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Knicks/Nets offseason scuttlebutt


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180 replies to this topic

#1 T0mShane

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:51 PM

Sooooooo, the Nets are trading Hump, Wallace, Reggie Evans, Bogans, and three firsts for Garnett, Pierce, and Jason Terry, with the major caveat being that it'll cost Prokhorov $80 mil in luxury tax. It's a no-lose trade, IMO. You dump Hump's and Wallace's contracts, and you import Garnett's leadership and Pierce's wing scoring. If Garnett breaks down, he retires and opens up cap space immediately. The Nets weren't getting anything from Hump, and Wallace has to come off the bench wherever he goes. $80 mil, though. Christ.


~The Nets draft Mason Plumleezzzzzzzzzzz. Will carry Garnett's bags, and won't get humiliated by a Kardashian.

~The Knicks draft Tim Hardaway Jr. Will he play the point here?

Edited by T0mShane, 27 June 2013 - 10:15 PM.

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#2 #27TheDominator

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:35 PM

I think Hardaway would be worse at the point than Shumpert and Shumpert is no point.


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#3 gqxluvx

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:44 AM

Tough to argue with what the Nets did, they were going to be stuck for at least 3 years with the Johnson and Wallace contracts and they improved the team within that 2-3 year window. I am no fan of Billy King, but dude should get a statue for getting rid of Wallace's contract. Also, this sets them up to make a run at Durant in 2016.
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#4 Matt39

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 10:10 AM

Boston shopping Rondo too?


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#5 SenorGato

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:04 AM

Even at this stage in his career it's an honor to have someone like Garnett on a team I like. That said, given that I like the team it fits they get him at the tail end. 


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#6 Damaged89

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:54 PM

This is kind of like the 2012 Lakers.  I think they'll be better than that but that is a lot of creaky players and no bench.


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#7 Damaged89

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:55 PM

Hardaway is meh.  He's supposed to be a wing that can shoot so I guess that fits with what the Knicks are trying to do.


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#8 Larz

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:04 PM

hardaway replaces jr smith

 

the nets made a 1 year effort to go for it with a head coach who has never coached on any level.  won't take long for them to realize you can tell Williams to get pirece the ball were he likes it all you want, but is different than going out there and giving him the ball yourself

 

will 2 old Celtics give deron and johnson heart ?

 

maybe.  but then they retire and you have no draft picks


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#9 T0mShane

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:35 PM

The Boston fan crying about this is legendary. What a spoiled bunch of moron-infants. The second they have to transition from chest-thumping sh*tbird to my-team-isn't-going-to-win, they turn into emo crybabies.
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#10 T0mShane

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:42 PM

Joe Johnson's deal expires the 2015 season, and between him, Deron, and Brook, they're eating all the cap room anyway. As we saw repeatedly in these playoffs, the cap needs to be raised because even the best teams are fielding D-league, non-NBA talent after the first five guys (if that) on a roster.

If KG's guidance helps Brook Lopez sprout a few chest hairs, then it'll be be worth it. This idea that the Nets lost three draft picks and will suffer for it is a joke. Unless you have a lottery pick, you're drafting the 10th guy on your bench anyway. And the Nets 2014 and 2016 picks won't be lottery, unless they go on an injury spiral. The 2018 pick comes way after the Nets clear this group of salaries, and they'll have re-stocked with FAs.

Edited by T0mShane, 28 June 2013 - 02:42 PM.

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#11 faba

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:00 PM

The Nets did good- they have to go for it now anyway with their roster and all the picks they gave up will not be high draft picks most likely. Get two all stars that know how to win- maybe it will rub off on Lopez and Williams


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#12 SMC

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:18 AM

Hardaway is a SG and a good pic. Nets picked well as well

Garnett is 37 and will be 38 by playoff time. Pierce and Terry will be 36 before season starts. Nets have oldest starting 5 in NBA.

Its a hilarious double standard that the Knicks sign up ancient backups but the media screams that theyre old. Nets trade for ancient starters and media screams theyre contenders.

I understand Nets thinking and they did it to go all in on 2013-14.

As for the picks, its hard to fathom them being lottery picks the way the east is. Would have to be a Lakers level disaster but even they made playoffs.
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#13 SMC

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 08:20 AM

I think Hardaway would be worse at the point than Shumpert and Shumpert is no point.

Shump actually played point. Hardaway is not a PG, doesnt play point and wont play point in NBA. Hes a classic SG.
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#14 #27TheDominator

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 09:01 AM

Shump actually played point. Hardaway is not a PG, doesnt play point and wont play point in NBA. Hes a classic SG.

 

 

He played point.  He did it plenty as a rook, but he's no point.  He has a handle and can bring the ball up and down the court. He is not who you want to distribute.


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#15 Matt39

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 11:08 AM

Hardaway is a SG and a good pic. Nets picked well as well
Garnett is 37 and will be 38 by playoff time. Pierce and Terry will be 36 before season starts. Nets have oldest starting 5 in NBA.
Its a hilarious double standard that the Knicks sign up ancient backups but the media screams that theyre old. Nets trade for ancient starters and media screams theyre contenders.
I understand Nets thinking and they did it to go all in on 2013-14.
As for the picks, its hard to fathom them being lottery picks the way the east is. Would have to be a Lakers level disaster but even they made playoffs.


Everyone essentially praised the Kidd signing. Are we really going to compare Pierce and KG to Camby and Sheed?
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#16 Damaged89

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 11:36 AM

Everyone essentially praised the Kidd signing. Are we really going to compare Pierce and KG to Camby and Sheed?

 

Kidd is a complete unknown.  He's a basketball genius for sure, but no one has any idea how he's going to handle personalities; an aspect that is going to be pretty important given that he has a manbaby point guard.

 

Camby and Wallace were backups.  When they were hurt/useless it robbed the Knicks of any bench bigs.  Pierce and Garnett are going to be starting.  Pierce looked like had nothing left in the tank in the playoffs.

 

I think that it was a good move for both sides, but certainly not one that guarantees a top 2 seed or anything.  


Edited by Damaged89, 29 June 2013 - 11:36 AM.

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#17 T0mShane

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:03 PM

Any of Kidd's issues will come from dealing with the media, dealing with Billy King/Prokhorov, and handling the chores of a head coach. Is he going to want to sit in his office until 2 a.m. watching tape of the Sixers? How is he going to handle having Fred Kerber and Stefan Bondy and assorted beat guys asking him about his rotation every night?

I'm not sure how I feel about this trade yet. Yes, they got better, and all they gave up was cash, but if KG and Pierce implode this year, the Nets have no route to recovery. They're already capped out through 2016 with just Joe Johnson's, Brook's, and Deron's salaries alone. Vegas installed them at 10-1, behind only Miami and Chicago, to win the title next year. Nine million if's to get to that point, though.
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#18 jason423

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 07:59 PM

Any of Kidd's issues will come from dealing with the media, dealing with Billy King/Prokhorov, and handling the chores of a head coach. Is he going to want to sit in his office until 2 a.m. watching tape of the Sixers? How is he going to handle having Fred Kerber and Stefan Bondy and assorted beat guys asking him about his rotation every night?

I'm not sure how I feel about this trade yet. Yes, they got better, and all they gave up was cash, but if KG and Pierce implode this year, the Nets have no route to recovery. They're already capped out through 2016 with just Joe Johnson's, Brook's, and Deron's salaries alone. Vegas installed them at 10-1, behind only Miami and Chicago, to win the title next year. Nine million if's to get to that point, though.

 

Im fine with the trade. I mean we pretty much saw what the Nets ceiling was last season. 50 win team lacking the toughness to go deep in the playoffs. They also get no production from the 3 and 4 to the point where the Bulls werent even guarding those guys at times in the series. So to me the options for the Nets were to just be frustrating for the next 3 or 4 years and then go an rebuild a team in free agency with the outside chance that they happen to have a really bad season that coincides with a really top heavy draft. 

 

The only downside here is now if they have that really bad season and it coincides with a top heavy draft it hurts the team. But otherwise the situation is still with rebuild is still the same. They dumped Wallace contract. If the team implodes by 2016 they will have the juice to go into free agency and rebuild the same way they did last season. So nothing changes in that part of the equation, No matter how old and how bad those two may play it cant be any worse than the way the guys they are replacing played. 

 

Im not a big Pierce fan but I do like what Garnett can bring to the team. He can be a big asset to Lopez and this now becomes the top 4 and 5 playoff combo in the east if Garnett is healthy in the playoffs. Garnett also bring the toughness they lack. To me thats a no brainer and I can at least now say that maybe the Nets have a higher ceiling than last season. So Im cool with the trade. It avoids the team from the same situation that plagued the Kidd era Nets of Rodney Rogers, Zoran Planinic, Mikki Moore, Alonzo Morning, Dikembe Mutombo, etc...where they could never bring in that one extra piece because of the cap. 

 

I actually like the way the Nets would match up with a number of teams with this lineup, though Id imagine the Heat will trade Bosh this year to actually get a guy who can play down low. the one thing that the Nets are missing is that guy that can take a game over. Deron isnt that guy anymore despite what people say. I think in a normal 7 game series that they would be better than a team like the Knicks but if Melo has a hot 4 games the Nets will have a hard time matching that. Its the one disadvantage they will have matching against the Knicks and Bulls.


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#19 SMC

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 09:34 PM

He played point.  He did it plenty as a rook, but he's no point.  He has a handle and can bring the ball up and down the court. He is not who you want to distribute.

Are you arguing for the sake of arguing again, Dom?

T0m said something stupid about Hardaway playing the point, although everyone knows Hardaway is a SG. Then, surprisingly, you respond to T0m as if he had asked a legitimate question when it was clearly nonsense since again, Hardaway is as much a PG as Melo.

I never said I wanted Shump distributing. Hes not an NBA PG either, but he has played the position, which was something Hardaway never did.
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#20 SMC

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 09:36 PM

Everyone essentially praised the Kidd signing. Are we really going to compare Pierce and KG to Camby and Sheed?

No, everyone didnt praise the Kidd signing. They called the Knicks old in part because of it. As for Camby and Sheed, they were signed to play 10 minutes a game.

Pierce and KG are expected to play 30+. Big difference.
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#21 SMC

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 09:40 PM

Heat do a sign and trade for Howard using Bosh.
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#22 Matt39

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 05:58 PM

This bargnani move is awful


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#23 T0mShane

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 06:01 PM

This bargnani move is awful


Why? Because having another ridiculously soft three-point shooter who plays no defense is bad?
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#24 Matt39

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 06:04 PM

Why? Because having another ridiculously soft three-point shooter who plays no defense is bad?

 

and gave up a first round pick....friggin Isiah unbelievable. 


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#25 T0mShane

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 06:06 PM

Im fine with the trade. I mean we pretty much saw what the Nets ceiling was last season. 50 win team lacking the toughness to go deep in the playoffs. They also get no production from the 3 and 4 to the point where the Bulls werent even guarding those guys at times in the series. So to me the options for the Nets were to just be frustrating for the next 3 or 4 years and then go an rebuild a team in free agency with the outside chance that they happen to have a really bad season that coincides with a really top heavy draft.

The only downside here is now if they have that really bad season and it coincides with a top heavy draft it hurts the team. But otherwise the situation is still with rebuild is still the same. They dumped Wallace contract. If the team implodes by 2016 they will have the juice to go into free agency and rebuild the same way they did last season. So nothing changes in that part of the equation, No matter how old and how bad those two may play it cant be any worse than the way the guys they are replacing played.

Im not a big Pierce fan but I do like what Garnett can bring to the team. He can be a big asset to Lopez and this now becomes the top 4 and 5 playoff combo in the east if Garnett is healthy in the playoffs. Garnett also bring the toughness they lack. To me thats a no brainer and I can at least now say that maybe the Nets have a higher ceiling than last season. So Im cool with the trade. It avoids the team from the same situation that plagued the Kidd era Nets of Rodney Rogers, Zoran Planinic, Mikki Moore, Alonzo Morning, Dikembe Mutombo, etc...where they could never bring in that one extra piece because of the cap.

I actually like the way the Nets would match up with a number of teams with this lineup, though Id imagine the Heat will trade Bosh this year to actually get a guy who can play down low. the one thing that the Nets are missing is that guy that can take a game over. Deron isnt that guy anymore despite what people say. I think in a normal 7 game series that they would be better than a team like the Knicks but if Melo has a hot 4 games the Nets will have a hard time matching that. Its the one disadvantage they will have matching against the Knicks and Bulls.



My concern with the deal is that they're almost guaranteeing themselves that really bad season when KG and Pierce hang it up, likely in the next two years. Unless Joe Johnson turns it allllll the way around, that's going to be a pretty depleted team in 2015-2016. I agree with you about the short-term benefits, but if things go south as soon as this year, they're going to have to trade Brook or Deron right away in hopes of staving off the apocalypse.

I see they're also considering reaching out for Kyle Korver and bringing in Bogdanovic. They're going to be paying 3-for-1 on their deals in luxury taxes. You gotta wonder if Prokhorov will show any restraint if they don't get to the ECF this year.
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