Jets - Giants Game Thread

[Matt39]

I'm reading a Lorenzo Neal argument. Productive Monday morning.

[Larz]

RSJ

 

when you are pumping up the stats of neal and brown, you  need to find a graceful exit strategy.  you got your ass kicked in.  I told you if you wanted to argue parcells was a good GM to knock yourself out.  Sperm did the honors, lol

 

parcells had lots of money to spend, and lots of draft picks.  he made such a mess so fast he basically bailed out and left.

 

here's to idzik being a grown up and building a team the right way.  that will take 2-3 years, but the idea is to be consistently good, like the steelers

 

like I said, it's not his fault you can't read the signs and see what he is doing

[RSJ]

RSJ

 

when you are pumping up the stats of neal and brown, you  need to find a graceful exit strategy.  you got your ass kicked in.  I told you if you wanted to argue parcells was a good GM to knock yourself out.  Sperm did the honors, lol

 

parcells had lots of money to spend, and lots of draft picks.  he made such a mess so fast he basically bailed out and left.

 

here's to idzik being a grown up and building a team the right way.  that will take 2-3 years, but the idea is to be consistently good, like the steelers

 

like I said, it's not his fault you can't read the signs and see what he is doing

 

Who did Parcells spend money on in his first year? The answer is - no one. Thats because he had to get out from under bad contracts from Kotite. The list is above, I also provided a Wiki link providing highlights that included big plays from guys Parcells signed/drafted. This is not the NBA, you dont need to tank it to then be good. Even if you are strapped with cap issues, you can find guys who can contribute and/or start. You dont need to tank it to be good. Infact since there are only so many free agents to sign every year, tanking it is moronic. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by exit strategy? Read the highlights from that year and tell me Brown and Neal didn't contribute.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_New_York_Jets_season

 

Here is the roster with games started

 

Please tell me how Idzik's offseason, spending about the same money was better? Truth is, it was terrible.

 

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/new-york-jets/roster/1997

[RSJ]

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/08/sports/parcells-listening-to-offers-for-no-1.html

 

Parcells Listening To Offers For No. 1

By GERALD ESKENAZI
Published: April 08, 1997

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In his clearest statement about the college draft, Bill Parcells said today that he had not ruled out trading the Jets' No. 1 draft pick.

''I honestly don't know what I'm going to do yet, but I owe it to the franchise to hear people out,'' Parcells said at the Upper Montclair Country Club, where he was officially given his latest extra-curricular job: spokesman for Cadillac.

Parcells would not characterize the nature or the number of offers made for the Jets' pick, but he conceded ''there's been substantially more activity since the Raiders moved up to No. 2.''

He has a variety of choices as he tries to rebuild a 1-15 franchise. Tuesday will be a busy day for the Jets. Three high-profile players are planning to visit -- Ohio State offensive tackle Orlando Pace, Buckeyes cornerback Shawn Springs and Darrell Russell, the Southern California defensive tackle.

Parcells, as usual, was at the Jets' camp in Hempstead, L.I., at 6:30 this morning. He said that 98 percent of the players had been attending the voluntary off-season workout program. He will be moving Tuesday into an apartment near the Jets camp.

 

He described a hectic existence since taking over the team. He has commuted from his home on the Jersey Shore, arriving at the club's complex before 7 A.M. And he has wrestled not mainly with the draft, but with a more mundane issue.

''Most of my time has been spent with salary-cap stuff,'' he said. ''We were in pretty dire straits. A few weeks ago, we couldn't even draft players. We were over the cap with our first 39 players.''

Since the Jets have more than 50 players under contract, it was critical to renegotiate many of last year's deals or release higher-priced players. The contracts of linebacker Mo Lewis and wide receiver Jeff Graham were restructured and kicker Nick Lowery was waived. In addition, quarterback Neil O'Donnell said today he had agreed to redo his contract.

When O'Donnell signed the $25 million, five-year deal last year, it was the fourth-highest in league history.

''We're almost done,'' O'Donnell said. ''We've restructured and put it at the back end.'' He added that there was no signing bonus, but that it was laced with incentives.

Another key player who will renegotiate his contract is tackle Jumbo Elliott.

''People expect you to improve your team,'' Parcells said, ''but you can't even start when you have cap problems like that.''

Still, Parcells would not fault the prior regime for the salary-cap woes he inherited. O'Donnell's salary and pro-rated bonus this year would have accounted for $4.6 million -- about 11 percent of the Jets' total salary cap.

''Last year their heart was in the right place,'' Parcells said, ''and they tried to make a winner. Now we've got to take a course of action to win now.''

EXTRA POINTS

DAVE BROWN, who will appear in next month's Cadillac NFL golf tournament, said the Giants were eager to please their new coach, JIM FASSEL. ''They've made it comfortable for us,'' he said of the coaching staff. ''They've got bagels in the morning, and they've put couches there. On the first day, players were there 45 minutes early.'' His relationship with Fassel? Brown characterized his new coach as ''enthusiastically stern.''

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[RSJ]

Again, just because Sperm has a lot of time to write diatribes doesnt mean what he is saying is true.

[JoeKlecko]

Yes, MINOR.

 

James Farrior

 

Leon Johnson

 

John Hall

 

Corwin Brown

 

Lorenzo Neal

 

Otis Smith (played for Kotite too I know)

 

Ray Lucas

 

Dedric Ward

 

 

Farrior was not instrumental in the club's 1997 success, or certainly Parcells felt that way, and that's why he got benched.  He may have been on the field, but as a rookie he was not a reason for the team's improvement.  He was as instrumental in the team's success as Lito Sheppard was instrumental in the 2009 team's success.

 

Leon Johnson was a backup, not a starter.

 

John Hall was a kicker who shanked one from inside 30 yards, only made 11 of 17 from 30-39 yards, and was 2 of 6 from 40-49.  I'd say it's a given that everyone assumes <30 yards that a kicker is expected to make every single one of them (unless it's a bad snap or something beyond his control).  The "main" range where kickers are generally judged to be reliable or unreliable, 30-49 yards, he was 13 of 23 (56%).  If that's an asset, then what is a liability? Hall was not a starter, and again was not instrumental in the team winning an additional 8 games.  He probably made it more difficult if anything.

 

Corwin Brown was a special teams player, not a starter.  We did not win a single extra game because of the presence of Corwin Brown.  Sorry.

 

Lorenzo Neal was not part of the base offense, as he only started 3 games.  We already had Richie Anderson, a future pro bowler, but Parcells wanted to bring in his own throwback guy (who he felt was so important to the team's success that he let Neal go after only 1 season).

 

Otis Smith? Big whoop.  Otis was no great CB and despite getting a bunch of picks - the guy had great hands for a corner - he could be a huge liability in coverage.

 

Ray Lucas was not a starter.  I don't know where you're getting your information from.  In 1997 he threw 4 passes.  One of them was intercepted.

 

Dedric Ward was not a starter.  He was 4th or 5th string as a rookie.  He played in 11 games, caught a whopping 18 passes on the season, and had as many fumbles (1) as he had TDs (1).

 

 

5 starters? I count two, Farrior and Otis.  

 

 

You really can't count 1 new starter Idzik brought in or are you just purposely being argumentative?

 

Dee Milliner

Sheldon Richardson

Brian Winters (he'll likely start soon enough this year) or Peterman.  But whever starts at each guard position.

Willie Colon

Chris Ivory

Tommy Bohanon

Dawan Landry

 

So I count 7 immediate starters on day 1, not including Geno Smith who will likely start games at some point (or Simms if he miraculously gets the starting job), and not counting anyone else brought in during the season or if anyone eventually works their way up to a starting job (in August I don't have the benefit of hindsight that you have by looking at the '97 season some 16 years later).  4 of them are drafted rookies.  A 5th one was acquired for another draft pick.  Two others are experienced starters that we got for next to nothing (Colon and Landry) because we weren't going to do a tremendous amount of long-term big-money investing before the draft.  I'm not counting placekicker (though whether it ends up being Folk or Cundiff, they were both free agents signed to new contracts this season).  

 

Of course you're right, but you're wasting your time and energy.  He's not gonna get it, because he doesn't want to.  It doesn't fit his agenda.   His mind is closed tighter than (insert your favorite metaphor).  If he wants to be an ignorant tool let him be.

[Bleedin Green]

We will see at the end of the season for a lot of these guys. Powell looks better then Ivory and will most likely start over him, Winters wont beat out Vlad, Walls or Wilson may start over Milliner, Milliner has looked horrible and will probably cancel out Farrior. Bohanan looks ok, Richardson was for Revis, not sure we can count that since Parcells didnt have 2 first rounders. Colon looks good, and Landry. So I count two starters. BTW, 2, probably soon to be 3 of Idzik's biggest signings won't play a down for the Jets this season.

 

Now lets look at Parcells list of starters, legit starters btw.

 

John Hall - K

Leon Johnson - KR

Jason Fergeson - NT

Pepper Johnson - MLB/Dwayne Gordan ILB - started 8 games a piece

Otis Smith - CB

Jerome Henderson - FS

Rick Lyle - DE

Ernie Logan - DE

 

Started less then 8 games - but contributed to Jets victories in 1997.

Ray Lucas

Corwin Brown 2 blocked kicks for TD's

Lorenzo Neal (mostly because we opened in 3 wide in Erharts offense)

Kerry Jenkins

Dedric Ward

James Farrior

 

8 starters of 8 games or more and 6 guys that contributed to victories - but had less then 8 starts. Lets revisit Idzik's list after the season to see if he can match it. I come up with 2, maybe 3 if Ivory stays healthy and learns how to run,. Btw, will Idzik go 9-7?

 

Your list of supposedly "legit starters" begins with a kicker and a kick returner.  Seriously?  I'm not involved with this argument, but do you realize you seem to be doing more to disprove your own position than support it with things like that?  By definition, those positions are not starting positions.

 

Although, as you alluded to in this post, trying to now tout the contributions of backups has no point of comparison before the season even begins.  You can make a similar list for any season of any team in the NFL, no matter how good or bad the team was.  I have no doubt that even if the Jets go 0-16 we could all whip up a similar list for this team when all is said and done.  It's simply the way the NFL works.

[RSJ]

Of course you're right, but you're wasting your time and energy.  He's not gonna get it, because he doesn't want to.  It doesn't fit his agenda.   His mind is closed tighter than (insert your favorite metaphor).  If he wants to be an ignorant tool let him be.

 

Agenda? lol We both want the same thing dude. I happen to think the Jets are going about it the wrong way and that Idzik was a terrible hire, thats all. No agenda here, just stating the facts.

[RSJ]

Your list of supposedly "legit starters" begins with a kicker and a kick returner.  Seriously?  I'm not involved with this argument, but do you realize you seem to be doing more to disprove your own position than support it with things like that?  By definition, those positions are not starting positions.

 

Although, as you alluded to in this post, trying to now tout the contributions of backups has no point of comparison before the season even begins.  You can make a similar list for any season of any team in the NFL, no matter how good or bad the team was.  I have no doubt that even if the Jets go 0-16 we could all whip up a similar list for this team when all is said and done.  It's simply the way the NFL works.

 

I wish there was a legit kick returner on this team right now.

 

My original point to this whole discussion was that Parcells took over a 1-15 cap strapped team and went 9-7. Sperm said that Parcells had no cap issues and didnt add anyone of significance that year. My point is that Idzik added less players that will contribute. You are right, we will have to wait until the end of the season to fully compare - but the fact remains 2 (Gerard and Peterman), soon to be 3 (Goodson) of Idzik's signings won't see the field this year at all.

[JoeKlecko]

Agenda? lol We both want the same thing dude. I happen to think the Jets are going about it the wrong way and that Idzik was a terrible hire, thats all. No agenda here, just stating the facts.

 

Idzik may prove to have been a horrible hire, but it's Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to determine that. Rookie players are allowed mistakes and rookie HCs are allowed mistakes, why aren't rookie GMs?  I'm on record as saying that I never wanted Idzik as GM.  I'd never heard of him before. I wanted someone with a lot of scouting and personnel experience preferably from GB, the Steelers, the Ravens or the Niners.  I think Idzik has gone about cleaning up the mess Tranny left in the right way.  Some of his moves haven't worked out, but as the old saying goes, he was trying to make chicken soup out of chicken sheit.  He didn't have a lot of cap space and there weren't a lot of good, cheap veterans available.  He had a HC forced upon him.  Why not see how Colon, Winslow, Milliner, and Winters pan out before trashing him?  Colon and Winslow are proven players and have looked good.  The only question with them is if they can stay healthy.  With regard to the drafted players, one usually can't accurately asses a draft until 3 years later unless they all bust immediately.  No one has busted yet.  Yes, it would have been great if every one of the draft picks had immediately come in, played great, beat out their competition and showed us they were all gonna be solid starters and productive players, but that isn't reality.  Aboushi probably looks the worst of any of the draft picks, but it's even too soon to declare him a bust.  Even if he does bust, if the others turn out to be productive contributors, then it was a good draft.  Richardson looks like he's gonna be a stud already.  Milliner has a ton of talent and played at the highest level in college. He's had some injury issues.  He undoubtedly will have some rookie struggles, but I expect him to develop into at least a solid starting CB if not a very good one.

 

It's ok to question Idzik, but to try to use Parcells work as a GM to prove your point is just laughable.  Even Parcells admits he didn't do a good job shopping for groceries and that it's harder than he thought.

[Bleedin Green]

Agenda? lol We both want the same thing dude. I happen to think the Jets are going about it the wrong way and that Idzik was a terrible hire, thats all. No agenda here, just stating the facts.

 

[Larz]

Who did Parcells spend money on in his first year? The answer is - no one. Thats because he had to get out from under bad contracts from Kotite. The list is above, I also provided a Wiki link providing highlights that included big plays from guys Parcells signed/drafted. This is not the NBA, you dont need to tank it to then be good. Even if you are strapped with cap issues, you can find guys who can contribute and/or start. You dont need to tank it to be good. Infact since there are only so many free agents to sign every year, tanking it is moronic. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by exit strategy? Read the highlights from that year and tell me Brown and Neal didn't contribute.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_New_York_Jets_season

 

Here is the roster with games started

 

Please tell me how Idzik's offseason, spending about the same money was better? Truth is, it was terrible.

 

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/new-york-jets/roster/1997

 

 

were you expecting playoffs this year ?  is that the problem ?

[T0mShane]

he made such a mess so fast he basically bailed out and left.

Yeah, he left such a messy roster that it provided the core of a team that Herm Edwards was still relying upon six years after Parcells was gone. But ok.

[Larz]

Yeah, he left such a messy roster that it provided the core of a team that Herm Edwards was still relying upon six years after Parcells was gone. But ok.

 

 

cap mess I should say.  he did it to the pats and boys and miami

 

its his thing

 

run up the credit card, get some wins, leave town before the bill comes

[T0mShane]

cap mess I should say. he did it to the pats and boys and miami

its his thing

run up the credit card, get some wins, leave town before the bill comes

Teams that get good then have to pay their newly-found good players. It gets expensive.

[Larz]

Teams that get good then have to pay their newly-found good players. It gets expensive.

 

 

nah.  you can manage the bills if you think you'll be around to have to pay them.  he knows he's not going to have to go through the pain of cutting guys to get under the cap and having dead money kill you

 

its a deal with the devil.

 

the returns got worse every stop.  the pats made it to the SB but lost

the jets made it to the AFCCG but lost

the boys made the playoffs but lost in the WC I think

the dolphins did the same I think

 

I really favor the idzik grown up way.  build through the draft and sprinkle in FA's.  cut the fan favorite who can't run.  cut the draft picks who don't produce.  cut your own FA signings if they get the QB killed.  trade the star DB who wants to be paid like a star DE

 

it will take 2 years, but the jets should conveniently be consistently good when brady buys a 5 mile beach in brazil and retires

[Sperm Edwards]

Who did Parcells spend money on in his first year? The answer is - no one. Thats because he had to get out from under bad contracts from Kotite. The list is above, I also provided a Wiki link providing highlights that included big plays from guys Parcells signed/drafted. This is not the NBA, you dont need to tank it to then be good. Even if you are strapped with cap issues, you can find guys who can contribute and/or start. You dont need to tank it to be good. Infact since there are only so many free agents to sign every year, tanking it is moronic. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by exit strategy? Read the highlights from that year and tell me Brown and Neal didn't contribute.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_New_York_Jets_season

 

Here is the roster with games started

 

Please tell me how Idzik's offseason, spending about the same money was better? Truth is, it was terrible.

 

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/new-york-jets/roster/1997

 

Nonsense.  

 

Parcells got production out of the overpriced players he inherited.  Idzik is not getting production out of the overpriced players he inherited.

 

Parcells had nowhere near 50% of his salary cap tied up in the equivalent of Sanchez + Holmes + Harris + dead space.

 

And he did have cap room.  What he is describing in your reprinted article is the cap situation on day 1. Well LOTS of teams are over the cap on day 1 every single season.  It's easy to get under as they were planned events for the most part and a lot of it is fluff.  A little minor shuffling and we were instantly under the cap by plenty.  But the way he puts it makes it look like we were in dire straits.  Meanwhile he already had most of the team he fielded in '97 UNDER CONTRACT.  Idzik did not.  We are replacing like half the team.  It is totally and completely different.

 

Despite your claim that Tuna had no space, he did.  He extended Aaron Glenn in 1997 to a new deal that is today's equivalent of $12M/year (it was a $4M/year deal back when the cap limit was $41M). At the time, Glenn was not a free agent and (unlike Revis) could have been tagged the following season.  He did this after free agency was over, so it was not done as part of a cap-saving move.  Again, you're boasting supposed claims as though they were facts because it suits a narrative you want to be true.  But that doesn't make it true.  

 

Plus the equivalence of the '97 Jets being locked into O'Donnell for 1 more year and the '13 Jets being locked into Sanchez for 1 more year is ludicrous.  O'Donnell was a legitimate starting QB and Sanchez is a waste of roster space whose only goal this year was to take beatings until Geno Smith practiced some more.  He had above-average players all over the place heading into '97.  

 

Parcells would never have taken the 2013 Jets GM job.  Never.  It was not an instantly-fixable situation so he wouldn't have looked like the great savior/genius where he could spend a ton and then skip out of town before the cap hit bills came due.  

 

Again, just because Sperm has a lot of time to write diatribes doesnt mean what he is saying is true.

 

I gave you endless opportunities, which I'm still giving you, to refute one single thing I've stated about past events.  You keep suggesting things are untrue but you have failed to list a single thing.  Meanwhile, your posts were loaded with untrue events that never happened.

 

Parcells was a fine coach.  His coaching staff was the best I've seen.  And they took over for one of the worst ones.  But that's coaching not GM'ing.  His first year on the job as a GM in terms of player acquisition, he failed and the Jets were not so significantly better in 1997 purely because of his GM'ing skills.  Quite the contrary.

[RSJ]

Nonsense.  

 

Parcells got production out of the overpriced players he inherited.  Idzik is not getting production out of the overpriced players he inherited.

 

Parcells had nowhere near 50% of his salary cap tied up in the equivalent of Sanchez + Holmes + Harris + dead space.

 

And he did have cap room.  What he is describing in your reprinted article is the cap situation on day 1. Well LOTS of teams are over the cap on day 1 every single season.  It's easy to get under as they were planned events for the most part and a lot of it is fluff.  A little minor shuffling and we were instantly under the cap by plenty.  But the way he puts it makes it look like we were in dire straits.  Meanwhile he already had most of the team he fielded in '97 UNDER CONTRACT.  Idzik did not.  We are replacing like half the team.  It is totally and completely different.

 

Despite your claim that Tuna had no space, he did.  He extended Aaron Glenn in 1997 to a new deal that is today's equivalent of $12M/year (it was a $4M/year deal back when the cap limit was $41M). At the time, Glenn was not a free agent and (unlike Revis) could have been tagged the following season.  He did this after free agency was over, so it was not done as part of a cap-saving move.  Again, you're boasting supposed claims as though they were facts because it suits a narrative you want to be true.  But that doesn't make it true.  

 

Plus the equivalence of the '97 Jets being locked into O'Donnell for 1 more year and the '13 Jets being locked into Sanchez for 1 more year is ludicrous.  O'Donnell was a legitimate starting QB and Sanchez is a waste of roster space whose only goal this year was to take beatings until Geno Smith practiced some more.  He had above-average players all over the place heading into '97.  

 

Parcells would never have taken the 2013 Jets GM job.  Never.  It was not an instantly-fixable situation so he wouldn't have looked like the great savior/genius where he could spend a ton and then skip out of town before the cap hit bills came due.  

 

 

I gave you endless opportunities, which I'm still giving you, to refute one single thing I've stated about past events.  You keep suggesting things are untrue but you have failed to list a single thing.  Meanwhile, your posts were loaded with untrue events that never happened.

 

Parcells was a fine coach.  His coaching staff was the best I've seen.  And they took over for one of the worst ones.  But that's coaching not GM'ing.  His first year on the job as a GM in terms of player acquisition, he failed and the Jets were not so significantly better in 1997 purely because of his GM'ing skills.  Quite the contrary.

 

Did you not read the article I posted earlier? The Jets cap situation was WORSE in 1997. They had 39 players under contract and were still OVER the cap. I guess facts are irrelevant to you. Idzik didn't have most of the team he was going to field under contract? lol ok. Talk to you after the season when most of the players you listed were proven to also be bad signings. In the meantime, enjoy your New York Seahawks.

[RSJ]

nah.  you can manage the bills if you think you'll be around to have to pay them.  he knows he's not going to have to go through the pain of cutting guys to get under the cap and having dead money kill you

 

its a deal with the devil.

 

the returns got worse every stop.  the pats made it to the SB but lost

the jets made it to the AFCCG but lost

the boys made the playoffs but lost in the WC I think

the dolphins did the same I think

 

I really favor the idzik grown up way.  build through the draft and sprinkle in FA's.  cut the fan favorite who can't run.  cut the draft picks who don't produce.  cut your own FA signings if they get the QB killed.  trade the star DB who wants to be paid like a star DE

 

it will take 2 years, but the jets should conveniently be consistently good when brady buys a 5 mile beach in brazil and retires

 

You do know that when Parcells left he had just drafted 4 guys in the first round, right? And the third rounder wasnt that bad either. True that there were some aging guys with big contracts - but Parcells left plenty of young talent. Good teams have a mix of free agents and draft picks that pan out, what they dont have is free agents that never play a down of football for a team.

[Sperm Edwards]

Did you not read the article I posted earlier? The Jets cap situation was WORSE in 1997. They had 39 players under contract and were still OVER the cap. I guess facts are irrelevant to you. Idzik didn't have most of the team he was going to field under contract? lol ok. Talk to you after the season when most of the players you listed were proven to also be bad signings. In the meantime, enjoy your New York Seahawks.

 

Every year teams have dead weight that they can cut and get under the cap in a hurry.  Idzik had it also.

 

But no Idzik did not have anywhere near 75% of his starters under contract (or under contracts that could have fit under the cap).  Half his starters were either free agents or were so overpriced they needed to be cut to get us under.  Or they could have been extended even further, in case you wanted to extend David Harris to bring his fully guaranteed cap hit of $13M down.  But he actually did move a lot of money to next year for Cromartie, and we'll see how that pans out.  If you were paying attention this spring, you would have realized this as it was discussed extensively.  

 

Parcells had nothing like that to deal with.  Further, the 75% of his team that was returning was just flat-out better than the 50% of the Jets team that was returning.  

 

Parcells inherited a team with a starting QB, a backup QB, a starting RB, three starter-quality WRs, two TEs, 4 starting offensive linemen, a fullback, a couple of defensive linemen, two linebackers, two starting CBs, and two safeties.

 

Idzik inherited holes at QB, backup QB, starting RB, FB, TE (just had Cumberland), 3 OL positions (Ferguson/Mangold were the only starters under contract), 1 healthy+competent starting-ish WR (he had one slot receiver), 3 DLmen (two would be first-year starters), 2 linebackers (one sucky, the other would be a first-year starter), 1 great CB, 1 crappy CB, another CB who needed to be dealt, no safeties, and one Tim Tebow.

 

 

Go ahead and tell everyone here that those two situations are remotely similar.

[RSJ]

Every year teams have dead weight that they can cut and get under the cap in a hurry.  Idzik had it also.

 

But no Idzik did not have anywhere near 75% of his starters under contract (or under contracts that could have fit under the cap).  Half his starters were either free agents or were so overpriced they needed to be cut to get us under.  Or they could have been extended even further, in case you wanted to extend David Harris to bring his fully guaranteed cap hit of $13M down.  But he actually did move a lot of money to next year for Cromartie, and we'll see how that pans out.  If you were paying attention this spring, you would have realized this as it was discussed extensively.  

 

Parcells had nothing like that to deal with.  Further, the 75% of his team that was returning was just flat-out better than the 50% of the Jets team that was returning.  

 

Parcells inherited a team with a starting QB, a backup QB, a starting RB, three starter-quality WRs, two TEs, 4 starting offensive linemen, a fullback, a couple of defensive linemen, two linebackers, two starting CBs, and two safeties.

 

Idzik inherited holes at QB, backup QB, starting RB, FB, TE (just had Cumberland), 3 OL positions (Ferguson/Mangold were the only starters under contract), 1 healthy+competent starting-ish WR (he had one slot receiver), 3 DLmen (two would be first-year starters), 2 linebackers (one sucky, the other would be a first-year starter), 1 great CB, 1 crappy CB, another CB who needed to be dealt, no safeties, and one Tim Tebow.

 

 

Go ahead and tell everyone here that those two situations are remotely similar.

 

I dont understand. Idzik gets credit for having to replace Sanchez - but Parcells doesnt get credit for needing to replace O'Donnell? How are you figuring these numbers out?

[Sperm Edwards]

I dont understand. Idzik gets credit for having to replace Sanchez - but Parcells doesnt get credit for needing to replace O'Donnell? How are you figuring these numbers out?

 

Hang on.  You think '13 Sanchez and '97 O'Donnell are equal QBs?

[RSJ]

Hang on.  You think '13 Sanchez and '97 O'Donnell are equal QBs?

 

Pretty much.