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Reasons for optimism


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#1 stoicsentry

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:17 PM

Oh, don't get me wrong, we'll probably suck this year. But it sure looks like we'll be set up nicely for 2014.

 

We'll have a top 10 pick. So if Geno is legit, we'll have flexibility there. If he sucks this year, we can use that pick for a QB.

 

We'll have an O-Line that needs maybe 1 more piece, a D-Line that is young, talented and improving and our corners are set.

 

We'll certainly have a lot of weaknesses, but again we'll have a top 10 pick, we should have TONS of $$$ to spend and say what you want about Woody Johnson but he has rarely failed to spend, so we should be big time players in free agency.

 

Agree/disagree?


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#2 pointman

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:50 PM

I am not so sure we get a top ten pick. I don't think this season is a lost cause if we get remotely better qb play and our wide outs stay healthy.

 

Our o line isn't bad, but we aren't 1 piece away from being what we once were. And corner, Cromartie might not be around after this season. Kyle Wilson... sucks. Dee Underbite hasn't seen one snap.


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#3 Freemanm

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:45 PM

I am not so sure we get a top ten pick. I don't think this season is a lost cause if we get remotely better qb play and our wide outs stay healthy.

 

Our o line isn't bad, but we aren't 1 piece away from being what we once were. And corner, Cromartie might not be around after this season. Kyle Wilson... sucks. Dee Underbite hasn't seen one snap.

 

I hate to disagree, Pointman, but our receivers suck. Santonio Homes probably will miss most of camp, but even if he were there, he still sucks. We all agree that Sanchez is not even close to being a backup QB, let alone a starter. We also don't have a quality HB so forget about the ground n' pound game (let's face it, we wouldnt' have a runnin game anyway because of our OL). Our defense needs pass rushers and DBs. Wilkerson and Coples are decent, and we'll see how the rookie pans out, ditto at corner. Cromartie does show flashes of brilliance but is inconsistent and Kyle Wilson swims in a sea of mediocrity. We'll see how Dee does, but he's still a rookie.

 

I predict that Sanchez will be pulled in favor of Geno by game 3. Morningwheg will take Geno aside during the first two games, point to Sanchez and say "do you see what Sanchez is doing? Go out and do the polar opposite, and you should be fine...)


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#4 T0mShane

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:51 PM

I do like that they'll have a clean slate as early as next year, and we'll have purged the detritus of the Bradway/Tannenbaum lineage. If Geno can play, the team will compete next year, IMO. If he can't, it could be bleak for two or three years until they find the quarterback. That's partially why I think they'll hire Darrell Bevell to replace Rex. It's an offensive league and you either have to draft a great QB (like Luck, RGIII), or you have to make a quarterback (like Flacco or Kaepernick). Having a guy in charge that can build around a quarterback will be key.
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#5 pointman

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 12:27 AM

I hate to disagree, Pointman, but our receivers suck. Santonio Homes probably will miss most of camp, but even if he were there, he still sucks. We all agree that Sanchez is not even close to being a backup QB, let alone a starter. We also don't have a quality HB so forget about the ground n' pound game (let's face it, we wouldnt' have a runnin game anyway because of our OL). Our defense needs pass rushers and DBs. Wilkerson and Coples are decent, and we'll see how the rookie pans out, ditto at corner. Cromartie does show flashes of brilliance but is inconsistent and Kyle Wilson swims in a sea of mediocrity. We'll see how Dee does, but he's still a rookie.

 

I predict that Sanchez will be pulled in favor of Geno by game 3. Morningwheg will take Geno aside during the first two games, point to Sanchez and say "do you see what Sanchez is doing? Go out and do the polar opposite, and you should be fine...)

lol, our wr corp isn't that bad. But so many on this forum want to see the young guys get a shot, so I guess I am wrong thinking we need to get some receiver talent beyond a bunch of turds off the scrap heap. 

 

Ivory has a shot to be legit. The guy is a punishing running, and maybe he does something once given the starting reigns. Goodson/McKnight... good speed duo. I am curious to see what we get out of the running backs. 

 

I honestly never want to see us draft another d lineman again. I don't care what our fat guys do, no more drafting d linemen. 

 

I want to see Geno game 1.I don't care if he sucks. No more Sanchez ever again. I would love to see McElroy get a shot, even though his arm is on par with my plate of pasta.


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#6 flgreen

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:37 PM

Take 5: Reasons to hope

 

 

July, 10, 2013

 

Jul 10

 

 

3:27

 

 

PM ET

 

 

By  Rich Cimini | ESPNNewYork.com

 

 

 

 

Our "Take 5" series continues with an optimistic view of the upcoming season -- reasons to get excited about 2013:

 

 

1. The hunger is back: Let's face it, the Jets got complacent after back-to-back appearances in the AFC Championship Game. They had too many overpaid veterans with a sense of entitlement. Those days should be gone. New GM John Idzik is trying to change the culture. He dismantled the roster, instilling (through Rex Ryan) a competitive environment. No more fat cats.

 

 

2. New old philosophy on defense: Ryan is the de facto defensive coordinator, running the entire show -- just like he did in 2009 and 2010. The plan is to get back to their ultra-aggressive ways on defense, which means heavy doses of pressure schemes. If first-round pick Dee Milliner emerges as a solid corner opposite Antonio Cromartie, Ryan will have the 1-2 punch he covets, allowing him to play man-to-man and crank up the blitzing.

 

 

3. No Revis, no problem: The defense has a chip on its shoulder, eager to prove it can be an elite unit without Darrelle Revis. That should provide plenty of motivation, especially for Cromartie & Co. in the secondary. They will be sky high to face Revis in the season opener.

 

 

4. MartyBall: We're not saying new OC Marty Mornhinweg is another Bill Walsh, but we know he's not another Tony Sparano -- and that's a good thing. Mornhinweg is an experienced play caller with a proven system, and his background with quarterbacks is bound to help Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith. Mornhinweg doesn't have many weapons, but at least he has a plan.

 

 

5. Younger, faster: You'll notice this mostly in the front seven, which turned glacially slow last season. The addition of first-round DT Sheldon Richardson will help. So will expanded roles for DE/OLB Quinton Coples, LB DeMario Davis and NT Kenrick Ellis. There's still a shortage of speed on offense, but they should be slightly better in the backfield, with the additions of Mike Goodson (if he's not in jail or suspended) and Chris Ivory.


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#7 pedro55

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 03:47 PM

I do like that they'll have a clean slate as early as next year, and we'll have purged the detritus of the Bradway/Tannenbaum lineage. If Geno can play, the team will compete next year, IMO. If he can't, it could be bleak for two or three years until they find the quarterback. That's partially why I think they'll hire Darrell Bevell to replace Rex. It's an offensive league and you either have to draft a great QB (like Luck, RGIII), or you have to make a quarterback (like Flacco or Kaepernick). Having a guy in charge that can build around a quarterback will be key.

 

  Honestly Harbaugh might be a former QB, but the 49ers aren't all that different than the Jets were the first few years with Rex.   They were more a depend more on defense, run the ball,  QB can't turn the ball over kind of team.  Last year Kapernick was thrown into the mix and he was a stud. But nobody can say the guy is some future HOF QB.     But the 49ers were a hard hitting team that depended on their defense and their QBs not turning the ball over.  Doesn't sound all that different than the Jets a few years back.   

 

 My worry is unless they start finding playmakers and a QB,  they bring in a new HC who is an offense minded guy and the defense starts to slip.  As much as people seem to hate Rex, the guy knows defense.  When he's gone, I doubt the Jets defense will continue to be as good as when he's gone.  And then they will need to depend on the offense and the QB.   So if Geno isn't the guy, going into next year, the only hope is they find that next QB,  some stud WRs, a stud RB, etc to actually win games.    Or it'll be one of those things where it's years of some new coach changing what the last coach did.


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#8 JiF

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:08 PM

  Honestly Harbaugh might be a former QB, but the 49ers aren't all that different than the Jets were the first few years with Rex.   They were more a depend more on defense, run the ball,  QB can't turn the ball over kind of team.  Last year Kapernick was thrown into the mix and he was a stud. But nobody can say the guy is some future HOF QB.     But the 49ers were a hard hitting team that depended on their defense and their QBs not turning the ball over.  Doesn't sound all that different than the Jets a few years back.   

 

 My worry is unless they start finding playmakers and a QB,  they bring in a new HC who is an offense minded guy and the defense starts to slip.  As much as people seem to hate Rex, the guy knows defense.  When he's gone, I doubt the Jets defense will continue to be as good as when he's gone.  And then they will need to depend on the offense and the QB.   So if Geno isn't the guy, going into next year, the only hope is they find that next QB,  some stud WRs, a stud RB, etc to actually win games.    Or it'll be one of those things where it's years of some new coach changing what the last coach did.

 

Tom's an idiot and doesnt know what he's talking about.  All the so called best teams in the NFL are built out of the same mold as the Jets were in 09, 10 and 11.  Difference is QB play.  The Jets had way below average, those others teams either have average or slightly above and thats why they are staying consistent and the Jets have declined.  

 

Ravens, 49'ers, Seahawks, Bengals, Texans, Vikings, Redskins are all run first, play good defense and have your QB manage the game style teams.  All made the playoffs, 2 made the SB out of the exact vein.  The difference?  They have QB's that can elevate the play of offense.  The Jets do not.

 

Yeah, the Packers and Patriots and Falcons and now Denver with Manning...are going to win a lot of games and pretty much always make the playoffs but when push comes to shove, your defense needs to make a stop and a running game can slow down a great offense and the teams that could do that, prevailed...just like the Jets did in 09 and 10.  


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#9 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:11 PM

Tom's an idiot and doesnt know what he's talking about.  All the so called best teams in the NFL are built out of the same mold as the Jets were in 09, 10 and 11.  Difference is QB play.  The Jets had way below average, those others teams either have average or slightly above and thats why they are staying consistent and the Jets have declined.  

 

Ravens, 49'ers, Seahawks, Bengals, Texans, Vikings, Redskins are all run first, play good defense and have your QB manage the game style teams.  All made the playoffs, 2 made the SB out of the exact vein.  The difference?  They have QB's that can elevate the play of offense.  The Jets do not.

 

Yeah, the Packers and Patriots and Falcons and now Denver with Manning...are going to win a lot of games and pretty much always make the playoffs but when push comes to shove, your defense needs to make a stop and a running game can slow down a great offense and the teams that could do that, prevailed...just like the Jets did in 09 and 10.  

 

?


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#10 JiF

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 04:25 PM

?

 

"All made the playoffs, 2 made the SB out of the exact vein" - I was referring to the 2 that made the SB.


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#11 Apache 51

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 05:56 PM

If we have a viable QB 2 years min. if not 4.


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#12 Jettington

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 06:04 PM

This team will not suck this year, this team will actually have a better record than last year. Don't believe the incessant media onslaught against the Jets, we are vastly underestimated and I genuinely believe we will be better than both the Bills and Dolphins.


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#13 Greenseed4

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 07:58 PM

Nt

Edited by Greenseed4, 11 July 2013 - 10:57 AM.

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#14 T0mShane

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 09:16 PM

"All made the playoffs, 2 made the SB out of the exact vein" - I was referring to the 2 that made the SB.



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#15 Maxman

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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:01 PM

Playoffs.


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#16 JoeKlecko

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:34 AM

  Honestly Harbaugh might be a former QB, but the 49ers aren't all that different than the Jets were the first few years with Rex.   They were more a depend more on defense, run the ball,  QB can't turn the ball over kind of team.  Last year Kapernick was thrown into the mix and he was a stud. But nobody can say the guy is some future HOF QB.     But the 49ers were a hard hitting team that depended on their defense and their QBs not turning the ball over.  Doesn't sound all that different than the Jets a few years back.   

 

 My worry is unless they start finding playmakers and a QB,  they bring in a new HC who is an offense minded guy and the defense starts to slip.  As much as people seem to hate Rex, the guy knows defense.  When he's gone, I doubt the Jets defense will continue to be as good as when he's gone.  And then they will need to depend on the offense and the QB.   So if Geno isn't the guy, going into next year, the only hope is they find that next QB,  some stud WRs, a stud RB, etc to actually win games.    Or it'll be one of those things where it's years of some new coach changing what the last coach did.

 

Your last sentence is where the Jets have continually killed themselves.  It's one thing to change your HC or a coordinator and keep systems basically the same, perhaps with some tweaking or a slightly different emphasis.  It's a totally different thing to change your HC and/or coordinators and radically change the systems they use as the Jets have done, especially as often as they have changed HCs and coordinators. Couple that with poor draft choices or not enough draft choices, and it's a wonder the Jets have done as well as they have.  

 

IMO, that more than anything else is what has hurt the team so much over the years.  A new guy comes in and hardly any of the talent present fits his style of play, so he has to try to turn over that whole unit and get players who fit his system.  The lack of continuity from the CS hurts a lot, but the killer is continually having to turnover your roster.  Then instead of continuing to build the talent level and depth, you're starting from scratch and trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

 

Yes, Rex is a great DC and there would be every chance the play of the D could tail off, but if Rex is fired, regardless if they hire an offensive-minded or defensive-minded HC the way to prevent that from happening is that they need to hire a DC who will run the same basic system and take the same basic aggressive approach as Rex, not hire someone who runs a more passive read and react-type system, a traditional 4-3 or the Tampa Bay type system than Herm ran.  There is already a lot of young talent on hand suitable to play a base 3-4 with mixing in some other alignments and If Ivory, Goodson, and Smith work out, give Idzik FA and the draft next year, and they could be set both offensively and defensively.  There are players like Richardson who would fit the Tampa Bay system, but aside from maybe Barnes, they don't have a single traditional 4-3 DE on the roster, and may only have 1-2 of the LBers for that system.  At present they don't really have great safeties for any system.


Edited by JoeKlecko, 11 July 2013 - 11:36 AM.

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#17 Matt39

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:41 AM

The purge of the NIners roster has already begun...in the cap era it was pretty remarkable how much talent that team had, up there with the 90's great teams. Niners are a unique case....we obviously still need the QB, building a roster w tht much talent now is nearly impossible.
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#18 Jacked4JetsFB

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:06 PM

Reasons for optimism? Simple, Rex=Great Defense. Geno>MrButffumble by a lot = playoffs. Bank it!


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#19 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:44 PM

Your last sentence is where the Jets have continually killed themselves.  It's one thing to change your HC or a coordinator and keep systems basically the same, perhaps with some tweaking or a slightly different emphasis.  It's a totally different thing to change your HC and/or coordinators and radically change the systems they use as the Jets have done, especially as often as they have changed HCs and coordinators. Couple that with poor draft choices or not enough draft choices, and it's a wonder the Jets have done as well as they have.  

 

IMO, that more than anything else is what has hurt the team so much over the years.  A new guy comes in and hardly any of the talent present fits his style of play, so he has to try to turn over that whole unit and get players who fit his system.  The lack of continuity from the CS hurts a lot, but the killer is continually having to turnover your roster.  Then instead of continuing to build the talent level and depth, you're starting from scratch and trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

 

Yes, Rex is a great DC and there would be every chance the play of the D could tail off, but if Rex is fired, regardless if they hire an offensive-minded or defensive-minded HC the way to prevent that from happening is that they need to hire a DC who will run the same basic system and take the same basic aggressive approach as Rex, not hire someone who runs a more passive read and react-type system, a traditional 4-3 or the Tampa Bay type system than Herm ran.  There is already a lot of young talent on hand suitable to play a base 3-4 with mixing in some other alignments and If Ivory, Goodson, and Smith work out, give Idzik FA and the draft next year, and they could be set both offensively and defensively.  There are players like Richardson who would fit the Tampa Bay system, but aside from maybe Barnes, they don't have a single traditional 4-3 DE on the roster, and may only have 1-2 of the LBers for that system.  At present they don't really have great safeties for any system.

 

It was pretty ridiculous in back-to-back coaching changes, going from Parcells/Groh to Herm, then from Herm to Mangini.  Two full roster purges to get players who fit the "new" defense (made all the more awful considering the players the team acquired to fit Herm's piece of crap on D.  At least that purge wasn't required from Mangini to Rex.  


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#20 Jacked4JetsFB

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:48 PM

It was pretty ridiculous in back-to-back coaching changes, going from Parcells/Groh to Herm, then from Herm to Mangini.  Two full roster purges to get players who fit the "new" defense (made all the more awful considering the players the team acquired to fit Herm's piece of crap on D.  At least that purge wasn't required from Mangini to Rex.  

 

I still think the dumbest move was taking the team Parcells built, with Vinny at the helm, and a 3-4 defense, and a WCO. It was like taking a team that could have competed for a SB, and saying, what is the absolute opposite to the strengths of the core players, lets bring in those systems. That team was so talented it made Herm actually look competent for a few years.


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#21 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:51 PM

I still think the dumbest move was taking the team Parcells built, with Vinny at the helm, and a 3-4 defense, and a WCO. It was like taking a team that could have competed for a SB, and saying, what is the absolute opposite to the strengths of the core players, lets bring in those systems. That team was so talented it made Herm actually look competent for a few years.

 

It wasn't "like" saying that.  It was absolutely saying that. 


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#22 Jacked4JetsFB

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:18 PM

It wasn't "like" saying that.  It was absolutely saying that. 

I still believe to this day that Parcells told woody to hire Badway because he knew how incompetent Badway was, and that it would make him (parcells) look even better after he was gone when Badway destroyed the team. I really think Parcells may be that much of an egomaniac.


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#23 JoeKlecko

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:35 PM

It was pretty ridiculous in back-to-back coaching changes, going from Parcells/Groh to Herm, then from Herm to Mangini.  Two full roster purges to get players who fit the "new" defense (made all the more awful considering the players the team acquired to fit Herm's piece of crap on D.  At least that purge wasn't required from Mangini to Rex.

 

Definitely.

 

Going from Mangini to Rex, who at least both use a base 3-4 alignment is one of the reasons why the Jets were able to do as well as they did in 2009-2010.  They didn't have to do a roster purge or learn a whole new system.  They just went from a more passive read and react-type system under Mangini to a more aggressive system with Rex.  I think that is another reason the Jets got that bump.  I remember the players saying how much more fun it was to be aggressive and attacking that sitting back and being more passive.


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#24 JoeKlecko

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:40 PM

I still believe to this day that Parcells told woody to hire Badway because he knew how incompetent Badway was, and that it would make him (parcells) look even better after he was gone when Badway destroyed the team. I really think Parcells may be that much of an egomaniac.

 

I agree about Parcells being that egomaniacal and that wouldn't surprise me at all.  

 

It's hard for me to understand, but I've heard of others who were giants in their fields of endeavor say outright that they would not help develop the next young talent coming along,and in fact, would do all they could to hinder that young talent, so that they themselves would continue to look greater and harder to replace.

 

If I were at the top of my field, I'd WANT to mentor young talent, and have it be known that I cared about others and my field of endeavor so much that I helped to keep it strong and successful.  It's sad how petty and self-centered some people can be.


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#25 NCJETSFAN

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 01:48 PM

We have no RBS ( all we are hoping that they are the real thing) no WRS to speak of ( Holmes will be out a while no qb On defense we can't stop run. D line might be good but we have no LBS and no one to rush passer and no safety's !

This is the honest truth abt this team right now !

And with FAS whose avail to sign next year ?
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