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Reasons for optimism


stoicsentry

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Oh, don't get me wrong, we'll probably suck this year. But it sure looks like we'll be set up nicely for 2014.

 

We'll have a top 10 pick. So if Geno is legit, we'll have flexibility there. If he sucks this year, we can use that pick for a QB.

 

We'll have an O-Line that needs maybe 1 more piece, a D-Line that is young, talented and improving and our corners are set.

 

We'll certainly have a lot of weaknesses, but again we'll have a top 10 pick, we should have TONS of $$$ to spend and say what you want about Woody Johnson but he has rarely failed to spend, so we should be big time players in free agency.

 

Agree/disagree?

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I am not so sure we get a top ten pick. I don't think this season is a lost cause if we get remotely better qb play and our wide outs stay healthy.

 

Our o line isn't bad, but we aren't 1 piece away from being what we once were. And corner, Cromartie might not be around after this season. Kyle Wilson... sucks. Dee Underbite hasn't seen one snap.

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I am not so sure we get a top ten pick. I don't think this season is a lost cause if we get remotely better qb play and our wide outs stay healthy.

 

Our o line isn't bad, but we aren't 1 piece away from being what we once were. And corner, Cromartie might not be around after this season. Kyle Wilson... sucks. Dee Underbite hasn't seen one snap.

 

I hate to disagree, Pointman, but our receivers suck. Santonio Homes probably will miss most of camp, but even if he were there, he still sucks. We all agree that Sanchez is not even close to being a backup QB, let alone a starter. We also don't have a quality HB so forget about the ground n' pound game (let's face it, we wouldnt' have a runnin game anyway because of our OL). Our defense needs pass rushers and DBs. Wilkerson and Coples are decent, and we'll see how the rookie pans out, ditto at corner. Cromartie does show flashes of brilliance but is inconsistent and Kyle Wilson swims in a sea of mediocrity. We'll see how Dee does, but he's still a rookie.

 

I predict that Sanchez will be pulled in favor of Geno by game 3. Morningwheg will take Geno aside during the first two games, point to Sanchez and say "do you see what Sanchez is doing? Go out and do the polar opposite, and you should be fine...)

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I do like that they'll have a clean slate as early as next year, and we'll have purged the detritus of the Bradway/Tannenbaum lineage. If Geno can play, the team will compete next year, IMO. If he can't, it could be bleak for two or three years until they find the quarterback. That's partially why I think they'll hire Darrell Bevell to replace Rex. It's an offensive league and you either have to draft a great QB (like Luck, RGIII), or you have to make a quarterback (like Flacco or Kaepernick). Having a guy in charge that can build around a quarterback will be key.

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I hate to disagree, Pointman, but our receivers suck. Santonio Homes probably will miss most of camp, but even if he were there, he still sucks. We all agree that Sanchez is not even close to being a backup QB, let alone a starter. We also don't have a quality HB so forget about the ground n' pound game (let's face it, we wouldnt' have a runnin game anyway because of our OL). Our defense needs pass rushers and DBs. Wilkerson and Coples are decent, and we'll see how the rookie pans out, ditto at corner. Cromartie does show flashes of brilliance but is inconsistent and Kyle Wilson swims in a sea of mediocrity. We'll see how Dee does, but he's still a rookie.

 

I predict that Sanchez will be pulled in favor of Geno by game 3. Morningwheg will take Geno aside during the first two games, point to Sanchez and say "do you see what Sanchez is doing? Go out and do the polar opposite, and you should be fine...)

lol, our wr corp isn't that bad. But so many on this forum want to see the young guys get a shot, so I guess I am wrong thinking we need to get some receiver talent beyond a bunch of turds off the scrap heap. 

 

Ivory has a shot to be legit. The guy is a punishing running, and maybe he does something once given the starting reigns. Goodson/McKnight... good speed duo. I am curious to see what we get out of the running backs. 

 

I honestly never want to see us draft another d lineman again. I don't care what our fat guys do, no more drafting d linemen. 

 

I want to see Geno game 1.I don't care if he sucks. No more Sanchez ever again. I would love to see McElroy get a shot, even though his arm is on par with my plate of pasta.

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Take 5: Reasons to hope

 

 

July, 10, 2013

 

Jul 10

 

 

3:27

 

 

PM ET

 

 

By  Rich Cimini | ESPNNewYork.com

 

 

 

 

Our "Take 5" series continues with an optimistic view of the upcoming season -- reasons to get excited about 2013:

 

 

1. The hunger is back: Let's face it, the Jets got complacent after back-to-back appearances in the AFC Championship Game. They had too many overpaid veterans with a sense of entitlement. Those days should be gone. New GM John Idzik is trying to change the culture. He dismantled the roster, instilling (through Rex Ryan) a competitive environment. No more fat cats.

 

 

2. New old philosophy on defense: Ryan is the de facto defensive coordinator, running the entire show -- just like he did in 2009 and 2010. The plan is to get back to their ultra-aggressive ways on defense, which means heavy doses of pressure schemes. If first-round pick Dee Milliner emerges as a solid corner opposite Antonio Cromartie, Ryan will have the 1-2 punch he covets, allowing him to play man-to-man and crank up the blitzing.

 

 

3. No Revis, no problem: The defense has a chip on its shoulder, eager to prove it can be an elite unit without Darrelle Revis. That should provide plenty of motivation, especially for Cromartie & Co. in the secondary. They will be sky high to face Revis in the season opener.

 

 

4. MartyBall: We're not saying new OC Marty Mornhinweg is another Bill Walsh, but we know he's not another Tony Sparano -- and that's a good thing. Mornhinweg is an experienced play caller with a proven system, and his background with quarterbacks is bound to help Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith. Mornhinweg doesn't have many weapons, but at least he has a plan.

 

 

5. Younger, faster: You'll notice this mostly in the front seven, which turned glacially slow last season. The addition of first-round DT Sheldon Richardson will help. So will expanded roles for DE/OLB Quinton Coples, LB DeMario Davis and NT Kenrick Ellis. There's still a shortage of speed on offense, but they should be slightly better in the backfield, with the additions of Mike Goodson (if he's not in jail or suspended) and Chris Ivory.

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I do like that they'll have a clean slate as early as next year, and we'll have purged the detritus of the Bradway/Tannenbaum lineage. If Geno can play, the team will compete next year, IMO. If he can't, it could be bleak for two or three years until they find the quarterback. That's partially why I think they'll hire Darrell Bevell to replace Rex. It's an offensive league and you either have to draft a great QB (like Luck, RGIII), or you have to make a quarterback (like Flacco or Kaepernick). Having a guy in charge that can build around a quarterback will be key.

 

  Honestly Harbaugh might be a former QB, but the 49ers aren't all that different than the Jets were the first few years with Rex.   They were more a depend more on defense, run the ball,  QB can't turn the ball over kind of team.  Last year Kapernick was thrown into the mix and he was a stud. But nobody can say the guy is some future HOF QB.     But the 49ers were a hard hitting team that depended on their defense and their QBs not turning the ball over.  Doesn't sound all that different than the Jets a few years back.   

 

 My worry is unless they start finding playmakers and a QB,  they bring in a new HC who is an offense minded guy and the defense starts to slip.  As much as people seem to hate Rex, the guy knows defense.  When he's gone, I doubt the Jets defense will continue to be as good as when he's gone.  And then they will need to depend on the offense and the QB.   So if Geno isn't the guy, going into next year, the only hope is they find that next QB,  some stud WRs, a stud RB, etc to actually win games.    Or it'll be one of those things where it's years of some new coach changing what the last coach did.

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  Honestly Harbaugh might be a former QB, but the 49ers aren't all that different than the Jets were the first few years with Rex.   They were more a depend more on defense, run the ball,  QB can't turn the ball over kind of team.  Last year Kapernick was thrown into the mix and he was a stud. But nobody can say the guy is some future HOF QB.     But the 49ers were a hard hitting team that depended on their defense and their QBs not turning the ball over.  Doesn't sound all that different than the Jets a few years back.   

 

 My worry is unless they start finding playmakers and a QB,  they bring in a new HC who is an offense minded guy and the defense starts to slip.  As much as people seem to hate Rex, the guy knows defense.  When he's gone, I doubt the Jets defense will continue to be as good as when he's gone.  And then they will need to depend on the offense and the QB.   So if Geno isn't the guy, going into next year, the only hope is they find that next QB,  some stud WRs, a stud RB, etc to actually win games.    Or it'll be one of those things where it's years of some new coach changing what the last coach did.

 

Tom's an idiot and doesnt know what he's talking about.  All the so called best teams in the NFL are built out of the same mold as the Jets were in 09, 10 and 11.  Difference is QB play.  The Jets had way below average, those others teams either have average or slightly above and thats why they are staying consistent and the Jets have declined.  

 

Ravens, 49'ers, Seahawks, Bengals, Texans, Vikings, Redskins are all run first, play good defense and have your QB manage the game style teams.  All made the playoffs, 2 made the SB out of the exact vein.  The difference?  They have QB's that can elevate the play of offense.  The Jets do not.

 

Yeah, the Packers and Patriots and Falcons and now Denver with Manning...are going to win a lot of games and pretty much always make the playoffs but when push comes to shove, your defense needs to make a stop and a running game can slow down a great offense and the teams that could do that, prevailed...just like the Jets did in 09 and 10.  

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Tom's an idiot and doesnt know what he's talking about.  All the so called best teams in the NFL are built out of the same mold as the Jets were in 09, 10 and 11.  Difference is QB play.  The Jets had way below average, those others teams either have average or slightly above and thats why they are staying consistent and the Jets have declined.  

 

Ravens, 49'ers, Seahawks, Bengals, Texans, Vikings, Redskins are all run first, play good defense and have your QB manage the game style teams.  All made the playoffs, 2 made the SB out of the exact vein.  The difference?  They have QB's that can elevate the play of offense.  The Jets do not.

 

Yeah, the Packers and Patriots and Falcons and now Denver with Manning...are going to win a lot of games and pretty much always make the playoffs but when push comes to shove, your defense needs to make a stop and a running game can slow down a great offense and the teams that could do that, prevailed...just like the Jets did in 09 and 10.  

 

?

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This team will not suck this year, this team will actually have a better record than last year. Don't believe the incessant media onslaught against the Jets, we are vastly underestimated and I genuinely believe we will be better than both the Bills and Dolphins.

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  Honestly Harbaugh might be a former QB, but the 49ers aren't all that different than the Jets were the first few years with Rex.   They were more a depend more on defense, run the ball,  QB can't turn the ball over kind of team.  Last year Kapernick was thrown into the mix and he was a stud. But nobody can say the guy is some future HOF QB.     But the 49ers were a hard hitting team that depended on their defense and their QBs not turning the ball over.  Doesn't sound all that different than the Jets a few years back.   

 

 My worry is unless they start finding playmakers and a QB,  they bring in a new HC who is an offense minded guy and the defense starts to slip.  As much as people seem to hate Rex, the guy knows defense.  When he's gone, I doubt the Jets defense will continue to be as good as when he's gone.  And then they will need to depend on the offense and the QB.   So if Geno isn't the guy, going into next year, the only hope is they find that next QB,  some stud WRs, a stud RB, etc to actually win games.    Or it'll be one of those things where it's years of some new coach changing what the last coach did.

 

Your last sentence is where the Jets have continually killed themselves.  It's one thing to change your HC or a coordinator and keep systems basically the same, perhaps with some tweaking or a slightly different emphasis.  It's a totally different thing to change your HC and/or coordinators and radically change the systems they use as the Jets have done, especially as often as they have changed HCs and coordinators. Couple that with poor draft choices or not enough draft choices, and it's a wonder the Jets have done as well as they have.  

 

IMO, that more than anything else is what has hurt the team so much over the years.  A new guy comes in and hardly any of the talent present fits his style of play, so he has to try to turn over that whole unit and get players who fit his system.  The lack of continuity from the CS hurts a lot, but the killer is continually having to turnover your roster.  Then instead of continuing to build the talent level and depth, you're starting from scratch and trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

 

Yes, Rex is a great DC and there would be every chance the play of the D could tail off, but if Rex is fired, regardless if they hire an offensive-minded or defensive-minded HC the way to prevent that from happening is that they need to hire a DC who will run the same basic system and take the same basic aggressive approach as Rex, not hire someone who runs a more passive read and react-type system, a traditional 4-3 or the Tampa Bay type system than Herm ran.  There is already a lot of young talent on hand suitable to play a base 3-4 with mixing in some other alignments and If Ivory, Goodson, and Smith work out, give Idzik FA and the draft next year, and they could be set both offensively and defensively.  There are players like Richardson who would fit the Tampa Bay system, but aside from maybe Barnes, they don't have a single traditional 4-3 DE on the roster, and may only have 1-2 of the LBers for that system.  At present they don't really have great safeties for any system.

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The purge of the NIners roster has already begun...in the cap era it was pretty remarkable how much talent that team had, up there with the 90's great teams. Niners are a unique case....we obviously still need the QB, building a roster w tht much talent now is nearly impossible.

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Your last sentence is where the Jets have continually killed themselves.  It's one thing to change your HC or a coordinator and keep systems basically the same, perhaps with some tweaking or a slightly different emphasis.  It's a totally different thing to change your HC and/or coordinators and radically change the systems they use as the Jets have done, especially as often as they have changed HCs and coordinators. Couple that with poor draft choices or not enough draft choices, and it's a wonder the Jets have done as well as they have.  

 

IMO, that more than anything else is what has hurt the team so much over the years.  A new guy comes in and hardly any of the talent present fits his style of play, so he has to try to turn over that whole unit and get players who fit his system.  The lack of continuity from the CS hurts a lot, but the killer is continually having to turnover your roster.  Then instead of continuing to build the talent level and depth, you're starting from scratch and trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

 

Yes, Rex is a great DC and there would be every chance the play of the D could tail off, but if Rex is fired, regardless if they hire an offensive-minded or defensive-minded HC the way to prevent that from happening is that they need to hire a DC who will run the same basic system and take the same basic aggressive approach as Rex, not hire someone who runs a more passive read and react-type system, a traditional 4-3 or the Tampa Bay type system than Herm ran.  There is already a lot of young talent on hand suitable to play a base 3-4 with mixing in some other alignments and If Ivory, Goodson, and Smith work out, give Idzik FA and the draft next year, and they could be set both offensively and defensively.  There are players like Richardson who would fit the Tampa Bay system, but aside from maybe Barnes, they don't have a single traditional 4-3 DE on the roster, and may only have 1-2 of the LBers for that system.  At present they don't really have great safeties for any system.

 

It was pretty ridiculous in back-to-back coaching changes, going from Parcells/Groh to Herm, then from Herm to Mangini.  Two full roster purges to get players who fit the "new" defense (made all the more awful considering the players the team acquired to fit Herm's piece of crap on D.  At least that purge wasn't required from Mangini to Rex.  

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It was pretty ridiculous in back-to-back coaching changes, going from Parcells/Groh to Herm, then from Herm to Mangini.  Two full roster purges to get players who fit the "new" defense (made all the more awful considering the players the team acquired to fit Herm's piece of crap on D.  At least that purge wasn't required from Mangini to Rex.  

 

I still think the dumbest move was taking the team Parcells built, with Vinny at the helm, and a 3-4 defense, and a WCO. It was like taking a team that could have competed for a SB, and saying, what is the absolute opposite to the strengths of the core players, lets bring in those systems. That team was so talented it made Herm actually look competent for a few years.

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I still think the dumbest move was taking the team Parcells built, with Vinny at the helm, and a 3-4 defense, and a WCO. It was like taking a team that could have competed for a SB, and saying, what is the absolute opposite to the strengths of the core players, lets bring in those systems. That team was so talented it made Herm actually look competent for a few years.

 

It wasn't "like" saying that.  It was absolutely saying that. 

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It wasn't "like" saying that.  It was absolutely saying that. 

I still believe to this day that Parcells told woody to hire Badway because he knew how incompetent Badway was, and that it would make him (parcells) look even better after he was gone when Badway destroyed the team. I really think Parcells may be that much of an egomaniac.

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It was pretty ridiculous in back-to-back coaching changes, going from Parcells/Groh to Herm, then from Herm to Mangini.  Two full roster purges to get players who fit the "new" defense (made all the more awful considering the players the team acquired to fit Herm's piece of crap on D.  At least that purge wasn't required from Mangini to Rex.

 

Definitely.

 

Going from Mangini to Rex, who at least both use a base 3-4 alignment is one of the reasons why the Jets were able to do as well as they did in 2009-2010.  They didn't have to do a roster purge or learn a whole new system.  They just went from a more passive read and react-type system under Mangini to a more aggressive system with Rex.  I think that is another reason the Jets got that bump.  I remember the players saying how much more fun it was to be aggressive and attacking that sitting back and being more passive.

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I still believe to this day that Parcells told woody to hire Badway because he knew how incompetent Badway was, and that it would make him (parcells) look even better after he was gone when Badway destroyed the team. I really think Parcells may be that much of an egomaniac.

 

I agree about Parcells being that egomaniacal and that wouldn't surprise me at all.  

 

It's hard for me to understand, but I've heard of others who were giants in their fields of endeavor say outright that they would not help develop the next young talent coming along,and in fact, would do all they could to hinder that young talent, so that they themselves would continue to look greater and harder to replace.

 

If I were at the top of my field, I'd WANT to mentor young talent, and have it be known that I cared about others and my field of endeavor so much that I helped to keep it strong and successful.  It's sad how petty and self-centered some people can be.

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We have no RBS ( all we are hoping that they are the real thing) no WRS to speak of ( Holmes will be out a while no qb On defense we can't stop run. D line might be good but we have no LBS and no one to rush passer and no safety's !

This is the honest truth abt this team right now !

And with FAS whose avail to sign next year ?

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We have no RBS ( all we are hoping that they are the real thing) no WRS to speak of ( Holmes will be out a while no qb On defense we can't stop run. D line might be good but we have no LBS and no one to rush passer and no safety's !

This is the honest truth abt this team right now !

And with FAS whose avail to sign next year ?

 

Gotta disagree a bit.  While I am nowhere near as optimistic about this team as some fans are, I do think there is reason for optimism.

 

While their carries may have been limited before, both Ivory and Goodson have produced at a pretty high level before.  The questions will be whether Ivory can stay healthy, if Goodson can stay out of jail and hold onto the ball, and whether the Jets can pass the ball effectively enough to prevent opposing Ds from stacking 8 in the box and daring the Jets to pass.

 

Last year many Jets fans said there was no way that Sparano could be as bad as Schotty was.  He was.  That said, I don't think it would be possible for Mornhinweg to be worse than Sparano unless he suffered a total mental collapse or Rex undermined or prevented Mornhinweg from doing what he wanted to do and forced him to do what Rex wanted offensively.  I think with Lee and Mornhinweg working together, Sanchez surely has to show some improvement and if Geno has any true potential at all, it will be developed. Those two will not only know how to take advantage of his strengths, but probably design the offense around those strengths.  Once Geno starts, he will make the WRs and TEs better because of his accuracy.  He will hit them in stride and throw them open.

 

That was last year's team that couldn't stop the run.  Pouha was hurt and ineffective.  Pace, Thomas and Scott were all too slow to get to the RB, and almost as often as not missed if/when they did get to him.  Ellis, Garay, Big Snacks, and Richardson will ALL be more solid up the gut, and Davis covers a whole lot more ground than Pace, Thomas and Scott did.  If either Coples, Sapp or Barnes are manning the two OLB positions, then more stops will be made from the OLB position as well.

 

The pass rush looks to be improved, but until the games start, that's only on paper.  That said, it's hard for me to imagine that Wilkerson, Richardson, Garay, Ellis, Coples, Barnes and possibly Sapp won't generate not only more, but more consistent pressure on opposing QBs.

 

Safety is definitely a question mark.

 

I can't worry now about who will or won't be available in FA, but rest assured there will be some good players available.  There always are.  They may not be at key positions of need, but there will be players who can upgrade some starting positions and depth.

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We have no RBS ( all we are hoping that they are the real thing) no WRS to speak of ( Holmes will be out a while no qb On defense we can't stop run. D line might be good but we have no LBS and no one to rush passer and no safety's !

This is the honest truth abt this team right now !

And with FAS whose avail to sign next year ?

 

 

But if u really look at it we have questions at abt every position which really equals a bad year when it comes to wins and loses I can't see us winning more than 4 games !

Then the real rebuilding will start!'

 

 

Positive Blogger, is that you?

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But if u really look at it we have questions at abt every position which really equals a bad year when it comes to wins and loses I can't see us winning more than 4 games !

Then the real rebuilding will start!'

 

Well then you can double your money & tell us all about it.  The O/U is 6.5 wins on the season.

 

Go put down every penny you have, then max-out on your student loans and bet that, borrow more money from friends & family and bet that, and then sell anything valuable you own that someone's willing to buy and bet that also.  You can only lose if the Jets go 7-9 or better, and you know your pro football.

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I'm a positive fan but I realize a total rebuild is what's going on here! And. That's fine but until I see a franchise qb here will wont win 10 + games in a while

 

I agree, it's a rebuild. I just think we're in a good position to do that. This year you can try to evaluate Geno all you want, tough to do but you have a year to think about it. Next year you're in a position to draft one of the top QB's on the board if Geno didn't work out. The team is younger, deeper and more talented on the lines, which is key.

 

Next year, they're going to need a lot. They will need: at least 1 of the following: TE, WR, S, OLB, OL and possibly an RB and possibly a QB. That's a LOT.

 

But with high draft picks and a ton of cap space, they will be in prime position to upgrade all around the board at the skill positions.

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IMO the reason for optimism on the offense is THROWING THE BALL TO THE BACKS.  I have no idea why they didn't do more of it. I understand not throwing to Greene, but why not the others?  It should be a designed part of the offense.  McKnight is no great back, but most LBs will have big trouble sticking with him. Having more designed passes to the backs should take some pressure off the running game, WRs and QB.

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But if u really look at it we have questions at abt every position which really equals a bad year when it comes to wins and loses I can't see us winning more than 4 games !

Then the real rebuilding will start!'

 

Yes we have questions everywhere, but that doesn't mean that all will be answered negatively.  At the end of last season, I would have probably agreed with you that with Rex back at HC and Sanchez at QB the team wouldn't win more than 4 games this season, but a lot has happened since then, and I no longer think that way.  Maybe it's just a new season and a new Jets board for me, but I'm more optimistic than that.

 

I think that at least on paper, the D has the potential to be one of the best Ds we've seen from the Jets in a long, long time.  It may take a while for the young players to develop and gel, but there's more speed and athleticism in the front 7 than I can remember.  Even if the offense totally sucks balls I think that Rex's D would win us at least 4-5 games.

 

While there ARE a TON of questions regarding the offense, I have some confidence in both Lee and Mornhinweg, as well as their core of RBs, and am very hopeful for Geno.  I think the injury question will be key with the offense.  If tone can't play, if Hill continues to struggle with injuries and dropping the ball, if Colon and/or Winslow get injured and miss significant time, then all bets are off, and they may do well to win 4 games.  I probably will change my mind somewhat following TC and preseason games, but at this point, I think they have the potential to win at least 7, maybe even 8 or 9 games.  

 

Personally, I'd rather see them only win 4 games, yet show a lot of progress and development in their young players, particularly Geno, Ellis and Richardson, and have a top 5 draft pick in 2014.  If MIlliner, Richardson and Winters all pan out and Geno looks like he can be a quality starter at a minimum, regardless of the rest of their draft picks, I could be satisfied with only four wins this season. That would mean there would almost certainly be a dramatic improvement in the team's record next season.  Winning 7-9 games is akin to kissing one's sister.  All that does is screw up draft position and make it harder to get the players you want and need, but at this point, that's what it looks like to me if all the new players just play at an average level and there are no serious injuries.

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We have no RBS ( all we are hoping that they are the real thing) no WRS to speak of ( Holmes will be out a while no qb On defense we can't stop run. D line might be good but we have no LBS and no one to rush passer and no safety's !

This is the honest truth abt this team right now !

And with FAS whose avail to sign next year ?

 

Here are some links:  http://nfltraderumors.co/2014-nfl-free-agents/

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/6/3/4389870/nfl-free-agency-2014-preview-offense-michael-vick-jay-cutler-maurice-jones-drew

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/6/4/4389342/2014-nfl-free-agency-preview-looking-at-the-top-defensive-players

 

(The lists are too long to post)

 

Taking a quick, cursory look, at WR, it looks like the only two really good ones that I see who may be available at Hakeem Nicks and Jeremy Maclin, but I would be surprised if either makes it to FA.  AT OT and TE there are a number of big name players who could be available, but the list isn't very exciting overall.  If that list is accurate, it's typical of our luck that the Jets would have a ton of cap space and there wouldn't be a lot of very good or great players on the list at positions of need.

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