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The Jets aren't going to be bad this season...


Maxman

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That is a possibility.

 

Personally, I would rather have a head coach who is willing to come in and fight through the greatest adversity, in order to be on the ground floor of rebuild process. I certainly wouldn't want Rey Ryan nursing my future team for a year.

 

No one here knows why the Jets chose to go this particular route.

 

You could personally want that, but any smart HC candidate knows the fans - and NY fans are no exception - are fickle.  He's not going to get a mulligan as HC in year 1 the same way Idzik is getting it.

 

Take over in 2013:  appearance in early January:

 

Lose Revis, still locked in to Sanchez for another year, still had Tebow, more than half the starting 22 aren't under contract for the upcoming year, and we don't have the cap room to buy nearly half our way out of the problem.  Also the upcoming draft is weak at QB, our most glaring need, as well as most other positions other than OL/DL.  The team didn't even have a new GM until the latter half of the month.

 

Take over in 2014:  appearance in early January:

 

Revis is no longer a factor.  Sanchez is gone.  Tebow is gone.  Santonio Holmes is gone if you want him to be.  Geno Smith is either a promising young QB or we're drafting another one early.  Draft will be deeper in offensive talent.  Will have $30-40M in cap room with Cromartie or about $50M without him.  Lots of young players brought in learned from Rex on defense and Morninweg (Morn-hin-weg) on offense.  Project WR Stephen Hill will be entering year 3.  Have all our original draft picks plus as many as 4 more compensatory picks plus either another 3rd (4th at worst) from Tampa Bay.

 

 

No matter how much you (understandably) want a new coach to desire adversity, position 1 is not as good of a career move as position 2.  The better/smarter coaches - the types you want, who are good enough to get to pick where they want to go - are going to be far more interested in the position that will make them look genius-like as soon as possible.

 

Even more so, who was this HC you wanted for this year? Last thing you want is the last guy who was grudgingly willing to take the job because we're the only one desperate enough to offer our HC job to him after we dumped Rex in late January, and we'd then be stuck with that bottom-of-the-barrel guy for 2-3 years.  Or did you just figure you wanted Mornhinweg (who was clearly available)?

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Gee, I don't know, maybe they were the top players on Idzik's board?

 

If Rex is gone next year and they draft a Defensive player first, does that mean that Rex is training his thoughts into the Jets braintrust?

 

You grasp at flimsy straws.

 

i know you are gonna shoot this down as GM speak or whatever but Idzik has been pro Rex all the way. 

 

Francesa: It’s unusual for a guy to come in and inherit a head coach. That’s an unusual situation. Did you find that an unusual situation?

Idzik: No, not really. Rex is an accomplished, experienced coach … I think it’s a great advantage to have a head coach who is ingrained in your roster, (who can) bring me up to speed very quickly. And plus, we have similar backgrounds. We’re cut from a similar cloth … I viewed Rex as an asset coming into this job.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/04/30/on-wfan-mike-francesa-asks-jets-gm-hard-hitting-questions-in-exclusive-interview/

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Even more so, who was this HC you wanted for this year?  

This is all moot because it is neither you nor I that is making the decision. I can and you can say all the different things why this year may be the best year to come in, or next year may be the best.

 

But, who does Idzik want? Was that man available this year? Will he be next year? These are things we will never know and can only speculate about.

 

If in fact Woody has tied Idzik's hands with Rex this year.

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i know you are gonna shoot this down as GM speak or whatever but Idzik has been pro Rex all the way. 

I didn't realize Idzik said that. You sold me. He is cuckoo over cocoa puffs about Rex.

 

Remember when Rex said Revis was not going to be traded, too?

 

Damn, these guys have a way of mincing words.

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i know you are gonna shoot this down as GM speak or whatever but Idzik has been pro Rex all the way.

Sal Paolantonio was with the Jets covering the draft and he told Mike Greenberg that "no way" were the first two picks decided by Rex, and that Idzik was just being super-conservative sticking to his board. The fact that every other move this offseason probably subverts Rex speaks to that.

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if Rex was a sure thing goner, why would the Jets take 2 defensive players in rd 1? after listening to the interviews, Idzik and Rex are both NFL coaches sons and they seem to have bonded on the senior-combine-proday circuit. the proof is in the pudding, Milliner especially is a Rex pick through and through. other teams use zone corners or whatever, Milliner is a press man specialist.

 

as for Revis, honestly I wouldn't have given Revis 16 mil per year but that's a different conversation than "is the team better"  don't know how anyone can look at this roster with this schedule and say they will be better. 

 

Garrard would have been extremely useful for the first 9 games and then ease Geno in when they play the browns and panthers. Instead it's either gonna be Geno thrown to the wolves or Sanchitio. Neither of which are good options. Keep in mind the Jets could have signed Ryan Fitz, Hasselbeck or a dozen other backups that changed teams this offseason.

It's fair to critique this guy for his signing. and Goodson too. We can only hope that the other signings are better. 

 

fwiw the signing that I think will be the best, that no one's talking about, is Barnes. 

 

If Rex was a sure-thing to stick around for a long time, then the area of need - the area Rex could not coach his own way to success - would be on offense.  A good defensive coach can make do with less on defense.  

 

Hasselbeck is a guy I would have liked to have signed and he didn't want/require more than a 2-year deal.  Let him play for a year until someone else is ready.  We had a starting job to offer and he took a backup job; even though his best days are behind him, he was a pretty good QB once.  He also has WCO experience, though I think any of these veteran guys have seen, practiced, and run every play imaginable after enough years in the league.  Fitzpatrick I had no interest in, though he signed a similar 2-year deal even cheaper than Hasselbeck did.  Clearly he would have been a better option than Garrard in hindsight, but I liked the Garrard signing.  It's really too bad he wussed out.

 

I'm one of those who views this season as a throwaway rebuild year and still I think there is a very good chance the 2013 Jets are better than the 2012 Jets.

 

Let's see if anyone shakes loose this weekend.

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Sal Paolantonio was with the Jets covering the draft and he told Mike Greenberg that "no way" were the first two picks decided by Rex, and that Idzik was just being super-conservative sticking to his board. The fact that every other move this offseason probably subverts Rex speaks to that.

When Tannenbaum selected Mike Nugent in the 2nd round, it was a vote of confidence in Mike Westhoff.

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I didn't realize Idzik said that. You sold me. He is cuckoo over cocoa puffs about Rex.

 

Remember when Rex said Revis was not going to be traded, too?

 

Damn, these guys have a way of mincing words.

 

I like you Scott and I'm going to feel a little sorry for you when Rex is extended long term but then we'll celebrate together when he brings us a Lombardi trophy.

 

Sal Paolantonio was with the Jets covering the draft and he told Mike Greenberg that "no way" were the first two picks decided by Rex, and that Idzik was just being super-conservative sticking to his board. The fact that every other move this offseason probably subverts Rex speaks to that.

 

Oh really?  Like who? 

 

Because what I've seen so far is a big NT, an OLB, a hard hitting safety with range.  Offensive lineman and RB's.  Which would indicate an emphasis on defense and running the ball.  And then the draft was very similar.  Defense, QB, trade for a RB and OL

 

which = LONG LIVE REX RYAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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This is all moot because it is neither you nor I that is making the decision. I can and you can say all the different things why this year may be the best year to come in, or next year may be the best.

 

But, who does Idzik want? Was that man available this year? Will he be next year? These are things we will never know and can only speculate about.

 

If in fact Woody has tied Idzik's hands with Rex this year.

 

It's hard to know.  Even if it was his decision, Idzik can certainly skate by with everyone believing Rex was forced on him.  But if you're a new first time GM and you have a major rebuild I can certainly see why you would want your own guy in there.  Then again, if you get to pick who you want no matter what the formerly-fat bastard says, then you're getting the team into a position to be attractive to a better HC.  As a first time GM, he's not only going to be judged by the talent he brings in on the field, but also by the HC he hires. That HC, if hired in Jan-Feb this year, was going to have a rough first year and Idzik would be tied to him.  Not just by the fans and the media, but by the owner who you told to eat Ryan's last 2 years so you could bring in this new guy.

 

I can go back & forth and come up with plenty of rationalizations why Ryan is still here.  Maybe he really thinks Ryan isn't all that bad and he just had sucky judgment in OC's and QBs; two responsibilities that Idzik is taking away from him by hiring his own OC and bringing in 2 new QBs (though we're now down to only 1).  

 

I know you're not in this camp, but it is entirely possible that Rex could be more than fine if he had a "HC of the offense" instead of an OC, plus a real QB.  We got to the AFCCG twice with neither under Rex's watch.

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The QB situation will improve, it has to improve a ton to win the Super Bowl, but marginal improvements whether it be Sanchez or Smith, will get the Jets in the playoffs.

 

)

I wish I could agree with you, but realistically, Sanchez showed last year that he's just a bad QB. He made mistakes last year that were so fundamental that it became clear to me that he really can't be taught how not to make them - it would be like trying to teach a turtle how to sprint. Also, the Jets no longer have the talent around him to cover up his his suckiness at the QB position. The best hope is Geno Smih, who perhaps could have a Ryan Tannehill-like rookie year.

Sorry, I really wish I could agree with you, but there are too many things wrong with the Jets right now. I'm hoping for a season in which the Jets are at least heading in the right direction.

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I wish I could agree with you, but realistically, Sanchez showed last year that he's just a bad QB. He made mistakes last year that were so fundamental that it became clear to me that he really can't be taught how not to make them - it would be like trying to teach a turtle how to sprint. Also, the Jets no longer have the talent around him to cover up his his suckiness at the QB position. The best hope is Geno Smih, who perhaps could have a Ryan Tannehill-like rookie year.

Sorry, I really wish I could agree with you, but there are too many things wrong with the Jets right now. I'm hoping for a season in which the Jets are at least heading in the right direction.

 

If that is true then the QB situation can still improve by plugging in Geno.  :)  It just can't be as bad as last season!

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I didn't realize Idzik said that. You sold me. He is cuckoo over cocoa puffs about Rex.

 

Remember when Rex said Revis was not going to be traded, too?

 

Damn, these guys have a way of mincing words.

 

We differ on other issues but the Jets in 2013? what say ye, SD? 

 

We are both in agreement the Jets are gonna be awful this year. And depending on how bad, that might indeed lead to the firing of Rex Ryan.  You are taking the under on vegas 7 wins? Make a call buddy.

 

I'm going under. they are gonna be bad. Maybe they sneak to 7 with some sort of late run after the bye. But even that seems hopeful.  

 

as for the GM and the HC, exhibit A... both Rex and Idzik were NY Jets Ball boys in the 70's (albeit, not at the same time). They were both sons of Jets coaches and they are both Jets employees right now. It's a very specific shared history.

 

The NFL is rife with nepotism and It's coincidental to be sure, but it's undeniably a common experience that these two men have. 

 

exhibit B is the draft.

 

some history John Idzik picked Richard Sherman in rd 5 and found Brandon Browner on the street. He traded Aqib Talib when he was with the Bucs. Historically, CB is not a position he has valued with a first round pick.  If you guys want to find embarassing threads, find the threads where I tell people this story before the draft. Believing it to be an accurate assessment of what this man might do on draft day.

 

with the benefit of hindsight, Idzik was probably targeting Mingo as a Bruce Irvin type of pick. every mock had Mingo

 

but man, gotta kick myself for not predicting CB in the mock draft. Milliner was falling and it's the one position Rex always bangs the table.  

 

Say what you will about best available whatever, a man to man CB at 9 is what Ozzie Newsome predicted 10 years ago. Rex Ryan wants CB's every year. 

 
They drafted a CB first and then a pass rushing DT, that's a Rex Ryan situation.  Yes it's possible Rex sat quietly, said nothing (ha) and Idzik drafted 2 defenders on his own.  Not considering his current defensive system or current head coach. 
 
But think about how unlikely that sounds.
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If that is true then the QB situation can still improve by plugging in Geno.  :)  It just can't be as bad as last season!

 

I agree in that in completions are better than turnovers. a 30% completion rate and 1 INt is better than 60% and 3 ints.  im more concerned that Geno isn't ready. We are gonna see Mark one way or the other. they really needed Garrard. 

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Oh really? Like who?

Because what I've seen so far is a big NT, an OLB, a hard hitting safety with range. Offensive lineman and RB's. Which would indicate an emphasis on defense and running the ball. And then the draft was very similar. Defense, QB, trade for a RB and OL

which = LONG LIVE REX RYAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't be fatuous, Jeffrey.

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I agree in that in completions are better than turnovers. a 30% completion rate and 1 INt is better than 60% and 3 ints.  im more concerned that Geno isn't ready. We are gonna see Mark one way or the other. they really needed Garrard. 

 

Take the Jets Punter and backup Punter in your fantasy league.  Take Tanner Purdum in a league where long snapper counts.

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Take the Jets Punter and backup Punter in your fantasy league.  Take Tanner Purdum in a league where long snapper counts.

 

Speaking of punters, today I was watching the Jets vs Packers game from Halloween a few years ago. The one where Steve Weatherford decided to run a fake punt on 4 and like 20. good times. 

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I know I will take a ton of crap for saying this, but the Jets aren't going to be bad this season.  I really believe that this will be a bounce back season that ends with the Jets in the playoffs.

 

There are a ton of issues no doubt but the Jets couldn't do anything on offense last year and they won 6 games.  If the Jets had punted on 1st down every time the had the ball they would won 7 games.  That is how bad the offense was.

 

Any improvement on offense brings in a few more wins.  It isn't that far fetched to picture the Jets at 9 or 10 wins this season.

 

Yes they lost Revis, but they played without him last year anyhow.

 

The Jets aren't going to be that bad this year people, deal with it.  The QB situation will improve, it has to improve a ton to win the Super Bowl, but marginal improvements whether it be Sanchez or Smith, will get the Jets in the playoffs.

 

Go ahead.  Sound off and tell me why I am so wrong now.  :)

 

The NYJ will win a SB with HE as HC

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I agree in that in completions are better than turnovers. a 30% completion rate and 1 INt is better than 60% and 3 ints.  im more concerned that Geno isn't ready. We are gonna see Mark one way or the other. they really needed Garrard. 

 

If Geno doesn't start at some point Jets will be justifiably criticized for not bringing in: Matt Moore, Carson Palmer, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Flynn, Kevin Kolb, etc. Not saying any of these guys lit it up over the past 2 seasons but all could've challenged Sanchez in camp.

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We differ on other issues but the Jets in 2013? what say ye, SD? 

 

We are both in agreement the Jets are gonna be awful this year. And depending on how bad, that might indeed lead to the firing of Rex Ryan.  You are taking the under on vegas 7 wins? Make a call buddy.

 

I'm going under. they are gonna be bad. Maybe they sneak to 7 with some sort of late run after the bye. But even that seems hopeful.  

 

as for the GM and the HC, exhibit A... both Rex and Idzik were NY Jets Ball boys in the 70's (albeit, not at the same time). They were both sons of Jets coaches and they are both Jets employees right now. It's a very specific shared history.

 

The NFL is rife with nepotism and It's coincidental to be sure, but it's undeniably a common experience that these two men have. 

 

exhibit B is the draft.

 

some history John Idzik picked Richard Sherman in rd 5 and found Brandon Browner on the street. He traded Aqib Talib when he was with the Bucs. Historically, CB is not a position he has valued with a first round pick.  If you guys want to find embarassing threads, find the threads where I tell people this story before the draft. Believing it to be an accurate assessment of what this man might do on draft day.

 

with the benefit of hindsight, Idzik was probably targeting Mingo as a Bruce Irvin type of pick. every mock had Mingo

 

but man, gotta kick myself for not predicting CB in the mock draft. Milliner was falling and it's the one position Rex always bangs the table.  

 

Say what you will about best available whatever, a man to man CB at 9 is what Ozzie Newsome predicted 10 years ago. Rex Ryan wants CB's every year. 

 
They drafted a CB first and then a pass rushing DT, that's a Rex Ryan situation.  Yes it's possible Rex sat quietly, said nothing (ha) and Idzik drafted 2 defenders on his own.  Not considering his current defensive system or current head coach. 
 
But think about how unlikely that sounds.

Jets are definitely under 7 wins.

 

Imagine the coincidence of the Jets trading their top defensive player, a cornerback, then selecting a cornerback in the following draft. What a magical coincidence. 

 

For many, that would seem like a logical football move-drafting for an area of need, where you just depleted. For you, a soothsayer of Jet personnel moves, it is a harbinger of Rex's overt influence. Go figure.

 

Oh, and you also want to point out former players that Idzik took in previous drafts. Idzik didn't oversee those drafts. You are again reaching (the same as you did in the Revis situation) for any glimmer of evidence that points to your hoped outcome. Even if it flies in the face of what is actually happening.

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Jets are definitely under 7 wins.

 

Imagine the coincidence of the Jets trading their top defensive player, a cornerback, then selecting a cornerback in the following draft. What a magical coincidence. 

 

For many, that would seem like a logical football move-drafting for an area of need, where you just depleted. For you, a soothsayer of Jet personnel moves, it is a harbinger of Rex's overt influence. Go figure.

 

Oh, and you also want to point out former players that Idzik took in previous drafts. Idzik didn't oversee those drafts. You are again reaching (the same as you did in the Revis situation) for any glimmer of evidence that points to your hoped outcome. Even if it flies in the face of what is actually happening.

 

 

Rex has had too much influence, I think Tanny was put in place for Mangenius and didn't know dick about personnel thus giving control to the coaches.I was ready to jump out a window after the first day of the draft thinking here it ******* goes again, Rex is in charge but if Idzik was honestly just picking BPA you can't get mad at that. Only time will tell tell but I'm going to try and see what optimism feels like.

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Jets are definitely under 7 wins.

 

Imagine the coincidence of the Jets trading their top defensive player, a cornerback, then selecting a cornerback in the following draft. What a magical coincidence. 

 

For many, that would seem like a logical football move-drafting for an area of need, where you just depleted. For you, a soothsayer of Jet personnel moves, it is a harbinger of Rex's overt influence. Go figure.

 

Oh, and you also want to point out former players that Idzik took in previous drafts. Idzik didn't oversee those drafts. You are again reaching (the same as you did in the Revis situation) for any glimmer of evidence that points to your hoped outcome. Even if it flies in the face of what is actually happening.

 

I'd say both sides are doing that, Scott (such as T0mShane).  I don't think there's enough evidence either way to suggest whether Rex will be here or not.  I think the likeliest situation is Idzik is making his decisions independent of who the HC will be in 2014.  Which is the probably the best thing he can do.  You don't acquire talent based on what kind of HC you want.  You just try to bring in as much talent as you can and tell whoever the HC is, "make it work".

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I'd say both sides are doing that, Scott (such as T0mShane).  I don't think there's enough evidence either way to suggest whether Rex will be here or not.  I think the likeliest situation is Idzik is making his decisions independent of who the HC will be in 2014.  Which is the probably the best thing he can do.  You don't acquire talent based on what kind of HC you want.  You just try to bring in as much talent as you can and tell whoever the HC is, "make it work".

Agree. 

 

To suggest that Rex has greater influence and his job is MORE secure based upon 2 draft picks (one that filled a need) is ludicrous.

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I'd say both sides are doing that, Scott (such as T0mShane).  I don't think there's enough evidence either way to suggest whether Rex will be here or not.  I think the likeliest situation is Idzik is making his decisions independent of who the HC will be in 2014.  Which is the probably the best thing he can do.  You don't acquire talent based on what kind of HC you want.  You just try to bring in as much talent as you can and tell whoever the HC is, "make it work".

 

Here is the evidence that Rex will be here....coaches usually don't get fired after their team makes the playoffs.  End of story.

Read the first post in this thread.  The Jets are going to be good.

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Here is the evidence that Rex will be here....coaches usually don't get fired after their team makes the playoffs.  End of story.

Read the first post in this thread.  The Jets are going to be good.

 

If I had a beer in my hand I'd toast to that.  All I'm waiting on is the announcement that Geno will start Week 1, and it'll feel like 2009 all over again.

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I'd say both sides are doing that, Scott (such as T0mShane).  I don't think there's enough evidence either way to suggest whether Rex will be here or not.  I think the likeliest situation is Idzik is making his decisions independent of who the HC will be in 2014.  Which is the probably the best thing he can do.  You don't acquire talent based on what kind of HC you want.  You just try to bring in as much talent as you can and tell whoever the HC is, "make it work".

 

Not to make a definitive answers, no. 

 

But I think there is certainly more pointing to him staying then leaving. 

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Not to make a definitive answers, no. 

 

But I think there is certainly more pointing to him staying then leaving. 

 

Hard to tell.  You could spin that Idzik drafted defense because he wants to give Rex more talent there, or he drafted more defense because he knows Rex, a defense guru, will be gone and the next HC will need more talent to make up for that.  I don't think you can read into it either way.  I'd prefer to think he really did just go with BPA and those just happened to be defensive players.  He probably didn't have the Guards or Eifert as high up on his board as many here did.

 

As for the Geno pick, also hard to tell there.  You could say that he's finally trying to hand Rex a good QB and you don't change coaches when you bring in a new QB (new regimes = new QB's generaly).  OR you could say he's trying to make the Jets a more attractive destination for potential HC's by bringing in a potential franchise QB.  Or, like I think, he again had Geno as the top guy on his board and knew this was a great time to try to address our need there as well. 

 

Idzik has a helluva good poker face from early impressions.

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Jets are definitely under 7 wins.

 

Imagine the coincidence of the Jets trading their top defensive player, a cornerback, then selecting a cornerback in the following draft. What a magical coincidence

 

For many, that would seem like a logical football move-drafting for an area of need, where you just depleted. For you, a soothsayer of Jet personnel moves, it is a harbinger of Rex's overt influence. Go figure.

 

Oh, and you also want to point out former players that Idzik took in previous drafts. Idzik didn't oversee those drafts. You are again reaching (the same as you did in the Revis situation) for any glimmer of evidence that points to your hoped outcome. Even if it flies in the face of what is actually happening.

I would normally agree with this statement but we played last year without revis and our pass D held up absolutely fine.  Now if we drafted a S I could see your point but that didn't happen even though we lost both safeties that started every game last year.

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Hard to tell.  You could spin that Idzik drafted defense because he wants to give Rex more talent there, or he drafted more defense because he knows Rex, a defense guru, will be gone and the next HC will need more talent to make up for that.  I don't think you can read into it either way.  I'd prefer to think he really did just go with BPA and those just happened to be defensive players.  He probably didn't have the Guards or Eifert as high up on his board as many here did.

 

As for the Geno pick, also hard to tell there.  You could say that he's finally trying to hand Rex a good QB and you don't change coaches when you bring in a new QB (new regimes = new QB's generaly).  OR you could say he's trying to make the Jets a more attractive destination for potential HC's by bringing in a potential franchise QB.  Or, like I think, he again had Geno as the top guy on his board and knew this was a great time to try to address our need there as well. 

 

Idzik has a helluva good poker face from early impressions.

 

Even removing the draft as speculation either way, the FA signings certainly have been in the mold of Rex Ryan.  It makes me think they have similar philosophies.  He's endorsed him as the strength of the team.  Time will tell but early signs point to him liking Rex, and thats a good thing for Jets fans. 

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I would normally agree with this statement but we played last year without revis and our pass D held up absolutely fine.  Now if we drafted a S I could see your point but that didn't happen even though we lost both safeties that started every game last year.

The pass defense held up fine, because teams could run the ball on the Jets.

 

The Jets drafted Milliner because Revis is gone, Cromartie may not be long for the team, Wilson has been a bust, it fits a team need and because I imagine he was high on their board when it came time to pick.

 

Not because Rex Ryan is coach.

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