I don't think they are. Marty said yesterday that he wanted the QB "competition" to be over before camp. Anyone who watched Smith play full games after week 5 last year knows he is not going to be an NFL QB in 6 weeks. If he ever will, it will be at least a year. More then likely 2. Jets will not do what the fans want here. They'll do the smart thing. Give Sanchez one more roll under the new offense. If he is totally ruined, and picks up where he left off, then they will have to go with Smith prematurely. That's where Garrard retiring hurt them. He was the back up plan if Sanchez falls thru his A H. Even though I don't like Sanchez, and hope they find a franchise QB, I have to pull for him to succeed this year. Tough spot for a fan to be in, but that's where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drums Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I've tried giving Sanchez the benefit of doubt but there is really only so much denial one can be in and after so many games last year, it's really hard to believe in Mark. I'm sorry but it's true. He can turn that around by playing well. That's all he has to do, but I don't know if he can for more than a few games against crappy teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 We have a desperate need at QB. Geno has near-prototype physical ability, a ton of experience, and put up great numbers, and we got him a full round later than he was projected. That's the opposite of a wasted pick. But yeah, screw that. We should follow Uncle Joe into the breach and weaponize Senor Buttfumble. This thread is a lollercoaster. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Didn't he say the Jets should've cut sanchez last season? Christ. Enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 What if Sanchez repeats his 2010 season, we win 10 games with a strong running game and defense...then what. I dont think its entirely impossible Sanchez's metrics were terrible in 2010, just like every other year. If they are a good team despite him like they were in 2010 that only proves that they could be better with better QB play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Sanchez's metrics were terrible in 2010, just like every other year. If they are a good team despite him like they were in 2010 that only proves that they could be better with better QB play. youre acting as if Rex looks at metrics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbanmadmike1 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 youre acting as if Rex looks at metrics Marty does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Statistically speaking, 87.9% of all statistics are made up. Fair enough. It's actually a 66% failure rate in the last 20 years. Better than I thought. 2013 2.7 Geno Smith - too soon 2012 2.25 Brock Osweiler - too soon 2011 2.3 Andy Dalton - good 2.4 Colin Kaepernick - good 2010 2.16 Jimmy Clausen - bad 2009 2.12 Pat White - bad 2008 2.25 Brian Brohm - bad 2.26 Chad Henne - bad 2007 2.4 Kevin Kolb - bad 2.8 John Beck - bad 2.11 Drew Stanton - bad 2006 2.17 Kellen Clemens - bad 2.32 Tavares Jackson - bad 2001 2.1 Drew Brees - good 2.21 Quincy Carter - bad 1999 2.19 Shaun King - bad 1998 2.18 Charlie Batch - bad 1997 2.12 Jake Plummer - good 1996 2.12 Tony Banks - bad 1995 2.13 Todd Collins - bad 2.28 Kordell Stewart - good No Second Round QB in 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2000, 1994, 1993 21 total 2nd rd QB in 20 years 2 too soon 5 good 14 bad 66% failure rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Didn't he say the Jets should've cut sanchez last season? Christ. Enough already. Not even close Joe Namath rips Jets' Tebow trade Updated: March 22, 2012, 11:40 AM ET By Jane McManus | ESPNNewYork.com Recommend240 Tweet34 Comments400 Email Print Joe Namath offered scathing criticism of the New York Jets' decision to trade for quarterback Tim Tebow as a backup for recently extended starter Mark Sanchez. "I do not agree with this situation," Namath said. "I can't agree with it. I just think it's a publicity stunt. I really think it's wrong. I can't go for it." Namath spoke to Michael Kay and Don La Greca on ESPN New York 1050 on Wednesday while the Jets and Broncos were trying to work through a snag in the proposed trade. Kay asked Namath if he hoped the deal would ultimately fall through. "Absolutely!" the Hall of Fame quarterback said. "And I'm a Tim Tebow fan! But I'm a bigger Jet fan than I am a Tim Tebow fan." Namath said he thought bringing Tebow in wasn't best for the franchise, in particular Sanchez. Clearly, Tebow's popularity would rival the current starter's, and add pressure that Sanchez wasn't expecting. "I don't think they know what they're doing over there right now," Namath said. "They give Sanchez a new contract, they pat him on the back and then they bring in two more quarterbacks." The Jets' attempt to acquire Tebow came less than week after they signed Drew Stanton to be Sanchez's backup. "I think Sanchez should be angry about what's taken place," Namath said. Namath noted that there had already been plenty of discord in the Jets' locker room, something that rookie backup quarterback Greg McElroy spelled out in a radio interview after the season was over. McElroy took a lot of heat for pulling back the curtain on the inner workings of the Jets. "Is this the Jets' way of shoving McElroy out of the way?" Namath said, "I'm baffled. I just think they're kind of mixed up over there, and I'm talking about the folks that are making the decisions. The owner of the team says they're not interested in Peyton Manning, and that's good, but meantime they end up being interested in Tebow? Come on, this is crazy." La Greca pointed out that Namath was no stranger to attention-getting moves when he was a player, but that his Jets also won a Super Bowl -- the only one in the history of the franchise. "It certainly seems like they're trying to make noise, get recognition," Namath said. "Well, win some games, win a championship [and] you get recognition." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Every so often a thread like this will start and everyone will rip Joe Namath as an old kook who is out of touch with the game. A few months later he's proven right and no one says a peep. I hope for the good of this team in the future, he is wrong about this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 One of the things that I agreed with Tannenbaum on was in his taking from Parcells/Wolf the idea that you draft at least one QB per year. I think it's a good policy especially when you DON'T do what Tannenbaum did EVERY year that he was the GM, which was trade away 2-3 picks which eventually leaves your team in the rebuilding mode like every 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 psh thats to well thought out of a post. i like the jets and i continually bash him so id have no problem with him bashing em. But to say something so blatantly false (sanchez is a good qb) is just sh*t. Now if he said mcelroy or geno are gonna be the next coming of peyton then we have something here. Namath is just being unconditional. Like the parent who's kid swings at a pitch in little league 9 feet over his head and the parents scream, "Good cut Horace." Joe is the Godfather of the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 That just makes the knocks on Geno worse, being that he comes into the league with those knocks against him. His demeanor was major issue before he whined at the draft, announcing that he wouldn't show up the second day. There was a lot of talk about how he'd sulk when the team fell behind, he'd be off by himself, etc. He had 32 fumbles in college, and his small hands don't bode well in his transition to the pros in that regard. This remains to be seen. I hope the Jets are willing to invest heavily in the QB position next year if Geno doesn't immediately pan out, but I don't know that they will. Maybe if they fire Rex, that'll be easier to do. so true because if he isn't fired you can rest assured that we will be picking another defensive lineman or maybe even an outside LBer if the right one is there at say number 4 or 5 where we'll probably end up picking. Just like I frigging KNEW he would do this April he will try and do again next April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Fair enough. It's actually a 66% failure rate in the last 20 years. Better than I thought. So, you've been saying Geno will be either Cam Newton or Jimmy Clausen, which is a false choice, imo. Newton is a 1st rounder, if anything you should be pushing polarizing examples of 2nd rounders, AND you should be considering a "too soon" as the outcome after 1 year with Geno, which given your arguments doesn't seem to be something he will be afforded. So to truly set the range of expectations for a 2nd round QB, it should be "he could be as good after 4 years in the league as Brees (because that's how long it took him to show up, or as good after 2 years as Dalton or Kapernick, or he could be as bad after 2 years as Jimmy Claussen, and the given here is that after one year he'll be as much of a question mark as Brock Osweiller". To be fair... and free of melodramatic extremes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 So, you've been saying Geno will be either Cam Newton or Jimmy Clausen, which is a false choice, imo. that's not actually the choice i put up. I said if you play him right away, he would be russell wilson or jimmy clausen. The Jimmy Clausen comparison because he was a 1st rd Qb that the internetz loved more than the league and supposedly should have gone earlier. But then the team is looking for a Cam next year after he craps out. Maybe Clausen would have been better with a year to learn? Maybe not... He will never be Cam Newton. Unless he has a growth spurt coming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 that's not actually the choice i put up. I said if you play him right away, he would be russell wilson or jimmy clausen. The Jimmy Clausen comparison because he was a 1st rd Qb that the internetz loved more than the league and supposedly should have gone earlier. But then the team is looking for a Cam next year after he craps out. Maybe Clausen would have been better with a year to learn? Maybe not... He will never be Cam Newton. Unless he has a growth spurt coming... Russell Wilson was also not a 2nd rounder, so it presents a similar issue with false choice. I believe you said Cam Newton the other day, in a different argument. I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Russell Wilson was also not a 2nd rounder, so it presents a similar issue with false choice. I believe you said Cam Newton the other day, in a different argument. I could be wrong. fine he could be Colin Kaepernick. If we are dreaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 fine he could be Colin Kaepernick. If we are dreaming. I'd settle for Dalton, with WEAPNOZZZ ZZ ZZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Joe Namath says NY Jets wasted a draft pick on quarterback Geno Smith To Namath, the Jets already had a quality quarterback in embattled starter Mark Sanchez and would've been better off filling other positions. Comments (1) By Ebenezer Samuel / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Tuesday, May 21, 2013, 8:43 PM. Jets' Sanchez brings a little Namath back to NY. Myers: Namath's talk right on the Mark. Namath: Mark it down!. Quarterback competition between Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith could be over before training camp: Marty Mornhinweg . . Joe Namath calls Gang Green’s prized rookie QB Geno Smith a “sensational athlete” with “good size.” And Namath also thinks drafting Smith was unnecessary. “No, I don’t think they needed a quarterback,” Namath said at the United Way’s 20th annual Gridiron Gala at the Waldorf-Astoria hotel on Tuesday. “They needed the other positions filled. Possibly offensive line. They got some defensive line. The safeties are still questionable. The outside linebackers are still questionable.” To Namath, the Jets already had a quality quarterback in embattled starter Mark Sanchez. Sanchez has struggled in the last two seasons. But Namath attributed that to “distractions.” “I am pulling for him,” Namath said of Sanchez. “I know that he can do better than he’s done. And we saw him lead a team to two AFC championship games, right? I also know what it’s like not to necessarily have the weapons you’d like to have, not to necessarily have the time you’d like to accomplish.” Mark Sanchez (r.) has a major ally in Joe Namath. Al Pereira/Getty Images Mark Sanchez (r.) has a major ally in Joe Namath. Namath said just a handful of Jets got a “passing grade” last season, naming linemen D’Brickashaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold and safeties Yeremiah Bell and LaRon Landry as players who did play up to expectations. The others, he seemed to say, didn’t help Sanchez last year. But Namath expects Sanchez to help himself, whether he does so as a Jet, or in another NFL uniform. “I know it’s a team game and I know Sanchez is going to play better,” Namath added. “I promise you you’ll see a different guy (this year). I believe you’ll see a different guy. “Mark’s not a puppy anymore,” he added. “He’s gone through some things, growing process. As far as Sanchez goes, even if he’s not with the Jets, he’s going to play as long as he wants to. He’s that good. As long as he wants to, he’s going to be in the NFL.” Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/namath-jets-wasted-draft-pick-smith-article-1.1351031#ixzz2Tzb6vdcj Anybody breathalyze Joe before the interview? I loved watching him play, but have loved nothing about him since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Fair enough. It's actually a 66% failure rate in the last 20 years. Better than I thought. STATS WITHOUT PERSPECTIVE FTW!!! 1995 1.3: Steve McNair: good 1.5: Kerry Collins: good 1997 1.26: Jim Drunkenmiller: bad 1998 1.1: Peyton Manning: good 1.2: Ryan Leaf: bad 1999 1.1: Tim Couch: bad 1.2: Donovan McNabb: good 1.3: Alkili Smith: bad 1.11: Dante Culpepper: good (being generous) 1.12: Cade McNown: bad 2000 1.18: Chad Pennington: bad (not having this debate) 2001 1.1: Michael Vick: good 2002 1.1: David Carr: bad 1.3: Joey Harrington: bad 1.32: Patrick Ramsey: bad 2003 1.1: Carson Palmer: good 1.7: Byron Leftwich: bad 1.19: Kyle Boller: bad 1.22: Rex Grossman: bad 2004 1.1: Eli Manning: good 1.4: Philip Rivers: good 1.11: Big Ben: good 1.22: JP Losman: bad 2005 1.1: Alex Smith: bad 1.24: Aaron Rodgers: good 1.25: Jason Campbell: bad 2006 1.3: Vince Young: bad 1.10: Matt Leinart: bad 1.11: Jay Cutler: good 2007 1.1: Jamarcus Russel: bad 1.22: Brady Quinn: bad 2008: 1.3 Matt Ryan: good 1.18 Joe Flacco: good 2009: 1.1 Matthew Stafford: good 1.5 Mark Sanchez: worst 1.17 Josh Freeman: bad 2010: 1.1 Sam Bradford: good (generous, again) 1.25 Tim Tebow: bad 2011: 1.1 Cam Newton: good 1.8 Jake Locker: too soon 1.10: Blaine Gabbert: bad 1.12: Christian Ponder: too soon 2012: Eliminating all for "too soon"... Obviously Luck and Griffin look Good. Tannenhill and Weeden too soon. 6 too soon 17 good 25 bad 25 bad out of 48 between 1995 and 2012 drafts. 52% Failure Rate... So, by your own measure, a 14% chance (slightly better than 1 out of every 10 picks) of finding a QB in round 1 than in round 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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