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NY Jets Week One Starting Quarterback: Geno Smith


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#126 JoeKlecko

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:42 PM

Because Rex made a very strong start his first two years.  The team lost focus the last two.  After reviewing the situation, Woody decided that Rex deserved another chance with a different GM, then set about to find another GM to work with Rex.

 

Besides, Tanny had already worked with Mangini and survived Mangini's firing.  Now Tanny works with Rex and after a good start things go south again.  This time it was Tannenbaum's turn to go.

 

Woody's decision to keep Rex for now may well have prevented some prime GM candidates from taking the job, since GM's like to select their own coach.  This is balanced, in Woody's mind, by the fact that Rex can be an outstanding coach and he did not want to let him go only to see him blossom with another team.  When push comes to shove, great coaches are harder to find than good general managers.

 

That doesn't mean that Woody is keeping Rex forever, it only means that Woody has decided to give him another chance, based on his strong first two years.

 

 

 

Woody pays the bills, and decided he was going to do it.  Besides, in any organization major changes should be swift and decisive.  If you're going to replace Tanny, the new man will likely want his own coach, and the chances that the coach he would choose is Rex is small.  So if you are going to bring in a new GM and give him that choice, Woody might as well send Rex packing along with Tanny.  To fire one of the two major factors, then keep the other dangling for several weeks and then let him go then, (which would prevent Rex from lining up another job in the peak hiring season right after the season ends), would be weak, vacillating, and totally wussburger decision making.

 

Woody decided to give Rex another chance, and set about to find a qualified GM to work with him.  Simple as that.

 

I guess we just see this totally differently all the way around.  Yes, Rex started strong, but the team going south is as much on Rex as it is Tanny.  Tanny didn't turn the team into a circus, make all the stupid predictions and comments in press conferences, didn't lose the locker room, didn't wuss out in games settling for FGs instead of going for TDs, and all the other crap that Rex has done.  Woody isn't qualified to make any football-related decisions, especially regarding the capabilites of a HC and CS.  His ego is in the way.  Yes, he pays the bills and has the right to do whatever he wants, but unless he wants to look like a dumb jackass, alienate his fanbase, and waste a lot of money, he needs to realize that he doesn't know what the heck he's doing and look for the best GM he can find, then step back and let that GM do the job as he sees fit.

 

Making a decision to keep Rex, and thus knocking out perhaps the best, most qualified GM candidates is short sighted at the very least, and moronic at worst imo.

 

Unless the first thing the prospective GM candidates asked Woody was whether they could fire Rex, or Woody asked them (or had the executive search firm ask), then he might not have known what they would have done since they declined to even interview.  The new man could have decided to keep or fire Rex.  That was part of the reason for hiring a new GM who was actually qualified and knew what the heck he was doing.  Hiring the best candidate and then letting him decide is not being a wussy.  When the owner of a business hires a new manager or President, the owner doesn't automatically fire his whole staff thinking the new manager will want to bring in his own staff.  He lets that manager make the decisions on who goes and who stays.  The same thing happens in sports.  It is rare that both the GM and HC are fired.  To say that he might as well have gone ahead and fired Rex too is ridiculous and has nothing to do with reality imo.  There might have been candidates who wanted to keep Rex, and then that would knock them out.  The bottom line is that the HC and CS should be the GM's decision, not the owner's.

 

I'm also not sure that I would agree that it's harder to find great coaches than great GMs.  I know that you said "good" GMs, but one ought to be looking for the best leader of the franchise one can get (GM) and not just someone who is good.  Coaches come and go, but if you have a great GM who builds a strong foundation and organization, and keeps the team stocked with great talent, finding a good coach who is good enough to win with that talent shouldn't be that difficult.  Being in the major media market in the country, with an owner who has deep pockets and is willing to spend, and having a great, respected organization that will keep the team well stocked with talent would have HC candidates salivating at the prospect of coming to the Jets.  They would be seen as saviors and it wouldn't take much at all to become the greatest coach in franchise history.

 

It may be as simple as you say, and it certainly appears to be, but that is why I despise Woody and don't really trust that this team will ever get it right as long as he is the owner.  You spend the money to hire an executive search firm to find the best candidate they can, and then hinder them in their search by telling them they have to find someone who agrees with you and will be your puppet.  Absolutely egomaniacal and moronic.  If he doesn't wake up and soon, I hope the bastid goes bankrupt and is forced to sell the franchise.


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#127 slats

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:25 PM

I sure hope that you're right regarding the first bolded portion.  While he is experienced and certainly knows more about personnel evaluation than Rex, Woody or Tanny combined.  I'm not sure his eye for talent is so good, but then, we don't know how much influence Whisenhunt and/or the Phoenix owner had with regard to personnel.
 
I totally agree with the last bolded sentence.  If there's any real hope for this franchise, someone has to convince Woody to stay out of decision making.  He has to hire someone he can trust or learn to trust to run the football operation TOTALLY, and not interfere at all.


My neg rep here was an accident - surfing on an ipad. I generally agree with this post. Although I'm really not sure how much Woody has been involved with the decision making, I do agree he needs to stay out.

I'm hoping Tannenbaum was the problem, and that the problem has been removed.
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#128 kelticwizard

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:17 AM

.... When the owner of a business hires a new manager or President, the owner doesn't automatically fire his whole staff thinking the new manager will want to bring in his own staff.  He lets that manager make the decisions on who goes and who stays.  The same thing happens in sports.

 

No, it does not.  The NFL is not like an auto dealership or a plumbing supply business where the new owner reviews everyone and makes changes on a case by case basis. They might keep some people lower on the totem pole, but that's it.

 

If ever you want to see an industry where networking counts, it's the NFL.  Of the players who started on one team and are presently playing with another,  the vast majority came over because when the old team cut them one of the old team's coaches had moved over to the new team and brought them over.

 

Same thing goes with coaching.  Linebacker coaches work under defensive coordinators, and if the DC moves over to another team, unless the linebacker coach gets promoted he usually follows him.  The NFL is a small  world, the coaching fraternity is an even smaller world and when people move they bring people with them.  Take a look at all the discussion about Mornhinweg-when Reid moved he didn't bring him and that has caused much attention on this board because it's so unexpected.

 

Any general manager has his own list of coaches he would like as his head coach, and they are all people he has worked with.  That's just the way it goes.  If Woody was going to let the new man pick the coach, by all rights he should have fired Rex right after the season along with Tannenbaum and given Rex the chance to get rehired, either as a head coach or DC, instead of waiting for the new GM to fire him.  Because I guarantee you, unless Woody hires someone who is Rex's buddy from the past as GM, there is no chance the new man hires Rex.  None.


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#129 slats

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:42 AM

I think that's a plausible assessment of the situation, particularly the team that Idzik has started assembling. It does frighten me more than a little bit, however. If true, then it means that Woody is perhaps committed to Rex regardless of how this season plays out.


It's been my position all along that Rex's future does not hinge on the the team's record this year. The owner and GM both clearly understand that the roster is in the middle of a rebuild, with the demolition well underway, and the rebuilding part well behind. But that doesn't mean that Rex is safe regardless, either. He'll be judged on how well Idzik believes he's coaching the team, and if Idzik does decide to fire Rex, I think he'll need to have clear reasons to present to Woody before he goes ahead with that.

Rex might do much better with a boss, but he'll have to prove it to me before I can believe it. I'm still in the camp wanting Rex fired. In addition, I think Idzik ought to put together the best team he can and not just one tailored to Rex's tastes. I do not believe that a team can any longer win a Lombardi Trophy with a great defense and mediocre offense that mostly runs the ball. If this is indeed what is happening, then we may be stuck with Rex and Idzik for a good while and have no real shot at winning a Lombardi Trophy. I truly hope you are wrong about this.


I don't think anyone is looking to build a QB-free team. The first draft pick with Rex at the helm was Mark Sanchez. It hasn't worked out to date, but not for lack of trying. Now Idzik comes aboard, and takes a high profile QB in the second round after Rex fires his second OC in two years and brings in a veteran at the position for the first time. They're doing what they can for the offense under their current cap restraints and, frankly, a pretty weak offensive draft.

While it may be the uphill road to Lombardiville, a strong defense and running game can win games in the short term, and even get a team into the playoffs. We've seen that under Rex already. While I'm sure they'll continue to tinker on defense in the future, I'm also sure that they're hoping they're done building the offensive running game now and can focus on the passing game next year. Whether that means building around one of the QBs currently on the roster or not being the biggest question mark.
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#130 T0mShane

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:15 AM

...and if Idzik does decide to fire Rex, I think he'll need to have clear reasons to present to Woody before he goes ahead with that.


Woody: "How much will it cost me?"

Idzik: "Four million."

Woody: "Make it so."
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#131 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:36 AM

No, it does not.  The NFL is not like an auto dealership or a plumbing supply business where the new owner reviews everyone and makes changes on a case by case basis. They might keep some people lower on the totem pole, but that's it.

 

If ever you want to see an industry where networking counts, it's the NFL.  Of the players who started on one team and are presently playing with another,  the vast majority came over because when the old team cut them one of the old team's coaches had moved over to the new team and brought them over.

 

Same thing goes with coaching.  Linebacker coaches work under defensive coordinators, and if the DC moves over to another team, unless the linebacker coach gets promoted he usually follows him.  The NFL is a small  world, the coaching fraternity is an even smaller world and when people move they bring people with them.  Take a look at all the discussion about Mornhinweg-when Reid moved he didn't bring him and that has caused much attention on this board because it's so unexpected.

 

Any general manager has his own list of coaches he would like as his head coach, and they are all people he has worked with.  That's just the way it goes.  If Woody was going to let the new man pick the coach, by all rights he should have fired Rex right after the season along with Tannenbaum and given Rex the chance to get rehired, either as a head coach or DC, instead of waiting for the new GM to fire him.  Because I guarantee you, unless Woody hires someone who is Rex's buddy from the past as GM, there is no chance the new man hires Rex.  None.

 

I actually kind of agree with him in this regard.  You don't say, as the owner, that the new GM has to fire everyone and start over.  That even the pieces the GM wants to keep (or wants to assess for himself) are off-limits and he has to find someone new just for the sake of finding someone new.  I'm sure Idzik is fully aware of the clownish things that have transpired under Rex's watch, since Rex does nothing in low-profile mode.  What he wants to assess for himself - through training camp and more closely watching games - is how much of recent failures is Rex and how much is due to the personnel circumstances he's faced with (that Idzik will be handling now).  Easy - and understandable - for fans to have already made up their minds, but Idzik's job is to take emotion out of it and make a rational decision.  

 

The thing that's funny is that some of the criticisms of Rex (the "gutless" FG or punt decisions, for example) could certainly be rationalized by the personnel on offense, namely Sanchez.  The defense was hardly elite of late, but I can see why Rex - who clearly spends/spent more time with his defense than with his offense - had more faith in that side of the ball on his team.  Punting only seems gutless when you ignore 2 turnovers/game from the QB (not even counting when his fumbles are recovered but still led to punting the ball away).  

 

Truth is I disagree with a lot of things Rex has done.  But I do wonder what would have happened if he had a real QB.  It is quite a handicap.


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#132 kelticwizard

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:08 AM

I actually kind of agree with him in this regard.  You don't say, as the owner, that the new GM has to fire everyone and start over.  That even the pieces the GM wants to keep (or wants to assess for himself) are off-limits and he has to find someone new just for the sake of finding someone new.  I'm sure Idzik is fully aware of the clownish things that have transpired under Rex's watch, since Rex does nothing in low-profile mode.  What he wants to assess for himself - through training camp and more closely watching games - is how much of recent failures is Rex and how much is due to the personnel circumstances he's faced with (that Idzik will be handling now).  Easy - and understandable - for fans to have already made up their minds, but Idzik's job is to take emotion out of it and make a rational decision.  

 

Okay, but if Idzik's job is to asses all aspects of the Jets, including Rex, through training camp and games, then you are basically saying that Woody gave Rex the job for at least this year.  Because I don't think Woody has in mind Idzik saying after preseason game #2, "We need a new head coach now, let's start looking".

 

If Woody gave Idzik the right to fire Rex this year, Idzik or any other general manager would do so and move his own choice in, guaranteed.  That's why, if Woody was willing to let the new GM get rid of Rex, he should have cleared Rex out with Tannenbaum and let the man hook up with another team while the positions are available.  To do anything else would show lack of character.


Edited by kelticwizard, 08 July 2013 - 10:13 AM.

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#133 JoeKlecko

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:07 PM

No, it does not.  The NFL is not like an auto dealership or a plumbing supply business where the new owner reviews everyone and makes changes on a case by case basis. They might keep some people lower on the totem pole, but that's it.

 

If ever you want to see an industry where networking counts, it's the NFL.  Of the players who started on one team and are presently playing with another,  the vast majority came over because when the old team cut them one of the old team's coaches had moved over to the new team and brought them over.

 

Same thing goes with coaching.  Linebacker coaches work under defensive coordinators, and if the DC moves over to another team, unless the linebacker coach gets promoted he usually follows him.  The NFL is a small  world, the coaching fraternity is an even smaller world and when people move they bring people with them.  Take a look at all the discussion about Mornhinweg-when Reid moved he didn't bring him and that has caused much attention on this board because it's so unexpected.

 

Any general manager has his own list of coaches he would like as his head coach, and they are all people he has worked with.  That's just the way it goes.  If Woody was going to let the new man pick the coach, by all rights he should have fired Rex right after the season along with Tannenbaum and given Rex the chance to get rehired, either as a head coach or DC, instead of waiting for the new GM to fire him.  Because I guarantee you, unless Woody hires someone who is Rex's buddy from the past as GM, there is no chance the new man hires Rex.  None.

 

With the exception of the last sentence, absolute BS imo.  Your first three paragraphs while true, have absolutely nothing to do with the bottom line.  The bottom line is that the owner should not be picking and choosing the CS.  That's the GM's job. Period.  The only person Woody should have fired was Tanny.  He should have then hired a new GM and let that man do his job as he sees fit and keep his own stupid, ignorant ass out of it.


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#134 JoeKlecko

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:15 PM

It's been my position all along that Rex's future does not hinge on the the team's record this year. The owner and GM both clearly understand that the roster is in the middle of a rebuild, with the demolition well underway, and the rebuilding part well behind. But that doesn't mean that Rex is safe regardless, either. He'll be judged on how well Idzik believes he's coaching the team, and if Idzik does decide to fire Rex, I think he'll need to have clear reasons to present to Woody before he goes ahead with that.


I don't think anyone is looking to build a QB-free team. The first draft pick with Rex at the helm was Mark Sanchez. It hasn't worked out to date, but not for lack of trying. Now Idzik comes aboard, and takes a high profile QB in the second round after Rex fires his second OC in two years and brings in a veteran at the position for the first time. They're doing what they can for the offense under their current cap restraints and, frankly, a pretty weak offensive draft.

While it may be the uphill road to Lombardiville, a strong defense and running game can win games in the short term, and even get a team into the playoffs. We've seen that under Rex already. While I'm sure they'll continue to tinker on defense in the future, I'm also sure that they're hoping they're done building the offensive running game now and can focus on the passing game next year. Whether that means building around one of the QBs currently on the roster or not being the biggest question mark.

 

The first pick while Rex was HC being a QB had little or nothing to do with Rex, and more to do with the fact that the Jets did not have a QB.  It was an absolutely horrible choice as well.  Taking an underclassman QB with little starting experience who wasn't a consensus top prospect like Luck or Griffin, throwing him into the fire as the starting QB and not letting him sit behind a quality veteran for a year or two when EVERYONE said that Sanchez needed to sit and when the record for underclassmen QBs in the NFL has been abysmal (not even close to even), was totally stupid and NOT the way to start building a team imo.  We know that Tanny was a totally incompetent, dumbass, but if Rex was part of that decision, then it's the clincher imo that he's not qualified to be a HC.


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#135 JoeKlecko

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:31 PM

Okay, but if Idzik's job is to asses all aspects of the Jets, including Rex, through training camp and games, then you are basically saying that Woody gave Rex the job for at least this year.  Because I don't think Woody has in mind Idzik saying after preseason game #2, "We need a new head coach now, let's start looking".

 

If Woody gave Idzik the right to fire Rex this year, Idzik or any other general manager would do so and move his own choice in, guaranteed.  That's why, if Woody was willing to let the new GM get rid of Rex, he should have cleared Rex out with Tannenbaum and let the man hook up with another team while the positions are available.  To do anything else would show lack of character.

 

You just don't get it, do you?  It's not Woody's place to fire or keep Rex.  That's the GM's decision or at least it should be.    

 

If Woody gave Idzik the option of firing Rex (which I strongly doubt), then I agree that Idzik would most likely have fired Rex, and deservedly so. It is also possible, however, that Idzik may have taken an approach that you suggested in one of your posts in this thread, that being that he didn't want to rush to make a decision.  He surely knew that Rex had said and done some stupid things, but he also knew that Rex is a great DC and was saddled with an incompetent GM, and an incompetent QB coach and OC when he (Rex) was hired, and wanted to give Rex a chance or see if he could develop.  He might not have wanted to make a rushed decision with Rex.  Also, there might not have been any HC candidates available that Idzik wanted, or perhaps he knew that with the team being saddled with Sanchez for another year, tone's contract for another year while he may not even be able to play, cap hell, a lot of dead wood on the roster, few, if any, real offensive playmakers and some other issues that no topflight HC would have even seriously considered taking the Jets' job with a rookie GM.  Conversely, he perhaps also thought that if he cleared out the dead wood this season, drafted some excellent talent this year, reorganized the FO, ushered the circus out of town, and started laying a solid foundation for the future, that heading into next season with a ton of cap space, some topflight young talent on the roster to build around, and having proved himself as a capable GM, that his odds of finding a quality HC during next offseason would be significantly better.  As part of this, he may also have already decided to fire Rex at the end of this season regardless of what happens (barring a miraculous run in the playoffs), and decided to let him take the lumps.  The truth is we just don't know what Idzik was allowed to do by Woody, but the point that remains is that the decision on Rex should have totally been Idzik's and not Woody's.

 

Idzik very well may have said 


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#136 kelticwizard

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:00 AM

With the exception of the last sentence, absolute BS imo.  Your first three paragraphs while true, have absolutely nothing to do with the bottom line.  The bottom line is that the owner should not be picking and choosing the CS.  That's the GM's job. Period. 

You started out arguing in favor of that being the GM's job, and by now have worked yourself over to the position that you have no patience with anyone who does not recognize that idea as a self-evident truth.   You agree that what I posted about the NFL and networking is true, but in the same sentence proclaim it as BS anyway.

 

Come on now.

 

You just don't get it, do you?  It's not Woody's place to fire or keep Rex.  That's the GM's decision or at least it should be.    

Here we go again.

 

If Woody gave Idzik the option of firing Rex (which I strongly doubt), then I agree that Idzik would most likely have fired Rex, and deservedly so. It is also possible, however, that Idzik may have taken an approach that you suggested in one of your posts in this thread, that being that he didn't want to rush to make a decision.

I don't believe I posted that.  I do remember posting that if Idzik was given  the right to fire Rex the first year he would have had to make the decision very shortly after taking office, because I don't think Woody wants to hear after the second preseason game that Idzik wants a new head coach this year.  Basically I meant that if Idzik had the power to fire Rex this year, he would have done so immediately, so we know that Woody didn't give him that power this year.  Next year might be different.


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#137 kelticwizard

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:12 AM

.... He surely knew that Rex had said and done some stupid things, but he also knew that Rex is a great DC and was saddled with an incompetent GM, and an incompetent QB coach and OC when he (Rex) was hired, and wanted to give Rex a chance or see if he could develop.  He might not have wanted to make a rushed decision with Rex.

If Idzik was going to fire Rex this year, he would have had to make the decision within a few days of taking office.  How much time could he possibly have had to see how Rex worked out?

 

 

 

....or perhaps he knew that with the team being saddled with Sanchez for another year, tone's contract for another year while he may not even be able to play, cap hell, a lot of dead wood on the roster, few, if any, real offensive playmakers and some other issues that no topflight HC would have even seriously considered taking the Jets' job with a rookie GM.  Conversely, he perhaps also thought that if he cleared out the dead wood this season, drafted some excellent talent this year, reorganized the FO, ushered the circus out of town, and started laying a solid foundation for the future, that heading into next season with a ton of cap space, some topflight young talent on the roster to build around, and having proved himself as a capable GM, that his odds of finding a quality HC during next offseason would be significantly better.  As part of this, he may also have already decided to fire Rex at the end of this season regardless of what happens (barring a miraculous run in the playoffs)....

I just don't agree with this.  Football people are direct people by nature, they don't go about doing things in such a deceptive, roundabout way.  Being hired as a GM is a big step in anyone's life, and the only thing to do is hit the ground running with as many people you have worked with and know you can get things done with.  This business of maybe I'll wait, this Rex guy might work out or if he doesn't I won't get the blame, etc etc just isn't the way successful sports people operate.

 

I guarantee Idzik had a list of head coach candidates before he took the job.  He's spent his life working in football front offices.  Rex wouldn't be here if Idzik had anything to do with it-not because Idzik doesn't think Rex could be a good head coach, but because he never worked with him before.

 

 

Now one last thing.  The general manager's job is whatever the guy who pays him says it is.  Usually that job includes being able to fire the coach, but not in this case. 

 

By the same token, the head coach usually gets to pick his assistant coaches.  But when Rex came here, even though he was much more highly rated as a head coach candidate than Idzik was rated as a GM candidate, he didn't.  He was stuck with Schottenheimer.  Then when they got rid of Schottenheimer, Rex was given the choice, and he chose Sparano.  When that didn't work out, Rex lost the chance to pick his offensive coordinator again.

 

The job is whatever the man who pays you says it is.


Edited by kelticwizard, 09 July 2013 - 12:21 AM.

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#138 JoeKlecko

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:35 AM

You started out arguing in favor of that being the GM's job, and by now have worked yourself over to the position that you have no patience with anyone who does not recognize that idea as a self-evident truth.   You agree that what I posted about the NFL and networking is true, but in the same sentence proclaim it as BS anyway.

 

Come on now.

 

Here we go again.

 

 

 

I don't believe I posted that.  I do remember posting that if Idzik was given  the right to fire Rex the first year he would have had to make the decision very shortly after taking office, because I don't think Woody wants to hear after the second preseason game that Idzik wants a new head coach this year.  Basically I meant that if Idzik had the power to fire Rex this year, he would have done so immediately, so we know that Woody didn't give him that power this year.  Next year might be different.

 

No, I haven't.  The problem is that you cannot read.  I have consistently said that is the GM's job period.  I said that those things are true in general, but not in the way that you are trying to apply them.  You are trying to use that as some justification that Woody should have fired Rex, or it has something to do with his character.  Aburd.  I'm done.  Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall.


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#139 kelticwizard

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:46 AM

..... The problem is that you cannot read.  I have consistently said that is the GM's job period.

You have, but before you would put forth arguments why that is the case.  In your last posts you have simply stated it and became frustrated and confrontational when I disagreed.

 

I said that those things are true in general, but not in the way that you are trying to apply them.  You are trying to use that as some justification that Woody should have fired Rex, or it has something to do with his character. 

Yep, and I still say that if Woody wanted the new GM to have the power to fire Rex, he should have done the decent thing and let Rex go right after the season so he can line up another job when everyone else is. The new GM was not going to keep Rex unless he was buddies with Ryan in the past, and the chances of that are miniscule.

 

Aburd.  I'm done.  Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall.

Have a nice life.


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#140 slats

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:50 AM

If By the same token, the head coach usually gets to pick his assistant coaches.  But when Rex came here, even though he was much more highly rated as a head coach candidate than Idzik was rated as a GM candidate, he didn't.  He was stuck with Schottenheimer.  Then when they got rid of Schottenheimer, Rex was given the choice, and he chose Sparano.  When that didn't work out, Rex lost the chance to pick his offensive coordinator again.
 
The job is whatever the man who pays you says it is.


I don't know about that. Mornhinweg and Idzik were hired the same day, iirc. We can speculate that Idzik had a hand in the hire, but I'm pretty sure that was ultimately Rex's hire.
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#141 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:05 AM

Okay, but if Idzik's job is to asses all aspects of the Jets, including Rex, through training camp and games, then you are basically saying that Woody gave Rex the job for at least this year.  Because I don't think Woody has in mind Idzik saying after preseason game #2, "We need a new head coach now, let's start looking".

 

If Woody gave Idzik the right to fire Rex this year, Idzik or any other general manager would do so and move his own choice in, guaranteed.  That's why, if Woody was willing to let the new GM get rid of Rex, he should have cleared Rex out with Tannenbaum and let the man hook up with another team while the positions are available.  To do anything else would show lack of character.

 

That is not guaranteed at all.  It is entirely possible he would keep Rex on even if he was allowed to fire him.  You are making some grand assumptions, such as a GM forming the same opinions that you have with Rex, and also that Idzik had someone in mind - "his own choice" - who was presently available and who wanted to take over a train wreck of a roster in 2013.  You're looking at the roster situation with July's viewpoint instead of January's.  

 

Coaching this team will be far more attractive, for a new coach, in 2014 than in 2013.

 

Rex, while he did plenty of boneheaded things, also had enough cards stacked against him that 6-10 might not even be considered a bad season around the league:

  • No QB
  • No backup or future QB
  • Injured #1 WR
  • Unready and then injured #2 WR
  • 1 healthy slot WR
  • starting TE was injured
  • RBs underwhelming
  • FB awful
  • While the OL graded out ok comparatively, the stud LT and C having down seasons while the other 3 ranged from meh to decent.  RT was an undrafted castoff who was forced into starting.  Roster's other linemen included a 2nd round bust the team drafted and a #2 overall pick bust that St Louis just wanted to be rid of.
  • Top player on defense, Revis, got concussed during week 1, causing him to miss week 2, then got knocked out for the season during week 3.  In other words, for the whole season he played in 2 games and got knocked out of both.
  • Team's only player with obvious, potentially star-like pass-rushing skills was a rookie who doesn't have an obvious position on a team chiefly employing a 3-4 front alignment.
  • 3 starting LBers were years past their prime.  The 4th starting LB took a major step backwards and guaranteed $25M from 2012-2013.
  • Recently re-signed NT was playing injured & play dropped off some as well at age 33.  Player drafted to take his place merely showed "some flashes" in 2012 (and was injured for the middle third of the season anyway).
  • OC was garbage (yes, he was Rex's hire, but it still was a handicap.  Particularly for a HC whose expertise is on the other side of the ball).
  • Special teams went down the toilet after being perpetually among the league's best for a decade. 

So you will have to accept that there are GMs in the NFL who would look at all that and say to themselves that 2 games shy of .500 isn't the worst thing they could imagine as a final record.  A GM could easily conclude that, given that the team went to the AFCCG in 2 of the prior 3 seasons before, that the most recent 6-10 record might not be due to poor coaching from Rex.

 

And a GM could say that Rex is a big part of the failure and needs to be tossed out immediately as part of a culture change.  But there is no "guarantee" that every 1st-time GM would make that move if given the opportunity.


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#142 kelticwizard

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:34 PM

I don't know about that. Mornhinweg and Idzik were hired the same day, iirc. We can speculate that Idzik had a hand in the hire, but I'm pretty sure that was ultimately Rex's hire.

You are absolutely correct, Mornhinweg was Rex's hire.  I did a little checking back, and that's the way it worked out.


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#143 kelticwizard

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:42 PM

 It is entirely possible he would keep Rex on even if he was allowed to fire him....

Impressive post, but probably moot.  I did some checking back when.  Rex was going to keep his job for this year at least regardless of who got hired for GM. 

 

The following is a quote.

 

NY Jets hire Seattle Seahawks VP John Idzik to be Gang Green’s new general manager
Idzik, 52, will have final say on personnel matters, not Rex Ryan. The Jets’ head coach, however, will have authority to rebuild his staff, which lost nine coaches in the past three weeks
By Manish Mehta / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Published: Friday, January 18, 2013, 4:49 PM Updated: Monday, January 21, 2013, 1:18 PM
 
jetsweb19s-1-web.jpg David Gonzales/ASSOCIATED PRESS  

Seahawks vice president of football administration John Idzik takes GM role with Jets.

inform.jpg

Woody Johnson began repairing his wayward franchise by hiring Seattle Seahawks executive John Idzik as the Jets’ new general manager on Friday.

Idzik has the arduous task of fixing a team with a thin roster, a slew of salary-cap hurdles, a quarterback dilemma and a polarizing head coach who could be a lame duck.

 
“After a thorough search in which we met many qualified and outstanding candidates, it was clear to me that John was the right choice,” Johnson said in a statement released by the Jets. “During his two decades in the NFL, John helped build a Super Bowl championship team in Tampa Bay, an NFC championship team in Arizona and, most recently, a team in Seattle that narrowly missed reaching the NFC Championship Game.
 
“John has seen firsthand what’s necessary to construct a winning team and has worked with some of the most innovative and successful coaches in the NFL, including Pete Carroll, Tony Dungy, Dennis Green, Jon Gruden and Mike Holmgren. Drawing on 20 years of NFL experience, John, working with Rex (Ryan), will get the Jets where all of us want to be.”
 
Nearly three weeks after the regular season ended, Johnson chose Idzik, whose expertise lies in contract negotiations and salary-cap navigation rather than scouting and personnel. 
 
Idzik, 52, will have final say on personnel matters, not Ryan. The Jets’ head coach, however, will have authority to rebuild his staff, which lost nine coaches in the past three weeks. To that end, the Jets will hire Marty Mornhinweg, who was part of the coaching purge with the Eagles, as the new offensive coordinator, according to a source. Mornhinweg will replace Tony Sparano, who was fired after one season.
 
The prevailing thought was that the Jets, whose paper-thin roster was exposed during their 6-10 season after injuries to key players, would pick a GM with a scouting-centric background, but Johnson opted for a candidate  whose traits were similar to those of the recently fired Mike Tannenbaum. 
 
However, Idzik, who was the Seahawks’ vice president of football administration, isn’t a Tannenbaum clone. He played football at Dartmouth before coaching two years as a college assistant. A source who knows Idzik called him “smart, honest (and) tough” and told The News that he was on the college scouting trail this season for Seattle. 
 
“I am eager to get started building on the foundation that is already in place,” Idzik said in a statement.
 
Another source who worked with Idzik during his 11-year tenure with the Buccaneers said Idzik routinely watched game film with coaches and the personnel department to better grasp the team’s roster. However, that’s no substitute for extensive field scouting. 
 
Early in the search process, Jets were preparing an offer for Falcons’ personnel guru David Caldwell, who was one of three candidates to get a second interview, before he chose the Jaguars GM job. Caldwell had requested a $1 million housing allowance, according to the team. 
 
In all, the Jets interviewed 10 candidates, including three former NFL GMs — Jerry Angelo, Randy Mueller and Ted Sundquist — the 49ers’ Tom Gamble, the Giants’ Marc Ross and the Dolphins’ Brian Gaine. 
 
Johnson, team president Neil Glat and executive search firm head Jed Hughes were present for all the interviews, while Ira Akselrad, the president of the Johnson Companies and an adviser to the owner, was there for most of them. 
 
Idzik, who was a part of the Jets’ expanded search, and Steelers executive Omar Khan were the two finalists. Idzik flew in from Seattle for a second interview on Wednesday before negotiations began on Thursday.
 
Idzik will rely on consensus- building when evaluating talent. There will not be an overhaul of the personnel department, but some changes could be made, according to a source. 
 
Idzik shared philosophies with Ryan during his second phase of interviewing, but the head coach wasn’t part of the final evaluation process. Idzik will inherit Ryan for at least one season, as Johnson indicated to all the candidates.  
 
It will ultimately be Idzik’s job to reshape the roster to further the organization’s long-term efforts. 
 
The Jets are nearly $20 million over the salary cap, but expected moves such as cutting Bart Scott, Calvin Pace and Jason Smith will put them under the max value. Idzik will make more cuts and likely restructure some contracts to re-set the team during this rebuilding process. 
 
The Seahawks’ recent history suggests that they aren’t shy about making trades, either. 
 
One of the first orders of business for Idzik will be to determine how to handle the quarterback situation that helped derail Ryan’s team. Mark Sanchez’s contract — he has an $8.25 million guaranteed base salary in 2013 — will make it extremely difficult to trade him. 
 
The Jets will almost certainly bring in a signal-caller to compete with Sanchez. Seahawks GM John Schneider made it clear that he’s willing to entertain offers for Matt Flynn, who has become expendable in the wake of Russell Wilson’s rise. 
 
Idzik will also have to make a definitive decision on Tim Tebow, who provided more headlines than production in his first season with the Jets. 
 
Jets’ brass was impressed by Idzik’s vision for the franchise. 
 
Now, it’s time to turn those ideas into action. 

Read more: http://www.nydailyne...5#ixzz2YaAHry1O

 

Found at:  http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1242785


Edited by kelticwizard, 09 July 2013 - 03:51 PM.

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#144 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:48 PM

Impressive post, but probably moot.  I did some checking back when.  The following is a quote.

 

NY Jets hire Seattle Seahawks VP John Idzik to be Gang Green’s new general manager
 
Jets’ brass was impressed by Idzik’s vision for the franchise. 
 
Now, it’s time to turn those ideas into action. 

Read more: http://www.nydailyne...5#ixzz2YaAHry1O

 

Found at:  http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1242785

 

It is entirely possible - perhaps even likely - that Idzik was not permitted to fire Ryan until at least mid-season.  But all I was saying (in my extended-version way) is that Rex's presence doesn't mean that Idzik was denied that power upon being hired.

 

Also which part was the quote? You quoted the whole article and highlighted multiple passages.

 

*edit* - nevermind, I see which one you're referring to.  Just keep in mind the author of that article.


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#145 kelticwizard

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 04:19 PM

Not to pile on, but here's another report.  I don't know the sportswriters enough to form opinions, other than I'm not crazy about Florio's attitude.  But a lot of posters here make it clear that Mehta was not highly regarded among many Jets fans, so here's a different author, (the following is a quote):

 

 

 

Jets Name Leaders in Front Office and Offense

By BEN SHPIGEL Published: January 19, 2013

 

The Jets’ roster lacks quality and depth. There is disarray at quarterback. Their salary-cap situation is daunting.

 
On Friday, they hired two men to help them deal with those problems. An extensive 19-day search ended when the Jets selected John Idzik, formerly the vice president for football administration for the Seattle Seahawks, as their general manager.
 

In a move that may carry risks, the Jets selected a candidate thoroughly experienced in salary-cap management and contract negotiations — much like his predecessor, Mike Tannenbaum — and not player evaluation and scouting. Idzik, 52, emerged from a field of 10 interviewed contenders, including former general managers, current personnel executives and administrators on the business side.

 

Idzik’s arrival came on the same day Coach Rex Ryan made the most critical decision of his tenure, choosing Marty Mornhinweg, who spent the previous 10 seasons with the Philadelphia Eagles, as the team’s offensive coordinator. The Jets, who went 6-10 this season, lost nine members of their coaching staff in the last three weeks.

 

Just as Ryan will be judged for how Mornhinweg, his third offensive coordinator in three seasons, fares in implementing his desire for an unpredictable and attacking offense, Idzik will be evaluated for his attempt to resolve the Jets’ quarterback quandary. He will decide the fate of Mark Sanchez, whose prohibitive contract — $8.25 million guaranteed — increases the possibility that he will remain with the team in some capacity for 2013, and of Tim Tebow, who is all but certain to be traded or released.

 

Idzik will also need to revamp an offense devoid of playmakers and dismantle, then rebuild, a roster in a salary-cap crunch: the Jets are roughly $20 million over the projected salary cap of $121 million.

 

It will be Mornhinweg’s responsibility to mold that new offensive talent into a cohesive, productive group. Mornhinweg’s hiring is the clearest signal yet that the Jets will adjust their philosophy, shifting from the so-called ground-and-pound to a more West Coast-style passing offense — shorter, horizontal routes — that produced four of the top five scoring seasons in Eagles history. His familiarity with Michael Vick may fuel speculation that, after Vick’s expected departure from Philadelphia, he could find a home with the Jets, although it is unclear why they would want essentially an amalgamation of Sanchez and Tebow: a left-handed, turnover-prone quarterback.

 

Idzik, who has a bachelor’s degree in mathematics from Dartmouth and a master’s degree in liberal studies from Duke, has spent the last 20 seasons in the N.F.L. — 11 with Tampa Bay, 3 with Arizona and 6 in Seattle, where his responsibilities included contract negotiations, salary-cap compliance and football operations budgeting. Idzik, who will report directly to the team owner Woody Johnson, will also work closely with Ryan, who had significant input on roster construction under Tannenbaum. Johnson has guaranteed Ryan’s return for 2013.

 

Despite Johnson’s recent assertion that Ryan is the “perfect” coach for the Jets, his status could be endangered if Idzik, after next season, feels differently.

 

As reflected by the first wave of candidates in the search led by Jed Hughes of the recruiting firm Korn/Ferry, the Jets were initially interested in finding someone with experience in player personnel. They considered two candidates who accepted general manager positions elsewhere — David Caldwell (Jacksonville) and Tom Telesco (San Diego) — and it was only after they expanded their pursuit, about 10 days ago, that Idzik emerged as an option. He interviewed last week and again Wednesday before being offered the position.

 

Only one other candidate — Omar Khan, the director of business and football administration for Pittsburgh — had a second interview.

 

In a statement, Johnson said Idzik’s experience working with coaches like Pete Carroll, Tony Dungy and Mike Holmgren was an asset. “John has seen firsthand what’s necessary to construct a winning team,” Johnson, said, adding, “Drawing on 20 years of N.F.L. experience, John, working with Rex, will get the Jets where all of us want to be.”

 

Mornhinweg, who emerged from a group of candidates that also included the New Orleans quarterback coach Joe Lombardi and the former Browns coach Pat Shurmur, has spent the last 18 seasons in the N.F.L. — 16 on offensive staffs and 2, in 2001 and 2002, as the Detroit Lions’ head coach.

 

https://www.nytimes....oordinator.html


Edited by kelticwizard, 09 July 2013 - 04:21 PM.

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