We cant start Geno with this group of WR's...

[JustInFudge]

Green was awful. Joe Mcknight lulz.

 

If were using McKnight as an example this argument should probably end now..because we have completely different opinions on quality skill position players.

 

How many 3rd round picks produced back to back 1,000 yard seasons or better yet, are still in the league?  How many 5th round picks led the league in a category of anything and/or are still in the league?

[Sperm Edwards]

Saints took Mark Ingram in the first round. Graham was a high pick with upside. Green Bay has pursued WR's relentlessly throughout the draft. Nelson was their first pick in 2008. Cobb a couple of years ago. Jones, Finley all were somewhat early picks. Lacey and Frankin this year....this teams dont ignore the offense.

 

Oh please.  

 

Graham was drafted at the very bottom of round 3.  He's a mid-round pick.  Stephen Hill is a high pick with upside.  The problem is he sucked balls, not where he was drafted.

 

And Mark Ingram sucks and has been a total bust.  You're now complaining that the Jets didn't use a first round pick on Mark Ingram? I'd use him as an example of why you DON'T just burn #1 picks on offense just for the sake of doing so.  Shonn Greene, unspectacular RB that he is, has been 5x the RB that Mark Ingram has been and he didn't exactly have Ingram's luxury of a lethal passing attack to clear players out of the box.  You use Ingram as an example of what a wise team does and mock the Greene pick though, when that assertion has no merit whatsoever.  Greene was a hundred-fold smarter pick than Mark Ingram.

 

We have dedicated just as many draft picks to offensive skill positions as everyone else.  The problem is who they got for those picks, not the use of picks in and of themselves.  Keller round 1, Hill round 2, Greene round 3, Edwards a 3rd and a 5th, Holmes a 5th.  Sanchez a 1 and a 2 and three players.  Clemens in round 2.  Now Geno in round 2. 

 

The problem is WHO they got, not the blanket acquisition of specific positions in and of itself.  A team who has that much invested in RBs and WRs and a TE - both in cap room and in draft picks - isn't going to then continue to use their top picks on those same positions.

 

Your argument about where productive people are acquired is not a compelling argument at all.

 

A franchise either has an eye for talent in a certain area or it does not.  We have not had that, in terms of passing offense.  No one is going to argue that except maybe Mike Tannenbaum.

[Matt39]

How many 3rd round picks produced back to back 1,000 yard seasons or better yet, are still in the league?  How many 5th round picks led the league in a category of anything and/or are still in the league?

 

You give any back 250+ carries theyll give you 1000 yards. What's more fascinating about Greene is the amount of carries he received and the complete lack of runs over 20 yards. Greene was so good here he took on a backup role on a bad team.

 

Just because Greene was the only guy to receive carries, doesnt mean its quality production. 

[Matt39]

Oh please.  

 

Graham was drafted at the very bottom of round 3.  And Mark Ingram sucks and has been a total bust.  You complaining that the Jets didn't use a first round pick on Mark Ingram? I'd use him as an example of why you DON'T just burn picks on offense just for the sake of doing so.  Shonn Greene, unspectacular RB that he is, has been 5x the RB that Mark Ingram has been and he didn't exactly have Ingram's luxury of a lethal passing attack to clear players out of the box.  You use Ingram as an example of what a wise team does and mock the Greene pick though, when that assertion has no merit whatsoever.

 

We have dedicated just as many draft picks to offensive skill positions as everyone else.  The problem is who they got for those picks, not the use of picks in and of themselves.  Keller round 1, Hill round 2, Greene round 3, Edwards a 3rd and a 5th, Holmes a 5th.  Sanchez a 1 and a 2 and three players.  

 

The problem is WHO they got, not the blanket acquisition of specific positions in and of itself.  A team who has that much invested in RBs and WRs and a TE - both in cap room and in draft picks - isn't going to then continue to use their top picks on those same positions.

 

Your argument about where productive people are acquired is not a compelling argument at all.

 

A franchise either has an eye for talent in a certain area or it does not.  We have not had that, in terms of passing offense.  No one is going to argue that except maybe Mike Tannenbaum.

 

I know Ingram sucks. But yes, we can end this right here if we both agree the Jets have been totally incompetent in recognizing offensive talent- whether it be the draft or FA.

[Sperm Edwards]

I know Ingram sucks. But yes, we can end this right here if we both agree the Jets have been totally incompetent in recognizing offensive talent- whether it be the draft or FA.

 

F*ck you for finally making a post I can't argue with.

[JustInFudge]

You give any back 250+ carries theyll give you 1000 yards. What's more fascinating about Greene is the amount of carries he received and the complete lack of runs over 20 yards. Greene was so good here he took on a backup role on a bad team.

 

Just because Greene was the only guy to receive carries, doesnt mean its quality production. 

 

Greene sucks.  No doubt.  But for a 3rd round pick?  The Jets got their value, I'm not sure you picking up on that point of this debate so I'm going to stop putting forth the effort.

 

<3

[Matt39]

F*ck you for finally making a post I can't argue with.

 

It happens occasionally

[Sperm Edwards]

It happens occasionally

 

Whatever we've been lacking in "offensive skill" positions, our garbage at QB makes that deficiency makes it 3x as obvious.  The fact of the matter is for all the Santonio Holmes bashing (mostly warranted), he was instrumental to Pittsburgh winning a superbowl.  He comes here, gets made a team captain by Rex, and is on the receiving end of Mark Sanchez passes, and then he sucks.  Sydney Rice was the 2nd-most sought after WR that year in FA.  He had only 1 good season, with Brett Favre, and can't stay healthy.  And he does a lot of nothing until he's finally healthy for a little stretch after Russell Wilson is drafted.  

 

Sorry, but the #1 reason for disparity in production is the QB.  

 

With a sh*tty QB, even a healthy top 3 WR is going to struggle to get 800 yards.

[SayNoToDMC]

You forgot Powell and the 2 picks traded for former 1st round WR's and Slauson who was found in the 6th round and part of an OL who produced the 2nd best run game in the league. 

 

People knock Greene, rightfully so, but the dude was crucial in both playoff runs and produced back to back 1,000 yard seasons with the worst QB in the league as a RB who saw more men in the box than any other RB in the league.

 

The bottom line is, Rex Ryan had 7 total picks in his first 2 drafts....7!  Of those 7, 6 were spent on offense.  Following year, he had 6 picks, 4 were spent on offense.   Thats a pretty heavy focus on offense, no matter how you spin it my friend. 

 

 

I did forget Powell, not on purpose and a Matt Slauson I'd say you can find in any round but this is a team that gave Vlad a first round grade so I'll admit that was a nice value/cheap production pick, but Bill Callahan gets credit for that one. Slauson was his guy. I would have loved to add another RB to my list it only helps me explain this perverse idea of team building Rex seem to have. There's also a reason former first round WR's are available, because their team don't want them. Our predicament with Holmes shows why the Steelers are contenders year in and year out and we're the Jets. Braylon couldn't sniff a starting lineup after leaving here, he also looked like the best WR on the field after coming back. What does that say about the rest of them? Rex builds the offense based of this stupid Ground and Pound mentality then hands off the responsibility to idiots like Schotty and Sparano

[SayNoToDMC]

Greene sucks.  No doubt.  But for a 3rd round pick?  The Jets got their value, I'm not sure you picking up on that point of this debate so I'm going to stop putting forth the effort.

 

<3

 

He actually cost a 3rd, 4th and a 7th. Trader Mike

[T0mShane]

That is an entirely different discussion.

Drafting a skill position specifically in round 1 is not the reason a team wins a superbowl or is a good offensive team (or is even a good team at all).

I was hoping the excessive "BAM" would indicate that I was being facetious.

[SenorGato]

It's amazing/ridiculous how Sanchez's sh*ttiness absolutely kills the stock of the other players on the roster. I can't believe how much time gets devoted to Weaponz, and if Weaponz haven't produced with Sanchez it for some reason reflects fully in the negative on them.

EVEN THEN the guy who DID produce is knocked for not being Calvin Johnson or something...Gold.

[Matt39]

It's amazing/ridiculous how Sanchez's sh*ttiness absolutely kills the stock of the other players on the roster. I can't believe how much time gets devoted to Weaponz, and if Weaponz haven't produced with Sanchez it's some kind of death sentence.

 

these weaponz that have moved on from the Jets havent produced in other players either.

[SenorGato]

these weaponz that have moved on from the Jets havent produced in other players either.

Who, Braylon Edwards? Moss and Coles did well for themselves.

[Matt39]

Who, Braylon Edwards? Moss and Coles did well for themselves.

 

Cotchery, Burress, Mason, Stuckey

 

Moss and Coles never played with Mark.

[SayNoToDMC]

Who, Braylon Edwards? Moss and Coles did well for themselves.

Moss and Coles? That's what you've got? How about when Keyshawn or even better John Riggins left and won SB's elsewhere. They where successful also and have as much to do with this current rosters weaponz as Coles or Moss.

[T0mShane]

Who, Braylon Edwards? Moss and Coles did well for themselves.

No sticks, no seeds.

[SenorGato]

Cotchery, Burress, Mason, Stuckey

Moss and Coles never played with Mark.

JAG - A good one for the Jets at that.

Retirement age

retirement age

JAG

What's the big deal here? I don't get the point being made. Leaving Mark should make them younger and healthier? Wouldnt they still be Jets if they were any good still?

Moss and Coles DID leave healthy and in their primes. Both played very well.

[slats]

JAG - A good one for the Jets at that.

Retirement age

retirement age

JAG

What's the big deal here? I don't get the point being made. Leaving Mark should make them younger and healthier? Wouldnt they still be Jets if they were any good still?

Moss and Coles DID leave healthy and in their primes. Both played very well.

Seriously.

We can start amassing evidence about players who suck with Sanchez and flourish elsewhere (or not) with Greene and Keller.

[SenorGato]

Moss and Coles? That's what you've got? How about when Keyshawn or even better John Riggins left and won SB's elsewhere. They where successful also and have as much to do with this current rosters weaponz as Coles or Moss.

Cotchery/Burress/Mason(seriously? He was a Jet for an hour)/Stuckey have nothing to do with the Weaponz now either. The Weaponz currently on the roster are the youngest group they've had in a long time and there are plenty of tools In the group. The bigger issue - always has been and always will be - is finding a guy who can get them the ball.

[Matt39]

Cotchery/Burress/Mason(seriously? He was a Jet for an hour)/Stuckey have nothing to do with the Weaponz now either. The Weaponz currently on the roster are the youngest group they've had in a long time and there are plenty of tools In the group. The bigger issue - always has been and always will be - is finding a guy who can get them the ball.

Wait. You think it's just about finding someone to get Hill the ball?

Have you watched Hill run?

[T0mShane]

Cotchery/Burress/Mason(seriously? He was a Jet for an hour)/Stuckey have nothing to do with the Weaponz now either. The Weaponz currently on the roster are the youngest group they've had in a long time and there are plenty of tools In the group. The bigger issue - always has been and always will be - is finding a guy who can get them the ball.

Sooooo, Mark Sanchez squandered his weapons, but those weapons sucked because they were old JAGs, but it's all Sanchez's fault. You guys and your consistency. Impressive.

[Matt39]

Sanchez is very, very bad.

The group of wr's over the past two years have been very, very bad. This years corp looks very bad.

[SayNoToDMC]

Cotchery/Burress/Mason(seriously? He was a Jet for an hour)/Stuckey have nothing to do with the Weaponz now either. The Weaponz currently on the roster are the youngest group they've had in a long time and there are plenty of tools In the group. The bigger issue - always has been and always will be - is finding a guy who can get them the ball.

 

I didn't defend any of those people, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say to me. You where trying to make a point that our skill position guys suck because Mark. My point is they all suck. Braylon didn't play at all after leaving here, I thought he looked like our best receiver when he came back last year. We're just bad....... at QB ...... at WR......... Worst TE group ever......... and the jury is out on RB. If anything Mason and Burress actually help point to what an awful job we do helping a young QB. I think sitting in a huddle with Mason, Holmes and Plaxico would break any 23 year old kids spirit. The whole point of this thread is to try and not let Rex **** up again with the new QB.

[T0mShane]

Sanchez is very, very bad.

The group of wr's over the past two years have been very, very bad. This years corp looks very bad.

Peyton Manning would have decapitated Holmes, forced Stephen Hill to the bench, and probably would have had Dustin Keller murdered.

[SenorGato]

Sooooo, Mark Sanchez squandered his weapons, but those weapons sucked because they were old JAGs, but it's all Sanchez's fault. You guys and your consistency. Impressive.

Where's my thing about Sanchez squandering anything again? I must have missed it. Got to love the consistency behind "we've never had no Weaponz and you need those to find a QB, it's not all Sanchez's fault" that still ends up concluding that Sanchez shouldn't even be in the QB competition. Makes perfect sense.

[Irish Jet]

Our WR's aren't that bad. At all.

 

They're far from being the weak point of this team.

[SenorGato]

I didn't defend any of those people, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say to me. You where trying to make a point that our skill position guys suck because Mark. My point is they all suck. Braylon didn't play at all after leaving here, I thought he looked like our best receiver when he came back last year. We're just bad....... at QB ...... at WR......... Worst TE group ever......... and the jury is out on RB. If anything Mason and Burress actually help point to what an awful job we do helping a young QB. I think sitting in a huddle with Mason, Holmes and Plaxico would break any 23 year old kids spirit. The whole point of this thread is to try and not let Rex **** up again with the new QB.

1 - The jury is out on all the positions.

2 - My point is that good QBs consistently make guys who suck consistently suck less. It's happened time and time again in this league and will happen here the second a QB capable of consistently completing a pass shows up.

3 - The WRs and TEs under Mark HAVE sucked because Sanchez sucks. I'm not even sure how that is debatable.

4 - I really cannot remember any JN memes more off than GM Ryan and Weaponz from this offseason. Stop making excuses for Sanchez only to turn around and still come to the "he sucks and shouldn't see the field" conclusion anyway.

[SayNoToDMC]

Where's my thing about Sanchez squandering anything again? I must have missed it.

 

 

It's

amazing/ridiculous how Sanchez's sh*ttiness absolutely kills the stock

of the other players on the roster. I can't believe how much time gets

devoted to Weaponz, and if Weaponz haven't produced with Sanchez it for

some reason reflects fully in the negative on them.

EVEN THEN the guy who DID produce is knocked for not being Calvin Johnson or something...Gold.

 

You're implying Mark killed their stock and made them suck, the suck had no reflection on the receivers. Then 5 minuets later contradict yourself by saying all the receivers hes had where JAG's or geriatrics.

[Matt39]

Our WR's aren't that bad. At all.

 

They're far from being the weak point of this team.

 

Kerley is the only WR on the Jets that would be a lock for every NFL roster. And he's our #1.

[SayNoToDMC]

1 - The jury is out on all the positions.

2 - My point is that good QBs consistently make guys who suck consistently suck less. It's happened time and time again in this league and will happen here the second a QB capable of consistently completing a pass shows up.

3 - The WRs and TEs under Mark HAVE sucked because Sanchez sucks. I'm not even sure how that is debatable.

4 - I really cannot remember any JN memes more off than GM Ryan and Weaponz from this offseason. Stop making excuses for Sanchez only to turn around and still come to the "he sucks and shouldn't see the field" conclusion anyway.

 

How many QB's in the league could we plug in with Tony Sparano and our skill guys last year that would have made us a top offense? Manning knew he could have a top 5 defense here and still didn't take us seriously as a landing spot. It doesn't have to be Mark sucks OR the receivers/TE's suck, there's plenty of suck to go around on offense. Mark shows nothing, I don't think it matters who we surrounded him with. That doesn't mean they didn't do the worst job I've ever seen at trying to bring a young QB along, so lets just do the same thing with the new QB we drafted because minus Mark Sanchez totally ruining our vast array of talented weaponz it's SB or bust.

[SenorGato]

You're implying Mark killed their stock and made them suck, the suck had no reflection on the receivers. Then 5 minuets later contradict yourself by saying all the receivers hes had where JAG's or geriatrics.

There are more productive JAG WRs and RBs in the league than there are productive JAG QBs. Super Bowls have been won with guys like David Tyree, Mario Manningham, Caldwell, Brandon Jackson, Ryan Grant, Brandon Jacobs...etc...Not so much with QBs.

[SenorGato]

How many QB's in the league could we plug in with Tony Sparano and our skill guys last year that would have made us a top offense? Manning knew he could have a top 5 defense here and still didn't take us seriously as a landing spot. It doesn't have to be Mark sucks OR the receivers/TE's suck, there's plenty of suck to go around on offense. Mark shows nothing, I don't think it matters who we surrounded him with. That doesn't mean they didn't do the worst job I've ever seen at trying to bring a young QB along, so lets just do the same thing with the new QB we drafted because minus Mark Sanchez totally ruining our vast array of talented weaponz it's SB or bust.

Tong Sparano has absolutely nothing to do with the 2013 Jets. The Jets of 2012 in general have nothing to do with the Jets of 2013. Manning has nothing to do with the 2013 Jets.

I do not buy that "Sanchez wasnt set up right" nonsense for a second. He walked into an elite OL and elite running game to not even give mediocre production. A young QB couldn't possibly ask for more except for a CJ/AJ/Green type of WR. Those types of WRs are gone in the first 2-3 picks of the draft, a place the Jets haven't picked for a decade+.

Once again, it is insanely easier to make due with JAG WRs and RBs than it is QBs. Teams win with JAG Weaponz all the time. Nobody wins or puts a lasting offense together without a QB.

[SayNoToDMC]

Tong Sparano has absolutely nothing to do with the 2013 Jets. The Jets of 2012 in general have nothing to do with the Jets of 2013. Manning has nothing to do with the 2013 Jets.

I do not buy that "Sanchez wasnt set up right" nonsense for a second. He walked into an elite OL and elite running game to not even give mediocre production. A young QB couldn't possibly ask for more except for a CJ/AJ/Green type of WR. Those types of WRs are gone in the first 2-3 picks of the draft, a place the Jets haven't picked for a decade+.

Once again, it is insanely easier to make due with JAG WRs and RBs than it is QBs. Teams win with JAG Weaponz all the time. Nobody wins or puts a lasting offense together without a QB.

 

Ok, so like Woody you see this year as a do over for Rex. The decisions from 2009-2012 have nothing to do with the 2013 Jets/Rex Ryan.

 

If you think surrounding a young QB who already displayed confidence issues with Mason. Plax and Holmes(The Captain) was a good idea then I need to bow out of this argument cause it's a no win situation.

 

I agree though, let me know how we get a top 5 QB and will definitely be better. I figure the only way to do that is through the draft and development but lets just throw the kid in there on a team with worse receivers then he had in college, a new offensive system and a significant step up in competition. I mean if playing poorly under those circumstances could in any way effect his confidence then he's the worst. Then next year if all goes well and he builds a little chemistry with his receivers we can replace them and sign a couple of aging malcontents to pair with Holmes instead.

[T0mShane]

Not enough anger in this thread. Where's Gaype?